Lou's Learning? Fukudome to bat 2nd

[JGalt73]

It is very early, but here's hoping Fukudome gets hot and convinces Lou that he's "most comfortable" hitting 2nd...

 

Cubs.com[/url]"]PEORIA, Ariz. -- Kosuke Fukudome has one hit in seven at-bats so far this spring, and Cubs manager Lou Piniella said Monday he may consider moving the outfielder from the No. 3 spot in the lineup to bat second.

 

"We need for him to swing it," Piniella said. "I might drop him back down to the two-spot and see what happens."

 

On Monday, against the Seattle Mariners, Fukudome reached on a fielder's choice, was hit by a pitch and grounded out to second, advancing a runner.

 

Asked if he had talked to Fukudome about his approach, Piniella said no.

 

"We never talked to Ichiro [suzuki] here about approach, and Ichiro has done quite well," Piniella said. "He knows what he needs to do. Maybe the three-hole might be asking a little much too soon. We might drop him to the two-hole, and he might be more comfortable there."

[anabiono]

YAY!

[CubColtPacer]

I think this shows how little stock Lou puts into the 2 spot. He's worried about Fukudome, so he wants to move him to 2nd which he sees as a low pressure position. It may end up being the best thing for the Cubs, but Lou has repeatedly shown that he'll stick people in the 2 spot who don't seem to fit anywhere else in that day's lineup, no matter what type of hitter they are. From 3 on down, the hitters are then usually organized in order of ability.

[Sammy Sofa]

Kosuke at #3 never made much sense to me. Even if hits near or at his ideal projections, those powers estimates don't really jive with the #3 slot.

[rawaction]

Again, sounds like a case of a good end, despite the ridiculous means. He's not thinking of hitting him #2, because he gets on base a ton, but because he hasn't hit. That's how you end up with players like Corey Patterson hitting 2nd. "Well, since he's not hitting, might as well throw him in front of the team's best hitters hoping he sees better pitches to hit". Most MLB managers don't realize that a guy who can't hit won't get certain pitches, just because of his protection in the lineup. If a guy will get himself out on a head high fastball every time. You don't throw him a knee high fastball because Derrek Lee is next. You thank the opposing manager for giving you a break before you have to face the middle of the order and promptly throw 3 head high fastballs.

[TruffleShuffle]

i like how the guy has had 7 ABs (plus a few walks and a couple of HBP) and this has sold lou on the fact that maybe kosuke is not cut out to be a #3 hitter. this is spring training. lou is like a little kid with ADD.

[Roast]

i like how the guy has had 7 ABs (plus a few walks and a couple of HBP) and this has sold lou on the fact that maybe kosuke is not cut out to be a #3 hitter. this is spring training. lou is like a little kid with ADD.

I was just coming to post this. He decided that Theriot was good enough to start after a couple games last year and this year Kosuke shows he's 'incapable' (by putting up a monstrous OBP) in just a few ABs? Wow.

[frostwyrm]

I'll never understand how the 2 hole got such a low status in the minds of old school managers. 2 and 8 hitters are interchangeable to people like Lou. Dusty had Neifi and Cesar Izturis batting 2nd.

[biittner77]

I'll never understand how the 2 hole got such a low status in the minds of old school managers. 2 and 8 hitters are interchangeable to people like Lou. Dusty had Neifi and Cesar Izturis batting 2nd.

 

I think it started with Tommy Herr and the 80s Cards teams.

[17 Seconds]

If Fukudome bats 2nd, this lineup is going to be crazy top heavy.

[TruffleShuffle]

I'll never understand how the 2 hole got such a low status in the minds of old school managers. 2 and 8 hitters are interchangeable to people like Lou. Dusty had Neifi and Cesar Izturis batting 2nd.

 

I think it started with Tommy Herr and the 80s Cards teams.

 

wasn't it usually spelled tommie herr?

 

anyway, he's not really a good comparison. in the prime of his career he was a solid hitter with good on-base ability. he was a lot better in that spot than, say, ozzie smith or terry pendleton.

[WilcoFan]

i like how the guy has had 7 ABs (plus a few walks and a couple of HBP) and this has sold lou on the fact that maybe kosuke is not cut out to be a #3 hitter. this is spring training. lou is like a little kid with ADD.

 

I think this is kinda ridiculous. You wrote it yourself-this is Spring Training. The whole point, especially with players a manager has never seen before, is to try various things out and see if they work. Piniella said himself: "I might drop him back down to the two-spot and see what happens." It sounds like he's tinkering with things to see what works best. The last time I checked, that's the point of practice games.

 

Why not? I'd much rather have a manager who tries things (ESPECIALLY in Spring Training) to see what might work best over a manager who is so wedded to his stupid philosophies that he refuses to try anything new.

 

I think his quote here is telling: "Maybe the three-hole might be asking a little much too soon. We might drop him to the two-hole, and he might be more comfortable there." I don't think this has anything to do with "protection," or anything else we flippantly label "old school." I think it has more to do with the fact that Piniella probably believes that Fukudome is trying to drive the ball too much, thus expanding his strike zone, instead of remaining patient and trying to simply get on base. Putting him in the #2 hole might be a way to allow Fukudome to re-establish those facets that make him a good hitter.

 

 

Most importantly, however, I think an Allen Iverson quote is probably the most important to remember for some perspective here.

 

Practice? You're talking about Practice... Not the games. Practice...

[questionmarkgrace]

I think the whole point was to let fukudome hit third out of respect. Or avoid a situation of misinterpreted disrespect. In any case 7 ab's isnt long enough to tell if he's a 3 hitter or nine.

[TruffleShuffle]

I think the whole point was to let fukudome hit third out of respect. Or avoid a situation of misinterpreted disrespect. In any case 7 ab's isnt long enough to tell if he's a 3 hitter or nine.

 

respect? take your shoes off inside his house if you're worried about disrespecting him. hit him wherever you think he'll be best in the lineup.

[Clem Fandango]

If Fukudome bats 2nd, this lineup is going to be crazy top heavy.

 

I ouldn't neccesarily say that. The bottom half could be decent, assuming a proper lineup of...

 

Soriano

Fukudome

Lee

Ramirez

DeRosa

Soto

Pie/Theriot

Teriot/Pie

 

The bottom half ain't too shabby for a bottom half. DeRosa's got good OBP skills, Soto has massive potential to be very productive, and Pie has unfilled potential to perform as well. Theriot, well. Meh.

 

I don't think the lineup is all that bad top to bottom

[Geech]

In any case 7 ab's isnt long enough to tell if he's a 3 hitter or nine.

 

No, these are spring training at bats. They count more.

[TruffleShuffle]

If Fukudome bats 2nd, this lineup is going to be crazy top heavy.

 

I ouldn't neccesarily say that. The bottom half could be decent, assuming a proper lineup of...

 

Soriano - 299/337/560

Fukudome - 289/401/504

Lee - 303/387/527

Ramirez - 301/363/536

DeRosa - 286/360/439

Soto - 273/352/470

Pie - 291/344/479

Theriot - 270/330/347

 

with pecota projections added. doesn't look too top heavy, though the four best SLGs are at the top. but i suspect that some of the projections - soto, pie, fukudome especially - are overly generous.

[SouthSideCubsFan83]

I agree with Lou on this, and hopefully he will stick with him batting in the 2-hole...A guy projected to hit about 15 homers should not be batting third. Fukudome has proven (in Japan at least) that hes a patient hitter w/ a career .397 OBP and would fit well at the top of the lineup.

 

This move would look even better w/, dare i say, Brian Roberts leading off followed by Fukudome as the table setters, then giving more RBI opportunities for Lee, ARam, and Soriano. With Soriano hitting 5th, the lineup wont look as "top heavy."

 

And what i said about a guy projected to hit about 15 homers shouldnt hit 3rd in the lineup, yet our guy that hits first is a 35-45 home run a year type, so what the hell do I know.

[Beer Kaese]

i like how the guy has had 7 ABs (plus a few walks and a couple of HBP) and this has sold lou on the fact that maybe kosuke is not cut out to be a #3 hitter. this is spring training. lou is like a little kid with ADD.

 

I think this is kinda ridiculous. You wrote it yourself-this is Spring Training. The whole point, especially with players a manager has never seen before, is to try various things out and see if they work. Piniella said himself: "I might drop him back down to the two-spot and see what happens." It sounds like he's tinkering with things to see what works best. The last time I checked, that's the point of practice games.

 

Why not? I'd much rather have a manager who tries things (ESPECIALLY in Spring Training) to see what might work best over a manager who is so wedded to his stupid philosophies that he refuses to try anything new.

 

I think his quote here is telling: "Maybe the three-hole might be asking a little much too soon. We might drop him to the two-hole, and he might be more comfortable there." I don't think this has anything to do with "protection," or anything else we flippantly label "old school." I think it has more to do with the fact that Piniella probably believes that Fukudome is trying to drive the ball too much, thus expanding his strike zone, instead of remaining patient and trying to simply get on base. Putting him in the #2 hole might be a way to allow Fukudome to re-establish those facets that make him a good hitter.

 

 

Most importantly, however, I think an Allen Iverson quote is probably the most important to remember for some perspective here.

 

Practice? You're talking about Practice... Not the games. Practice...

 

Back at the convention Lou talked about hitting Fukudone 2, 3 and 5. When pressed he came up with this lineup:

 

2007/2008

Soriano/Soriano

Theriot/Theriot

Lee/Lee

Ramirez/Ramirez

Floyd/Fukudome

DeRosa/DeRosa

Soto/Soto

Jones/Pie

 

You have to wonder, when put on the spot in January, how Lou could come up with such a lineup.

 

In a couple weeks the extra players, fodder for a 9 inning game, are pushed out and we get our first real look at what the team might look like.

[CuseCubFan69]

i like how the guy has had 7 ABs (plus a few walks and a couple of HBP) and this has sold lou on the fact that maybe kosuke is not cut out to be a #3 hitter. this is spring training. lou is like a little kid with ADD.

 

I think this is kinda ridiculous. You wrote it yourself-this is Spring Training. The whole point, especially with players a manager has never seen before, is to try various things out and see if they work. Piniella said himself: "I might drop him back down to the two-spot and see what happens." It sounds like he's tinkering with things to see what works best. The last time I checked, that's the point of practice games.

 

Why not? I'd much rather have a manager who tries things (ESPECIALLY in Spring Training) to see what might work best over a manager who is so wedded to his stupid philosophies that he refuses to try anything new.

 

I think his quote here is telling: "Maybe the three-hole might be asking a little much too soon. We might drop him to the two-hole, and he might be more comfortable there." I don't think this has anything to do with "protection," or anything else we flippantly label "old school." I think it has more to do with the fact that Piniella probably believes that Fukudome is trying to drive the ball too much, thus expanding his strike zone, instead of remaining patient and trying to simply get on base. Putting him in the #2 hole might be a way to allow Fukudome to re-establish those facets that make him a good hitter.

 

 

Most importantly, however, I think an Allen Iverson quote is probably the most important to remember for some perspective here.

 

Practice? You're talking about Practice... Not the games. Practice...

 

You can never go wrong quoting Iverson.

 

It's spring and you're right, it's time to explore. Lou knows enough about baseball and hitting to realize where to place Fukudome and this would drop Theriot down which I would think makes a lot of people happy...not as happy as just dropping the Riot but happy.

[CubColtPacer]

The normal lineup doesn't look that top heavy. When Ramirez or Soto take days off, it's going to be pretty badly top heavy though. Look at this potential lineup that has the potential to happen twice a week:

 

Soriano

Fukudome

Lee

Ramirez

DeRosa

Pie

Theriot

Blanco

Pitcher

 

On those days, it might make more sense to move Pie or Theriot up to 2nd and Fukudome down to 5th.

[abuck1220]

who was it that kept making posts about how important respect is to japanese players? like they're samauris or something.

[RynoRules]

I'll never understand how the 2 hole got such a low status in the minds of old school managers. 2 and 8 hitters are interchangeable to people like Lou. Dusty had Neifi and Cesar Izturis batting 2nd.

 

Not sure that is fair. My namesake hit in the two hole for the majority of his career. Jeter hits or did hit in the two hole quite often, IIRC. LaRussa had Larry Walker hitting in the two hole for a couple of years. I am sure there are more that I am missing.

[jersey cubs fan]

i like how the guy has had 7 ABs (plus a few walks and a couple of HBP) and this has sold lou on the fact that maybe kosuke is not cut out to be a #3 hitter. this is spring training. lou is like a little kid with ADD.

 

I think this is kinda ridiculous. You wrote it yourself-this is Spring Training. The whole point, especially with players a manager has never seen before, is to try various things out and see if they work. Piniella said himself: "I might drop him back down to the two-spot and see what happens." It sounds like he's tinkering with things to see what works best. The last time I checked, that's the point of practice games.

 

Why not? I'd much rather have a manager who tries things (ESPECIALLY in Spring Training) to see what might work best over a manager who is so wedded to his stupid philosophies that he refuses to try anything new.

 

I think his quote here is telling: "Maybe the three-hole might be asking a little much too soon. We might drop him to the two-hole, and he might be more comfortable there." I don't think this has anything to do with "protection," or anything else we flippantly label "old school." I think it has more to do with the fact that Piniella probably believes that Fukudome is trying to drive the ball too much, thus expanding his strike zone, instead of remaining patient and trying to simply get on base. Putting him in the #2 hole might be a way to allow Fukudome to re-establish those facets that make him a good hitter.

 

 

Most importantly, however, I think an Allen Iverson quote is probably the most important to remember for some perspective here.

 

Practice? You're talking about Practice... Not the games. Practice...

 

That's all well and good, except for the fact that he apparantly tried the 3 spot for all of 7 AB and was able to determine that Fukudome in the 3 spot didn't work.

 

Spring training should not be about trying things. Spring training should be about getting in game shape. If you want to throw guys into different defensive positions, just to get them some experience, fine, but spring training is a horrible place to "see if things work". Nothing that happens in spring training should determine who plays, and where people hit, in the regular season - with the exception of injuries or trades.

[CuseCubFan69]

i like how the guy has had 7 ABs (plus a few walks and a couple of HBP) and this has sold lou on the fact that maybe kosuke is not cut out to be a #3 hitter. this is spring training. lou is like a little kid with ADD.

 

I think this is kinda ridiculous. You wrote it yourself-this is Spring Training. The whole point, especially with players a manager has never seen before, is to try various things out and see if they work. Piniella said himself: "I might drop him back down to the two-spot and see what happens." It sounds like he's tinkering with things to see what works best. The last time I checked, that's the point of practice games.

 

Why not? I'd much rather have a manager who tries things (ESPECIALLY in Spring Training) to see what might work best over a manager who is so wedded to his stupid philosophies that he refuses to try anything new.

 

I think his quote here is telling: "Maybe the three-hole might be asking a little much too soon. We might drop him to the two-hole, and he might be more comfortable there." I don't think this has anything to do with "protection," or anything else we flippantly label "old school." I think it has more to do with the fact that Piniella probably believes that Fukudome is trying to drive the ball too much, thus expanding his strike zone, instead of remaining patient and trying to simply get on base. Putting him in the #2 hole might be a way to allow Fukudome to re-establish those facets that make him a good hitter.

 

 

Most importantly, however, I think an Allen Iverson quote is probably the most important to remember for some perspective here.

 

Practice? You're talking about Practice... Not the games. Practice...

 

That's all well and good, except for the fact that he apparantly tried the 3 spot for all of 7 AB and was able to determine that Fukudome in the 3 spot didn't work.

 

Spring training should not be about trying things. Spring training should be about getting in game shape. If you want to throw guys into different defensive positions, just to get them some experience, fine, but spring training is a horrible place to "see if things work". Nothing that happens in spring training should determine who plays, and where people hit, in the regular season - with the exception of injuries or trades.

 

Maybe with a familiar vet but Fukudome is like a rookie and Lou has to get a read on him.