Here's the 2 deals Hendry needs to make

[Mephistopheles]

Note to Deuce: If you are going to start a thread on the Cubs.com board badmouthing NSBB, and we are so terrible, then stop posting here.

 

No, I like this board and its quick on getting news and rumors. But some of these opinions that I've come across today are ridiculous.

 

Yeah I know. That one guy who said that batting average meant as much as home runs was really out there. What'd you think about him?

[inari]

In my opinion I would rather have Greene than Theriot. But based on numbers Greene is god awful.

So based on your "numbers" Theriot is better, but you would rather have Green, but Green is god awful. OK, you've convinced me.

 

Because I know it's not just about the numbers, but these guys are insisting on me including numbers into it. I dont think Theriot is good, but I dont think Greene is much of an upgrade. You gotta take into account future projections as well.

 

It is just about the numbers. I don't give two craps what you remember seeing on TV. And future projections? Jesus Christ this isn't worth the time. Is that you, Meph? This isn't funny.

 

It's funny how 4 posts above you just said "STATISTICS DON'T TELL THE WHOLE STORY." And now you say "it is just about the numbers." Ok smarty you know everything yet you just completely contradict yourself in a matter of minutes.

 

Sarchasm: The gap between... eh, whatever his sig says. Statistics do tell the whole story. I was imitating people who like to think they know a lot about baseball but don't.

[DeuceBaseman]

Who would you guys rather have, Ichiro or Andruw Jones? I mean they play similar defense but one hits a lot of HR's while the other has a really high batting average. Based on your importance of HRs and slugging you guys would take Andruw right?

[Rob]

Note to Deuce: If you are going to start a thread on the Cubs.com board badmouthing NSBB, and we are so terrible, then stop posting here.

 

No, I like this board and its quick on getting news and rumors. But some of these opinions that I've come across today are ridiculous.

 

Yeah I know. That one guy who said that batting average meant as much as home runs was really out there. What'd you think about him?

 

I love him. He made my life worth living.

[Mephistopheles]

In my opinion I would rather have Greene than Theriot. But based on numbers Greene is god awful.

So based on your "numbers" Theriot is better, but you would rather have Green, but Green is god awful. OK, you've convinced me.

 

Because I know it's not just about the numbers, but these guys are insisting on me including numbers into it. I dont think Theriot is good, but I dont think Greene is much of an upgrade. You gotta take into account future projections as well.

Name                     P  Age   AVG   OBP   SLG   G  AB   R   H 2B 3B HR RBI  BB   K SB CS 

Ryan Theriot             ss  28  .266  .324  .348 143 492  71 131 25  3  3  42  41  51 25  4 

Khalil Greene            ss  28  .249  .300  .442 139 523  73 130 37  2 20  77  36 111  5  0

Chone Figgins#           3b  30  .283  .354  .386 141 552  92 156 25  7  6  58  60  91 41 12

Kenny Lofton*            cf  41  .279  .340  .356  98 348  55  97 11  5  2  37  33  32 17  4 

 

So Figgins projects @ 44 OPS points over Lofton with comparable defense, and Greene projects @ 50 OPS points over Theriot (with 81 games in PETCO) and much better defense. There, now were taking projections into account.

 

we're taking projections with greene in petco....when hes not in petco if hes a cub

 

 

BRILLIANT!

Wow...even when someone's on your side...

Plus I noted that they were at PETCO to point out that it was flawed...making him look worse than he is. When you can find me full season projections for Greene without 81 games at PETCO, post them.

 

lmao. I actually thought he posted them. i was like, "huh he knows zips?" the quoting system sucks here. sorry

[Banedon]

If you guys were smart you would read it more carefully where I put "since it shows what kind of player they are." HR's and SB's are comparable depending on the player. For instance Greene is a power hitter thus he hit around 28 HR's and had around 4 stolen bases. Theriot is a speedy guy meaning he hit around 4 HR's and has about 28 SB's. See how they are comparable. I'm not saying I would take 28 SB's over 28 HR's, but im saying thats the type of player they are. Greene has a good amount of HR's for the type of hitter he his, and Theriot has a good amount of SB's for the type of player he is. Why is it ok to say that HR's and SLG matter but OBP and SB's dont??? Who the f*ck decides that that is more important in baseball? I completely disagree. I think OBP is just as important as stuff like SLG. I think batting average is just as important as stuff like HR's. It's ridiculous to say it is not!

 

I know that you're new here, and you're getting a lot of disagreement and are fighting an uphill battle an all here...I get that. But cussing, even with parts of the words asterisk'd out, is not pemitted on this board. Keep it clean.

 

A reminder for everyone else. It's ok to disagree on opinions, but no personal attacks please. Thanks.

[mul21]

 

It is just about the numbers. I don't give two craps what you remember seeing on TV. And future projections? Jesus Christ this isn't worth the time. Is that you, Meph? This isn't funny.

There is a real possibility that it is.

 

I'm pretty sure Joe Morgan found NSBB and has somebody typing for him. Although this guy says he's watched games, so maybe not.

[inari]

Who would you guys rather have, Ichiro or Andruw Jones? I mean they play similar defense but one hits a lot of HR's while the other has a really high batting average. Based on your importance of HRs and slugging you guys would take Andruw right?

 

Most years their OPS is probably going to be similar. I don't give a crap about batting average. Assuming that Jones reverts back to pre-2007 they're pretty even. However, I don't think that will happen, so Ichiro.

[Mephistopheles]

Who would you guys rather have, Ichiro or Andruw Jones? I mean they play similar defense but one hits a lot of HR's while the other has a really high batting average. Based on your importance of HRs and slugging you guys would take Andruw right?

 

we're not really saying HRs are worth a lot. We're saying that OBP is worth a lot. and we're also comparing the two extremes, Yes, as long as Jones is hitting his 40 HRs not like last year id take him over Ichiro, who really isnt much more than below average defensively.

[Yanksfan1523]

duece, shut it. i am Mephistopheles and i support greene, so should you.

 

 

it is that simple.

[SouthSideRyan]

Huh, the cubs.com boards got a re-design...

 

Carry on.

[nilodnayr]

SB- 4 vs. 28 (comparable to the HR's since it shows what kind of player they are)

 

LOVE THIS.

 

 

If you guys were smart you would read it more carefully where I put "since it shows what kind of player they are." HR's and SB's are comparable depending on the player. For instance Greene is a power hitter thus he hit around 28 HR's and had around 4 stolen bases. Theriot is a speedy guy meaning he hit around 4 HR's and has about 28 SB's. See how they are comparable. I'm not saying I would take 28 SB's over 28 HR's, but im saying thats the type of player they are. Greene has a good amount of HR's for the type of hitter he his, and Theriot has a good amount of SB's for the type of player he is. Why is it ok to say that HR's and SLG matter but OBP and SB's dont??? Who the ____ decides that that is more important in baseball? I completely disagree. I think OBP is just as important as stuff like SLG. I think batting average is just as important as stuff like HR's. It's ridiculous to say it is not!

 

The overwhelming majority of people on this board will agree that OBP is a very important statistic. Batting average is not. While I understand the point you are trying to make when comparing SB and HR, they just aren't comparable. A home run equals a run, whereas a stolen base does not, thus making home runs much more valuable than steals.

 

SLG > OBP (slightly) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>BA>SB

 

Flip OBP and SLG.

 

The fact is there is basically little to no marginal difference in Greene vs Theriot's OBP. The difference in their slugging with Greene in Wrigley would be huge. In fact, I'd go out on a limb and say that Green's IsoP as a cub would be 2.5 times Theriot's.

[DenverCubs]

Who would you guys rather have, Ichiro or Andruw Jones? I mean they play similar defense but one hits a lot of HR's while the other has a really high batting average. Based on your importance of HRs and slugging you guys would take Andruw right?

The answer to this question has no importance. Ichiro happens to be like the best guy in the last 50 years at hitting a single. Whenever I argue with people about how batting average isn't that important they say something like: "But what about Ichiro, I'd rather have Ichiro than (insert slugger coming off of his worst year ever)". Ichiro is an anomaly. That said, I'll take Andruw's best year over Ichiro's...by a hair.

[DeuceBaseman]

Who would you guys rather have, Ichiro or Andruw Jones? I mean they play similar defense but one hits a lot of HR's while the other has a really high batting average. Based on your importance of HRs and slugging you guys would take Andruw right?

 

we're not really saying HRs are worth a lot. We're saying that OBP is worth a lot. and we're also comparing the two extremes, Yes, as long as Jones is hitting his 40 HRs not like last year id take him over Ichiro, who really isnt much more than below average defensively.

 

 

Ichiro is below average defensively? What?!! Are you kidding me? You would take jones' .220 avg and 40 HR over Ichiro's .350 avg. and 40 SB?

[UMFan83]

SB- 4 vs. 28 (comparable to the HR's since it shows what kind of player they are)

 

LOVE THIS.

 

 

If you guys were smart you would read it more carefully where I put "since it shows what kind of player they are." HR's and SB's are comparable depending on the player. For instance Greene is a power hitter thus he hit around 28 HR's and had around 4 stolen bases. Theriot is a speedy guy meaning he hit around 4 HR's and has about 28 SB's. See how they are comparable. I'm not saying I would take 28 SB's over 28 HR's, but im saying thats the type of player they are. Greene has a good amount of HR's for the type of hitter he his, and Theriot has a good amount of SB's for the type of player he is. Why is it ok to say that HR's and SLG matter but OBP and SB's dont??? Who the ____ decides that that is more important in baseball? I completely disagree. I think OBP is just as important as stuff like SLG. I think batting average is just as important as stuff like HR's. It's ridiculous to say it is not!

 

The overwhelming majority of people on this board will agree that OBP is a very important statistic. Batting average is not. While I understand the point you are trying to make when comparing SB and HR, they just aren't comparable. A home run equals a run, whereas a stolen base does not, thus making home runs much more valuable than steals.

 

SLG > OBP (slightly) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>BA>SB

 

Flip OBP and SLG.

 

The fact is there is basically little to no marginal difference in Greene vs Theriot's OBP. The difference in their slugging with Greene in Wrigley would be huge. In fact, I'd go out on a limb and say that Green's IsoP as a cub would be 2.5 times Theriot's.

 

I could have sworn that I've read that SLG is marginally (theres that word again) more important than OBP in statistical analysis. I thought that was a critique against using OPS as a comparative tool.

[mul21]

Who would you guys rather have, Ichiro or Andruw Jones? I mean they play similar defense but one hits a lot of HR's while the other has a really high batting average. Based on your importance of HRs and slugging you guys would take Andruw right?

 

we're not really saying HRs are worth a lot. We're saying that OBP is worth a lot. and we're also comparing the two extremes, Yes, as long as Jones is hitting his 40 HRs not like last year id take him over Ichiro, who really isnt much more than below average defensively.

 

 

Ichiro is below average defensively? What?!! Are you kidding me? You would take jones' .220 avg and 40 HR over Ichiro's .350 avg. and 40 SB?

 

How many runs does a stolen base score? Zero, right?

 

How many runs does a HR score? At least 1, possibly up to 4.

 

And last I checked the goal is to score runs, preferably more than the other team.

 

I'm trying to make this as simple as possible to help you understand how this actually works.

[DenverCubs]

Ichiro is below average defensively? What?!! Are you kidding me? You would take jones' .220 avg and 40 HR over Ichiro's .350 avg. and 40 SB?

These are career stats:

 

Jones: .263 / .342 / .497

Ichiro: .333 / .379 / .437

 

That's pretty damn close, and it includes Andruw's 07 which was by far his worst since he was like 20.

[UMFan83]

Who would you guys rather have, Ichiro or Andruw Jones? I mean they play similar defense but one hits a lot of HR's while the other has a really high batting average. Based on your importance of HRs and slugging you guys would take Andruw right?

 

we're not really saying HRs are worth a lot. We're saying that OBP is worth a lot. and we're also comparing the two extremes, Yes, as long as Jones is hitting his 40 HRs not like last year id take him over Ichiro, who really isnt much more than below average defensively.

 

 

Ichiro is below average defensively? What?!! Are you kidding me? You would take jones' .220 avg and 40 HR over Ichiro's .350 avg. and 40 SB?

 

Show me a year Jones hit .220 with 40 HR.

[nilodnayr]

SB- 4 vs. 28 (comparable to the HR's since it shows what kind of player they are)

 

LOVE THIS.

 

 

If you guys were smart you would read it more carefully where I put "since it shows what kind of player they are." HR's and SB's are comparable depending on the player. For instance Greene is a power hitter thus he hit around 28 HR's and had around 4 stolen bases. Theriot is a speedy guy meaning he hit around 4 HR's and has about 28 SB's. See how they are comparable. I'm not saying I would take 28 SB's over 28 HR's, but im saying thats the type of player they are. Greene has a good amount of HR's for the type of hitter he his, and Theriot has a good amount of SB's for the type of player he is. Why is it ok to say that HR's and SLG matter but OBP and SB's dont??? Who the ____ decides that that is more important in baseball? I completely disagree. I think OBP is just as important as stuff like SLG. I think batting average is just as important as stuff like HR's. It's ridiculous to say it is not!

 

The overwhelming majority of people on this board will agree that OBP is a very important statistic. Batting average is not. While I understand the point you are trying to make when comparing SB and HR, they just aren't comparable. A home run equals a run, whereas a stolen base does not, thus making home runs much more valuable than steals.

 

SLG > OBP (slightly) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>BA>SB

 

Flip OBP and SLG.

 

The fact is there is basically little to no marginal difference in Greene vs Theriot's OBP. The difference in their slugging with Greene in Wrigley would be huge. In fact, I'd go out on a limb and say that Green's IsoP as a cub would be 2.5 times Theriot's.

 

I could have sworn that I've read that SLG is marginally (theres that word again) more important than OBP in statistical analysis. I thought that was a critique against using OPS as a comparative tool.

 

Nope, you got it flipped. And its more than marginal.

[Schwarber Fan]

Damn Deuce, you shouldn't have made that thread over there because now we're gonna have Cubs.com idiots registering to NSBB.

[DeuceBaseman]

Alright this is getting no where. My opinion is very very different than a lot of yours and I think its crazy what some of you are saying, but we're just gonna continue to argue and argue. I'm done, so you guys can just talk to eachother and jerk off over khalil greene's amazing .291 OBP. So lets just end this discussion.

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

It sucks to get badmouthed on cubs.com, afterall, I think so highly of that community.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Duece,

 

There's some reading you need. I suggest you begin with The Hidden Game of Baseball. It's old, but it still carries some worth, at least the first few chapters.

 

When you finish that one, we'll move on to more meatier and recent works.

[David]

SB- 4 vs. 28 (comparable to the HR's since it shows what kind of player they are)

 

LOVE THIS.

 

 

If you guys were smart you would read it more carefully where I put "since it shows what kind of player they are." HR's and SB's are comparable depending on the player. For instance Greene is a power hitter thus he hit around 28 HR's and had around 4 stolen bases. Theriot is a speedy guy meaning he hit around 4 HR's and has about 28 SB's. See how they are comparable. I'm not saying I would take 28 SB's over 28 HR's, but im saying thats the type of player they are. Greene has a good amount of HR's for the type of hitter he his, and Theriot has a good amount of SB's for the type of player he is. Why is it ok to say that HR's and SLG matter but OBP and SB's dont??? Who the ____ decides that that is more important in baseball? I completely disagree. I think OBP is just as important as stuff like SLG. I think batting average is just as important as stuff like HR's. It's ridiculous to say it is not!

 

The overwhelming majority of people on this board will agree that OBP is a very important statistic. Batting average is not. While I understand the point you are trying to make when comparing SB and HR, they just aren't comparable. A home run equals a run, whereas a stolen base does not, thus making home runs much more valuable than steals.

 

SLG > OBP (slightly) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>BA>SB

 

Flip OBP and SLG.

 

The fact is there is basically little to no marginal difference in Greene vs Theriot's OBP. The difference in their slugging with Greene in Wrigley would be huge. In fact, I'd go out on a limb and say that Green's IsoP as a cub would be 2.5 times Theriot's.

 

I could have sworn that I've read that SLG is marginally (theres that word again) more important than OBP in statistical analysis. I thought that was a critique against using OPS as a comparative tool.

 

It's OBP that is more important and needs to be weighted more heavily than SLG in OPS.

[DenverCubs]

Alright this is getting no where. My opinion is very very different than a lot of yours and I think its crazy what some of you are saying, but we're just gonna continue to argue and argue. I'm done, so you guys can just talk to eachother and jerk off over khalil greene's amazing .291 OBP. So lets just end this discussion.

I'm gonna jerk off SO HARD!!!!