Here's the 2 deals Hendry needs to make

[Rob]

Oh wow, now you guys are gonna gang up on me and say Lofton is better than Figgins. This is freaking ridiculous. I really hope all Cub fans arent as dumb as you guys. I said that I would NOTTTTTTTTT give up stud prospects for Figgins, which is what it would take to get him. But this thread started by saying giving up Murton + others for Figgins. If others included a package centered around Cedeno, Dempster, Marquis, Veal, Patterson I would do it in a second. Yes Lofton's #'s are comparable to Figgins over the last few years BUT there is a reason why he is not signed until the last second EVERY YEAR! I like Lofton but I would much rather have Figgins. Lofton is on the DECLINE. One of these years he's gonna be awful. And when you put up the comparing numbers you guys leave out the real good ones. Figgins is in his prime. Last year could be a sign of things to come, or it could not. Im gonna say it was NOT a fluke. Figgins just turned 30. Lofton will be 41 in a few months. .330 avg, .393 obp, 41 SB!! How are these not stud numbers???? Lofton did very well last year. .296 avg, .357 obp, 23 SB. But that doesnt compare to Figgins, sorry. And you can talk about the previous years, but it wont matter cuz one is on the decline and one is on the rise. So please tell me this. Say we end up trading Pie and Gallagher for Roberts. (which i dont think we will) Which would u rather have......

 

A) Trade Murton, Cedeno, Veal and Dempster for Figgins

or

B) Sign Lofton and keep those 4?

 

Please I hope to God you dont say B. Cuz that is ridiculous.

 

 

The idea isn't to keep those four. The idea is to use those four in a trade that would be more of an upgrade than from Lofton "up" to Figgins... Theriot up to any real shortstop is a much larger improvement than Figgins would be over Lofton, if he is one at all.

[Tracer Bullet]

Oh wow, now you guys are gonna gang up on me and say Lofton is better than Figgins. This is freaking ridiculous. I really hope all Cub fans arent as dumb as you guys. I said that I would NOTTTTTTTTT give up stud prospects for Figgins, which is what it would take to get him. But this thread started by saying giving up Murton + others for Figgins. If others included a package centered around Cedeno, Dempster, Marquis, Veal, Patterson I would do it in a second. Yes Lofton's #'s are comparable to Figgins over the last few years BUT there is a reason why he is not signed until the last second EVERY YEAR! I like Lofton but I would much rather have Figgins. Lofton is on the DECLINE. One of these years he's gonna be awful. And when you put up the comparing numbers you guys leave out the real good ones. Figgins is in his prime. Last year could be a sign of things to come, or it could not. Im gonna say it was NOT a fluke. Figgins just turned 30. Lofton will be 41 in a few months. .330 avg, .393 obp, 41 SB!! How are these not stud numbers???? Lofton did very well last year. .296 avg, .357 obp, 23 SB. But that doesnt compare to Figgins, sorry. And you can talk about the previous years, but it wont matter cuz one is on the decline and one is on the rise. So please tell me this. Say we end up trading Pie and Gallagher for Roberts. (which i dont think we will) Which would u rather have......

 

A) Trade Murton, Cedeno, Veal and Dempster for Figgins

or

B) Sign Lofton and keep those 4?

 

Please I hope to God you dont say B. Cuz that is ridiculous.

 

you just personally attacked like 5 people with one post. Impressive.

[nilodnayr]

Oh wow, now you guys are gonna gang up on me and say Lofton is better than Figgins. This is freaking ridiculous. I really hope all Cub fans arent as dumb as you guys. I said that I would NOTTTTTTTTT give up stud prospects for Figgins, which is what it would take to get him. But this thread started by saying giving up Murton + others for Figgins. If others included a package centered around Cedeno, Dempster, Marquis, Veal, Patterson I would do it in a second. Yes Lofton's #'s are comparable to Figgins over the last few years BUT there is a reason why he is not signed until the last second EVERY YEAR! I like Lofton but I would much rather have Figgins. Lofton is on the DECLINE. One of these years he's gonna be awful. And when you put up the comparing numbers you guys leave out the real good ones. Figgins is in his prime. Last year could be a sign of things to come, or it could not. Im gonna say it was NOT a fluke. Figgins just turned 30. Lofton will be 41 in a few months. .330 avg, .393 obp, 41 SB!! How are these not stud numbers???? Lofton did very well last year. .296 avg, .357 obp, 23 SB. But that doesnt compare to Figgins, sorry. And you can talk about the previous years, but it wont matter cuz one is on the decline and one is on the rise. So please tell me this. Say we end up trading Pie and Gallagher for Roberts. (which i dont think we will) Which would u rather have......

 

A) Trade Murton, Cedeno, Veal and Dempster for Figgins

or

B) Sign Lofton and keep those 4?

 

Please I hope to God you dont say B. Cuz that is ridiculous.

 

you just personally attacked like 5 people with one post. Impressive.

 

More like 5555 people.

[Tracer Bullet]

Well if we want to go crazy...

 

Padres get: Wilson, Murton, Patterson

Cubs get: Greene and Hairston

Pirates get: Cedeno, Ceda

 

Twins get: Pie, Marmol, Veal

Cubs get: Santana

 

Rockies get: Marshall and Burke

Cubs get Baker/Smith and Stewart

 

Dodgers get: Lee, Gallagher, Colvin, Lieber(with his approval)

Cubs get: Loney, Kemp, Billingsley

 

Mets get: Marquis+$2M

Cubs get: Heilman

 

Rangers get: Dempster

Cubs get: Teagarden

 

Kemp

Fukudome

ARAM

Soriano

Loney

Greene

Soto

DeRosa

 

Santana

Z

Hill

Lilly

Billingsley

 

Wood

Howry

Heilman

Wuertz

Eyre

Ascaino

 

Ward

Baker/Smith

Stewart

Hairston

Blanco

Theriot

 

And believe it or not, we actually save money.

 

Not that we'd do 6 trades in the next couple months anyway, but do the Twins & Dodgers really take those packages?

[Tracer Bullet]

Oh wow, now you guys are gonna gang up on me and say Lofton is better than Figgins. This is freaking ridiculous. I really hope all Cub fans arent as dumb as you guys. I said that I would NOTTTTTTTTT give up stud prospects for Figgins, which is what it would take to get him. But this thread started by saying giving up Murton + others for Figgins. If others included a package centered around Cedeno, Dempster, Marquis, Veal, Patterson I would do it in a second. Yes Lofton's #'s are comparable to Figgins over the last few years BUT there is a reason why he is not signed until the last second EVERY YEAR! I like Lofton but I would much rather have Figgins. Lofton is on the DECLINE. One of these years he's gonna be awful. And when you put up the comparing numbers you guys leave out the real good ones. Figgins is in his prime. Last year could be a sign of things to come, or it could not. Im gonna say it was NOT a fluke. Figgins just turned 30. Lofton will be 41 in a few months. .330 avg, .393 obp, 41 SB!! How are these not stud numbers???? Lofton did very well last year. .296 avg, .357 obp, 23 SB. But that doesnt compare to Figgins, sorry. And you can talk about the previous years, but it wont matter cuz one is on the decline and one is on the rise. So please tell me this. Say we end up trading Pie and Gallagher for Roberts. (which i dont think we will) Which would u rather have......

 

A) Trade Murton, Cedeno, Veal and Dempster for Figgins

or

B) Sign Lofton and keep those 4?

 

Please I hope to God you dont say B. Cuz that is ridiculous.

 

you just personally attacked like 5 people with one post. Impressive.

 

More like 5555 people.

 

I was being conservative, and only referencing the people that had specifically indicated that Figgins isn't worth the cost in players given up if Lofton can be simply signed as a FA. But your estimate is likely closer to reality.

[BigbadB]

A) Trade Murton, Cedeno, Veal and Dempster for Figgins

or

B) Sign Lofton and keep those 4?

 

Please I hope to God you dont say B. Cuz that is ridiculous.

 

Where is option C?

 

C) Sign Lofton and trade Pie and other prospects for an upgrade at SS and the pitching staff.

[fromthestretch]

Oh wow, now you guys are gonna gang up on me and say Lofton is better than Figgins. This is freaking ridiculous. I really hope all Cub fans arent as dumb as you guys. I said that I would NOTTTTTTTTT give up stud prospects for Figgins, which is what it would take to get him. But this thread started by saying giving up Murton + others for Figgins. If others included a package centered around Cedeno, Dempster, Marquis, Veal, Patterson I would do it in a second. Yes Lofton's #'s are comparable to Figgins over the last few years BUT there is a reason why he is not signed until the last second EVERY YEAR! I like Lofton but I would much rather have Figgins. Lofton is on the DECLINE. One of these years he's gonna be awful. And when you put up the comparing numbers you guys leave out the real good ones. Figgins is in his prime. Last year could be a sign of things to come, or it could not. Im gonna say it was NOT a fluke. Figgins just turned 30. Lofton will be 41 in a few months. .330 avg, .393 obp, 41 SB!! How are these not stud numbers???? Lofton did very well last year. .296 avg, .357 obp, 23 SB. But that doesnt compare to Figgins, sorry. And you can talk about the previous years, but it wont matter cuz one is on the decline and one is on the rise. So please tell me this. Say we end up trading Pie and Gallagher for Roberts. (which i dont think we will) Which would u rather have......

 

A) Trade Murton, Cedeno, Veal and Dempster for Figgins

or

B) Sign Lofton and keep those 4?

 

Please I hope to God you dont say B. Cuz that is ridiculous.

 

It's absurd to choose between the two since those aren't the only options the Cubs have. However, if they were, B is the better option.

 

I would also refrain from calling people dumb...especially in a post where you cite batting average as a "real good" stat.

[inari]

Oh wow, now you guys are gonna gang up on me and say Lofton is better than Figgins. This is freaking ridiculous. I really hope all Cub fans arent as dumb as you guys. I said that I would NOTTTTTTTTT give up stud prospects for Figgins, which is what it would take to get him. But this thread started by saying giving up Murton + others for Figgins. If others included a package centered around Cedeno, Dempster, Marquis, Veal, Patterson I would do it in a second. Yes Lofton's #'s are comparable to Figgins over the last few years BUT there is a reason why he is not signed until the last second EVERY YEAR! I like Lofton but I would much rather have Figgins. Lofton is on the DECLINE. One of these years he's gonna be awful. And when you put up the comparing numbers you guys leave out the real good ones. Figgins is in his prime. Last year could be a sign of things to come, or it could not. Im gonna say it was NOT a fluke. Figgins just turned 30. Lofton will be 41 in a few months. .330 avg, .393 obp, 41 SB!! How are these not stud numbers???? Lofton did very well last year. .296 avg, .357 obp, 23 SB. But that doesnt compare to Figgins, sorry. And you can talk about the previous years, but it wont matter cuz one is on the decline and one is on the rise. So please tell me this. Say we end up trading Pie and Gallagher for Roberts. (which i dont think we will) Which would u rather have......

 

A) Trade Murton, Cedeno, Veal and Dempster for Figgins

or

B) Sign Lofton and keep those 4?

 

Please I hope to God you dont say B. Cuz that is ridiculous.

 

Coming here and making posts that are fairly obviously wrong then insulting people that disagree with you isn't going to make you many friends.

 

There's smarter Cubs fans here: http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?webtag=ml-cubs. You'll fit right in.

[fromthestretch]

Yes Lofton's #'s are comparable to Figgins over the last few years BUT there is a reason why he is not signed until the last second EVERY YEAR!

 

Lofton's free agent history:

 

October 28, 1997: Granted Free Agency.

 

December 8, 1997: Signed as a Free Agent with the Cleveland Indians.

 

November 5, 2001: Granted Free Agency.

 

February 1, 2002: Signed as a Free Agent with the Chicago White Sox.

 

November 4, 2002: Granted Free Agency.

 

March 14, 2003: Signed as a Free Agent with the Pittsburgh Pirates.

 

October 30, 2003: Granted Free Agency.

 

January 6, 2004: Signed as a Free Agent with the New York Yankees.

 

November 2, 2005: Granted Free Agency.

 

December 20, 2005: Signed as a Free Agent with the Los Angeles Dodgers.

 

October 31, 2006: Granted Free Agency.

 

December 12, 2006: Signed as a Free Agent with the Texas Rangers.

 

 

 

Looks like he signs well before the last second most of the time.

[inari]

Saying that he's always signed at the last minute every year seems to imply that he's always been marginal. Kenny Lofton is a borderline Hall of Famer.

[Mephistopheles]

oh man that would suck

[fromthestretch]

Saying that he's always signed at the last minute every year seems to imply that he's always been marginal. Kenny Lofton is a borderline Hall of Famer.

 

The funny thing is that as he gets older, he's getting signed earlier.

 

It's inevitible that age will catch up with Lofton sooner or later. However, he could also remain productive for a few more years. It's too bad he can't hit lefties very well.

 

Figgins scares me. A .391 BABIP last season? I can't see him repeating that in 2008.

[David]

Oh wow, now you guys are gonna gang up on me and say Lofton is better than Figgins. This is freaking ridiculous. I really hope all Cub fans arent as dumb as you guys. I said that I would NOTTTTTTTTT give up stud prospects for Figgins, which is what it would take to get him. But this thread started by saying giving up Murton + others for Figgins. If others included a package centered around Cedeno, Dempster, Marquis, Veal, Patterson I would do it in a second. Yes Lofton's #'s are comparable to Figgins over the last few years BUT there is a reason why he is not signed until the last second EVERY YEAR! I like Lofton but I would much rather have Figgins. Lofton is on the DECLINE. One of these years he's gonna be awful. And when you put up the comparing numbers you guys leave out the real good ones. Figgins is in his prime. Last year could be a sign of things to come, or it could not. Im gonna say it was NOT a fluke. Figgins just turned 30. Lofton will be 41 in a few months. .330 avg, .393 obp, 41 SB!! How are these not stud numbers???? Lofton did very well last year. .296 avg, .357 obp, 23 SB. But that doesnt compare to Figgins, sorry. And you can talk about the previous years, but it wont matter cuz one is on the decline and one is on the rise. So please tell me this. Say we end up trading Pie and Gallagher for Roberts. (which i dont think we will) Which would u rather have......

 

A) Trade Murton, Cedeno, Veal and Dempster for Figgins

or

B) Sign Lofton and keep those 4?

 

Please I hope to God you dont say B. Cuz that is ridiculous.

 

Coming here and making posts that are fairly obviously wrong then insulting people that disagree with you isn't going to make you many friends.

 

There's smarter Cubs fans here: http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?webtag=ml-cubs. You'll fit right in.

 

I'm not sure even they would think Marmol is almost as valuable as Bedard.

[Yestheydo]

Phase One: Collect underpants

 

Phase Two: ??????

 

Phase Three: Profit

[KingCubsFan]

Why is it OK for everyone to call this guy dumb, but not OK for him to disagree with everyone and do something similar? Anyways, I still don't understand the infatuation with getting more speed on the time. We have Soriano and Pie, so anyone who wants stolen bases on the team should be content. The only time I think speed is truly important is having the speed to take an extra base on a single to the right side or scoring on a sacrifice. And even in those situations, it's almost more important to be a smart baserunner as opposed to a particularly fast one. This team needs more power, period. Sacrificing an increase in power for speed isn't particularly smart, especially considering the park we play in.

[DeuceBaseman]

Oh wow, now you guys are gonna gang up on me and say Lofton is better than Figgins. This is freaking ridiculous. I really hope all Cub fans arent as dumb as you guys. I said that I would NOTTTTTTTTT give up stud prospects for Figgins, which is what it would take to get him. But this thread started by saying giving up Murton + others for Figgins. If others included a package centered around Cedeno, Dempster, Marquis, Veal, Patterson I would do it in a second. Yes Lofton's #'s are comparable to Figgins over the last few years BUT there is a reason why he is not signed until the last second EVERY YEAR! I like Lofton but I would much rather have Figgins. Lofton is on the DECLINE. One of these years he's gonna be awful. And when you put up the comparing numbers you guys leave out the real good ones. Figgins is in his prime. Last year could be a sign of things to come, or it could not. Im gonna say it was NOT a fluke. Figgins just turned 30. Lofton will be 41 in a few months. .330 avg, .393 obp, 41 SB!! How are these not stud numbers???? Lofton did very well last year. .296 avg, .357 obp, 23 SB. But that doesnt compare to Figgins, sorry. And you can talk about the previous years, but it wont matter cuz one is on the decline and one is on the rise. So please tell me this. Say we end up trading Pie and Gallagher for Roberts. (which i dont think we will) Which would u rather have......

 

A) Trade Murton, Cedeno, Veal and Dempster for Figgins

or

B) Sign Lofton and keep those 4?

 

Please I hope to God you dont say B. Cuz that is ridiculous.

 

 

The idea isn't to keep those four. The idea is to use those four in a trade that would be more of an upgrade than from Lofton "up" to Figgins... Theriot up to any real shortstop is a much larger improvement than Figgins would be over Lofton, if he is one at all.

 

Let me guess, you think Khalil Greene over Theriot is more of an upgrade than Figgins over Lofton?? Cuz there arent any other shortstops out there that are available. And Greene is awful!

[Sammy Sofa]

Why is it OK for everyone to call this guy dumb, but not OK for him to disagree with everyone and do something similar?

 

Flip that. He's the one calling everyone dumb because people disagree with him.

[inari]

Oh wow, now you guys are gonna gang up on me and say Lofton is better than Figgins. This is freaking ridiculous. I really hope all Cub fans arent as dumb as you guys. I said that I would NOTTTTTTTTT give up stud prospects for Figgins, which is what it would take to get him. But this thread started by saying giving up Murton + others for Figgins. If others included a package centered around Cedeno, Dempster, Marquis, Veal, Patterson I would do it in a second. Yes Lofton's #'s are comparable to Figgins over the last few years BUT there is a reason why he is not signed until the last second EVERY YEAR! I like Lofton but I would much rather have Figgins. Lofton is on the DECLINE. One of these years he's gonna be awful. And when you put up the comparing numbers you guys leave out the real good ones. Figgins is in his prime. Last year could be a sign of things to come, or it could not. Im gonna say it was NOT a fluke. Figgins just turned 30. Lofton will be 41 in a few months. .330 avg, .393 obp, 41 SB!! How are these not stud numbers???? Lofton did very well last year. .296 avg, .357 obp, 23 SB. But that doesnt compare to Figgins, sorry. And you can talk about the previous years, but it wont matter cuz one is on the decline and one is on the rise. So please tell me this. Say we end up trading Pie and Gallagher for Roberts. (which i dont think we will) Which would u rather have......

 

A) Trade Murton, Cedeno, Veal and Dempster for Figgins

or

B) Sign Lofton and keep those 4?

 

Please I hope to God you dont say B. Cuz that is ridiculous.

 

 

The idea isn't to keep those four. The idea is to use those four in a trade that would be more of an upgrade than from Lofton "up" to Figgins... Theriot up to any real shortstop is a much larger improvement than Figgins would be over Lofton, if he is one at all.

 

Let me guess, you think Khalil Greene over Theriot is more of an upgrade than Figgins over Lofton?? Cuz there arent any other shortstops out there that are available. And Greene is awful!

 

Yes, Greene over Theriot is a much bigger upgrade than Figgins over Lofton. Much bigger. I'd pull some stats to prove it, but you probably saw all four players on TV a few times. How could I argue against that?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Oh wow, now you guys are gonna gang up on me and say Lofton is better than Figgins. This is freaking ridiculous. I really hope all Cub fans arent as dumb as you guys. I said that I would NOTTTTTTTTT give up stud prospects for Figgins, which is what it would take to get him. But this thread started by saying giving up Murton + others for Figgins. If others included a package centered around Cedeno, Dempster, Marquis, Veal, Patterson I would do it in a second. Yes Lofton's #'s are comparable to Figgins over the last few years BUT there is a reason why he is not signed until the last second EVERY YEAR! I like Lofton but I would much rather have Figgins. Lofton is on the DECLINE. One of these years he's gonna be awful. And when you put up the comparing numbers you guys leave out the real good ones. Figgins is in his prime. Last year could be a sign of things to come, or it could not. Im gonna say it was NOT a fluke. Figgins just turned 30. Lofton will be 41 in a few months. .330 avg, .393 obp, 41 SB!! How are these not stud numbers???? Lofton did very well last year. .296 avg, .357 obp, 23 SB. But that doesnt compare to Figgins, sorry. And you can talk about the previous years, but it wont matter cuz one is on the decline and one is on the rise. So please tell me this. Say we end up trading Pie and Gallagher for Roberts. (which i dont think we will) Which would u rather have......

 

A) Trade Murton, Cedeno, Veal and Dempster for Figgins

or

B) Sign Lofton and keep those 4?

 

Please I hope to God you dont say B. Cuz that is ridiculous.

 

 

The idea isn't to keep those four. The idea is to use those four in a trade that would be more of an upgrade than from Lofton "up" to Figgins... Theriot up to any real shortstop is a much larger improvement than Figgins would be over Lofton, if he is one at all.

 

Let me guess, you think Khalil Greene over Theriot is more of an upgrade than Figgins over Lofton?? Cuz there arent any other shortstops out there that are available. And Greene is awful!

 

Yes, Greene over Theriot is a much bigger upgrade than Figgins over Lofton. Much bigger. I'd pull some stats to prove it, but you probably saw all four players on TV a few times. How could I argue against that?

 

 

It's a colossal upgrade from Theriot to Greene. Think the size of Jim Hendry's pants upgrade.

[fromthestretch]

The idea isn't to keep those four. The idea is to use those four in a trade that would be more of an upgrade than from Lofton "up" to Figgins... Theriot up to any real shortstop is a much larger improvement than Figgins would be over Lofton, if he is one at all.

 

Let me guess, you think Khalil Greene over Theriot is more of an upgrade than Figgins over Lofton?? Cuz there arent any other shortstops out there that are available. And Greene is awful!

 

Greene is a massive upgrade over Theriot for reasons that have been discussed to death in this and other threads on here recently.

[nilodnayr]

Well if we want to go crazy...

 

Padres get: Wilson, Murton, Patterson

Cubs get: Greene and Hairston

Pirates get: Cedeno, Ceda

 

Twins get: Pie, Marmol, Veal

Cubs get: Santana

 

Rockies get: Marshall and Burke

Cubs get Baker/Smith and Stewart

 

Dodgers get: Lee, Gallagher, Colvin, Lieber(with his approval)

Cubs get: Loney, Kemp, Billingsley

 

Mets get: Marquis+$2M

Cubs get: Heilman

 

Rangers get: Dempster

Cubs get: Teagarden

 

Kemp

Fukudome

ARAM

Soriano

Loney

Greene

Soto

DeRosa

 

Santana

Z

Hill

Lilly

Billingsley

 

Wood

Howry

Heilman

Wuertz

Eyre

Ascaino

 

Ward

Baker/Smith

Stewart

Hairston

Blanco

Theriot

 

And believe it or not, we actually save money.

 

Not that we'd do 6 trades in the next couple months anyway, but do the Twins & Dodgers really take those packages?

 

Don't know unless we ask!! Its obviously a joke post, but Kemp and Loney are hated in the Dodger locker room and I'm assuming Coletti would love Lee. Lieber fills out the back of their rotation and is insurance incase Schmidt isn't ready, Kemp is possibly the odd man out in the OF and Gallagher and Colvin are upper level B prospects to replace the loss of young SP and CF. They are a vet loving org and Lee gives them that.

 

As far as the Twins, it all hinges on how they view Marmol. If they view him as high as someone in this thread, its a no brainer for them :lol: But seriously, they could view him as the heir apperant for Nathan, hes cheap and under control for a long time (he actually out VORPed Nathan last year). They are very much a tools and defense organization and have been searching for a CF intently this offseason, so they most likely love Pie. As for Veal, hes arguably our best pitching prospect. IMO from a Twins (scouty/toolsy) viewpoint that deal should hold up with some of the recently rumored NYs/Boston offers. Additional plus is Santana would go to the NL.

[Mephistopheles]

i wonder who started the greene love fest on nsbb. Edited January 28, 2008 by Mephistopheles

[DeuceBaseman]

Oh wow, now you guys are gonna gang up on me and say Lofton is better than Figgins. This is freaking ridiculous. I really hope all Cub fans arent as dumb as you guys. I said that I would NOTTTTTTTTT give up stud prospects for Figgins, which is what it would take to get him. But this thread started by saying giving up Murton + others for Figgins. If others included a package centered around Cedeno, Dempster, Marquis, Veal, Patterson I would do it in a second. Yes Lofton's #'s are comparable to Figgins over the last few years BUT there is a reason why he is not signed until the last second EVERY YEAR! I like Lofton but I would much rather have Figgins. Lofton is on the DECLINE. One of these years he's gonna be awful. And when you put up the comparing numbers you guys leave out the real good ones. Figgins is in his prime. Last year could be a sign of things to come, or it could not. Im gonna say it was NOT a fluke. Figgins just turned 30. Lofton will be 41 in a few months. .330 avg, .393 obp, 41 SB!! How are these not stud numbers???? Lofton did very well last year. .296 avg, .357 obp, 23 SB. But that doesnt compare to Figgins, sorry. And you can talk about the previous years, but it wont matter cuz one is on the decline and one is on the rise. So please tell me this. Say we end up trading Pie and Gallagher for Roberts. (which i dont think we will) Which would u rather have......

 

A) Trade Murton, Cedeno, Veal and Dempster for Figgins

or

B) Sign Lofton and keep those 4?

 

Please I hope to God you dont say B. Cuz that is ridiculous.

 

 

The idea isn't to keep those four. The idea is to use those four in a trade that would be more of an upgrade than from Lofton "up" to Figgins... Theriot up to any real shortstop is a much larger improvement than Figgins would be over Lofton, if he is one at all.

 

Let me guess, you think Khalil Greene over Theriot is more of an upgrade than Figgins over Lofton?? Cuz there arent any other shortstops out there that are available. And Greene is awful!

 

Yes, Greene over Theriot is a much bigger upgrade than Figgins over Lofton. Much bigger. I'd pull some stats to prove it, but you probably saw all four players on TV a few times. How could I argue against that?

 

I'll save you the time!!!!

 

Greene vs. Theriot

BA- .254 vs. .266 (hmmmm)

OBP- .291 vs. .326 (hmmmm)

BB- 32 vs. 49

K- 128 vs. 50 (ouch)

SB- 4 vs. 28 (comparable to the HR's since it shows what kind of player they are)

HR- 27 vs. 3 (this is the only thing Greene is that much better than Theriot)... power #s

 

In my opinion I would rather have Greene than Theriot. But based on numbers Greene is god awful. An OBP less than .300!!!!! Are you kidding me? Yes Greene plays good defense and hits for more power. But Theriot isnt that type of player. There is no way Greene is more of an upgrade over Theriot than Figgins is over Lofton.

[Mephistopheles]

duece, shut it. i am Mephistopheles and i support greene, so should you.

 

 

it is that simple.

[wekse]

Oh wow, now you guys are gonna gang up on me and say Lofton is better than Figgins. This is freaking ridiculous. I really hope all Cub fans arent as dumb as you guys. I said that I would NOTTTTTTTTT give up stud prospects for Figgins, which is what it would take to get him. But this thread started by saying giving up Murton + others for Figgins. If others included a package centered around Cedeno, Dempster, Marquis, Veal, Patterson I would do it in a second. Yes Lofton's #'s are comparable to Figgins over the last few years BUT there is a reason why he is not signed until the last second EVERY YEAR! I like Lofton but I would much rather have Figgins. Lofton is on the DECLINE. One of these years he's gonna be awful. And when you put up the comparing numbers you guys leave out the real good ones. Figgins is in his prime. Last year could be a sign of things to come, or it could not. Im gonna say it was NOT a fluke. Figgins just turned 30. Lofton will be 41 in a few months. .330 avg, .393 obp, 41 SB!! How are these not stud numbers???? Lofton did very well last year. .296 avg, .357 obp, 23 SB. But that doesnt compare to Figgins, sorry. And you can talk about the previous years, but it wont matter cuz one is on the decline and one is on the rise. So please tell me this. Say we end up trading Pie and Gallagher for Roberts. (which i dont think we will) Which would u rather have......

 

A) Trade Murton, Cedeno, Veal and Dempster for Figgins

or

B) Sign Lofton and keep those 4?

 

Please I hope to God you dont say B. Cuz that is ridiculous.

 

 

The idea isn't to keep those four. The idea is to use those four in a trade that would be more of an upgrade than from Lofton "up" to Figgins... Theriot up to any real shortstop is a much larger improvement than Figgins would be over Lofton, if he is one at all.

 

Let me guess, you think Khalil Greene over Theriot is more of an upgrade than Figgins over Lofton?? Cuz there arent any other shortstops out there that are available. And Greene is awful!

 

Yes, Greene over Theriot is a much bigger upgrade than Figgins over Lofton. Much bigger. I'd pull some stats to prove it, but you probably saw all four players on TV a few times. How could I argue against that?

 

I'll save you the time!!!!

 

Greene vs. Theriot

BA- .254 vs. .266 (hmmmm)

OBP- .291 vs. .326 (hmmmm)

BB- 32 vs. 49

K- 128 vs. 50 (ouch)

SB- 4 vs. 28 (comparable to the HR's since it shows what kind of player they are)

HR- 27 vs. 3 (this is the only thing Greene is that much better than Theriot)... power #s

 

In my opinion I would rather have Greene than Theriot. But based on numbers Greene is god awful. An OBP less than .300!!!!! Are you kidding me? Yes Greene plays good defense and hits for more power. But Theriot isnt that type of player. There is no way Greene is more of an upgrade over Theriot than Figgins is over Lofton.

 

i'm not sure what to say to someone who believes HR's are comparable to SB's