What's the batting order look like now?

[Soul]

There's still likely 3 holes in that lineup, with Theriot/Cedeno sure bets to not hit, Pie very likely won't hit, and Soto will probably not put up the numbers he put up in Aug/Sept.

 

Soto not putting up monster numbers is not the same thing as being a hole in the lineup.

 

.256/.318/.393 was the line NL catchers put up last year (AL was virtually identical). Catchers were a little better in 2006 and a little worse in 2005. The third best OPS from NL catchers were the San Diego guys who combined for .279/.349/.398, hardly impossible to reach. I think Soto is a fairly good bet to outperform that average. The backup portion of C is likely to underperform, but I think, combined, Cubs catchers should be able to outperform the average, and you can't really be described as a hole if you are better than average for your position. SS is a hole because it's bottom of the barrel, CF may be the same thing. C was in 2007, but shouldn't be in 2008.

 

OK. I have no way of knowing, but I feel like there's a chance Soto drops off significantly. If he still winds up above league average, then it would be difficult to consider it a hole.

 

Here's hoping Fukudome hits career-average numbers and DeRosa maintains.

 

I think there's still plenty of questions here. Hopefully they are answered in the affirmative. I'm no more comfortable with this club heading into '08 than I usually am. I feel the level of concern should be presently fairly high, as per usual. The only thing that tempers it is knowing the division we play in is still largely horrible.

[jersey cubs fan]

OK. I have no way of knowing, but I feel like there's a chance Soto drops off significantly. If he still winds up above league average, then it would be difficult to consider it a hole.

 

The point is, Soto could drop off significantly and still outperform the average. It doesn't take much to look like a competent hitting catcher.

 

At the same time, if he doesn't drop off, he could be top 2 or 3 in the league.

[Ryno is God 23]

Soto just needs to play above average defense.

[Soul]

Soto just needs to play above average defense.

 

Surely his defense will be better than Kendall or Barrett, and therefore will represent an upgrade.

[jersey cubs fan]

Soto just needs to play above average defense and hit.

[JeffH]

Soto just needs to play above average defense and hit.

 

Right. If all he needed to do was play good defense, we could trade him and bring up Jake Muyco.

[Soul]

Soto just needs to play above average defense and hit.

 

Right. If all he needed to do was play good defense, we could trade him and bring up Jake Muyco.

 

My bad.

 

I agree Soto just needs to basically be a good ballplayer :wink:

[Ryno is God 23]

Soto just needs to play above average defense and hit.

 

Right. If all he needed to do was play good defense, we could trade him and bring up Jake Muyco.

 

You are right he needs to be able to hold his own at the plate but his defense is what is most important. I am sick of having noodle arm catchers.

[jersey cubs fan]

Soto just needs to play above average defense and hit.

 

Right. If all he needed to do was play good defense, we could trade him and bring up Jake Muyco.

 

You are right he needs to be able to hold his own at the plate but his defense is what is most important. I am sick of having noodle arm catchers.

 

I'm sick of having impotent bats. Holding your own isn't even good enough. Unless he's the worst arm out there, a catchers arm just isn't all that important.

[Ryno is God 23]

Soto just needs to play above average defense and hit.

 

Right. If all he needed to do was play good defense, we could trade him and bring up Jake Muyco.

 

You are right he needs to be able to hold his own at the plate but his defense is what is most important. I am sick of having noodle arm catchers.

 

I'm sick of having impotent bats. Holding your own isn't even good enough. Unless he's the worst arm out there, a catchers arm just isn't all that important.

 

I do not enjoy impotent bats either.

But if there is one position I want defense over hitting it is catcher.

[apete6]

Lou's Order

Soriano

DeRosa

Lee

Ramirez

Fukudome

Soto

Pie

Theriot

 

My Order

Soriano

Lee

Fukudome

Ramirez

DeRosa

Soto

Pie

Theriot/Cedeno

 

With Roberts (awesomeness)

Roberts

Lee

Soriano

Ramirez

Fukudome

DeRosa (SS)

Soto

Pie

 

I think Aramis is probably our most important hitter. Maybe not best (Lee? Soriano?), but he is patient enough to be able to protect anyone in the lineup and I think that will be very valuable if he bats after Soriano. If Soriano can bat 3rd AND still get all fastballs, he could be fantastic.

[javy knows my name]

My ideal lineup

Soriano

Fukudome

Ramirez

Lee

Derosa

Soto

Pie

Theriot/Cedeno

 

Ping, I singled you out because you are the most educated baseball mind in the thread. Why is Soriano leading off ideal and why Ramirez in front of Lee? Looks good otherwise.

[UK1679666180]

I think Ramirez has passed Lee as the best hitter on the team which is why I have him 3rd, ahead of Lee.

 

As far as keeping Soriano at leadoff, that spot would be between him and Derosa and I think with Derosa unlikely to maintain that same OBP and having a better hitter (Fukudome) behind him that Soriano unfort. (ideally I'd like another a high OBP at the top and pushing Soriano in the middel of the order) become their best leadoff hitter despite more power than an ability to get on base.

[TheDude]

I actually think Lou will try out Lee in the 2-hole. Given his declining power numbers, but consistent zone and line-drive capability, he's ideally suited for it at this stage of his career. It also allows Lou to break up Lee and Ramirez.

 

So my lineup looks like this:

 

Soriano

Lee

Fukudome

Ramirez

Soto

DeRosa

Theriot

Pie

[Soul]

I think Ramirez has passed Lee as the best hitter on the team which is why I have him 3rd, ahead of Lee.

 

And I agree with you.

[rawaction]

I actually think Lou will try out Lee in the 2-hole. Given his declining power numbers, but consistent zone and line-drive capability, he's ideally suited for it at this stage of his career. It also allows Lou to break up Lee and Ramirez.

 

So my lineup looks like this:

 

Soriano

Lee

Fukudome

Ramirez

Soto

DeRosa

Theriot

Pie

 

This would be my lineup. Gives the best 4 players the most ABs throughout the course of the season.

[jersey cubs fan]

I think Ramirez has passed Lee as the best hitter on the team which is why I have him 3rd, ahead of Lee.

 

And I agree with you.

 

Ramirez may be the more naturally gifted hitter, and better hitter for power, and he has been since the two have been teammates. But Lee blows him away in the OBP category and I think that should put Lee in front of Ramirez every time. Aramis is too much of a free swinger for my tastes to be the 3 hitter. Ramirez is what Soriano would be if Soriano had a little better discipline and didn't get himself out so easily. That's more like 5 hitter territory ideally.

[jersey cubs fan]

I actually think Lou will try out Lee in the 2-hole. Given his declining power numbers, but consistent zone and line-drive capability, he's ideally suited for it at this stage of his career. It also allows Lou to break up Lee and Ramirez.

 

So my lineup looks like this:

 

Soriano

Lee

Fukudome

Ramirez

Soto

DeRosa

Theriot

Pie

 

This would be my lineup. Gives the best 4 players the most ABs throughout the course of the season.

 

I'd lean that way as well, but I think I'd prefer Pie in the 7 spot with Theriot 8. I don't feel comfortable introducing a hitter like Pie into the lineup just before the pitcher.

[rawaction]

I actually think Lou will try out Lee in the 2-hole. Given his declining power numbers, but consistent zone and line-drive capability, he's ideally suited for it at this stage of his career. It also allows Lou to break up Lee and Ramirez.

 

So my lineup looks like this:

 

Soriano

Lee

Fukudome

Ramirez

Soto

DeRosa

Theriot

Pie

 

This would be my lineup. Gives the best 4 players the most ABs throughout the course of the season.

 

I'd lean that way as well, but I think I'd prefer Pie in the 7 spot with Theriot 8. I don't feel comfortable introducing a hitter like Pie into the lineup just before the pitcher.

 

Yeah, that may be my only change as well.

[David]

So, I guess nobody is really buying into that guy's story (on the O's board) who said he met and chatted with Lou at a sports convention and that Lou told him that he had Pie penciled in to play CF and lead-off.

 

It sounds like a reach to me, too. Not sure why he'd make it up, though, especially on an O's board.

[CubinNY]

So, I guess nobody is really buying into that guy's story (on the O's board) who said he met and chatted with Lou at a sports convention and that Lou told him that he had Pie penciled in to play CF and lead-off.

 

It sounds like a reach to me, too. Not sure why he'd make it up, though, especially on an O's board.

Was it the same time the Roberts rumors were flying?

 

If yes, there's your answer.

[David]

So, I guess nobody is really buying into that guy's story (on the O's board) who said he met and chatted with Lou at a sports convention and that Lou told him that he had Pie penciled in to play CF and lead-off.

 

It sounds like a reach to me, too. Not sure why he'd make it up, though, especially on an O's board.

Was it the same time the Roberts rumors were flying?

 

If yes, there's your answer.

 

 

One has absolutely nothing to do with the other (the Lou encounter was a random O's fan that happens to be a member of the forum, not an insider), and the Roberts rumors were and are legit. The insiders are completely legit. In fact, the "leg pulling" that happened had to do with the Reds offer for Bedard and little really to do with the Cubs/Roberts stuff.

[UK1679666180]

I wouldn't put Fukudome 3rd, he still has to adjust to MLB pitching approaches and all the adjustments mentally/emotionally to playing in the US and the added pressure.

 

While it doesn't seem like such a sign. move going from the 3rd spot in the order to hitting 2nd, the Cubs don't have a real good #2 hitter although Derosa could become adequate.

 

I def. wouldn't reserve the spot typically given the best overall hitter to someone who hasn't had a MLB AB when there are capable #3 hitter already in place. That's something he could play his way into, which would be ideal as well for hitting #2 but there's a hole there.

[inari]

I'm still assuming we get Roberts.

 

Roberts

Fukudome

Lee

Ramirez

Soriano

DeRosa

Soto

Pie

[jersey cubs fan]

I wouldn't put Fukudome 3rd, he still has to adjust to MLB pitching approaches and all the adjustments mentally/emotionally to playing in the US and the added pressure.

 

While it doesn't seem like such a sign. move going from the 3rd spot in the order to hitting 2nd, the Cubs don't have a real good #2 hitter although Derosa could become adequate.

 

I def. wouldn't reserve the spot typically given the best overall hitter to someone who hasn't had a MLB AB when there are capable #3 hitter already in place. That's something he could play his way into, which would be ideal as well for hitting #2 but there's a hole there.

 

I don't understand the thinking behind not letting him hit #3 because he's new but letting him hit 2 or 4.