WSCR Rumor?

[minnesotacubsfan]

But when you're talking about a guy who's been through all that. (Talking 10 years of it with Hill) don't you think the weak minded ones have been pretty well weeded out?

 

and in fact, this leads to the idea that "choke artists" cannot exist at the major league level, just as "clutch" does not?

 

I wasn't going to mention that cause I didn't want to take the thread another 25 page, but that's correct. If there are people out there that simply freeze under the pressure of hitting in a big spot, they'd have never made it through the minors to begin with.

 

well, I wasnt trying to pin you down, just asking honestly. thanks...I think it has merit.

[UK1679666180]

 

how many major leaguers have you coached?

 

While I disagree with Cuse as far as Prior's toughness, you can look a player's makeup (6th tool, IMO) and get an idea of how mentally tough he is, how he handles failure, etc.

 

Which I can understand when it comes to drafting and developing. But when you're talking about a guy who's been through all that. (Talking 10 years of it with Hill) don't you think the weak minded ones have been pretty well weeded out?

 

Usually, although it depends on how good his stuff ala Ankiel as some get by to a certain point and then when it gets tough, see how they handle it.

[abuck1220]

look, and I am asking this generally, if you base everything on stats, how can you have an opinoin on something that isnt quantifiable with stats? if you can use stats to say its good or bad, you cant have a truly objective opinion when statistics dont exist on a subject. this is the biggest problem I have pure statistcal analysis.

 

Don't hold your breath for a serious response to this question from some of the people on this board.

 

what kind of response do you expect? it's ridiculous.

 

he's asking for a stat that doesn't exist. no one said stats explain everything about the world and noone said they "base everything on stats." it's like he's asking for statistical analysis of love or hunger or something.

 

yup. which is why I find the "beat down Cuse's opinion with the stats" arguement facetious.

 

well, i'm sorry you're having a hard time following this.

 

cuse's opinion was beat down with stats. he said prior "faded" once he started giving up hits. STATS were provided that showed, he was, in fact, better with guys on base. thus, cuse's opinion was wrong. how can it not be?

 

if your opinion was that arod doesn't hit for power, his high slg % would prove you wrong. you could still believe he didn't hit for power (ie you could still have that opinion), but you'd be wrong.

[abuck1220]

 

 

look, and I am asking this generally, if you base everything on stats, how can you have an opinoin on something that isnt quantifiable with stats? if you can use stats to say its good or bad, you cant have a truly objective opinion when statistics dont exist on a subject. this is the biggest problem I have pure statistcal analysis.

 

how prior pitches with men on base is quantifiable and statistics do exist on the subject.

[UK1679666180]

 

I wasn't going to mention that cause I didn't want to take the thread another 25 page, but that's correct. If there are people out there that simply freeze under the pressure of hitting in a big spot, they'd have never made it through the minors to begin with.

 

While I doubt clutch hitting would make or break a hitter getting to the majors, especially watching the Cubs positional prospects come and go, I do think how tough they are mentally and their ability to adjust can make or break them.

[minnesotacubsfan]

sorry abuck, this is what I was arguing you dont have an opinion on:

 

 

his experience as a high school baseball coach gives his opinion as to the psyche of a professional player he's never met respect? not from me.

[abuck1220]

could you please try to be a little more clear about what it is exactly you're saying? i have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

 

as far as that goes, i don't believe his experience as a high school coach gives him any insight into mark prior's psyche. that's my opinion.

[rocket]

look, and I am asking this generally, if you base everything on stats, how can you have an opinoin on something that isnt quantifiable with stats? if you can use stats to say its good or bad, you cant have a truly objective opinion when statistics dont exist on a subject. this is the biggest problem I have pure statistcal analysis.

 

Don't hold your breath for a serious response to this question from some of the people on this board.

 

what kind of response do you expect? it's ridiculous.

 

he's asking for a stat that doesn't exist. no one said stats explain everything about the world and noone said they "base everything on stats." it's like he's asking for statistical analysis of love or hunger or something.

 

So you do recognize that intangibles exist? I'm not trying to be a jerk or start a fight or anything, I'm seriously curious whether "stat-heads" believe in them.

 

of course intangibles exist. but their importance in evaluating a major league player is absolutely, 100%, dwarfed by the importance of using statistics in evaluating a major leaguer's worth.

 

anyways, i think every major leaguer has solid intangibles. if they didn't, they would have broken down and failed long before they ever reached the major leagues. the weak would be weeded out in high school, college, or the minors.

[Exile on Waveland]

look, and I am asking this generally, if you base everything on stats, how can you have an opinoin on something that isnt quantifiable with stats? if you can use stats to say its good or bad, you cant have a truly objective opinion when statistics dont exist on a subject. this is the biggest problem I have pure statistcal analysis.

 

Don't hold your breath for a serious response to this question from some of the people on this board.

 

what kind of response do you expect? it's ridiculous.

 

he's asking for a stat that doesn't exist. no one said stats explain everything about the world and noone said they "base everything on stats." it's like he's asking for statistical analysis of love or hunger or something.

 

So you do recognize that intangibles exist? I'm not trying to be a jerk or start a fight or anything, I'm seriously curious whether "stat-heads" believe in them.

 

of course intangibles exist. but their importance in evaluating a major league player is absolutely, 100%, dwarfed by the importance of using statistics in evaluating a major leaguer's worth.

 

anyways, i think every major leaguer has solid intangibles. if they didn't, they would have broken down and failed long before they ever reached the major leagues. the weak would be weeded out in high school, college, or the minors.

 

Once you weed out the weak, you're left with the major leaguers. However, what was once strong is now weak. What was once a plus slider is now a minus. What was once good bat speed now can't get around on fastballs. What was once a strong mental makeup is now poor. That's what happens at the highest levels. Everything is relative. The lesser MLB players are now the weak.

 

Of course, all this intangible stuff is mostly nonsense; statistical evaluation trumps such tenfold.

[CuseCubFan69]

high schools pitchers have about zero in common with major league pitchers. come on.

 

So your answer is that I don't have anything to do with them becoming MLB pitchers but again, what does your statement say? Do you still say that this statement you made is true?

[abuck1220]

high schools pitchers have about zero in common with major league pitchers. come on.

 

So your answer is that I don't have anything to do with them becoming MLB pitchers but again, what does your statement say? Do you still say that this statement you made is true?

 

yeah. 99.9% of high school pitchers have nothing in common with MLB pitchers.

[minnesotacubsfan]

could you please try to be a little more clear about what it is exactly you're saying? i have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

 

as far as that goes, i don't believe his experience as a high school coach gives him any insight into mark prior's psyche. that's my opinion.

 

I am saying that because you claim your opinoins are based entirely apon stats, you have no meaningful opinion on wether or not his experience as a high school coach can give him any insight on the psyche of a major league pitcher.

 

he may be wrong about Mark Prior with guys on base, but I dont think your able to invalidate his opinion.

 

I'd love to sit down and have a beer with you sometime abuck. you and I could have some serious conversations, my fear is that they would just end up in a brawl, which I certainly wouldnt want.

[OleMissCub]

I'd love to sit down and have a beer with you sometime abuck. you and I could have some serious conversations, my fear is that they would just end up in a brawl, which I certainly wouldnt want.

 

I admire your desire to be friendly and civil with your antagonists, but with certain people on this board it's a losing effort to attempt to do so.

[imb]

I'd love to sit down and have a beer with you sometime abuck. you and I could have some serious conversations, my fear is that they would just end up in a brawl, which I certainly wouldnt want.

 

I admire your desire to be friendly and civil with your antagonists, but with certain people on this board it's a losing effort to attempt to do so.

 

How is anyone antagonizing him? He's making what might be the most ridiculous statements ever posted on this board (and that's saying something, Mr. It was just a pocketknife).

[sethuel1]

I'd love to sit down and have a beer with you sometime abuck. you and I could have some serious conversations, my fear is that they would just end up in a brawl, which I certainly wouldnt want.

Probably a good idea. I said hi to him on the street once and he punched me in the gut and stole my wallet.

[CuseCubFan69]

high schools pitchers have about zero in common with major league pitchers. come on.

 

So your answer is that I don't have anything to do with them becoming MLB pitchers but again, what does your statement say? Do you still say that this statement you made is true?

 

yeah. 99.9% of high school pitchers have nothing in common with MLB pitchers.

 

Where did you get these numbers?

[CUBZ99]

high schools pitchers have about zero in common with major league pitchers. come on.

 

So your answer is that I don't have anything to do with them becoming MLB pitchers but again, what does your statement say? Do you still say that this statement you made is true?

 

yeah. 99.9% of high school pitchers have nothing in common with MLB pitchers.

 

Where did you get these numbers?

 

He pulled them out of thin air. You don't automatically believe them?

[minnesotacubsfan]

I'd love to sit down and have a beer with you sometime abuck. you and I could have some serious conversations, my fear is that they would just end up in a brawl, which I certainly wouldnt want.

 

I admire your desire to be friendly and civil with your antagonists, but with certain people on this board it's a losing effort to attempt to do so.

 

I think we all do a pretty good job as antagonists here...lol

 

 

I'd love to sit down and have a beer with you sometime abuck. you and I could have some serious conversations, my fear is that they would just end up in a brawl, which I certainly wouldnt want.

 

I admire your desire to be friendly and civil with your antagonists, but with certain people on this board it's a losing effort to attempt to do so.

 

How is anyone antagonizing him? He's making what might be the most ridiculous statements ever posted on this board (and that's saying something, Mr. It was just a pocketknife).

 

no, they arent ridiculous. and I have no idea about the Mr It or pocketknife references. stats, I presume? or do I need to have a beer with you too sometime?? :P

 

I'd love to sit down and have a beer with you sometime abuck. you and I could have some serious conversations, my fear is that they would just end up in a brawl, which I certainly wouldnt want.

Probably a good idea. I said hi to him on the street once and he punched me in the gut and stole my wallet.

 

yea, I would have stolen your wallet as well...

[SouthSideRyan]

high schools pitchers have about zero in common with major league pitchers. come on.

 

So your answer is that I don't have anything to do with them becoming MLB pitchers but again, what does your statement say? Do you still say that this statement you made is true?

 

yeah. 99.9% of high school pitchers have nothing in common with MLB pitchers.

 

Where did you get these numbers?

 

Sounds optimistic to say that 1 out of 1000 high school pitchers make the majors.

[CuseCubFan69]

high schools pitchers have about zero in common with major league pitchers. come on.

 

So your answer is that I don't have anything to do with them becoming MLB pitchers but again, what does your statement say? Do you still say that this statement you made is true?

 

yeah. 99.9% of high school pitchers have nothing in common with MLB pitchers.

 

Where did you get these numbers?

 

Sounds optimistic to say that 1 out of 1000 high school pitchers make the majors.

 

That's a different stat. I have that they are male, pitchers and play baseball. I think that alone should count for more than nothing.

[imb]

Just so I can get this straight in my head, you guys are asking for stats that you know cannot possibly exist in a way to validate your theory that you can read Mark Prior's mental makeup from seeing him pitch on tv 30 times?

[waffle]

Prior may pitch better with me on base, but.....

 

how did they get there?

 

think about it

 

To me, prior was always too much of a nibbler for a guy with his stuff.

 

That suggests a certain mental makeup. A certain lack of confidence, or killer instinct.

 

Good pitchers challenge you, but make you swing at their pitches at their count.

[OleMissCub]

I'd love to sit down and have a beer with you sometime abuck. you and I could have some serious conversations, my fear is that they would just end up in a brawl, which I certainly wouldnt want.

 

I admire your desire to be friendly and civil with your antagonists, but with certain people on this board it's a losing effort to attempt to do so.

 

I think we all do a pretty good job as antagonists here...lol

 

 

I'd love to sit down and have a beer with you sometime abuck. you and I could have some serious conversations, my fear is that they would just end up in a brawl, which I certainly wouldnt want.

 

I admire your desire to be friendly and civil with your antagonists, but with certain people on this board it's a losing effort to attempt to do so.

 

How is anyone antagonizing him? He's making what might be the most ridiculous statements ever posted on this board (and that's saying something, Mr. It was just a pocketknife).

 

no, they arent ridiculous. and I have no idea about the Mr It or pocketknife references. stats, I presume? or do I need to have a beer with you too sometime?? :P

 

It's in reference to an argument about Ty Cobb we had, and I guess he doesn't realize I have him on ignore since he's still trying to talk to me.

[imb]

Prior may pitch better with me on base, but.....

 

how did they get there?

 

think about it

 

To me, prior was always too much of a nibbler for a guy with his stuff.

 

That suggests a certain mental makeup. A certain lack of confidence, or killer instinct.

 

Good pitchers challenge you, but make you swing at their pitches at their count.

 

I really hope this is ironic posting, or something.

[USSoccer]

Prior may pitch better with me on base, but.....

 

how did they get there?

 

think about it

 

To me, prior was always too much of a nibbler for a guy with his stuff.

 

That suggests a certain mental makeup. A certain lack of confidence, or killer instinct.

 

Good pitchers challenge you, but make you swing at their pitches at their count.

 

Are you kidding me?