WSCR Rumor?

[UK1679666180]

 

how many major leaguers have you coached?

 

While I disagree with Cuse as far as Prior's toughness, you can look a player's makeup (6th tool, IMO) and get an idea of how mentally tough he is, how he handles failure, etc.

[Backtobanks]

::Vince Lombardi Voice:: What's going on out here?!? ::/Vince Lombardi Voice::

 

Can we change the title so people who want to catch up on rumors rather than participate in the fundamental argument between traditional baseball types and stat heads don't visit this thread to look for any news about transaction rumors???

 

So much for your suggestion. Why is this argument still in the "Transaction" section since it has nothing to do with transactions or the title of this thread.

[Keener98]

BTW, I happen to disagree with Cuse on the overall point, but his experience gives his opinion added respect IMO.

 

his experience as a high school baseball coach gives his opinion as to the psyche of a professional player he's never met respect? not from me.

 

He has seen plenty of pitchers lose it on the mound, and has a greater idea than the average fan of what little things to look for to get an indication of that. Sure, professionals lose it a lot less than high schoolers. If you know a person, that also makes it easier to tell, and obviously Cuse doesn't know Prior. Body language experts would tell you that doesn't matter all that much though. There are many traits that all people do in similar situations if you know what you're looking for, and Cuse has seen examples of it so many times that he has a better chance of noticing a little detail than almost anyone else.

 

So yes, I do believe his profession gives him an edge on noticing something like this. Right now I disagree with him, but his opinion is not absurd.

 

high schools pitchers have about zero in common with major league pitchers. come on.

 

Exactly.

 

 

Right. MLB and colleges get their numbers that are projected by PECOTA and Bill James when players are little leaguers and draft them by using those.

 

How many high school kids have you seen go straight to MLB and pitch? A high school kids mentality is far far different then a MLB pitchers. I highly doubt most MLB pitchers are worried about passing their Chemistry 2 test while pitching, and whether or not Suzie from down the road "likes him". Come on Cuse, there is a big difference between pitching in high school ball, and pitching in the pros.

[CuseCubFan69]

BTW, I happen to disagree with Cuse on the overall point, but his experience gives his opinion added respect IMO.

 

his experience as a high school baseball coach gives his opinion as to the psyche of a professional player he's never met respect? not from me.

 

He has seen plenty of pitchers lose it on the mound, and has a greater idea than the average fan of what little things to look for to get an indication of that. Sure, professionals lose it a lot less than high schoolers. If you know a person, that also makes it easier to tell, and obviously Cuse doesn't know Prior. Body language experts would tell you that doesn't matter all that much though. There are many traits that all people do in similar situations if you know what you're looking for, and Cuse has seen examples of it so many times that he has a better chance of noticing a little detail than almost anyone else.

 

So yes, I do believe his profession gives him an edge on noticing something like this. Right now I disagree with him, but his opinion is not absurd.

 

high schools pitchers have about zero in common with major league pitchers. come on.

 

Exactly.

 

Right. MLB and colleges get their numbers that are projected by PECOTA and Bill James when players are little leaguers and draft them by using those.

 

how many major leaguers have you coached?

 

You're point was the HS baseball players have about zero in common with MLB pitchers. Where do you think MLB pitchers develop? Answer the question. Also, let's see some numbers to prove why you think this is true.

[NCCubFan]

 

Backseat modding is about the lamest thing you can do.

 

your right IMB, it is lame. I should mold my personallity after the greatest poster of all time, you, because you never have had a post that was anything but respectful and enlightened, and you never get old to other posters. IMB for sainthood!

 

 

But to get back to my question, and it is a serious question, isnt Soccer's post an arguement against the idea of a choke artist?

 

imb's not the greatest poster of all time. meph is.

 

I believe that Vance won the tourney here, fella.

 

Yeah, but I got named in the Mitchell report for using posting enhancing drugs... 8-[

It was Derwood who reported you. He figured the only way he could have lost in the first round was if everyone else was on PED. :lol:

[minnesotacubsfan]

 

Backseat modding is about the lamest thing you can do.

 

your right IMB, it is lame. I should mold my personallity after the greatest poster of all time, you, because you never have had a post that was anything but respectful and enlightened, and you never get old to other posters. IMB for sainthood!

 

 

But to get back to my question, and it is a serious question, isnt Soccer's post an arguement against the idea of a choke artist?

 

imb's not the greatest poster of all time. meph is.

 

I believe that Vance won the tourney here, fella.

 

Yeah, but I got named in the Mitchell report for using posting enhancing drugs... 8-[

I thought that was Yeti...

 

Why does everyone want me to name my supplier!!!

 

The problem is, we don't know who was and who wasn't on PED's (posting enhancing drugs). Therefore we must assume an equal posting ground.

 

 

it really is tragic...I mean can I really believe this is the worlds greatest photshopping or is Corel really being used??:

 

created by yours truly, the one and only Meph.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v467/kctigers2323/Icons3/2d2c2b28.gif

 

Simple, but yet so eloquent.

[abuck1220]

 

how many major leaguers have you coached?

 

While I disagree with Cuse as far as Prior's toughness, you can look a player's makeup (6th tool, IMO) and get an idea of how mentally tough he is, how he handles failure, etc.

 

yeah, except he's never met him. ever.

[CubColtPacer]

BTW, I happen to disagree with Cuse on the overall point, but his experience gives his opinion added respect IMO.

 

his experience as a high school baseball coach gives his opinion as to the psyche of a professional player he's never met respect? not from me.

 

He has seen plenty of pitchers lose it on the mound, and has a greater idea than the average fan of what little things to look for to get an indication of that. Sure, professionals lose it a lot less than high schoolers. If you know a person, that also makes it easier to tell, and obviously Cuse doesn't know Prior. Body language experts would tell you that doesn't matter all that much though. There are many traits that all people do in similar situations if you know what you're looking for, and Cuse has seen examples of it so many times that he has a better chance of noticing a little detail than almost anyone else.

 

So yes, I do believe his profession gives him an edge on noticing something like this. Right now I disagree with him, but his opinion is not absurd.

 

high schools pitchers have about zero in common with major league pitchers. come on.

 

Exactly.

 

 

Right. MLB and colleges get their numbers that are projected by PECOTA and Bill James when players are little leaguers and draft them by using those.

 

How many high school kids have you seen go straight to MLB and pitch? A high school kids mentality is far far different then a MLB pitchers. I highly doubt most MLB pitchers are worried about passing their Chemistry 2 test while pitching, and whether or not Suzie from down the road "likes him". Come on Cuse, there is a big difference between pitching in high school ball, and pitching in the pros.

 

The changes in a person's body language when they lose confidence in what they're doing (which is basically what cuse is asserting that Prior lost confidence and faded when he was hit hard) is not that much different from person to person. Also, patterns such as trying too hard to rely on your best pitch when you're being hit hard is normally the same no matter what the age of the person. A high schooler typically has a more pronounced effect because they're much less used to dealing with failure, but any person will have the same fundamental body language indicators when they are not confident in what they are doing. The pros indicators will just be more masked and harder to detect.

[abuck1220]

BTW, I happen to disagree with Cuse on the overall point, but his experience gives his opinion added respect IMO.

 

his experience as a high school baseball coach gives his opinion as to the psyche of a professional player he's never met respect? not from me.

 

He has seen plenty of pitchers lose it on the mound, and has a greater idea than the average fan of what little things to look for to get an indication of that. Sure, professionals lose it a lot less than high schoolers. If you know a person, that also makes it easier to tell, and obviously Cuse doesn't know Prior. Body language experts would tell you that doesn't matter all that much though. There are many traits that all people do in similar situations if you know what you're looking for, and Cuse has seen examples of it so many times that he has a better chance of noticing a little detail than almost anyone else.

 

So yes, I do believe his profession gives him an edge on noticing something like this. Right now I disagree with him, but his opinion is not absurd.

 

high schools pitchers have about zero in common with major league pitchers. come on.

 

Exactly.

 

Right. MLB and colleges get their numbers that are projected by PECOTA and Bill James when players are little leaguers and draft them by using those.

 

how many major leaguers have you coached?

 

You're point was the HS baseball players have about zero in common with MLB pitchers.

 

the high school pitchers you've coached have zero in common with MLB pitchers.

 

Where do you think MLB pitchers develop? Answer the question.

 

high schools other than the one you coach at.

 

Also, let's see some numbers to prove why you think this is true.

 

0. as in the number of times you've interacted with mark prior. or the number of major league pitchers you've coached.

[minnesotacubsfan]

BTW, I happen to disagree with Cuse on the overall point, but his experience gives his opinion added respect IMO.

 

his experience as a high school baseball coach gives his opinion as to the psyche of a professional player he's never met respect? not from me.

 

your experience as a baseball fan doenst qualify you to "prove him wrong" with statistics either.

 

well, that makes no sense.

 

i've never claimed my experience as a baseball fan proves him wrong. the stats, which have nothing to do with me, do a fine job of that.

 

 

you know what, your right it was quite a stretch, but my point remains, what stat proves him being a high school coach gives him no opinoin to player evaluation? I am not even remotely aware of such a stat. granted I learn alot from reading posts from the likes of Meph and even you, but I have yet to see such a stat..

[abuck1220]

BTW, I happen to disagree with Cuse on the overall point, but his experience gives his opinion added respect IMO.

 

his experience as a high school baseball coach gives his opinion as to the psyche of a professional player he's never met respect? not from me.

 

your experience as a baseball fan doenst qualify you to "prove him wrong" with statistics either.

 

well, that makes no sense.

 

i've never claimed my experience as a baseball fan proves him wrong. the stats, which have nothing to do with me, do a fine job of that.

 

 

you know what, your right it was quite a stretch, but my point remains, what stat proves him being a high school coach gives him no opinoin to player evaluation? I am not even remotely aware of such a stat. granted I learn alot from reading posts from the likes of Meph and even you, but I have yet to see such a stat..

 

being a high school baseball coach gives you a 5.209 ability to evaluate a player quotient. being a garbage man gives you a -3.4350 ability to evaluate a player quotient.

 

what are you talking about?

[UK1679666180]

 

How many high school kids have you seen go straight to MLB and pitch? A high school kids mentality is far far different then a MLB pitchers. I highly doubt most MLB pitchers are worried about passing their Chemistry 2 test while pitching, and whether or not Suzie from down the road "likes him". Come on Cuse, there is a big difference between pitching in high school ball, and pitching in the pros.

 

The same things that allow him to make it from HS and college to being successfully to the minors are the same qualities that are going to allow him to make it in the majors.

 

You have to see how a pitcher handles failure, how mentally tough he is, how mature he is, and how good are his instincts even at the HS level.

[minnesotacubsfan]

 

what are you talking about?

 

you said:

 

his experience as a high school baseball coach gives his opinion as to the psyche of a professional player he's never met respect? not from me.

 

and

 

i've never claimed my experience as a baseball fan proves him wrong. the stats, which have nothing to do with me, do a fine job of that

 

so i can only ask what stats prove that he his evaluation on the psyche of a player he has never met means nothing....

[imb]

..........

[OleMissCub]

so i can only ask what stats prove that he his evaluation on the psyche of a player he has never met means nothing....

 

:-s

[minnesotacubsfan]

 

what are you talking about?

 

you said:

 

his experience as a high school baseball coach gives his opinion as to the psyche of a professional player he's never met respect? not from me.

 

and

 

i've never claimed my experience as a baseball fan proves him wrong. the stats, which have nothing to do with me, do a fine job of that

 

so i can only ask what stats prove that his evaluation on the psyche of a player that he has never met means nothing....

 

edit : grammar

[imb]

 

what are you talking about?

 

you said:

 

his experience as a high school baseball coach gives his opinion as to the psyche of a professional player he's never met respect? not from me.

 

and

 

i've never claimed my experience as a baseball fan proves him wrong. the stats, which have nothing to do with me, do a fine job of that

 

so i can only ask what stats prove that his evaluation on the psyche of a player that he has never met means nothing....

 

edit : grammar

 

Like, baseball stats?

[minnesotacubsfan]

 

what are you talking about?

 

you said:

 

his experience as a high school baseball coach gives his opinion as to the psyche of a professional player he's never met respect? not from me.

 

and

 

i've never claimed my experience as a baseball fan proves him wrong. the stats, which have nothing to do with me, do a fine job of that

 

so i can only ask what stats prove that his evaluation on the psyche of a player that he has never met means nothing....

 

edit : grammar

 

Like, baseball stats?

 

 

look, and I am asking this generally, if you base everything on stats, how can you have an opinoin on something that isnt quantifiable with stats? if you can use stats to say its good or bad, you cant have a truly objective opinion when statistics dont exist on a subject. this is the biggest problem I have pure statistcal analysis.

[OleMissCub]

look, and I am asking this generally, if you base everything on stats, how can you have an opinoin on something that isnt quantifiable with stats? if you can use stats to say its good or bad, you cant have a truly objective opinion when statistics dont exist on a subject. this is the biggest problem I have pure statistcal analysis.

 

Don't hold your breath for a serious response to this question from some of the people on this board.

[abuck1220]

look, and I am asking this generally, if you base everything on stats, how can you have an opinoin on something that isnt quantifiable with stats? if you can use stats to say its good or bad, you cant have a truly objective opinion when statistics dont exist on a subject. this is the biggest problem I have pure statistcal analysis.

 

Don't hold your breath for a serious response to this question from some of the people on this board.

 

what kind of response do you expect? it's ridiculous.

 

he's asking for a stat that doesn't exist. no one said stats explain everything about the world and noone said they "base everything on stats." it's like he's asking for statistical analysis of love or hunger or something.

[OleMissCub]

look, and I am asking this generally, if you base everything on stats, how can you have an opinoin on something that isnt quantifiable with stats? if you can use stats to say its good or bad, you cant have a truly objective opinion when statistics dont exist on a subject. this is the biggest problem I have pure statistcal analysis.

 

Don't hold your breath for a serious response to this question from some of the people on this board.

 

what kind of response do you expect? it's ridiculous.

 

he's asking for a stat that doesn't exist. no one said stats explain everything about the world and noone said they "base everything on stats." it's like he's asking for statistical analysis of love or hunger or something.

 

So you do recognize that intangibles exist? I'm not trying to be a jerk or start a fight or anything, I'm seriously curious whether "stat-heads" believe in them.

[SouthSideRyan]

 

how many major leaguers have you coached?

 

While I disagree with Cuse as far as Prior's toughness, you can look a player's makeup (6th tool, IMO) and get an idea of how mentally tough he is, how he handles failure, etc.

 

Which I can understand when it comes to drafting and developing. But when you're talking about a guy who's been through all that. (Talking 10 years of it with Hill) don't you think the weak minded ones have been pretty well weeded out?

[minnesotacubsfan]

look, and I am asking this generally, if you base everything on stats, how can you have an opinoin on something that isnt quantifiable with stats? if you can use stats to say its good or bad, you cant have a truly objective opinion when statistics dont exist on a subject. this is the biggest problem I have pure statistcal analysis.

 

Don't hold your breath for a serious response to this question from some of the people on this board.

 

what kind of response do you expect? it's ridiculous.

 

he's asking for a stat that doesn't exist. no one said stats explain everything about the world and noone said they "base everything on stats." it's like he's asking for statistical analysis of love or hunger or something.

 

yup. which is why I find the "beat down Cuse's opinion with the stats" arguement facetious.

[minnesotacubsfan]

But when you're talking about a guy who's been through all that. (Talking 10 years of it with Hill) don't you think the weak minded ones have been pretty well weeded out?

 

and in fact, this leads to the idea that "choke artists" cannot exist at the major league level, just as "clutch" does not?

[SouthSideRyan]

But when you're talking about a guy who's been through all that. (Talking 10 years of it with Hill) don't you think the weak minded ones have been pretty well weeded out?

 

and in fact, this leads to the idea that "choke artists" cannot exist at the major league level, just as "clutch" does not?

 

I wasn't going to mention that cause I didn't want to take the thread another 25 page, but that's correct. If there are people out there that simply freeze under the pressure of hitting in a big spot, they'd have never made it through the minors to begin with.