Ryan Theriot

[USSoccer]

I don't think that's outlandish. He's not worth $10 million a year. He's not worth that much over 3-4 years, but he isn't even close to being as bad as what some of you guys make him out to be. Outside of a couple unproductive months, Theriot was very good for this team and far from a hinderance.

 

He. Had. One. Good. Month.

 

How hard is this to get? Yeah, good for him, he hustles down the line, and tries hard, and is short and white and whatever, but he's freaking terrible. He's below replacement level, and he's 28. He's not going to be better. He's the primary reason our offense sucks, and yet people like you defend him to the death for some inexplicable reason.

 

People need to get over the Little White Guy crush. He's not a starter on a serious baseball team.

[jersey cubs fan]

I am convinced that Theriot has robbed the homes of at least a dozen people on NSBB.com.

 

i'm convinced he built the homes of at least a dozen people on nsbb.

 

also, is it really so outlandish to think theriot's not worth $10 million?

 

I don't think that's outlandish. He's not worth $10 million a year. He's not worth that much over 3-4 years, but he isn't even close to being as bad as what some of you guys make him out to be. Outside of a couple unproductive months, Theriot was very good for this team and far from a hinderance.

 

Other than the actual facts, you are exactly correct.

 

The funny thing is, he is actually as bad as people make him out to be. He was great for one month, and sucked the rest of the time. He's awful. There's no way to lie your way out of that fact.

[ottawacubbie]

I don't think that's outlandish. He's not worth $10 million a year. He's not worth that much over 3-4 years, but he isn't even close to being as bad as what some of you guys make him out to be. Outside of a couple unproductive months, Theriot was very good for this team and far from a hinderance.

 

He. Had. One. Good. Month.

 

How hard is this to get? Yeah, good for him, he hustles down the line, and tries hard, and is short and white and whatever, but he's freaking terrible. He's below replacement level, and he's 28. He's not going to be better. He's the primary reason our offense sucks, and yet people like you defend him to the death for some inexplicable reason.

 

People need to get over the Little White Guy crush. He's not a starter on a serious baseball team.

 

I don't disagree. However, everyone here who doesn't want him starting has yet to give a decent affordable replacement who would be worth more than we'd have to give up to get him or try the free agent market of David Eckstein, Neifi Perez (Round 2) or Jorge Velandia.

 

It isn't a video game where you can just create a player if the market doesn't have any of what you are looking for or need.

Edited December 11, 2007 by ottawacubbie

[abuck1220]

Outside of a couple unproductive months, Theriot was very good for this team and far from a hinderance.

 

that's an interesting way of looking at it.

 

another way would be to say outside of one good month, he sucked.

[USSoccer]

I don't disagree. However, everyone here who doesn't want him starting has yet to give a decent affordable replacement who would be worth more than we'd have to give up to get him or try the free agent market of David Eckstein, Neifi Perez (Round 2) or Jorge Velandia.

 

It isn't a video game where you can just create a player if the market doesn't have any of what you are looking for or need.

 

Or, we go try the 23 year old we have in house that costs league minimum and actually has a ceiling beyond replacement level.

[BigbadB]

I don't think there's a single person who posts at NSBB who wants Theriot OFF the team. If there is, you'd have to search for quite awhile to find them.

 

Theriot is a more than adequate BACK UP.

 

Ryan Theriot wasn't tired at the end of last season. He was proving his marginal value. The "tired" excuse might just be the lamest thing I've ever heard.

 

As far as options at SS, I'd give DeRosa the everyday job over Theriot. The Cubs have sacrificed offense for defense for too long. I watched Theriot all year, and I've concluded he's a 2b playing SS. He doesn't have the arm or the range to be a great shortstop who provides good offense, rather he has the arm and range to be a mediocre SS who provides inadequate offense. If that's all we are getting at SS, I'll take a poorer fielding Mark DeRosa and his good offense every time.

 

I'd also give Ronny Cedeno another chance, also. Last year we saw an old Mark Loretta playing SS and we saw Brendan Harris playing SS. If those guys can play SS, so can Mark DeRosa. Granted, those guys played on losing teams, but I'd argue that if you put a good enough team on the field to cover up defensive inadequacies at SS (sacrifice the little improvement Theriot would provide over DeRosa), you could win a division with poor defense at SS.

[inari]

I am not going to disagree with you, you have valid points, but (and I am not trying to be a jerk here) the part I don't get is how we fix our biggest offensive hole by replacing.

 

.266/.326/.346 7 HR, 28 SB and a K-ratio of 50/49

 

with

 

.254/.291/.468 27 HR, 4 SB, and a K-ratio of 128/32.

 

Please explain, is it his potential or am I misinterpreting his stats and again I am trying to write this post COMPLETELY void of snarkyness if that is a word.

 

A K/BB ratio has absolutely nothing to do with production. It's meaningless to this discussion.

 

You also can't merely replace Theriot's 2007 numbers with Greene's 2007 numbers. It's a fairly baseless comparison. You must take into account Greene's home park, and how much that hinders his overall numbers. We're talking about one 27 year old player with a career OPS+ of 101, and another 27 year old player with an OPS+ of 83. It's an enormous difference that the SB numbers don't even come close to compensating for.

 

That is true, plus you have to believe that Greene would probably post 25 HR plus for the next 3 years. I agree, now is this increase in production worth trading Rich Hill for even if you were just playing for next year. Potential be damned

 

Is the difference between Joe-SS and Greene => to the difference between Hill and Marquis or Dempster or Marshall whomever would replace him in the depth chart?

 

I'm not sure where you get this idea it would take Rich Hill to get Greeene. No one is advocating that.

[inari]

I don't think that's outlandish. He's not worth $10 million a year. He's not worth that much over 3-4 years, but he isn't even close to being as bad as what some of you guys make him out to be. Outside of a couple unproductive months, Theriot was very good for this team and far from a hinderance.

[BigbadB]

I'm not sure where you get this idea it would take Rich Hill to get Greeene. No one is advocating that.

 

It would take the equivilent of "more" than Rich Hill to get Greene, actually. So it's rather pointless to even bring his name into it anymore. Furthermore, if the Cubs beat out San Diego for Fukudome, does anyone honestly believe the Padres would turn around and trade one of their best players (Greene) to the Cubs as well?

[minnesotacubsfan]

I'm not sure where you get this idea it would take Rich Hill to get Greeene. No one is advocating that.

 

It would take the equivilent of "more" than Rich Hill to get Greene, actually. So it's rather pointless to even bring his name into it anymore. Furthermore, if the Cubs beat out San Diego for Fukudome, does anyone honestly believe the Padres would turn around and trade one of their best players (Greene) to the Cubs as well?

 

IDK. how bad do they want Prior?

[inari]

I don't think that's outlandish. He's not worth $10 million a year. He's not worth that much over 3-4 years, but he isn't even close to being as bad as what some of you guys make him out to be. Outside of a couple unproductive months, Theriot was very good for this team and far from a hinderance.

 

April/March: .299 .347 .328

May: .256 .330 .367

June: .224 .272 .276

July: .348 .437 .483

August: .276 .315 .353

September: .202 .257 .263

 

Which one of these is not like the other?

 

Hint: It's July.

 

That's not a couple unproductive months. That's all unproductive months save one good one and one mediocre one.

[SouthSideRyan]

The idea of Ronny Cedeno is always met with such shock and dismissal(none in this thread, but just saying) that I feel the need to go over it again. At Ronny's current age, Theriot was still in the minors. Ronny was rushed to the majors before he was ready, and tore up the minors in '05 and '07. He was beyond terrible in '06. We all recognize this. He was also 22 years old. Ronny's minor league numbers project him to be a better player than Theriot next year, and a much better player down the line. It should be his spot to lose.

[BigbadB]

IDK. how bad do they want Prior?

 

I can assure you that Towers would be willing to wait another year for Prior.

[Sammy Sofa]

I'm not sure where you get this idea it would take Rich Hill to get Greeene. No one is advocating that.

 

It would take the equivilent of "more" than Rich Hill to get Greene, actually. So it's rather pointless to even bring his name into it anymore. Furthermore, if the Cubs beat out San Diego for Fukudome, does anyone honestly believe the Padres would turn around and trade one of their best players (Greene) to the Cubs as well?

 

Pie/Prior/Cedeno/prospect?

[CubColtPacer]

I'm not sure where you get this idea it would take Rich Hill to get Greeene. No one is advocating that.

 

It would take the equivilent of "more" than Rich Hill to get Greene, actually. So it's rather pointless to even bring his name into it anymore. Furthermore, if the Cubs beat out San Diego for Fukudome, does anyone honestly believe the Padres would turn around and trade one of their best players (Greene) to the Cubs as well?

 

IDK. how bad do they want Prior?

 

Obviously not very much, if they had offered good value for him the Cubs would have traded him without a second thought.

[Sammy Sofa]

I'm not sure where you get this idea it would take Rich Hill to get Greeene. No one is advocating that.

 

It would take the equivilent of "more" than Rich Hill to get Greene, actually. So it's rather pointless to even bring his name into it anymore. Furthermore, if the Cubs beat out San Diego for Fukudome, does anyone honestly believe the Padres would turn around and trade one of their best players (Greene) to the Cubs as well?

 

IDK. how bad do they want Prior?

 

Obviously not very much, if they had offered good value for him the Cubs would have traded him without a second thought.

 

He doesn't have to be traded on his own. Use him as part of a package.

[BigbadB]

I don't think that's outlandish. He's not worth $10 million a year. He's not worth that much over 3-4 years, but he isn't even close to being as bad as what some of you guys make him out to be. Outside of a couple unproductive months, Theriot was very good for this team and far from a hinderance.

 

April/March: .299 .347 .328

May: .256 .330 .367

June: .224 .272 .276

July: .348 .437 .483

August: .276 .315 .353

September: .202 .257 .263

 

Which one of these is not like the other?

 

Hint: It's July.

 

That's not a couple unproductive months. That's all unproductive months save one good one and one mediocre one.

 

Wow, Theriot was nearly as tired in June as he was in September. :roll:

[Peoriaman]

Great. Another 10 page thread bashing Theriot.

[YearofDaCubs]

The idea of Ronny Cedeno is always met with such shock and dismissal(none in this thread, but just saying) that I feel the need to go over it again. At Ronny's current age, Theriot was still in the minors. Ronny was rushed to the majors before he was ready, and tore up the minors in '05 and '07. He was beyond terrible in '06. We all recognize this. He was also 22 years old. Ronny's minor league numbers project him to be a better player than Theriot next year, and a much better player down the line. It should be his spot to lose.

Sorry, but Cedeno has done exactly jack when he's had his opportunities. If you guys are ripping on Theriot for his numbers how can you not rip Cedeno's numbers? He was also pretty bad defensively in the majors. OK, so he does good in the winter leagues and the minors, then why is he so damn bad when he is with the Cubs? Until he proves he can hit in the majors,it's Theriot's job to lose unless we trade for an actual SS.

[BigbadB]

I'm not sure where you get this idea it would take Rich Hill to get Greeene. No one is advocating that.

 

It would take the equivilent of "more" than Rich Hill to get Greene, actually. So it's rather pointless to even bring his name into it anymore. Furthermore, if the Cubs beat out San Diego for Fukudome, does anyone honestly believe the Padres would turn around and trade one of their best players (Greene) to the Cubs as well?

 

Pie/Prior/Cedeno/prospect?

 

Yep, they might just do that. Hendry won't, however. At least I hope not. I would also imagine that one of those guys will be in the Brian Roberts deal.

[BigbadB]

Great. Another 10 page thread bashing Theriot.

 

Actually, no. Another 10 pages of pointing out Theriot's true value to the Cubs. Utility infielder.

[Rob]

I don't think there's a single person who posts at NSBB who wants Theriot OFF the team. If there is, you'd have to search for quite awhile to find them.

 

I do.

 

But only because I'm being realistic. As long as Theriot is on this team, Cedeno is never going to get the shot he deserves. Lou and Hendry have way too much of a man-crush on him. If Theriot were to retire tomorrow, I think our team would be better for it... simply because we'd have to go out and find somebody to fill the position, or give Cedeno the nod.

 

In a perfect world, I wouldn't mind Theriot as a backup. But I don't see Lou using him in that role.

 

And I just want to point this out one more time.

 

Yes, at age 23 Cedeno was horrible in 2006 at the major league level... posting an OPS of .610.

 

At the same age, Theriot split time pretty evenly between A ball and AA, posting OPSs of .671 and .621, respectively.

 

We don't even have to look outside the organization to replace Theriot. Cedeno is the better in-house option, and by a very significant margin.

[USSoccer]

Sorry, but Cedeno has done exactly jack when he's had his opportunities. If you guys are ripping on Theriot for his numbers how can you not rip Cedeno's numbers? He was also pretty bad defensively in the majors. OK, so he does good in the winter leagues and the minors, then why is he so damn bad when he is with the Cubs? Until he proves he can hit in the majors,it's Theriot's job to lose unless we trade for an actual SS.

 

Repeat after me: Cedeno was 22 in 2006. Ryan Theriot was 27 in 2007. Do you see how that maybe might be a factor in Cedeno's numbers?

 

I don't understand how people can be this blind to fact.

Edited December 11, 2007 by USSoccer

[abuck1220]

Great. Another 10 page thread bashing Theriot.

 

yeah, how dare people post his mediocre-to-terrible stats. how insulting.

[jersey cubs fan]

Great. Another 10 page thread bashing Theriot.

 

If it wasn't for all the blind allegiance to him, there would be no need to constantly point out the truth.