MacPhail: Deal is dead (p. 297), stop posting, go outside

[Post Count Padder]

Jose Uribe is available. Not great but not the worst.

 

Alex Cintron has about a 99.9% chance of being a Cub - classic Hendry move.

 

Neifi Perez should be available by the all-star break after his 50 game suspension. :)

 

I'm assuming Juan Uribe and not former Giant SS Jose Uribe. :wink:

 

His contract is expensive but he's a better defensive SS while being one of the more frustrating players to watch at the plate, despite having some pop.

 

It would be a tough decision between Theriot and Uribe, although I would lean towards keeping Theriot.

 

Of the two, it'd be a real close call... But Uribe has an edge of at least 10-15 runs with the glove. Can Theriot real make it up with the bat?

So what you're saying is that Uribe would make up for the RGI that we lost by trading Izturis last year?

[UK1679666180]

I don't know, it's another sub .300 OBP with a lineup with Pie in it and a pitcher and an additional salary to boot..

[Rob]

I don't know, it's another sub .300 OBP with a lineup with Pie in it and a pitcher and an additional salary to boot..

 

Yeah, I guess no matter our option it's still real ugly.

[UK1679666180]

So what you're saying is that Uribe would make up for the RGI that we lost by trading Izturis last year?

 

Heh, unlike Izturis, Uribe hasn't regressed defensively due to injury.

[DiamondMind]

I still want to know why we're devoting 200 pages to a non-existent 2B problem, and why the Cubs office has been the same for well...forever. Grudzielanek, Walker, DeRosa...none of them are/were great but they're all more than adequate. And all this time SS has been a black hole. I just don't get it, I really don't. Where's the 200 page thread calling attention to our complete lack of anything resembling a competent SS?

 

It's cliche, but I've always been a believer of building teams up the middle (C, 2B, SS, CF) and it always seems like the Cubs do the exact opposite.

[Guest]

May I once again mention whichever of Lugo / Lowrie Boston would prefer to move?

[Post Count Padder]

Only 12 more pages to go

[Rusch33]

Juan Uribe over Ryan Theriot?

 

No thanks.

[Rob]

May I once again mention whichever of Lugo / Lowrie Boston would prefer to move?

 

I'm gonna need to see some sort of a rebound from Lugo before I get even remotely interested.

[Fred Hornkohl]

Does anyone have the numbers from when Soriano was injured and Theriot was in the leadoff spot? Not trying to say he'd be just as good as the other options discussed at length, but I remember him being pretty productive during that time frame. Just curious.

 

lead off      W/L    pct    R/G   RA/G
Soriano     69-56   .552   4.59   4.14
Theriot     15-19   .441   4.79   4.71
Pie          1-2    .333   5.00   4.00

[anabiono]

May I once again mention whichever of Lugo / Lowrie Boston would prefer to move?

 

 

i really think we should look into a marmol for lowrie swap

[badnews]

I don't have the time to organize this well, but I'll just quote what I don't agree with it and then post why I don't agree with it. Who knows who posted what.

 

You don't move Gallagher for unknown return, but Roberts return value is known, predictable, and needed, so the gamble surrounding the deal is almost entirely in the Orioles corner. They could end up with nothing 'real' in value.

 

I don't think Roberts return value is predictable. Is he a 50 steals, .810 OPS guy, or a 35 steals, .750 OPS guy (which makes him look more like Ryan Freel)? Anyway, that's what all teams are faced with, even the Marlins in the Cabrera/Willis trade. Can Maybin get his strikeouts under control? Miller looks less like the next Randy Johnson every day. There are risks in every trade. How many guarantees should a Brian Roberts trade buy when trades like the Renteria trade bought no guarantees?

 

The inclusion of Payton in the deal doesn't make sense, but otherwise the reaction of Gallagher + Murton + Cedeno for Roberts is way overblown. Hendry would not be getting fleeced as advertised - he would be doing something people also bitch about him never doing, selling high. But that's the way people are around here; there is no concept of sell high on this board because the Cubs prospects of value are treated as gods.

 

We're past Gallagher, Murton, and Cedeno, now we're throwing in a 4th guy, and people are rightfully upset about this. Hendry's only selling high on Gallagher, and worse yet, he's buying high on Roberts. Cubs' prospects are not treated like gods - they're treated like crap, or as tools used used to try and get the "All Star flavor of the month."

 

And a POSSIBLE #3 SP, a 4th OF, and a backup SS for an All-Star 2B??? No that is not enough to get an All-Star!

 

Gee, let's see - the Twins got Castillo originally for way less, their deal was settled around a relief prospect. The Braves got Renteria for less. Both are All-Stars. So you're wrong.

 

Make no mistake..Brian Roberts is worth that much. He is one of the better players in the game at his position, and he isn't going to be given away.

 

Yeah and none of those guys would be considered a elite player for his position.

 

Apparently he's the best player on the planet to have so few suitors.

 

Roberts is a elite player for 2B.

 

I'd like to hear that list and B.J. Upton doesn't count since he's playing CF

 

Here's a list of 2b I'd rather have than Brian Roberts:

 

Chase Utley

Robinson Cano

Rickie Weeks

Orlando Hudson

Brandon Phillips

Howie Kendrick

 

I say that assuming equal salary on all of them. We're pretending Howie Kendrick makes $5 million and Roberts makes $5 million.

 

I call it a draw on Placido Polanco. I don't think Pedroia is better than Roberts but Roberts doesn't blow him out of the water either.

 

Utley is the only player among 2nd basemen that has more total win shares than roberts in the past three years.

 

That takes into account Roberts' not-going-to-happen-again 2005, and it doesn't really tell the whole story. Most of the guys who are better than him having been playing that long.

 

This one was Rawaction's, I believe:

 

Ok? And what does that have to do with today? Renteria is not available. Roberts likely is. Do you not improve the team because you can't improve it as good as you could have 5 months ago? That makes no sense.

 

What doesn't make sense to me is, every time the Cubs overpay for a guy, people fall back on this all-too convenient crutch. People point out that compared to 1 month of Trachsel, the Cubs are getting ripped off when you look at the trades of Kyle Lohse and Jamie Moyer, and people respond "Yeah, but that was like a month ago and now they're not available, and this the deal we're looking at so..." So... what? It's just an excuse, a sleight-of-hand, a game of "Pay no attention to the fact that other clubs make perfectly reasonable trades and we get crapped on." Same thing with the Greg Maddux trade, or Jason Kendall trade.

 

Given those limitations, does making the Roberts trade make the team better than standing pat and playing with the current team?

 

That's a poor evaluation of what makes a good trade, I think. The A.J. Pierzynski trade fits that standard. If the Diamondbacks threw Jose Valverde, Stephen Drew, and Chad Tracy into the A's deal that would fit that standard. The Mariners trading Derek Lowe and Jason Varitek for Heathcliff Slocumb fits that standard.

 

Here's another reason why those standards are unfair. You're saying this in the only trade Hendry wants to consider and there are certain players on the Cubs that they don't value, so this is the only way the team gets improved. It's the same thing as the Kendall deal. "Is the team better off with Kendall than without him?" "Well, just play Soto." "Management doesn't want to play Soto." "Okay, the answer is we're better off with Kendall than Rob Bowen." "So make the trade unless you're a Communist sympathizer who doesn't want to improve the team." Fast forward and Baseball America keeps featuring Jerry Blevins in articles like "Hardest throwing lefties." So huzzah! We may have just made a Jeremy Accardo for Shea Hillenbrand type of trade.

 

This is kind of pointless. No one can convince me that caving like a ton of bricks every time you want to improve the team is good policy. No one can convince me that trading Gallagher, Murton, Cedeno, and Colvin/Veal for Roberts and taking back $5 million in deadweight crap salary in Payton is good policy. No one can convince me that making short-sighted, overpaying trades under the moniker of "OMG 100 yearz!!!111!!!" is good policy.

 

The Indians haven't won a World Series in 60 years, I don't see them getting bent over every time they go to the trading table.

 

If Angelos loves Roberts so much, fine let him keep him. I don't think caving just to satisfy, as Dennis Hopper put it in the 1994 smash hit Speed "the whim of a madman" is a good idea.

[brinoch]

If the price is right, I would love Roberts at 2B. The problem is that SS is a more glaring need than 2B -- at least to some people (of course being one of those people, I believe they are entirely correct).

 

Roberts is clearly available though, whereas there aren't any SS improvements over Theriot who are known to be on the market. We like to talk about Peralta and Greene, but there have been no indications that their teams want to trade them.

 

True enough. But spending basically all of your available trading chips on one of your already solid positions isn't, to my mind, the best decision. I have no problem with trading for Roberts; I do have a problem overpaying for Roberts. The Cubs could do much better upgrading SP or holding on to Gallagher, Cedeno and Murton for a mid-season upgrade.

[killthegoat06]

Only 12 more pages to go

This isn't even the first roberts thread.

[Lefty]

Gallagher AND Murton AND Cedeno sounds like a lot.

 

I am all for trading for Roberts if the package is 2 of the above or a lesser 3. All three of those guys are essentially major league ready and, IMO, would take away from the depth of this years ballclub.

 

Those aren't the names being tossed around at this point. I would have to say that when the talks between Hendry and MacPhail started that these were the names brought up. It would seem to make sense that since this time the names have changed. You have to remember that when MacPhail started discussions with the M's about the Bedard deal that 3 names were quickly agreed upon by both sides but it took awhile to agree on the other two. I would have to say that this deal if made is going to take awhile as I am sure both sides are throwing out names as to who would be involved. ;)

 

Dumb question. Does Hendry know that Sean has lost 25 pounds?

[anabiono]

Gallagher AND Murton AND Cedeno sounds like a lot.

 

I am all for trading for Roberts if the package is 2 of the above or a lesser 3. All three of those guys are essentially major league ready and, IMO, would take away from the depth of this years ballclub.

 

Those aren't the names being tossed around at this point. I would have to say that when the talks between Hendry and MacPhail started that these were the names brought up. It would seem to make sense that since this time the names have changed. You have to remember that when MacPhail started discussions with the M's about the Bedard deal that 3 names were quickly agreed upon by both sides but it took awhile to agree on the other two. I would have to say that this deal if made is going to take awhile as I am sure both sides are throwing out names as to who would be involved. ;)

 

Dumb question. Does Hendry know that Sean has lost 25 pounds?

 

what does all the winking mean?

 

:scratch:

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Gallagher AND Murton AND Cedeno sounds like a lot.

 

I am all for trading for Roberts if the package is 2 of the above or a lesser 3. All three of those guys are essentially major league ready and, IMO, would take away from the depth of this years ballclub.

 

Those aren't the names being tossed around at this point. I would have to say that when the talks between Hendry and MacPhail started that these were the names brought up. It would seem to make sense that since this time the names have changed. You have to remember that when MacPhail started discussions with the M's about the Bedard deal that 3 names were quickly agreed upon by both sides but it took awhile to agree on the other two. I would have to say that this deal if made is going to take awhile as I am sure both sides are throwing out names as to who would be involved. ;)

 

Dumb question. Does Hendry know that Sean has lost 25 pounds?

Dumber question. Can you ask Sean to help me lose 25 pounds?

[YearofDaCubs]

Well if peoriachiefs is insinuating that Gallagher is not one of the names on the list, then that makes me much happier.

[C.C.]

;)

 

Deal could be close...

[David]

Well if peoriachiefs is insinuating that Gallagher is not one of the names on the list, then that makes me much happier.

 

I think he's just implying that since a deal hasn't been reached yet, and those were the names we've been hearing for a long time, that the names aren't the same. I'm not sure he's implying that Gallagher isn't one of the names, nor do I really think that Sean would know that himself.

 

I'm not reading anything into the winking, because PC has done it in every post recently, including ones that couldn't possibly be insinuating anything.

 

 

 

;)

[pitchcs]

Gallagher AND Murton AND Cedeno sounds like a lot.

 

I am all for trading for Roberts if the package is 2 of the above or a lesser 3. All three of those guys are essentially major league ready and, IMO, would take away from the depth of this years ballclub.

 

Those aren't the names being tossed around at this point. I would have to say that when the talks between Hendry and MacPhail started that these were the names brought up. It would seem to make sense that since this time the names have changed. You have to remember that when MacPhail started discussions with the M's about the Bedard deal that 3 names were quickly agreed upon by both sides but it took awhile to agree on the other two. I would have to say that this deal if made is going to take awhile as I am sure both sides are throwing out names as to who would be involved. ;)

 

Dumb question. Does Hendry know that Sean has lost 25 pounds?

 

 

How does he even know what names are being tossed around?

[BigbadB]

Cleveland wanted Jason Bay, but didn't want to pay up what Pittsburgh wanted to let Bay go. Cleveland has a luxury at SS/2b with Peralta, Cabrera and Josh Barfield. The Cubs need a SS.

 

Cleveland receives Jason Bay

Cubs receive Jhonny Peralta

Pittsburgh receives a package of players from Cleveland and Cubs.

 

Say something along the lines of Andy Marte, Matt Murton, Sean Marshall and Cedeno.

[Lefty]

Gallagher AND Murton AND Cedeno sounds like a lot.

 

I am all for trading for Roberts if the package is 2 of the above or a lesser 3. All three of those guys are essentially major league ready and, IMO, would take away from the depth of this years ballclub.

 

Those aren't the names being tossed around at this point. I would have to say that when the talks between Hendry and MacPhail started that these were the names brought up. It would seem to make sense that since this time the names have changed. You have to remember that when MacPhail started discussions with the M's about the Bedard deal that 3 names were quickly agreed upon by both sides but it took awhile to agree on the other two. I would have to say that this deal if made is going to take awhile as I am sure both sides are throwing out names as to who would be involved. ;)

 

Dumb question. Does Hendry know that Sean has lost 25 pounds?

 

 

How does he even know what names are being tossed around?

 

Well you could hear your name, call your boss and he might say what you heard was accurate at the time but no longer.

[UMFan83]

I am in insider for the insiders and this is what I'm hearing:

 

Take this FWIW,

 

Andy and Jim have agreed on a deal and have begun the customary 5 month trading period. Sean Gallagher will begin his bicycle ride to Baltimore tomorrow. Upon arriving there in early April, he will go through an exhaustive 45 day physical that will be attended by top physicists from around the world. Assuming he passes this rigorous test, both teams will have to go through a long waiting period to decide when to announce the trade. This is the exact quote that BigBird heard from MacPhail and Peace has also confirmed to me:

 

"We don't want to ruin anyone's day in the sun. From April to October, teams play games and make news everyday. We have to find a good day to announce the trade and not show up any teams. We could announce it and later that day, Rays SS Jason Bartlett could break out with a 4-6 game. Thats a big deal for Jason Bartlett, and who are we to steal his sunshine by trading our marginal All Star second baseman? So its delicate."

 

Word is the trade will go through the day after the All Star game. Again, take this with a grain of salt.

[Athletics36]

Well if peoriachiefs is insinuating that Gallagher is not one of the names on the list, then that makes me much happier.

 

I think he's just implying that since a deal hasn't been reached yet, and those were the names we've been hearing for a long time, that the names aren't the same. I'm not sure he's implying that Gallagher isn't one of the names, nor do I really think that Sean would know that himself.

 

I'm not reading anything into the winking, because PC has done it in every post recently, including ones that couldn't possibly be insinuating anything.

 

As I was trying to say is that the initial names couldv'e been Gallagher, Murton and Cedeno that were brought up. I think that since the initial discussions that maybe the names have changed?? as to who I would have no idea. I also brought up in my post that the deal between the O's/M's that three names were agreed upon quickly it was the other parts that took awhile. I really don't know anything more than what I read between the websites... ](*,)

 

 

 

;)