MacPhail: Deal is dead (p. 297), stop posting, go outside

[Vinestal]

Almost 70 pages about Brian Roberts.

 

wow.

 

LOL

Actually half of those had nothing to do with Brian Roberts

[St.Paul Cub]

Everytime I get tricked into checking this thread and nothing ever new or interesting.

[Tracer Bullet]

Everytime I get tricked into checking this thread and nothing ever new or interesting.

 

I'd almost rather it be locked for this reason. Even if something comes up, it would make more sense to have a new thread about it.

[bhogg]

Everytime I get tricked into checking this thread and nothing ever new or interesting.

 

I'd almost rather it be locked for this reason. Even if something comes up, it would make more sense to have a new thread about it.

 

 

no way jose. new threads are against company policy and confuse the bejesus out of people.

[BigbadB]

the title will get changed if something happens

[Tracer Bullet]

Everytime I get tricked into checking this thread and nothing ever new or interesting.

 

I'd almost rather it be locked for this reason. Even if something comes up, it would make more sense to have a new thread about it.

 

 

no way jose. new threads are against company policy and confuse the bejesus out of people.

 

It would really be confusing to lock this thread so that if/when a trade actually happens, a new thread that says "Cubs wildly overpay to acquire Roberts" in the title can be started? It's been weeks since the last change in the title and, as someone else pointed out, many posts in this thread have nothing to be with Roberts. Heck, many don't even discuss the Orioles, insiders, or legs.

[Mizzou]

move theriot down to 8th as he has a good eye at the plate

 

Yes, the guy who took fewer pitches than anyone else on the team has a "good eye at the plate."

Theriot does have a good eye. The fact that his P/PA is last on the team is misleading. Most of his at bats came as the 2 hitter in the lineup. Batting in front of Lee, he naturally got a lot of good pitches to hit. Pitchers weren't going to throw him junk out of the zone (because they knew he had a good eye, and wouldn't swing at it) and walk him in front of Lee. They knew that he was a contact hitter that hits the ball on the ground a lot, so they threw him pitches to hit. You can fault Theriot for several things, but having a good eye is not one of them. All you have to do is watch a few games and you'll see that he knows the strike zone very well. Just looking at his P/PA and concluding that he doesn't have a good eye is simply wrong and a great example of how stats don't tell you everything.

[CubinNY]

Just looking at his P/PA and concluding that he doesn't have a good eye is simply wrong and a great example of how stats don't tell you everything.

 

He spent a fair amount of time at the top of the order when Soriano was out so I don't buy your argument about hitting in front of Lee as the main cause. And his .266 BA tells the rest of the story.

[Mizzou]

Just looking at his P/PA and concluding that he doesn't have a good eye is simply wrong and a great example of how stats don't tell you everything.

 

He spent a fair amount of time at the top of the order when Soriano was out so I don't buy your argument about hitting in front of Lee as the main cause. And his .266 BA tells the rest of the story.

More than half of his at bats came hitting 2nd. About 80% of his at bats came hitting 1st or 2nd. He doesn't strike out that much, and if he's the terrible hitter that most people on here think he is, doesn't it make sense that pitchers would throw him pitches that he'll hit on the ground? I'm not saying anything about Theriot's baseball ability, other than commenting on his eye at the plate. I've watched enough games (and I'm sure you have too) to know that Theriot doesn't swing at crap. As such, the fact that his P/PA is so bad probably has something to do with the fact that he's seeing a lot of strikes.

 

I really don't like looking at P/PA anyways. To use a very simplistic example, a player who looks at three fastballs down the middle every time he steps into the box will be said to "have a better eye" than someone who swings at the first pitch and hits a double every time up there if you only look at his P/PA. This is an area where I think scouting/watching the game/whatever you want to call it easily trumps looking at statistics.

[CubinNY]

Just looking at his P/PA and concluding that he doesn't have a good eye is simply wrong and a great example of how stats don't tell you everything.

 

He spent a fair amount of time at the top of the order when Soriano was out so I don't buy your argument about hitting in front of Lee as the main cause. And his .266 BA tells the rest of the story.

More than half of his at bats came hitting 2nd. About 80% of his at bats came hitting 1st or 2nd. He doesn't strike out that much, and if he's the terrible hitter that most people on here think he is, doesn't it make sense that pitchers would throw him pitches that he'll hit on the ground? I'm not saying anything about Theriot's baseball ability, other than commenting on his eye at the plate. I've watched enough games (and I'm sure you have too) to know that Theriot doesn't swing at crap. As such, the fact that his P/PA is so bad probably has something to do with the fact that he's seeing a lot of strikes.

 

I really don't like looking at P/PA anyways. To use a very simplistic example, a player who looks at three fastballs down the middle every time he steps into the box will be said to "have a better eye" than someone who swings at the first pitch and hits a double every time up there if you only look at his P/PA. This is an area where I think scouting/watching the game/whatever you want to call it easily trumps looking at statistics.

It's not really worth debating, but if he has such a good eye he'd wait for a pitch that he could drive like Bellhorn use to do instead of swinging at anything in the zone (a bit of an over simplification).

[RammyFanny]

Latest from one of their insiders, though he's basically quoting Levine:

from a Cubs board....

 

Just a couple comments from Bruce Levine this morning:

 

The Cubs are still very interested in Roberts and he expects talks to continue next week.

 

The players he's hearing in a potential deal are Cedeno, Gallagher, and either Veal or Marshall.

 

Levine thinks if the Cubs acquire Roberts, they'd put him at leadoff and ask Soriano to bat down in the order.

 

 

Peace21....Looks like the Marshall piece I was told has some teeth.

[PrimeTime]

Just get it done already and then get another starter which is what we really need.

[RammyFanny]

Levine didn't mention Murton supposedly in the Roberts trade, which could be interesting.

[Rob]

move theriot down to 8th as he has a good eye at the plate

 

Yes, the guy who took fewer pitches than anyone else on the team has a "good eye at the plate."

Theriot does have a good eye. The fact that his P/PA is last on the team is misleading. Most of his at bats came as the 2 hitter in the lineup. Batting in front of Lee, he naturally got a lot of good pitches to hit. Pitchers weren't going to throw him junk out of the zone (because they knew he had a good eye, and wouldn't swing at it) and walk him in front of Lee. They knew that he was a contact hitter that hits the ball on the ground a lot, so they threw him pitches to hit. You can fault Theriot for several things, but having a good eye is not one of them. All you have to do is watch a few games and you'll see that he knows the strike zone very well. Just looking at his P/PA and concluding that he doesn't have a good eye is simply wrong and a great example of how stats don't tell you everything.

 

You're reading way too much into this...

 

If you want to make the argument that P/PA is not good enough to determine a batting eye, the logical explanation in Theriot's case is that, while he may have a good eye, pitchers throw him stuff right down the middle because they know he can't do any real damage with it.

[PrimeTime]

move theriot down to 8th as he has a good eye at the plate

 

Yes, the guy who took fewer pitches than anyone else on the team has a "good eye at the plate."

Theriot does have a good eye. The fact that his P/PA is last on the team is misleading. Most of his at bats came as the 2 hitter in the lineup. Batting in front of Lee, he naturally got a lot of good pitches to hit. Pitchers weren't going to throw him junk out of the zone (because they knew he had a good eye, and wouldn't swing at it) and walk him in front of Lee. They knew that he was a contact hitter that hits the ball on the ground a lot, so they threw him pitches to hit. You can fault Theriot for several things, but having a good eye is not one of them. All you have to do is watch a few games and you'll see that he knows the strike zone very well. Just looking at his P/PA and concluding that he doesn't have a good eye is simply wrong and a great example of how stats don't tell you everything.

 

You're reading way too much into this...

 

If you want to make the argument that P/PA is not good enough to determine a batting eye, the logical explanation in Theriot's case is that, while he may have a good eye, pitchers throw him stuff right down the middle because they know he can't do any real damage with it.

 

Pretty much..He tries to take everything the other way.You might as well put all 3 fielders in RF when he's up.

[Vanilla Ice]

Levine didn't mention Murton supposedly in the Roberts trade, which could be interesting.

 

The fact that Cedeno was mentioned and not Murton makes me think, that if Roberts were to come to the Cubs, that Lou would make DeRosa the starting SS.

[BigbadB]

Levine didn't mention Murton supposedly in the Roberts trade, which could be interesting.

 

The fact that Cedeno was mentioned and not Murton makes me think, that if Roberts were to come to the Cubs, that Lou would make DeRosa the starting SS.

 

While I would hope that would happen, I don't see it happening. Cubs management seems to think Theriot is the guy for the job at SS, and they have also made it sound as if they like DeRosa in a Super-Sub role.

[mdwilla]

Levine didn't mention Murton supposedly in the Roberts trade, which could be interesting.

 

The fact that Cedeno was mentioned and not Murton makes me think, that if Roberts were to come to the Cubs, that Lou would make DeRosa the starting SS.

 

While I would hope that would happen, I don't see it happening. Cubs management seems to think Theriot is the guy for the job at SS, and they have also made it sound as if they like DeRosa in a Super-Sub role.

 

I think we have to take a lot of what Hendry and Lou worth a grain of salt. For them to give an indication that there going a different route at shortstop right now without Roberts in the fold yet would be foolish.

 

Any interest in Alex Gonzalez from the Reds they have Keppinger waiting in the wings. Gonzo hit 16 homer runs last year in only 110 games. If his defense is as good as I remember he could provide the Cubs with 20 homer, 30 double power from short with plus defense .

 

 

Roberts

Fukodome

Lee

Ramirez

Soranio

Gonzalez

Soto

Pie

 

If Hendry found a way to add some more bench help and another starter I would be more than happy with his offseason.

[Bruno7481]

Levine didn't mention Murton supposedly in the Roberts trade, which could be interesting.

 

The fact that Cedeno was mentioned and not Murton makes me think, that if Roberts were to come to the Cubs, that Lou would make DeRosa the starting SS.

 

While I would hope that would happen, I don't see it happening. Cubs management seems to think Theriot is the guy for the job at SS, and they have also made it sound as if they like DeRosa in a Super-Sub role.

 

I think we have to take a lot of what Hendry and Lou worth a grain of salt. For them to give an indication that there going a different route at shortstop right now without Roberts in the fold yet would be foolish.

 

Any interest in Alex Gonzalez from the Reds they have Keppinger waiting in the wings. Gonzo hit 16 homer runs last year in only 110 games. If his defense is as good as I remember he could provide the Cubs with 20 homer, 30 double power from short with plus defense .

 

 

Roberts

Fukodome

Lee

Ramirez

Soranio

Gonzalez

Soto

Pie

 

If Hendry found a way to add some more bench help and another starter I would be more than happy with his offseason.

 

Keppinger has always been able to hit, he isn't known as quality defensive player. The Reds are planning on playing him at first base against lefties this year.

[Backtobanks]

Levine didn't mention Murton supposedly in the Roberts trade, which could be interesting.

 

Everybody always mentions that Murton would be Beane's kind of player. I wonder about Murton being included in a package for Blanton.

[badnews]

Oh come on. How did this deal go from Gallagher, Murton, and Patterson to Gallagher, Cedeno, and Marshall? That deal sucks.

[anabiono]

yeah...if we give up marshall for roberts...and we don't acquire another starter, i am going to be mighty mighty pissed

[badnews]

I am going to be pissed that we fiddled while the White Sox got Swisher, while we bumbled around and ended up paying more for Roberts, an inferior 2b, than the Tigers did for Renteria, the superior player and a shortstop to boot.

 

I think I am going to need blood pressure medication when 99% of people think the deal is like Scott Kazmir for Victor Zambrano (Devil Rays side).

[inari]

yeah...if we give up marshall for roberts...and we don't acquire another starter, i am going to be mighty mighty pissed

 

Let's not fool ourselves into thinking Marshall is more valuable than he is.

[badnews]

By all means, let us equivocate how (business as usual) compared to the good trades other teams are making, this proposal doesn't suck.