Momentum In Baseball

[SouthSideRyan]

I don't understand why something has to exist in baseball because it exists in football and basketball. This is what leads to a lot of poor analysis by mainstream media because they apply the principles of one sport to a different sport that is nothing like it.

 

Tell me why it exists in Football and Basketball and not Baseball?

 

Because, as I said earlier, baseball is a series of individual events. Basketball is continuous. Football's kinda in the middle as there are a ton of individual events going on within one big event, but there is no continuous play.

[CubColtPacer]

Hmm, well let's see if I can organize my thoughts on this one.

 

I definitely agree that momentum is an emotion. Sometimes it gives you more confidence that you can do anything you try to do, and sometimes it just increases your energy level.

 

I think momentum is much harder to track in baseball than football or basketball because I believe there are many more negative aspects to momentum in baseball than the other two sports. In basketball, momentum brings some extra energy that lets the team play hard constantly and have the confidence to make jump shots, which is key. In football especially on defense, momentum keeps defenders from being tired and keeps them flying to the football which improves performance.

 

In baseball, the confidence at the plate does help. However, energy level can be amped up to the point that focus is lost at the plate. A guy is more likely to swing at a 3-2 pitch trying to hit a ball hard when the crowd is standing up cheering, even if it's a few inches off of the plate. Momentum can help a team do more than normal, but it can also cause a team to try to do too much in every at-bat. For a pitcher, the effects on Zambrano when he feels all that extra energy is obvious. So there are both positive and negative effects of momentum in a baseball game, and the results of each at-bat are based so much on luck that momentum can be hard to quantify.

 

I think the positive effects of momentum can be seen more from game to game than inside a game itself. That's why teams can be hot for 2 weeks or cold for 2 weeks. That doesn't mean they won't come out for a game and just be horrible even during the middle of a hot streak, but it can mean that overall the team is feeling the effects of momentum, be it positive or negative momentum.

 

So momentum is definitely present, but it often can be so obscured by other factors that it is very difficult to predict and easily mistaken for other things.

[jjgman21]

An exogenous event that relaxes a team into playing to its abilities can certainly be characterized as a momentum-turner. When the Cubs were white-hot in the middle of the summer, players were playing expecting to win, and as such were playing at or above their overall ability level. If we say a player is locked in, why can we not say that a team of players collectively is locked in or has "momentum" on its side. Just because a team loses when it runs into another starting pitcher that is also locked in doesn't refute that the team collectively may have been playing loose, with confidence, and thus had momentum previously. Is this a question of semantics or are people arguing that baseline ability is the only factor in a player or team's game or series of games?

 

I think the mirrored site for nsbb is http://www.baselineabilityistheonlyfact ... fgames.com

[C.C.]

I don't understand why something has to exist in baseball because it exists in football and basketball. This is what leads to a lot of poor analysis by mainstream media because they apply the principles of one sport to a different sport that is nothing like it.

 

Tell me why it exists in Football and Basketball and not Baseball?

 

Because, as I said earlier, baseball is a series of individual events. Basketball is continuous. Football's kinda in the middle as there are a ton of individual events going on within one big event, but there is no continuous play.

 

So momentum can only happen when it's "Continous play"? Do you realize how silly this sounds?

[jjgman21]

I don't understand why something has to exist in baseball because it exists in football and basketball. This is what leads to a lot of poor analysis by mainstream media because they apply the principles of one sport to a different sport that is nothing like it.

 

Tell me why it exists in Football and Basketball and not Baseball?

 

Because, as I said earlier, baseball is a series of individual events. Basketball is continuous. Football's kinda in the middle as there are a ton of individual events going on within one big event, but there is no continuous play.

 

So momentum can only happen when it's "Continous play"? Do you realize how silly this sounds?

 

the Terps will be happy to hear that momentum doesn't exist in football.

[third eye]

An exogenous event that relaxes a team into playing to its abilities can certainly be characterized as a momentum-turner. When the Cubs were white-hot in the middle of the summer, players were playing expecting to win, and as such were playing at or above their overall ability level. If we say a player is locked in, why can we not say that a team of players collectively is locked in or has "momentum" on its side. Just because a team loses when it runs into another starting pitcher that is also locked in doesn't refute that the team collectively may have been playing loose, with confidence, and thus had momentum previously. Is this a question of semantics or are people arguing that baseline ability is the only factor in a player or team's game or series of games?

 

I think the mirrored site for nsbb is http://www.baselineabilityistheonlyfact ... fgames.com

 

ha, nice.

[Exile on Waveland]

I'm not sure momentum exists for baseball. I'm dubious that it does. However, it is certainly not a logical fallacy to think it exists in basketball and football but not in baseball. Baseball is not like other team sports. Momentum exists in basketball, football, etc. I doubt it really does in baseball.

[Soul]

I'm not sure momentum exists for baseball. I'm dubious that it does. However, it is certainly not a logical fallacy to think it exists in basketball and football but not in baseball. Baseball is not like other team sports. Momentum exists in basketball, football, etc. I doubt it really does in baseball.

 

A team responding positively or negatively to pressure, on the other hand, does.

[jjgman21]

I'm not sure momentum exists for baseball. I'm dubious that it does. However, it is certainly not a logical fallacy to think it exists in basketball and football but not in baseball. Baseball is not like other team sports. Momentum exists in basketball, football, etc. I doubt it really does in baseball.

 

since we are determining this by edict, I have experienced momentum shifts in darts, foosball, billiards, horseshoes, poker, golf, tiddly-winks, quarters, and pong (of the video and ping varieties). I have witnessed it in tennis, hockey, soccer, Australian rules football, hurling and curling. so why does it exist in just about everything but baseball?

[SABR Gamer]

Momentum in baseball exists in each individual game, but it does not carry over into each game. However, consistently winning in a row and coming through at the right time instills CONFIDENCE which allows it to occur more often. So momentum exists in individual games, and confidence exists over time.

[SouthSideRyan]

I'm not sure momentum exists for baseball. I'm dubious that it does. However, it is certainly not a logical fallacy to think it exists in basketball and football but not in baseball. Baseball is not like other team sports. Momentum exists in basketball, football, etc. I doubt it really does in baseball.

 

since we are determining this by edict, I have experienced momentum shifts in darts, foosball, billiards, horseshoes, poker, golf, tiddly-winks, quarters, and pong (of the video and ping varieties). I have witnessed it in tennis, hockey, soccer, Australian rules football, hurling and curling. so why does it exist in just about everything but baseball?

 

I have experience momentum not happening in all those things except tiddly winks becuase I wasn't born in the 50s.

 

Momentum as its been defined in this thread cannot be refuted. If a player carries over something from the past he had momentum and that's why he did it. If a player didn't carry it over, then there wasn't enough momentum to outweigh random chance and talent.

 

We can't possibly refute you who say momentum is real and exists in baseball because it only exists when you have defined it to exist.

[jjgman21]

I'm not sure momentum exists for baseball. I'm dubious that it does. However, it is certainly not a logical fallacy to think it exists in basketball and football but not in baseball. Baseball is not like other team sports. Momentum exists in basketball, football, etc. I doubt it really does in baseball.

 

since we are determining this by edict, I have experienced momentum shifts in darts, foosball, billiards, horseshoes, poker, golf, tiddly-winks, quarters, and pong (of the video and ping varieties). I have witnessed it in tennis, hockey, soccer, Australian rules football, hurling and curling. so why does it exist in just about everything but baseball?

 

I have experience momentum not happening in all those things except tiddly winks becuase I wasn't born in the 50s.

 

Momentum as its been defined in this thread cannot be refuted. If a player carries over something from the past he had momentum and that's why he did it. If a player didn't carry it over, then there wasn't enough momentum to outweigh random chance and talent.

 

We can't possibly refute you who say momentum is real and exists in baseball because it only exists when you have defined it to exist.

 

you've become so philosophical all of a sudden. before it only existed in games with continuity. so which is it? does it only exist if we define it to exist, or does it only exist in basketball, foosball, hockey, soccer, hurling, Australian rules football, and hurling due to the mystical capacities of 'continuity.'

[David]

Say the Cubs are playing the Cardinals and are tied at 3 in the top of the 7th inning at Wrigley Field. The bases are loaded and Pujols hits a liner into the right-center gap. Out of nowhere, Jones dives and makes the catch. The crowd goes nuts, his teammates are on the field in front of the dugout waiting for him to trot in so they can all high five him. You don't think he's pumped up? So two minutes later he has a ton of adrenaline running through his body, and he leads off the bottom of the inning with a HR onto Waveland Avenue. Is that a result of momentum or is it completely random?

 

What would you call it if he came up and struck out?

A typical at bat for him.

 

Obviously the player isn't going to hit a HR every time. He's human. But I don't see how, in that scenario, you can't see how momentum can be a factor.

 

Bottom line... baseball players are human. People are affected by momentum. As a result, so are baseball players.

 

I still find it funny that some people believe mometum is possible in basketball and not baseball. It's stupid.

 

It's really not.

[David]

Say the Cubs are playing the Cardinals and are tied at 3 in the top of the 7th inning at Wrigley Field. The bases are loaded and Pujols hits a liner into the right-center gap. Out of nowhere, Jones dives and makes the catch. The crowd goes nuts, his teammates are on the field in front of the dugout waiting for him to trot in so they can all high five him. You don't think he's pumped up? So two minutes later he has a ton of adrenaline running through his body, and he leads off the bottom of the inning with a HR onto Waveland Avenue. Is that a result of momentum or is it completely random?

 

What would you call it if he came up and struck out?

A typical at bat for him.

 

Obviously the player isn't going to hit a HR every time. He's human. But I don't see how, in that scenario, you can't see how momentum can be a factor.

 

Bottom line... baseball players are human. People are affected by momentum. As a result, so are baseball players.

 

I still find it funny that some people believe mometum is possible in basketball and not baseball. It's stupid.

 

I find it funny that you see some sort of connection between basketball and baseball. Not all sports are the same. Is there momentum in anything that is some sort of competitive activity?

 

YES! Of course there is! Why not! You can't pick and choose what sports use momentum and what don't.

 

What?

 

Baseball is a completely different game from football or basketball. You don't see how the nature of one game, its rules, the skills it employs, etc. can make it more or less amenable to any possible effects of momentum?

 

This isn't black and white. It isn't, "All sports have it," or "No sports do."

[Fro]

Momentum definitely exists in baseball, but it's not nearly as big of a factor as it is in football or especially basketball since baseball's based on individual play and a degree of luck. And you definitely can have momentum within any frame of time, over part of an inning, 5 innings, or 15 games.

[haltz]

Hot hand stuff and streaks aren't very predictive. Just another sabermetric finding that makes the game less interesting or romantic to some, so they'll ignore it, while it makes baseball more interesting to others. It depends on your point of view whether you dismiss that or not.

 

Teams are hot until they are not, and vice versa. The hindsight proclamation as to why can't really be refuted, but if it's valid it should be predictive. Players certainly feel like momentum is a real thing. Everyone's probably felt "locked in" doing something. Did you feel locked in because you were performing well, or were you performing well because you were locked in? In baseball I think it's usually the former.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I don't understand why something has to exist in baseball because it exists in football and basketball. This is what leads to a lot of poor analysis by mainstream media because they apply the principles of one sport to a different sport that is nothing like it.

 

Tell me why it exists in Football and Basketball and not Baseball?

 

Because football and basketball are sports where physical exertion is a major component of success. Baseball is a sport where extra physical exertion gives you little.

[David]

I don't understand why something has to exist in baseball because it exists in football and basketball. This is what leads to a lot of poor analysis by mainstream media because they apply the principles of one sport to a different sport that is nothing like it.

 

Tell me why it exists in Football and Basketball and not Baseball?

 

Because football and basketball are sports where physical exertion is a major component of success. Baseball is a sport where extra physical exertion gives you little.

 

In fact, it's probably counterproductive. Added strength or determination probably would hurt a baseball player more than it would help.

[Careless]

Yes, it does.

 

Explain how it does in baseball? Its more about who you are playing. The Brewers limped into this series with the Cardinals after 2 devastating defeats. They seem to not be having a problem after that, why? Because the Cards pitching staff is terrible and they are a AAA offense, it has nothing to do with momentum.

when you say "more about who you are playing" you are saying "momentum does matter"

Anyway, I'll say there's probably a rather small effect from momentum.

[MPrior]

My two thoughts:

 

1.: No reasonable discussion can really be made until everyone agrees on a definition of "momentum."

 

2.: There are a couple of people who are talking in extreme black and white here, and in all cases, there's little evidence to support either side. People who are saying momentum "doesn't exist" in baseball are probably wrong, except for a very limiting definition of momentum. Additionally, cubbiechris, you're being a bit ridiculous. You've repeatedly stated, with absolutely no explanation or evidence, that the idea that momentum could exist or be prevalent in one sport and not another is silly.

 

Is baseball different than other sports?

 

Yes.

 

Could it therefore have different characteristics, and thus be different with regards to momentum?

 

Yes.

 

I'm not saying it IS, I'm just saying that to deny that it's possible is a direct contradiction of the obvious.

 

My opinion, and it's nothing more than an educated guess, to be honest, is that momentum exists to some degree, but its effect on baseball is pretty minimal, perhaps to the point of being neglible. It's almost certainly less powerful than in football and basketball, for reasons that have already been pointed out.

[Pinktermite]

I think there is an extreme UNDER-empasis on the word 'luck' in this thread. Momentum doesn't matter much when you face Willis or Webb or Clemens when he's on his game, it's why teams with better pitching (whether due to luck or momentum or whatever) win World Series titles...mostly...it's what makes baseball so beautiful.

[C.C.]

Additionally, cubbiechris, you're being a bit ridiculous. You've repeatedly stated, with absolutely no explanation or evidence, that the idea that momentum could exist or be prevalent in one sport and not another is silly.

 

 

My opinion, and it's nothing more than an educated guess, to be honest, is that momentum exists to some degree, but its effect on baseball is pretty minimal, perhaps to the point of being neglible.

 

So you say I'm being ridiculous for saying that momentum could exist in other sports including baseball and then you state that momentum exist to "some degree" in baseball, but is "pretty minimal" to the point of being negible with no evidence nor explanation. Talk about calling the kettle black.

 

Do me a favor ask a baseball player if he believes in momentum and see what he says.

[CuseCubFan69]

I think it's just a change of a players frame of mind. It's a possible adrenaline flow that brings or flows the blood and gives more oxygen to the brain.

[soapy]

I would say momentum exists, but I wouldn't say it really makes a player or team play better. As someone else said, it's more mental or emotional than physical. I don't think you can expect a team or individual to perform better simply based on momentum.

[Keener98]

Yes, it does.

 

Explain how it does in baseball? Its more about who you are playing. The Brewers limped into this series with the Cardinals after 2 devastating defeats. They seem to not be having a problem after that, why? Because the Cards pitching staff is terrible and they are a AAA offense, it has nothing to do with momentum.

when you say "more about who you are playing" you are saying "momentum does matter"

Anyway, I'll say there's probably a rather small effect from momentum.

 

How so? The Cards have a terrible pitching staff and offense the Brewers should win, how is that saying momentum does matter?