Momentum In Baseball

[Mizzou]

Say the Cubs are playing the Cardinals and are tied at 3 in the top of the 7th inning at Wrigley Field. The bases are loaded and Pujols hits a liner into the right-center gap. Out of nowhere, Jones dives and makes the catch. The crowd goes nuts, his teammates are on the field in front of the dugout waiting for him to trot in so they can all high five him. You don't think he's pumped up? So two minutes later he has a ton of adrenaline running through his body, and he leads off the bottom of the inning with a HR onto Waveland Avenue. Is that a result of momentum or is it completely random?

 

What would you call it if he came up and struck out?

A typical at bat for him.

 

Obviously the player isn't going to hit a HR every time. He's human. But I don't see how, in that scenario, you can't see how momentum can be a factor.

 

Bottom line... baseball players are human. People are affected by momentum. As a result, so are baseball players.

[C.C.]

Say the Cubs are playing the Cardinals and are tied at 3 in the top of the 7th inning at Wrigley Field. The bases are loaded and Pujols hits a liner into the right-center gap. Out of nowhere, Jones dives and makes the catch. The crowd goes nuts, his teammates are on the field in front of the dugout waiting for him to trot in so they can all high five him. You don't think he's pumped up? So two minutes later he has a ton of adrenaline running through his body, and he leads off the bottom of the inning with a HR onto Waveland Avenue. Is that a result of momentum or is it completely random?

 

What would you call it if he came up and struck out?

A typical at bat for him.

 

Obviously the player isn't going to hit a HR every time. He's human. But I don't see how, in that scenario, you can't see how momentum can be a factor.

 

Bottom line... baseball players are human. People are affected by momentum. As a result, so are baseball players.

 

I still find it funny that some people believe mometum is possible in basketball and not baseball. It's stupid.

[Keener98]

2003 ALCS

2004 WS

2005 WS

2006 Post-season

 

I'm not saying momentum can't switch, or be a tiny factor. But momentum and crowd turns the 2003 ALCS from a sweep to a RedSox comeback. It turns Jeff Weaver into a post-season hero.

 

It can and does exist. Not always 100% responsible. And it can get shut down by tomorrow's pitcher.

 

How can you say mometum is what caused all that? Teams get hot, pitchers get hot, how can you say that its caused by momentum?

 

Being hot, is because the team did their job, its not about momentum. Like you said its all about that next days starter.

 

I'm not saying it caused it. Obviously momentum isn't real. IMO, its a emotion. You have a good play or two - now you start to get excited, you start to believe more, the crowd gets excited, the other team gets rattled, etc. There is no such thing as momentum but IMO opinion it describes a mindset change for the players involved - on both sides.

 

Certainly you believe in crowd noise helping right? That is part of momentum. And it can be shut down very quickly. Like a 3 run homer when you are down 4 in the 9th.

 

No I dont believe crowd noise helps really. Does it probably keep the team more alive, yea, but does it help them get a hit? Throw a strike? Probably not. Ive seen Wrigley loud as hell, only to watch a ball 4 go by and us walk in a run, or us strike out with a runner on 3rd.

[Keener98]

Say the Cubs are playing the Cardinals and are tied at 3 in the top of the 7th inning at Wrigley Field. The bases are loaded and Pujols hits a liner into the right-center gap. Out of nowhere, Jones dives and makes the catch. The crowd goes nuts, his teammates are on the field in front of the dugout waiting for him to trot in so they can all high five him. You don't think he's pumped up? So two minutes later he has a ton of adrenaline running through his body, and he leads off the bottom of the inning with a HR onto Waveland Avenue. Is that a result of momentum or is it completely random?

 

What would you call it if he came up and struck out?

A typical at bat for him.

 

Obviously the player isn't going to hit a HR every time. He's human. But I don't see how, in that scenario, you can't see how momentum can be a factor.

 

Bottom line... baseball players are human. People are affected by momentum. As a result, so are baseball players.

 

I still find it funny that some people believe mometum is possible in basketball and not baseball. It's stupid.

 

No its not

[Faceman]

Say the Cubs are playing the Cardinals and are tied at 3 in the top of the 7th inning at Wrigley Field. The bases are loaded and Pujols hits a liner into the right-center gap. Out of nowhere, Jones dives and makes the catch. The crowd goes nuts, his teammates are on the field in front of the dugout waiting for him to trot in so they can all high five him. You don't think he's pumped up? So two minutes later he has a ton of adrenaline running through his body, and he leads off the bottom of the inning with a HR onto Waveland Avenue. Is that a result of momentum or is it completely random?

 

What would you call it if he came up and struck out?

 

That the momentum created from the diving play was not enough to change his AB.

 

We look at baseball like it's all a science. With all the sabr-stuff, you like to think that if you have the better numbers, then you win. Baseball is very much luck, moreso than any of us would like. Momentum that causes the player to believe a little bit more cannot and does not always overcome a devastating 0-2 pitch.

[SouthSideRyan]

Say the Cubs are playing the Cardinals and are tied at 3 in the top of the 7th inning at Wrigley Field. The bases are loaded and Pujols hits a liner into the right-center gap. Out of nowhere, Jones dives and makes the catch. The crowd goes nuts, his teammates are on the field in front of the dugout waiting for him to trot in so they can all high five him. You don't think he's pumped up? So two minutes later he has a ton of adrenaline running through his body, and he leads off the bottom of the inning with a HR onto Waveland Avenue. Is that a result of momentum or is it completely random?

 

What would you call it if he came up and struck out?

A typical at bat for him.

 

Obviously the player isn't going to hit a HR every time. He's human. But I don't see how, in that scenario, you can't see how momentum can be a factor.

 

Bottom line... baseball players are human. People are affected by momentum. As a result, so are baseball players.

 

I still find it funny that some people believe mometum is possible in basketball and not baseball. It's stupid.

 

I find it funny that you see some sort of connection between basketball and baseball. Not all sports are the same. Is there momentum in anything that is some sort of competitive activity?

[Mizzou]

Alright keener, well state your case. You're the one that made the declarative statement that momentum is overrated and ignorant and doesn't exist.

 

Why?

[C.C.]

Say the Cubs are playing the Cardinals and are tied at 3 in the top of the 7th inning at Wrigley Field. The bases are loaded and Pujols hits a liner into the right-center gap. Out of nowhere, Jones dives and makes the catch. The crowd goes nuts, his teammates are on the field in front of the dugout waiting for him to trot in so they can all high five him. You don't think he's pumped up? So two minutes later he has a ton of adrenaline running through his body, and he leads off the bottom of the inning with a HR onto Waveland Avenue. Is that a result of momentum or is it completely random?

 

What would you call it if he came up and struck out?

A typical at bat for him.

 

Obviously the player isn't going to hit a HR every time. He's human. But I don't see how, in that scenario, you can't see how momentum can be a factor.

 

Bottom line... baseball players are human. People are affected by momentum. As a result, so are baseball players.

 

I still find it funny that some people believe mometum is possible in basketball and not baseball. It's stupid.

 

No its not

 

Yes it is! Again if Micheal Jordan goes off and hits 50 points or ARAM hits 4 homeruns. Both are feeling it and have momentum. Why is this different?

[Faceman]

2003 ALCS

2004 WS

2005 WS

2006 Post-season

 

I'm not saying momentum can't switch, or be a tiny factor. But momentum and crowd turns the 2003 ALCS from a sweep to a RedSox comeback. It turns Jeff Weaver into a post-season hero.

 

It can and does exist. Not always 100% responsible. And it can get shut down by tomorrow's pitcher.

 

How can you say mometum is what caused all that? Teams get hot, pitchers get hot, how can you say that its caused by momentum?

 

Being hot, is because the team did their job, its not about momentum. Like you said its all about that next days starter.

 

I'm not saying it caused it. Obviously momentum isn't real. IMO, its a emotion. You have a good play or two - now you start to get excited, you start to believe more, the crowd gets excited, the other team gets rattled, etc. There is no such thing as momentum but IMO opinion it describes a mindset change for the players involved - on both sides.

 

Certainly you believe in crowd noise helping right? That is part of momentum. And it can be shut down very quickly. Like a 3 run homer when you are down 4 in the 9th.

 

No I dont believe crowd noise helps really. Does it probably keep the team more alive, yea, but does it help them get a hit? Throw a strike? Probably not. Ive seen Wrigley loud as hell, only to watch a ball 4 go by and us walk in a run, or us strike out with a runner on 3rd.

 

It's not all or nothing.

 

If a player has a 1/3 chance of getting a hit, maybe momentum makes it 1/2.5 - that's still more likely to not get a hit.

[SouthSideRyan]

Say the Cubs are playing the Cardinals and are tied at 3 in the top of the 7th inning at Wrigley Field. The bases are loaded and Pujols hits a liner into the right-center gap. Out of nowhere, Jones dives and makes the catch. The crowd goes nuts, his teammates are on the field in front of the dugout waiting for him to trot in so they can all high five him. You don't think he's pumped up? So two minutes later he has a ton of adrenaline running through his body, and he leads off the bottom of the inning with a HR onto Waveland Avenue. Is that a result of momentum or is it completely random?

 

What would you call it if he came up and struck out?

 

That the momentum created from the diving play was not enough to change his AB.

 

We look at baseball like it's all a science. With all the sabr-stuff, you like to think that if you have the better numbers, then you win. Baseball is very much luck, moreso than any of us would like. Momentum that causes the player to believe a little bit more cannot and does not always overcome a devastating 0-2 pitch.

 

Isn't that agreeing that momentum isn't predicative, and is only attributable after the fact? If momentum gets the credit for that Jones HR, what gets the credit for the "meaningless" HRs Jones hits?

[C.C.]

Say the Cubs are playing the Cardinals and are tied at 3 in the top of the 7th inning at Wrigley Field. The bases are loaded and Pujols hits a liner into the right-center gap. Out of nowhere, Jones dives and makes the catch. The crowd goes nuts, his teammates are on the field in front of the dugout waiting for him to trot in so they can all high five him. You don't think he's pumped up? So two minutes later he has a ton of adrenaline running through his body, and he leads off the bottom of the inning with a HR onto Waveland Avenue. Is that a result of momentum or is it completely random?

 

What would you call it if he came up and struck out?

A typical at bat for him.

 

Obviously the player isn't going to hit a HR every time. He's human. But I don't see how, in that scenario, you can't see how momentum can be a factor.

 

Bottom line... baseball players are human. People are affected by momentum. As a result, so are baseball players.

 

I still find it funny that some people believe mometum is possible in basketball and not baseball. It's stupid.

 

I find it funny that you see some sort of connection between basketball and baseball. Not all sports are the same. Is there momentum in anything that is some sort of competitive activity?

 

YES! Of course there is! Why not! You can't pick and choose what sports use momentum and what don't.

[third eye]

An exogenous event that relaxes a team into playing to its abilities can certainly be characterized as a momentum-turner. When the Cubs were white-hot in the middle of the summer, players were playing expecting to win, and as such were playing at or above their overall ability level. If we say a player is locked in, why can we not say that a team of players collectively is locked in or has "momentum" on its side. Just because a team loses when it runs into another starting pitcher that is also locked in doesn't refute that the team collectively may have been playing loose, with confidence, and thus had momentum previously. Is this a question of semantics or are people arguing that baseline ability is the only factor in a player or team's game or series of games?

[Faceman]

Say the Cubs are playing the Cardinals and are tied at 3 in the top of the 7th inning at Wrigley Field. The bases are loaded and Pujols hits a liner into the right-center gap. Out of nowhere, Jones dives and makes the catch. The crowd goes nuts, his teammates are on the field in front of the dugout waiting for him to trot in so they can all high five him. You don't think he's pumped up? So two minutes later he has a ton of adrenaline running through his body, and he leads off the bottom of the inning with a HR onto Waveland Avenue. Is that a result of momentum or is it completely random?

 

What would you call it if he came up and struck out?

A typical at bat for him.

 

Obviously the player isn't going to hit a HR every time. He's human. But I don't see how, in that scenario, you can't see how momentum can be a factor.

 

Bottom line... baseball players are human. People are affected by momentum. As a result, so are baseball players.

 

I still find it funny that some people believe mometum is possible in basketball and not baseball. It's stupid.

 

I find it funny that you see some sort of connection between basketball and baseball. Not all sports are the same. Is there momentum in anything that is some sort of competitive activity?

 

If you don't believe in momentum, then you don't. Baseball vs basketball doesn't make sense.

 

Hell momentum probably exists in chess if a surprise move gets in the oppositions head.

[SouthSideRyan]

Say the Cubs are playing the Cardinals and are tied at 3 in the top of the 7th inning at Wrigley Field. The bases are loaded and Pujols hits a liner into the right-center gap. Out of nowhere, Jones dives and makes the catch. The crowd goes nuts, his teammates are on the field in front of the dugout waiting for him to trot in so they can all high five him. You don't think he's pumped up? So two minutes later he has a ton of adrenaline running through his body, and he leads off the bottom of the inning with a HR onto Waveland Avenue. Is that a result of momentum or is it completely random?

 

What would you call it if he came up and struck out?

A typical at bat for him.

 

Obviously the player isn't going to hit a HR every time. He's human. But I don't see how, in that scenario, you can't see how momentum can be a factor.

 

Bottom line... baseball players are human. People are affected by momentum. As a result, so are baseball players.

 

I still find it funny that some people believe mometum is possible in basketball and not baseball. It's stupid.

 

No its not

 

Yes it is! Again if Micheal Jordan goes off and hits 50 points or ARAM hits 4 homeruns. Both are feeling it and have momentum. Why is this different?

 

Again attributable after the fact, and your examples aren't even what I'd define as momentum. If you have a great game it's automatically momentum? What's enough to declare it momentum. If you hit 2 HRs to start the game, you'd assume you have momentum, why wouldn't you hit HRs in your next couple ABs then?

[Keener98]

Alright keener, well state your case. You're the one that made the declarative statement that momentum is overrated and ignorant and doesn't exist.

 

Why?

 

Have I not been doing that in this thread?

 

Momentum is something that is basically like clutch, it can always be said after the fact, but never before. Its more about who you are playing, whos pitching, etc... then some fairy tale imaginary thing called momentum. People are going to say the Brewers have momentum now, but what happened to those devastating defeats against the Braves? They started facing a new team, with crappy pitchers, and an offense killed by injuries.

[C.C.]

Say the Cubs are playing the Cardinals and are tied at 3 in the top of the 7th inning at Wrigley Field. The bases are loaded and Pujols hits a liner into the right-center gap. Out of nowhere, Jones dives and makes the catch. The crowd goes nuts, his teammates are on the field in front of the dugout waiting for him to trot in so they can all high five him. You don't think he's pumped up? So two minutes later he has a ton of adrenaline running through his body, and he leads off the bottom of the inning with a HR onto Waveland Avenue. Is that a result of momentum or is it completely random?

 

What would you call it if he came up and struck out?

A typical at bat for him.

 

Obviously the player isn't going to hit a HR every time. He's human. But I don't see how, in that scenario, you can't see how momentum can be a factor.

 

Bottom line... baseball players are human. People are affected by momentum. As a result, so are baseball players.

 

I still find it funny that some people believe mometum is possible in basketball and not baseball. It's stupid.

 

I find it funny that you see some sort of connection between basketball and baseball. Not all sports are the same. Is there momentum in anything that is some sort of competitive activity?

 

If you don't believe in momentum, then you don't. Baseball vs basketball doesn't make sense.

 

Hell momentum probably exists in chess if a surprise move gets in the oppositions head.

 

No I do belive in momentum. I was laughing at the people who believe it exsits in Basketball and not Baseball. It's senseless.

[Mizzou]

Alright keener, well state your case. You're the one that made the declarative statement that momentum is overrated and ignorant and doesn't exist.

 

Why?

 

Have I not been doing that in this thread?

 

Momentum is something that is basically like clutch, it can always be said after the fact, but never before. Its more about who you are playing, whos pitching, etc... then some fairy tale imaginary thing called momentum. People are going to say the Brewers have momentum now, but what happened to those devastating defeats against the Braves? They started facing a new team, with crappy pitchers, and an offense killed by injuries.

So does momentum exist in life then, and all other sports other than baseball? I'm not following the logic that it exists, it exists in football and basketball, but it doesn't exist in baseball. As someone else said, it either exists or it doesn't.

[C.C.]

Alright keener, well state your case. You're the one that made the declarative statement that momentum is overrated and ignorant and doesn't exist.

 

Why?

 

Have I not been doing that in this thread?

 

Momentum is something that is basically like clutch, it can always be said after the fact, but never before. Its more about who you are playing, whos pitching, etc... then some fairy tale imaginary thing called momentum. People are going to say the Brewers have momentum now, but what happened to those devastating defeats against the Braves? They started facing a new team, with crappy pitchers, and an offense killed by injuries.

 

Momentum could last 1 inning or 10 games. If people could control momentum they would never lose and hit 1.000. There is all kinds of ways you lose momentum. You said that it exsist in Basketball and not baseball. Okay let me ask you then if the Bulls win the first 10 games and lose the next 10 isn't that momentum gained and loss? See where I'm going? Momentum is going to come and go in sports.

Edited September 26, 2007 by C.C.

[Faceman]

Say the Cubs are playing the Cardinals and are tied at 3 in the top of the 7th inning at Wrigley Field. The bases are loaded and Pujols hits a liner into the right-center gap. Out of nowhere, Jones dives and makes the catch. The crowd goes nuts, his teammates are on the field in front of the dugout waiting for him to trot in so they can all high five him. You don't think he's pumped up? So two minutes later he has a ton of adrenaline running through his body, and he leads off the bottom of the inning with a HR onto Waveland Avenue. Is that a result of momentum or is it completely random?

 

What would you call it if he came up and struck out?

 

That the momentum created from the diving play was not enough to change his AB.

 

We look at baseball like it's all a science. With all the sabr-stuff, you like to think that if you have the better numbers, then you win. Baseball is very much luck, moreso than any of us would like. Momentum that causes the player to believe a little bit more cannot and does not always overcome a devastating 0-2 pitch.

 

Isn't that agreeing that momentum isn't predicative, and is only attributable after the fact? If momentum gets the credit for that Jones HR, what gets the credit for the "meaningless" HRs Jones hits?

 

It doesn't get credit for the HR. It's gets credit for helping. He may have homered, he may not have. The AB is a function of the pitcher's skill, hitters skill, and the situation. Momentum can change the situation in favor of one or the other.. Luck rides on top of it all. It's not just one thing.

[Faceman]

Say the Cubs are playing the Cardinals and are tied at 3 in the top of the 7th inning at Wrigley Field. The bases are loaded and Pujols hits a liner into the right-center gap. Out of nowhere, Jones dives and makes the catch. The crowd goes nuts, his teammates are on the field in front of the dugout waiting for him to trot in so they can all high five him. You don't think he's pumped up? So two minutes later he has a ton of adrenaline running through his body, and he leads off the bottom of the inning with a HR onto Waveland Avenue. Is that a result of momentum or is it completely random?

 

What would you call it if he came up and struck out?

A typical at bat for him.

 

Obviously the player isn't going to hit a HR every time. He's human. But I don't see how, in that scenario, you can't see how momentum can be a factor.

 

Bottom line... baseball players are human. People are affected by momentum. As a result, so are baseball players.

 

I still find it funny that some people believe mometum is possible in basketball and not baseball. It's stupid.

 

I find it funny that you see some sort of connection between basketball and baseball. Not all sports are the same. Is there momentum in anything that is some sort of competitive activity?

 

If you don't believe in momentum, then you don't. Baseball vs basketball doesn't make sense.

 

Hell momentum probably exists in chess if a surprise move gets in the oppositions head.

 

No I do belive in momentum. I was laughing at the people who believe it exsits in Basketball and not Baseball. It's senseless.

 

Sorry - I meant to quote SSR. I agree with you 100%

[Keener98]

Alright keener, well state your case. You're the one that made the declarative statement that momentum is overrated and ignorant and doesn't exist.

 

Why?

 

Have I not been doing that in this thread?

 

Momentum is something that is basically like clutch, it can always be said after the fact, but never before. Its more about who you are playing, whos pitching, etc... then some fairy tale imaginary thing called momentum. People are going to say the Brewers have momentum now, but what happened to those devastating defeats against the Braves? They started facing a new team, with crappy pitchers, and an offense killed by injuries.

 

Momentum could last 1 inning or 10 games. If people could control momentum they would never lose and hit 1.000. There is all kinds of ways you lose momentum. You said that it exsist in Basketball and not baseball. Okay let me ask you then if the Bulls win the first 10 games and lose the next 10 isn't that momentum gained and loss? See where I'm going? Momentum is going to come and go in sports.

 

Sorry Ive got to go to work, Ill respond to this in the morning. I think its definatly an interesting convo to try and get the people off the ledge at least for awhile lol.

[SouthSideRyan]

You did quote me faceman.

[SouthSideRyan]

I don't understand why something has to exist in baseball because it exists in football and basketball. This is what leads to a lot of poor analysis by mainstream media because they apply the principles of one sport to a different sport that is nothing like it.

[UK1679666180]

Momentum is more of an individual thing in baseball compared to other sports. Of course when it's a pitcher, it usually means he is throwing well and can shut down more offenses. Willis got in a good rhythm, mixed his pitches well, and had one of the biggest strike zones I've seen. I'm usually pro-larger K zones, but that was nuts. Was it momentum? Nah.

 

You don't coach for it or against it. Sometimes players press or relax, it's human nature.

[C.C.]

I don't understand why something has to exist in baseball because it exists in football and basketball. This is what leads to a lot of poor analysis by mainstream media because they apply the principles of one sport to a different sport that is nothing like it.

 

Tell me why it exists in Football and Basketball and not Baseball?