Momentum In Baseball

[Keener98]

Additionally, cubbiechris, you're being a bit ridiculous. You've repeatedly stated, with absolutely no explanation or evidence, that the idea that momentum could exist or be prevalent in one sport and not another is silly.

 

 

My opinion, and it's nothing more than an educated guess, to be honest, is that momentum exists to some degree, but its effect on baseball is pretty minimal, perhaps to the point of being neglible.

 

So you say I'm being ridiculous for saying that momentum could exist in other sports including baseball and then you state that momentum exist to "some degree" in baseball, but is "pretty minimal" to the point of being negible with no evidence nor explanation. Talk about calling the kettle black.

 

Do me a favor ask a baseball player if he believes in momentum and see what he says.

 

What does that matter? Its been so cliched throughout baseball that yes, most baseball players will say they believe in it. But most of those same players will also tell you wins for a pitcher means something, and Juan Pierre is good.

[CubmanPi]

Whether or not it actually exists, the discussion of momentum in baseball is usually a Joe Morganism resorted to by commentators when they need to fill time and don't have anything better with which to fill it. Discussion of momentum ranks up there with confidence, consistency, heart, gamer, grit, and desire to win. These are all things which may or may not exist, but that are discussed by people who wish to analyze the game under terms and conditions with which they have experience, and they tend to get blown way out of proportion as a result.

[Keener98]

Whether or not it actually exists, the discussion of momentum in baseball is usually a Joe Morganism resorted to by commentators when they need to fill time and don't have anything better with which to fill it. Discussion of momentum ranks up there with confidence, consistency, heart, gamer, grit, and desire to win. These are all things which may or may not exist, but that are discussed by people who wish to analyze the game under terms and conditions with which they have experience, and they tend to get blown way out of proportion as a result.

 

Exactly, that was my main reason for bringing this up. Last night during the Cards game, the Cards announcers started saying the Brewers had a ton of momentum heading into these last 5 games. Its such a cliche in baseball, and gets talked about way too much, for as little effect it has, if any.

[David]

Additionally, cubbiechris, you're being a bit ridiculous. You've repeatedly stated, with absolutely no explanation or evidence, that the idea that momentum could exist or be prevalent in one sport and not another is silly.

 

 

My opinion, and it's nothing more than an educated guess, to be honest, is that momentum exists to some degree, but its effect on baseball is pretty minimal, perhaps to the point of being neglible.

 

So you say I'm being ridiculous for saying that momentum could exist in other sports including baseball and then you state that momentum exist to "some degree" in baseball, but is "pretty minimal" to the point of being negible with no evidence nor explanation. Talk about calling the kettle black.

 

Do me a favor ask a baseball player if he believes in momentum and see what he says.

 

Baseball players believe a lot of things to be true that aren't. Most of them aren't the smartest guys on earth.

 

Ask a baseball player if a corked bat is helpful. Ask certain baseball players if sliding into first base is a good idea. Etc.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Additionally, cubbiechris, you're being a bit ridiculous. You've repeatedly stated, with absolutely no explanation or evidence, that the idea that momentum could exist or be prevalent in one sport and not another is silly.

 

 

My opinion, and it's nothing more than an educated guess, to be honest, is that momentum exists to some degree, but its effect on baseball is pretty minimal, perhaps to the point of being neglible.

 

So you say I'm being ridiculous for saying that momentum could exist in other sports including baseball and then you state that momentum exist to "some degree" in baseball, but is "pretty minimal" to the point of being negible with no evidence nor explanation. Talk about calling the kettle black.

 

Do me a favor ask a baseball player if he believes in momentum and see what he says.

 

Baseball players believe a lot of things to be true that aren't. Most of them aren't the smartest guys on earth.

 

Ask a baseball player if a corked bat is helpful. Ask certain baseball players if sliding into first base is a good idea. Etc.

 

some of them wear the same pair of unwashed underwear every game -- there you have it

[CubinNY]

Momentum

 

http://www.glenbrook.k12.il.us/GBSSCI/PHYS/CLASS/momentum/u4l1a.html

 

It's a sports analogy to a term in physics. It doesn't exist in the real world except when talking about mass and velocity. It's like saying a dog has a personality or a robot has behavior.

 

When people use the term momentum in sports they are not talking about the same type of momentum in physics. They are talking about several discrete things occurring in a chain that have a favorable outcome to one side or another. These favorable outcomes are neither predictible nor measurable. If a guy strikes out the side and then his team gets a run in their next AB, can we predict from that series of events that the pitcher will continue to throw scoreless innings? Obviously, the answer is no.

 

Sorry for all you romatics out there, momentum is just a bad sports analogy.

[BigbadB]

Whether or not it actually exists, the discussion of momentum in baseball is usually a Joe Morganism resorted to by commentators when they need to fill time and don't have anything better with which to fill it. Discussion of momentum ranks up there with confidence, consistency, heart, gamer, grit, and desire to win. These are all things which may or may not exist, but that are discussed by people who wish to analyze the game under terms and conditions with which they have experience, and they tend to get blown way out of proportion as a result.

 

Momentum is just a word people like to throw out there to describe the changing of the guard. You really can't define it in baseball, because it really doesn't exist.

 

If momentum was something that is truly real, please explain why the Mets scored 6 runs in the 9th inning, only to lose the game by 1 run.

 

Did they somehow lose momentum? Wouldn't momentum highten as you get closer to your goal?

 

If momentum was something that was truly real, why did Lee get stranded at 1b last night in the 9th inning? Wouldn't the Cubs currently have much more momentum pull right now than the Marlins? Why didn't someone follow up Monroe's HR with another one?

 

Skill, luck, timing, focus and exploiting the weaknesses of the opponent are probably 5 of the biggest factors in success and failure in a baseball game or series of baseball games.

 

Momentum is just a feel good word that play by play guys and journalists like to use for filler between pitches or games.

[C.C.]

Whether or not it actually exists, the discussion of momentum in baseball is usually a Joe Morganism resorted to by commentators when they need to fill time and don't have anything better with which to fill it. Discussion of momentum ranks up there with confidence, consistency, heart, gamer, grit, and desire to win. These are all things which may or may not exist, but that are discussed by people who wish to analyze the game under terms and conditions with which they have experience, and they tend to get blown way out of proportion as a result.

 

Momentum is just a word people like to throw out there to describe the changing of the guard. You really can't define it in baseball, because it really doesn't exist.

 

If momentum was something that is truly real, please explain why the Mets scored 6 runs in the 9th inning, only to lose the game by 1 run.

 

Did they somehow lose momentum? Wouldn't momentum highten as you get closer to your goal?

 

If momentum was something that was truly real, why did Lee get stranded at 1b last night in the 9th inning? Wouldn't the Cubs currently have much more momentum pull right now than the Marlins? Why didn't someone follow up Monroe's HR with another one?

 

Skill, luck, timing, focus and exploiting the weaknesses of the opponent are probably 5 of the biggest factors in success and failure in a baseball game or series of baseball games.

 

Momentum is just a feel good word that play by play guys and journalists like to use for filler between pitches or games.

 

Isn't it just as easy to lose momentum then to gain it? How is Momentum measured by win and loses? That's like saying in baseketball when a team goes on a run and scores 10 straight points, how come they stopped at 10?

[David]

Additionally, cubbiechris, you're being a bit ridiculous. You've repeatedly stated, with absolutely no explanation or evidence, that the idea that momentum could exist or be prevalent in one sport and not another is silly.

 

 

My opinion, and it's nothing more than an educated guess, to be honest, is that momentum exists to some degree, but its effect on baseball is pretty minimal, perhaps to the point of being neglible.

 

So you say I'm being ridiculous for saying that momentum could exist in other sports including baseball and then you state that momentum exist to "some degree" in baseball, but is "pretty minimal" to the point of being negible with no evidence nor explanation. Talk about calling the kettle black.

 

Do me a favor ask a baseball player if he believes in momentum and see what he says.

 

Baseball players believe a lot of things to be true that aren't. Most of them aren't the smartest guys on earth.

 

Ask a baseball player if a corked bat is helpful. Ask certain baseball players if sliding into first base is a good idea. Etc.

 

some of them wear the same pair of unwashed underwear every game -- there you have it

 

Yep.

 

Oh, and THERE'S THAT AV!

[BigbadB]

Isn't it just as easy to lose momentum then to gain it? How is Momentum measured by win and loses? That's like saying in baseketball when a team goes on a run and scores 10 straight points, how come they stopped at 10?

 

Because momentum isn't real. It's just a word people use to define the moment.

[C.C.]

Isn't it just as easy to lose momentum then to gain it? How is Momentum measured by win and loses? That's like saying in baseketball when a team goes on a run and scores 10 straight points, how come they stopped at 10?

 

Because momentum isn't real. It's just a word people use to define the moment.

 

I'll buy that. What I don't buy is it's real with other sports, but not with baseball. I've been checking out case studies on the web and to some extent it's real, but the studies always come up inconclusive or not enough evidence.

[David]

Isn't it just as easy to lose momentum then to gain it? How is Momentum measured by win and loses? That's like saying in baseketball when a team goes on a run and scores 10 straight points, how come they stopped at 10?

 

Because momentum isn't real. It's just a word people use to define the moment.

 

I'll buy that. What I don't buy is it's real with other sports, but not with baseball. I've been checking out case studies on the web and to some extent it's real, but the studies always come up inconclusive or not enough evidence.

 

Do you not at all buy the argument that, if you choose define momentum as something that inspires or "pumps up" players (that's the only way I can see momentum being looked at as something remotely tangible), allowing them to play at a higher level, it is something that can be helpful in a game like, say, football or basketball, but not so much in baseball? I see some validity to it.

 

If a player's adrenaline is pumping in football (it damn well better be) or basketball, the players can run faster, hit harder, jump higher, etc. In baseball, being pumped up doesn't seem like it would help a player much. It can cause a pitcher to overthrow and leave balls up. It can cause hitters to try to swing harder than they normally would (usually not a good thing) and swing at pitches that they normally wouldn't.

 

To me, it's pretty obvious that those other sports are more conducive to the idea of something like momentum than baseball. There are too many variables, and there's too much finesse to the game in comparison to the others.

[BigbadB]

Nope. I don't buy into it. If a team is playing better than they normally do, it is because of their abilities to perform at that higher level rather than fictitional description of the moment.

 

I don't take issue with the use of the word momentum to describe these moments, but it isn't real.

 

If a basketball team goes on a 12 point run after trading baskets for 5 minutes, it isn't a momentum shift. It's what you expect teams to do on occasion, because the game would be boring if both teams traded baskets an entire game.

 

Skill, luck, focus, timing, exploiting the opposing teams weaknesses and toss in good coaching as the real reasons that teams can string together a mini-run or dominate the opposing team.

 

Sports are a series of successes and failures. The team that succeeds more often will win more often. Momentum is just a feel good word to describe those successes.

[Rob]

Additionally, cubbiechris, you're being a bit ridiculous. You've repeatedly stated, with absolutely no explanation or evidence, that the idea that momentum could exist or be prevalent in one sport and not another is silly.

 

 

My opinion, and it's nothing more than an educated guess, to be honest, is that momentum exists to some degree, but its effect on baseball is pretty minimal, perhaps to the point of being neglible.

 

So you say I'm being ridiculous for saying that momentum could exist in other sports including baseball and then you state that momentum exist to "some degree" in baseball, but is "pretty minimal" to the point of being negible with no evidence nor explanation. Talk about calling the kettle black.

 

Do me a favor ask a baseball player if he believes in momentum and see what he says.

 

Baseball players believe a lot of things to be true that aren't. Most of them aren't the smartest guys on earth.

 

Ask a baseball player if a corked bat is helpful. Ask certain baseball players if sliding into first base is a good idea. Etc.

 

Carl Everett doesn't believe in dinosaurs.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Additionally, cubbiechris, you're being a bit ridiculous. You've repeatedly stated, with absolutely no explanation or evidence, that the idea that momentum could exist or be prevalent in one sport and not another is silly.

 

 

My opinion, and it's nothing more than an educated guess, to be honest, is that momentum exists to some degree, but its effect on baseball is pretty minimal, perhaps to the point of being neglible.

 

So you say I'm being ridiculous for saying that momentum could exist in other sports including baseball and then you state that momentum exist to "some degree" in baseball, but is "pretty minimal" to the point of being negible with no evidence nor explanation. Talk about calling the kettle black.

 

Do me a favor ask a baseball player if he believes in momentum and see what he says.

 

Baseball players believe a lot of things to be true that aren't. Most of them aren't the smartest guys on earth.

 

Ask a baseball player if a corked bat is helpful. Ask certain baseball players if sliding into first base is a good idea. Etc.

 

Carl Everett doesn't believe in dinosaurs.

 

but does he know if the earth is round?

[C.C.]

Isn't it just as easy to lose momentum then to gain it? How is Momentum measured by win and loses? That's like saying in baseketball when a team goes on a run and scores 10 straight points, how come they stopped at 10?

 

Because momentum isn't real. It's just a word people use to define the moment.

 

I'll buy that. What I don't buy is it's real with other sports, but not with baseball. I've been checking out case studies on the web and to some extent it's real, but the studies always come up inconclusive or not enough evidence.

 

Do you not at all buy the argument that, if you choose define momentum as something that inspires or "pumps up" players (that's the only way I can see momentum being looked at as something remotely tangible), allowing them to play at a higher level, it is something that can be helpful in a game like, say, football or basketball, but not so much in baseball? I see some validity to it.

 

If a player's adrenaline is pumping in football (it damn well better be) or basketball, the players can run faster, hit harder, jump higher, etc. In baseball, being pumped up doesn't seem like it would help a player much. It can cause a pitcher to overthrow and leave balls up. It can cause hitters to try to swing harder than they normally would (usually not a good thing) and swing at pitches that they normally wouldn't.

 

To me, it's pretty obvious that those other sports are more conducive to the idea of something like momentum than baseball. There are too many variables, and there's too much finesse to the game in comparison to the others.

 

Wouldn't that be adrenaline? This is how I would define Momentum in sports:

 

Momentum is presently defined as: a positive or negative change in cognition, physiology, affect, and behavior caused by a precipitating event or series of events that will result in a shift in performance.

 

Couldn't this definition of Momentum in sports be applied to all sports?

[David]

Isn't it just as easy to lose momentum then to gain it? How is Momentum measured by win and loses? That's like saying in baseketball when a team goes on a run and scores 10 straight points, how come they stopped at 10?

 

Because momentum isn't real. It's just a word people use to define the moment.

 

I'll buy that. What I don't buy is it's real with other sports, but not with baseball. I've been checking out case studies on the web and to some extent it's real, but the studies always come up inconclusive or not enough evidence.

 

Do you not at all buy the argument that, if you choose define momentum as something that inspires or "pumps up" players (that's the only way I can see momentum being looked at as something remotely tangible), allowing them to play at a higher level, it is something that can be helpful in a game like, say, football or basketball, but not so much in baseball? I see some validity to it.

 

If a player's adrenaline is pumping in football (it damn well better be) or basketball, the players can run faster, hit harder, jump higher, etc. In baseball, being pumped up doesn't seem like it would help a player much. It can cause a pitcher to overthrow and leave balls up. It can cause hitters to try to swing harder than they normally would (usually not a good thing) and swing at pitches that they normally wouldn't.

 

To me, it's pretty obvious that those other sports are more conducive to the idea of something like momentum than baseball. There are too many variables, and there's too much finesse to the game in comparison to the others.

 

Wouldn't that be adrenaline? This is how I would define Momentum in sports:

 

Momentum is presently defined as: a positive or negative change in cognition, physiology, affect, and behavior caused by a precipitating event or series of events that will result in a shift in performance.

 

Couldn't this definition of Momentum in sports be applied to all sports?

 

Being "pumped up" applies to all of these things (the bolded). It could also be negative, one bad play snowballing into another, etc.

 

I'd tend to say there's more validity to the idea that negative momentum exists in baseball than positive. A player can easily cause negative outcomes to happen in baseball without the assistance of other variables.

 

i.e. it's a lot easier to see a player going up to the plate pissed off, going through the motions, and striking out than it would be to imagine that he'd go up there and get a hit somehow as a result of his positive "momentum."

 

So...maybe I buy the idea of negative momentum, to some extent. But I can't really see positive momentum existing to a significant extent in baseball.

[C.C.]

Isn't it just as easy to lose momentum then to gain it? How is Momentum measured by win and loses? That's like saying in baseketball when a team goes on a run and scores 10 straight points, how come they stopped at 10?

 

Because momentum isn't real. It's just a word people use to define the moment.

 

I'll buy that. What I don't buy is it's real with other sports, but not with baseball. I've been checking out case studies on the web and to some extent it's real, but the studies always come up inconclusive or not enough evidence.

 

Do you not at all buy the argument that, if you choose define momentum as something that inspires or "pumps up" players (that's the only way I can see momentum being looked at as something remotely tangible), allowing them to play at a higher level, it is something that can be helpful in a game like, say, football or basketball, but not so much in baseball? I see some validity to it.

 

If a player's adrenaline is pumping in football (it damn well better be) or basketball, the players can run faster, hit harder, jump higher, etc. In baseball, being pumped up doesn't seem like it would help a player much. It can cause a pitcher to overthrow and leave balls up. It can cause hitters to try to swing harder than they normally would (usually not a good thing) and swing at pitches that they normally wouldn't.

 

To me, it's pretty obvious that those other sports are more conducive to the idea of something like momentum than baseball. There are too many variables, and there's too much finesse to the game in comparison to the others.

 

Wouldn't that be adrenaline? This is how I would define Momentum in sports:

 

Momentum is presently defined as: a positive or negative change in cognition, physiology, affect, and behavior caused by a precipitating event or series of events that will result in a shift in performance.

 

Couldn't this definition of Momentum in sports be applied to all sports?

 

Being "pumped up" applies to all of these things (the bolded). It could also be negative, one bad play snowballing into another, etc.

 

I'd tend to say there's more validity to the idea that negative momentum exists in baseball than positive. A player can easily cause negative outcomes to happen in baseball without the assistance of other variables.

 

i.e. it's a lot easier to see a player going up to the plate pissed off, going through the motions, and striking out than it would be to imagine that he'd go up there and get a hit somehow as a result of his positive "momentum."

 

So...maybe I buy the idea of negative momentum, to some extent. But I can't really see positive momentum existing to a significant extent in baseball.

 

Sure it could mean pumped up. Like when a power pitcher turns it on and pitches out of a jam by adding some miles onto his fastball. Or it could mean when a batter gets pumped up and drives a ball over waveland. Or it could mean that when a player gets into a zone and goes 5-5 with 4 homeruns.

[David]

Despite how it may seem, a player putting more effort into a swing or a pitch than usual isn't necessarily (or usually, for that matter) a good thing, IMO.

[C.C.]

Despite how it may seem, a player putting more effort into a swing or a pitch than usual isn't necessarily (or usually, for that matter) a good thing, IMO.

 

Again you can say that for all sports. You don't want a QB overthrowing his Rec. Basketball player being too strong on jump shot. Etc...

 

Although, I don't equate adrenaline to momentum exclusively. It's not that simple.

[David]

Despite how it may seem, a player putting more effort into a swing or a pitch than usual isn't necessarily (or usually, for that matter) a good thing, IMO.

 

Again you can say that for all sports. You don't want a QB overthrowing his Rec. Basketball player being too strong on jump shot. Etc...

 

 

Yes, but in those sports there's a lot more physical exertion involved and a player could actually benefit in many obvious ways from having somewhat enhanced physical ability, per se.

 

There's a lot more to football than throwing passes, and there's a lot more to basketball than shooting. There's constant movement, there's jumping, there's blocking, etc.

 

In baseball, 95% (obviously an arbitrary number that I'm making up, but you get the idea) of the outcome is determined by the individual matchup between the pitcher and the hitter.