Brewers fans (some of them, anyways)

[XZero771679666304]

I am not sure if this is a rant, but I am sick to death of hearing this sort of stuff:

 

I have had enough of this BS. The Cubs have had a horseshoe up their you know what's for the past week and a half now. This is so unbelievably disgusting it's nauseating. Since Cubs fans will be reading this, I will recap for them just how they have gotten all the breaks lately.

 

Wednesday, September 12th @ Houston- Cubs lead 3-1 entering the 9th Astros get 1 back on a run scoring Triple by Mike Lamb with 0 out. With the score 3-2 and the tying run on 3rd, the Cubs get a lame groundout to the left side of the infield that doesn't score the run. A Walk to Palmiero puts runners on 1st and 3rd. Dempster then proceeds to get a ground ball that is bobbled but recovered in time to turn the game ending DP. If Munson beats the throw, the game is tied and the outcome could've been completely different. No, it was not just making good pitches from Dempster, it was a VERY fortuitous bounce that the bobble was recovered just in time to turn the DP. Cubs win 3-2.

 

Friday, September 14th @STL- StL trails 2-1 in the top of the 9th. Jason Isringhausen enters the game with the bases loaded and Daryl Ward PH. Isringhausen makes 1 mistake and Ward clears the bases with a Triple to put the Cubs up 5-1. Prior to this game Izzy had only allowed 2 ER in his last 10 appearances. Cardinals get two HR's in the bottom of the 9th that would've been the game winner(s). The Cards then proceed to load the bases with two outs trailing 5-3 and Aaron Miles in a key spot swings at the 1st pitch and grounds out to end the game. Thanks Aaron!! Cubs win 5-3.

 

Saturday, September 15th @ STL- 1st game of a DH. Braden Looper absolutely baffled the Cubs for 7 innings. Leaving the game having retired 17 straight. Cards up 2-1 going to the 8th. Ryan Franklin comes in for the Cards and Walks Cliff Floyd(after a VERY questionable pitch called for Ball 3). He goes 3-2 to Alfonso Soriano, and then serves up a 2 run homer. After being baffled all game long by Looper, they hit one pitch and win the game 3-2.

 

Wednesday September 19th vs. Cincy-maybe the turning point of the season. Reds Cubs tied 2-2 and the Reds have a Norris Hopper on 2nd and two out. Encarnacion hits a pretty soft single to Left and the Reds inexplicable send Hopper around to try to score. Soriano makes perhaps the easiest throw to home he'll ever make the rest of his career to get Hopper by 50 ft at home. Of course, the Cubs score next inning and win the game 3-2.

 

 

It's the Cubs year apparently because they aren't NEARLY as talented as the Brewers, yet they will probably win the division and go to the post season thanks in large part to a lot of fortuitous bounces the last couple of months.

 

Could people like this be any more clueless? I wonder.

 

First off, the Brewers are marginally more talented than the Cubs, if at all.

 

 

We won't mention all the bad breaks that the Cubs have gotten that people who don't watch the Cubs religiously wouldn't know about. (like that Norris Hopper robbed Ramirez in the same game he "missed" what would have been a spectacular catch in the 9th, or when Carlos Lee had an out of body experience and robbed Theriot of a game turning XBH in Houston with the catch of his career, check swing RBI hits by the Reds, etc., etc.) Or the good ones the Brewers have gotten (Oswalt and Williams missing starts and allowing the Crew to face three nobodies in the latest series, Pujols missing the upcoming series, etc., etc.)

 

The Cubs really haven't had good overall fortune since June. In all the Cubs have had as many bad breaks as good ones.

 

Or that nearly the entire Cubs lineup woefully underproduced the entire season up until about the past week. And we're talking about guys with track records like Soriano, Lee and Ramirez hitting 10-20 less home runs than in recent years. And Z having an awful season. Soriano never gets hurt and he got hurt. Barrett, normally a very good hitter, stank and was subsequently traded leaving a black hole in a lineup where a solid hitter was expected to be. Even Jones has underachieved, hitting over 20 fewer homers in 2007 than in 2006, and about 15 less than his career average.

 

Then you have Crew. Fielder and Braun are incredibly talented, but are playing as well as they likely ever will. Hardy played way over his head in the first half. Hart has played at about the peak of his ability. Weeks hasn't had success, but he's actually on pace to set a career high in OPS. Bill Hall has had a year nearly in line with his career average. Jenkins is on pace to have his second best season out of the last four. Estrada is below his career averages, but barely.

 

And you can't complain about Mench and Gross, because neither of them are below reasonable expectation, either.

 

No one in the Milwaukee pen has been a major disappointment (unless you expected things that were entirely unlikely), and Cordero has been much better than expected.

 

And Sheets can no longer be viewed an unlucky guy who has had really only one injury. He is officially injury prone, like it or not.

 

Really, the only things that have gone against the Crew (aside from the bad hops/breaks that go against every team) is the performance of Capuano and Ned Yost.

 

I don't bring this stuff up to say the Brewers are "lucky", because I don't believe that. I am bringing this stuff up because the notion that the reason that the Cubs are in first is because they have been smiled upon by the gods with good fortune is so patently and ridiculously stupid that it nearly defies articulation.

 

Lucky? Fortunate? Give me a freaking break. No more or less than Milwaukee.

 

If the Cubs win the division, it will be because the Brewers weren't as good in 2007, end of freaking story. Deal with it.

[DiamondMind]

I feel bad for them only because of Yost. We as Cubs fans know oh too well how incredibly frustrating a bad manager can be. It makes the season seem like a waste.

 

But beyond that, I find Brewers fans to be extremely resentful and spiteful for some unknown reason, and I hate that turd Braun, so..maybe next year cheeseheads.

 

If the Cubs win the division, it will be because the Brewers weren't as good in 2007, end of freaking story. Deal with it.

 

Pretty much.

[XZero771679666304]

I feel bad for them only because of Yost. We as Cubs fans know oh too well how incredibly frustrating a bad manager can be. It makes the season seem like a waste.

 

But beyond that, I find Brewers fans to be extremely resentful and spiteful for some unknown reason, and I hate that turd Braun, so..maybe next year cheeseheads.

 

If the Cubs win the division, it will be because the Brewers weren't as good in 2007, end of freaking story. Deal with it.

 

Pretty much.

 

Yeah, except Baker ruined Wood and Prior while we had to sit and watch. I'd trade any single season to have those two be what they were again.

[wolf stansson]

I suppose I could bump every thread ever accusing the Cardinals of being lucky, but that would knock every thread off the first two pages.

 

What's it like to have haters, guys? You should just enjoy it and keep rolling with the luck.

[E.J.]

I suppose I could bump every thread ever accusing the Cardinals of being lucky, but that would knock every thread off the first two pages.

 

What's it like to have haters, guys? You should just enjoy it and keep rolling with the luck.

 

It has been scientifically proven that the Cards are the luckiest team ever to play baseball.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I suppose I could bump every thread ever accusing the Cardinals of being lucky, but that would knock every thread off the first two pages.

 

What's it like to have haters, guys? You should just enjoy it and keep rolling with the luck.

 

speaking of haters, get that avatar back

[Andy]

I suppose I could bump every thread ever accusing the Cardinals of being lucky, but that would knock every thread off the first two pages.

 

What's it like to have haters, guys? You should just enjoy it and keep rolling with the luck.

The thing is, XZero just explained in excruciating detail why we haven't been any more or less lucky than any other decent Cubs team of the 21st century.

 

Here's the list of every Cub I can think of who has performed better than I would've thought:

 

Theriot

Fontenot

Ward

Soto

Marquis

(to some extent) R. Hill

(to some extent) Marshall

Kendall

Dempster

Marmol

 

And the thing is, of all of those, only the two relievers, Marquis, Hill and Theriot have gotten enough playing time, over the course of the whole season, to really have made a major statistical impact on the season. Whereas Zambrano, Jones, Soriano, Lee, Barrett, Floyd, and Eyre, to name a few, have been significantly below a) recent performance, b) career averages or c) both. In fact, as Cubs teams go, I think over the whole season, luck has had less of an impact on this one than any I remember following.

[BigbadB]

That Brewer fan should be made to sit and watch the entire April and May Cub season this year. You want to talk about not getting any luck.

 

April and May was painful.

[The Voice of Reason]

The Brewers winning run tonight got walked in after a couple of bloop hits. How is that not lucky?

 

 

Our friends up in the far northern suburb of Chicago really need to stop whining.

[XZero771679666304]

The Brewers winning run tonight got walked in after a couple of bloop hits. How is that not lucky?

 

 

Our friends up in the far northern suburb of Chicago really need to stop whining.

 

I hate attributing anything to luck. You could say the Braves were lucky that so many Brewers hard hit balls were right at guys. By the same token, the Brewers were lucky in the same way (most notably Escobar scalding the ball right at Counsell to end the bottom of the seventh). The Braves might have been lucky that Diaz caught that ball Hardy hit. The Brewers might have been lucky that Cox left a gassed Hudson in the game, and that they got a couple bloops and a walk with the bases chucked.

 

Or you could say that the law of averages evens this stuff out over the course of 162 games. One day your weak grounder is a hit, the next your scalded ball is right at a defender. Bloopers fall, screamers get caught. It's baseball. Perception causes people to view one team as being luckier than others, but perception is really all it is. Bias.

 

With that in mind, a strong case could be made that the Brewers have gotten about as much out of their talent as they could reasonably expect to, while the Cubs have gotten much less. I could get up on my soap box and tell the world how much better the Cubs' Pythagorean record is than the Brewers, in spite of woeful underproduction from the big three. I could say that the Cubs should really have a 5 or 6 game lead. And I might be right.

 

But there are so many variables at work here, that you can't just make statements like that. You have to trust that the actual record is a reasonable approximation of how the teams have played.

[Lockes Eye Scar]

every team in baseball gets lucky breaks, every team gets unlucky breaks. It's the nature of the game. The Brewers haven't been anymore unlucky or lucky than the Cubs have.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I went to school in Wisconsin for 5 years, and although I hate to admit it, I still have quite a few cheesehead friends, and believe me you, Brewer fans, and Wisconsin sports fans in general, while just as passionate as Chicago fans are even quicker to turn on their teams after a big loss then Chicago fans.

[jjgman21]

what's truly pathetic about that Brewers fans comments is by it's own terms, there was no luck involved in many of those plays, let alone that at least one is factually incorrect.

 

9/12 - why is the "lame groundout" not a function of skill as opposed to luck? Demp made a nasty pitch to get that grounder. as for the DP, sorry our GG first baseman made that play, but wouldn't letting a game get tied because of one little bobble by said GG first baseman be bad luck? three players made great plays. that's not luck.

 

9/14 - first off, Izzy came in at the beginning of the inning. perhaps if the Cubs weren't so unlucky that Pie's lazer beam didn't clear the wall, the rest of the inning wouldn't have played out like it did. as for Izzy making 'one mistake,' that's really what hitting is all about. waiting for that one mistake and not missing it. why a fifth crappy hitter in a row not getting a hit is 'lucky' I have no idea, but Theriot made a very good play on a very difficult ball.

 

9/15 - making a pitcher accumulate 115 pitches while retiring 17 in a row isn't luck. it is a skill rarely displayed by the Cubs called strikezone judgment. I didn't see the game, so I have no idea if the Cubs got a break on a ball three pitch, but if I had a dollar for every generous strike call Franquelis Osoria received yesterday I would treat you and your entire family to banana split. questionable pitches happen all the time, the Cubs quite often coming up on the short end. why Soriano hitting a pitch from a pitcher with a 2.34 ERA, who also happens to be faltering quite a bit lately, is "luck" I have no idea. it really seems to be a matter of skill.

 

9/19 - perfect throws from 235 feet away are now luck? the Reds third base coach shouldn't have sent Hopper, but the Cubs still had to make a perfect play and they made it. yes, the Cubs scratched across a run. three line drives back to back to back often result in scoring a run.

[jjgman21]

I suppose I could bump every thread ever accusing the Cardinals of being lucky, but that would knock every thread off the first two pages.

 

What's it like to have haters, guys? You should just enjoy it and keep rolling with the luck.

 

you're missing the mark here. I don't think there has been a large amount of complaining about how the Cardinals won and lost their ballgames like we see the Brewers fans complaining about.

 

what we have complained about is 16th round picks becoming the best hitters in baseball, career crap players constantly having career years once they put on the Cardinal uniform or at least carrying the team for a couple months (ie. Abraham Nunez), outperforming Pythag on a yearly basis, etc.

 

I personally have complained about the beneficial strikezone the Cards seem to get year after year. put that on me, not all of NSBB or all Cubs fans.

[XZero771679666304]

what's truly pathetic about that Brewers fans comments is by it's own terms, there was no luck involved in many of those plays, let alone that at least one is factually incorrect.

 

9/12 - why is the "lame groundout" not a function of skill as opposed to luck? Demp made a nasty pitch to get that grounder. as for the DP, sorry our GG first baseman made that play, but wouldn't letting a game get tied because of one little bobble by said GG first baseman be bad luck? three players made great plays. that's not luck.

 

9/14 - first off, Izzy came in at the beginning of the inning. perhaps if the Cubs weren't so unlucky that Pie's lazer beam didn't clear the wall, the rest of the inning wouldn't have played out like it did. as for Izzy making 'one mistake,' that's really what hitting is all about. waiting for that one mistake and not missing it. why a fifth crappy hitter in a row not getting a hit is 'lucky' I have no idea, but Theriot made a very good play on a very difficult ball.

 

9/15 - making a pitcher accumulate 115 pitches while retiring 17 in a row isn't luck. it is a skill rarely displayed by the Cubs called strikezone judgment. I didn't see the game, so I have no idea if the Cubs got a break on a ball three pitch, but if I had a dollar for every generous strike call Franquelis Osoria received yesterday I would treat you and your entire family to banana split. questionable pitches happen all the time, the Cubs quite often coming up on the short end. why Soriano hitting a pitch from a pitcher with a 2.34 ERA, who also happens to be faltering quite a bit lately, is "luck" I have no idea. it really seems to be a matter of skill.

 

9/19 - perfect throws from 235 feet away are now luck? the Reds third base coach shouldn't have sent Hopper, but the Cubs still had to make a perfect play and they made it. yes, the Cubs scratched across a run. three line drives back to back to back often result in scoring a run.

 

Exactly. People can see luck wherever they want to if they want to badly enough.

 

I love it. To illustrate how ignorance is directly involved in this, in the 9/19 Brewers thread, some of their posters were talking about how it was a good decision to run on Soriano under normal circumstances, and implied strongly that Sori didn't have a very good arm.

 

That'll happen when you start focusing on individual plays and being ignorant of reality.

[treebird]

Here's the list of every Cub I can think of who has performed better than I would've thought:

 

Theriot

Fontenot

Ward

Soto

Marquis

(to some extent) R. Hill

(to some extent) Marshall

Kendall

Dempster

Marmol

 

mark derosa should be there too.

 

.297/.376/.423

 

he had a career year at 31, and is now doing even better at 32.

[CubColtPacer]

Here's the list of every Cub I can think of who has performed better than I would've thought:

 

Theriot

Fontenot

Ward

Soto

Marquis

(to some extent) R. Hill

(to some extent) Marshall

Kendall

Dempster

Marmol

 

mark derosa should be there too.

 

.297/.376/.423

 

he had a career year at 31, and is now doing even better at 32.

 

I wouldn't call this year better than last year. His OBP is up 19 points, but his slugging is down 33 points. It's pretty close to a wash with maybe a tiny edge towards last year. I definitely agree that some regression was expected though, so he should be on the list.

 

I disagree with Hill on that list (because most people had high expectations for him), and Theriot (because he hasn't been that good). Other then that, I'd agree with it.

[SouthSideRyan]

Dempster and Hill have been worse than I thought they'd be. Theriot's been right about where I'd expect.

 

That may speak more to my expectations though.

[XZero771679666304]

Here's another gem:

 

how pathetic, the cubs are playing teams when they are sucking big time of late...while we get teams who are hot

 

Yeah, like the Astros and Cards? Two roasting hot powerhouses right there. And the Astros gave them a probably the three worst starters they could have.

 

Oh, and when they played the Reds, they got the ass end of the rotation while we got Harang and Arroyo.

 

What luck the Cubs have.

[XZero771679666304]

Followed quickly by another:

 

You wonder if that horseshoe will ever leave the Cubs's arses?? Want proof?? here's a team that is one of the worst in the NL at hitting HR's so what happens?? Oh, they have only hit 8 in two games. What did they all of a sudden become HR hitters on September 21?? One can only think the baseball gods are not going to think to kindly of this display of horseshoeness and will make them pay next week.

 

Because clearly Ramirez, Lee, Soriano and Floyd have never been regarded as home run hitters.

 

This stuff is almost funny.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Followed quickly by another:

 

You wonder if that horseshoe will ever leave the Cubs's arses?? Want proof?? here's a team that is one of the worst in the NL at hitting HR's so what happens?? Oh, they have only hit 8 in two games. What did they all of a sudden become HR hitters on September 21?? One can only think the baseball gods are not going to think to kindly of this display of horseshoeness and will make them pay next week.

 

Because clearly Ramirez, Lee, Soriano and Floyd have never been regarded as home run hitters.

 

This stuff is almost funny.

 

It is quite comical.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Over at brewerfan.net, brewcrewin07 is a riot.

 

He's got the "lucky Cubs" schtick down to an art form.

 

A few of his contributions...

 

It wouldn't bother me so much if they lost the division....but to the Cubs?? That's what hurts the most. The freaking mediocre talented Cubs. The horseshoe up their arses since September started Cubs. The no HR hitting all season but have hit 36 in 22 days in September Cubs. Yes, those incredibly LUCKY Cubs.

 

t's not like the Cubs deserve to win the division. Sad thing is, they didn't Earn it, they have had more lucky breaks then any team in recent memory. I am fully confident this has PO'd the baseball gods, and they will pay for it in the playoffs, and it will be absolutely the most beautiful thing in the world. Go ahead, make the playoffs Cubs. A lot of good it will do you when you lose the first series and get to go home with everyone else anyway. Was it really worth it Cubs fans??

 

 

 

:lol:

[XZero771679666304]

Over at brewerfan.net, brewcrewin07 is a riot.

 

He's got the "lucky Cubs" schtick down to an art form.

 

A few of his contributions...

 

It wouldn't bother me so much if they lost the division....but to the Cubs?? That's what hurts the most. The freaking mediocre talented Cubs. The horseshoe up their arses since September started Cubs. The no HR hitting all season but have hit 36 in 22 days in September Cubs. Yes, those incredibly LUCKY Cubs.

 

t's not like the Cubs deserve to win the division. Sad thing is, they didn't Earn it, they have had more lucky breaks then any team in recent memory. I am fully confident this has PO'd the baseball gods, and they will pay for it in the playoffs, and it will be absolutely the most beautiful thing in the world. Go ahead, make the playoffs Cubs. A lot of good it will do you when you lose the first series and get to go home with everyone else anyway. Was it really worth it Cubs fans??

 

 

 

:lol:

 

Yeah, that guy is either an idiot, ignorant or has a severe case of denial. Wrong on just about every count.

 

Most of the guys over there are okay, but brewcrewin07 is totally whacked out.

[DiamondMind]

Cardinals fans would not, and have not said this kind of crap, ever. Brewers fans should be embarrassed and ashamed by their attitudes.

[SouthSideRyan]

I know it was mentioned already, but let's not paint with broad brushes. You can see in the game threads over there that multiple people have talked about this board in a favorable light, and the majority of the posters over there shoot down the lucky/undeserving nonsense.