How much are so many Cub fans overrating Ryan Theriot?

[badnews]

Have you ever been on a forum and everyone has been simply gushing about him? I think it's a little crazy, it's like people have been brainwashed beyond common sense, and you can't talk to them rationally. They talk like Theriot is Ichiro or something, this awesome prototypical leadoff hitter.

 

What's so great about Theriot? He's the 5th best contact hitter in baseball behind Polanco, Pierre, Castillo, and Pedroia but he only has 1 month where he's hit above .300. In fact his entire season is built around his ridiculously good July, and that's pretty much it. The rest of the months look blah to downright awful.

 

And his numbers are nothing special at all. His numbers are like a typical Willy Taveras year, and nobody but I guess us would go wild and frothing over Willy T numbers. You find guys who have had comparable seasons to Theriot's you come up with a whole lot of unexciting names. Endy Chavez 2004! In fact Theriot's year hasn't even been as good as Tony Womack's 2004.

 

The peer pressure to shut up, pretend this guy is your idol, and smile is overwhelming. It's nice that he's scrappy and such a "go-getter" who "plays the game the right way" and all but I refuse to get that pumped about a .685 OPS and 25 steals, I mean, that's like every season for Nook Logan, I don't see anyone going crazy over him.

 

I actually started out being a big Theriot fan, but it's like that Seinfeld episode where everyone gushes over The English Patient, it's this whole militant overreaction that has soured me.

[BCVM22]

He's got a cool last name.

[inari]

GRIT

[Omar]

GRIT

 

HEART

[Mephistopheles]

two of the BEST minds here (teehee) responding to me:

 

theriot sucks

No he doesn't.

 

theriot sucks

Yea, under what strange thought process?

[genbar]

Yep, there's nothing likeable about token blue collar players who bust their a55 and give you everything they've got night in and night out. Kidding. Every home team's fanbase has that one "hustle guy". Why won't you let us have that here?

 

So are you saying that all the bad luck at the plate he's had recently should spawn Theriot hatership?

 

P.S. I absolutely LOOOOVE Gushers. 'Specially the cherry flavored ones. They're delish!!!!!11

[Lockes Eye Scar]

Theriot is mediocrity at its finest.

[badnews]

Whoa, when did I say people should hate Theriot? Maybe not so much this forum, but on other Cubs message boards, it's a huge Theriot love-in. Even before his cold streak he wasn't that great. It was basically July propping up his season.

 

What I am saying is that the love for Theriot is disproportionate to the results. I guess I'm one of those guys who start rolling their eyes when people wax poetic about "hustle, heart and grit" from guys with OPSes in the .600s. I mean it's fine when a guy like Eckstein or Freel are putting up the .760 OPSes they sometimes do, but when people were falling all over Theriot and all he had was Jerry Hairston 2002 numbers, it seems excessive and unwarranted.

[bhogg]

I have a dream.

 

I have a dream that one day every starter for the chicago cubs will post an OPS over 1.200. So the brothers and sisters of Cub land will no longer feel the need to bitch and moan over every little statistical mishap that a player may or may not suffer from.

 

Yes, I have a dream.

[Shawon12]

I have a dream.

 

I have a dream that one day every starter for the chicago cubs will post an OPS over 1.200. So the brothers and sisters of Cub land will no longer feel the need to bitch and moan over every little statistical mishap that a player may or may not suffer from.

 

Yes, I have a dream.

 

Great reply. Seriously, why would someone base their opinion on a player based on what other people think of them?? Who cares if people gush over him because he hustles?

Fact is, he has solidified the defense with his play at SS, filled in great in the leadoff spot, provides some energy to an otherwise lifeless team. He's not close to Arod, but he is a pretty good guy to root for and a guy that positions himself to win at every level he has played. He is replacable, but give me a break..

[Peoriaman]

I have a dream.

 

I have a dream that one day every starter for the chicago cubs will post an OPS over 1.200. So the brothers and sisters of Cub land will no longer feel the need to bitch and moan over every little statistical mishap that a player may or may not suffer from.

 

Yes, I have a dream.

 

Great reply. Seriously, why would someone base their opinion on a player based on what other people think of them?? Who cares if people gush over him because he hustles?

Fact is, he has solidified the defense with his play at SS, filled in great in the leadoff spot, provides some energy to an otherwise lifeless team. He's not close to Arod, but he is a pretty good guy to root for and a guy that positions himself to win at every level he has played. He is replacable, but give me a break..

 

 

hear, hear.

[genbar]

Call me a casual boring fan if you want, but not all of us have to necessarily look at a number to determine whether or not we have to like a ballplayer. He's an intangibles guy. I just like watching him play basketball.

[wvcbxl]

What I am saying is that the love for Theriot is disproportionate to the results.

 

What matters more to the team is that his results are at least proportionate to the cost.

[Yestheydo]

Whoa, when did I say people should hate Theriot? Maybe not so much this forum, but on other Cubs message boards, it's a huge Theriot love-in. Even before his cold streak he wasn't that great. It was basically July propping up his season.

 

What I am saying is that the love for Theriot is disproportionate to the results. I guess I'm one of those guys who start rolling their eyes when people wax poetic about "hustle, heart and grit" from guys with OPSes in the .600s. I mean it's fine when a guy like Eckstein or Freel are putting up the .760 OPSes they sometimes do, but when people were falling all over Theriot and all he had was Jerry Hairston 2002 numbers, it seems excessive and unwarranted.

 

He's not Neifi. The End.

[badnews]

That's a nice exaggeration, but it's just a glib way of chiding people for having standards. Somehow guys with OPSes in the .600s becomes needing everybody on a team with a 1.200 OPS.

 

I have a dream too. I have a dream where people stop over-romanticizing players with poor numbers who seem scrappy. Theriot isn't half of the things many people say he is, they just assume he is, because he seems like it. People say he's "blue collar" and "hustles" but I don't see him hustle more than many players with better statistics, and "blue collar" is just an empty term that signifies nothing.

 

It's funny how this attributes become almost mythologized when it comes to player with substandard numbers, but they're basically ignored when the players has good numbers.

 

It's basically the list of adjectives people have to (mistakenly) support wasting ABs on players like Darin Erstad and Nick Punto. The Darin Erstad-Nick Punto list of accolades, with about every hokey, warm-and-fuzzy, non-quantifiable adjective in the book. "Hard working, blue-collarl, a scrappy go-getter with the size of a mouse and the heart of a lion, Nick Punto needs your vote for President."

 

I've also noticed that people like this also tend to romanticize an overly-nostalgized era of baseball that never existed where every player was Nick Punto, they hate home runs and think bunting is the best thing since sliced bread.

 

This is what I'm talking about. You can't question Theriot without encountering the groundswell of anger like you've made vile personal attacks, and you're hunted down by the villagers with pitchforks and torches.

 

I don't think Theriot is awful, I don't think every player needs to be A-Rod, but I don't buy this fuzzy thinking of making every guy with a sub .700 OPS into some kind of paragon of holiness.

 

I think the praise should be commensurate with the production. With Theriot, it's not. A guy with his contact abilities should be hitting for average like Polanco or Pedroia, Theriot hits like Aaron Miles, and I'll tell you what - I don't care if his uniform gets dirty or not, I'm not writing love sonnets for the virtues of Aaron Miles.

[photoguy9883]

GRIT

 

HEART

 

I am Capitan Planet.

[kente777]

I have a dream too. I have a dream where people stop over-romanticizing players with poor numbers who seem scrappy.

 

I also have a dream. I have a dream that nations will be at peace with one another. I have a dream that people will learn to love and not hate. I also have a dream that people will put sporting events in their proper perspective and not get so worked up when other people have different views than them.

 

Seriously, man, let people think what they want. It's only a game.

[RynoRules]

I like the The Riot. He's not a world-beater; he doesn't suck either. He's a decent player whose weaknesses are magnified by the fact that this team's lineup is mediocre.

[CuseCubFan69]

I expected him to hit 260-280 and have a IsOP of over 70. He's done that. I'm sure many fans didn't think he was going to be a 320/400 guy. He's done a fine job and if the Cubs can find somebody better for SS in 2008 I'm all for it. I'm just happy they have a decent guy there and not a 220/260 dragging the team down in that position.

[Keener98]

Whoa, when did I say people should hate Theriot? Maybe not so much this forum, but on other Cubs message boards, it's a huge Theriot love-in. Even before his cold streak he wasn't that great. It was basically July propping up his season.

 

What I am saying is that the love for Theriot is disproportionate to the results. I guess I'm one of those guys who start rolling their eyes when people wax poetic about "hustle, heart and grit" from guys with OPSes in the .600s. I mean it's fine when a guy like Eckstein or Freel are putting up the .760 OPSes they sometimes do, but when people were falling all over Theriot and all he had was Jerry Hairston 2002 numbers, it seems excessive and unwarranted.

 

He's not Neifi. The End.

 

But he is basically Cesar Izturis.

 

.269 .313 .301 .614

.268 .330 .355 .685

 

Those numbers are alot alike.

[soapy]

Whoa, when did I say people should hate Theriot? Maybe not so much this forum, but on other Cubs message boards, it's a huge Theriot love-in. Even before his cold streak he wasn't that great. It was basically July propping up his season.

 

What I am saying is that the love for Theriot is disproportionate to the results. I guess I'm one of those guys who start rolling their eyes when people wax poetic about "hustle, heart and grit" from guys with OPSes in the .600s. I mean it's fine when a guy like Eckstein or Freel are putting up the .760 OPSes they sometimes do, but when people were falling all over Theriot and all he had was Jerry Hairston 2002 numbers, it seems excessive and unwarranted.

 

He's not Neifi. The End.

 

But he is basically Cesar Izturis.

 

.269 .313 .301 .614

.268 .330 .355 .685

 

Those numbers are alot alike.

 

Except Theriot's numbers are (slightly) better and he makes much, much less $$ than Cesar.

 

Theriot is mediocre. Nothing more, nothing less. As has been said here many times; he's fine at SS if you have a solid offense already. He's not someone you want to count on though. If the Cubs upgrade CF, RF or C this off-season, they'd be fine with Theriot at SS. If there is someone available as an upgrade (Arod, Tejada, Renteria), then do it.

Edited September 17, 2007 by soapy

[Soul]

GRIT

 

HEART

 

I am Capitan Planet.

 

Theriot recycles.

[Keener98]

Whoa, when did I say people should hate Theriot? Maybe not so much this forum, but on other Cubs message boards, it's a huge Theriot love-in. Even before his cold streak he wasn't that great. It was basically July propping up his season.

 

What I am saying is that the love for Theriot is disproportionate to the results. I guess I'm one of those guys who start rolling their eyes when people wax poetic about "hustle, heart and grit" from guys with OPSes in the .600s. I mean it's fine when a guy like Eckstein or Freel are putting up the .760 OPSes they sometimes do, but when people were falling all over Theriot and all he had was Jerry Hairston 2002 numbers, it seems excessive and unwarranted.

 

He's not Neifi. The End.

 

But he is basically Cesar Izturis.

 

.269 .313 .301 .614

.268 .330 .355 .685

 

Those numbers are alot alike.

 

Except Theriot's numbers are (slightly) better and he makes much, much less $$ than Cesar.

 

Theriot is mediocre. Nothing more, nothing less. As has been said here many times; he's fine at SS if you have a solid offense already. He's not someone you want to count on though. If the Cubs upgrade CF, RF or C this off-season, they'd be fine with Theriot at SS. If there is someone available as an upgrade (Arod, Tejada, Renteria), then do it.

 

I know Theriots numbers are slightly better, thats why I didnt say they were identical, I said they were alot alike. And being slightly better than Izturis is not a good thing.

[E.J.]

Like was mentioned, Theriot had one great month of July where he had an OPS over .900, but has been pretty awful every other month. He has a .330 OBP which is not good for a leadoff or #2 hitter. You couple that with Fonzie's OBP, and we have a 1 and 2 hitter who are below average at getting on base. Not exactly what you'd like from the guys hitting in front of your RBI guys.

 

He's 20th in OPS for all SS. Not really setting the world on fire. Sure, he's shown great defense at SS, but I'd like to have a little offense from the position as well. The Riot doesn't hit for any power and has shown that he's not all that great at getting on base either. He's a great utility guy who's been forced into a starting role because we have no other opttions. I'd love to see an upgrade at SS this offseason.

[CuseCubFan69]

Like was mentioned, Theriot had one great month of July where he had an OPS over .900, but has been pretty awful every other month. He has a .330 OBP which is not good for a leadoff or #2 hitter. You couple that with Fonzie's OBP, and we have a 1 and 2 hitter who are below average at getting on base. Not exactly what you'd like from the guys hitting in front of your RBI guys.

 

He's 20th in OPS for all SS. Not really setting the world on fire. Sure, he's shown great defense at SS, but I'd like to have a little offense from the position as well. The Riot doesn't hit for any power and has shown that he's not all that great at getting on base either. He's a great utility guy who's been forced into a starting role because we have no other opttions. I'd love to see an upgrade at SS this offseason.

 

I think the day off yesterday will help and Maybe Lou will give him a couple if Cedeno continues to hit.