College Football - Week of 9/15

[TruffleShuffle]

ESPN : Hating ND :: Joe Buck : Hating Cubs/Bears

 

 

the point being, some fans are just hypersensitive to any perceived criticism towards their team, often overstating the actual "bias" against their team

 

I think Joe Buck really does hate the Cubs, or at least dislike them... he's a Cardinal announcer, it's not too hard to see the connection. Meanwhile, where is the Jimmy-Claussen-is-God coverage the other day does one get the idea that ESPN hates ND?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I put up with ND getting a ton of attention because it means I get to see most all their games on TV, but that doesn't mean I like it.

 

That must be really rough for you.

[Andy]

ESPN : Hating ND :: Joe Buck : Hating Cubs/Bears

 

 

the point being, some fans are just hypersensitive to any perceived criticism towards their team, often overstating the actual "bias" against their team

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't every single commentator on that network debate the worthiness of ND getting a BCS bid the last TWO years in a row, ignoring the fact that they got an AUTOMATIC BID in 2005 and that the only other option in 2006 was West Virginia, who got smoked by South Freaking Florida?

 

I don't know if that's bias or not, but it sure as hell was stupid journalism.

[Andy]

ESPN : Hating ND :: Joe Buck : Hating Cubs/Bears

 

 

the point being, some fans are just hypersensitive to any perceived criticism towards their team, often overstating the actual "bias" against their team

 

I think Joe Buck really does hate the Cubs, or at least dislike them... he's a Cardinal announcer, it's not too hard to see the connection. Meanwhile, where is the Jimmy-Claussen-is-God coverage the other day does one get the idea that ESPN hates ND?

Oh brother, it's the media. They pump up Jimmy because he got hype. As soon as he shows signs of not being good (which he hasn't really yet), they'll rip him down like they do everyone they put up on a pedestal.

 

And Pat Forde JUST WROTE an article blasting Weis for winning with Willingham's players and being unable to win with his own, ignoring A) that Ty couldn't win with his own players (ever notice how NO ONE points out that Ty's only decent season as coach came with Bob Davie's players?) and B) that very few of Weis's players had any experience at all coming into the season and were immediately charged with beating two (current) Top 20 teams, one on the road in front of 110,000. So there's that.

[wolf stansson]

I think we know who the spittle flinging, breathlessly [expletive] sounding lead NCAA football studio analyst is for ESPN. There is no ND bias.

[Andy]

I put up with ND getting a ton of attention because it means I get to see most all their games on TV, but that doesn't mean I like it.

 

That must be really rough for you.

Trust me, I'd trade it in if it'd mean people like the ones on this message board and on "JCSPN.com" would shut the hell up about us for a while.

[Andy]

I think we know who the spittle flinging, breathlessly [expletive] sounding lead NCAA football studio analyst is for ESPN. There is no ND bias.

Are you kidding? Lou is like their 4th guy. Corso, Herbstreit and May all outrank him, in years at the network and in talk time.

 

I'm not disputing that Lou sounds like a moron, but he's not the lead guy. Not even close.

[wolf stansson]

I think we know who the spittle flinging, breathlessly [expletive] sounding lead NCAA football studio analyst is for ESPN. There is no ND bias.

Are you kidding? Lou is like their 4th guy. Corso, Herbstreit and May all outrank him, in years at the network and in talk time.

 

I'm not disputing that Lou sounds like a moron, but he's not the lead guy. Not even close.

I said lead studio guy. Those other guys are always on location somewhere.

[CubColtPacer]

I think we know who the spittle flinging, breathlessly [expletive] sounding lead NCAA football studio analyst is for ESPN. There is no ND bias.

 

And the biggest reason ESPN puts Holtz on there is to laugh at him, similar to Corso on Gameday. I'm not sure there's anybody in the country left who thinks he's there to provide good analysis.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I think we know who the spittle flinging, breathlessly [expletive] sounding lead NCAA football studio analyst is for ESPN. There is no ND bias.

 

And the biggest reason ESPN puts Holtz on there is to laugh at him, similar to Corso on Gameday.

 

Really? That's either the most brilliant satire ESPN has done since Cheap Seats, or they're actually treating him as a legitimate analyst.

[wolf stansson]

Yeah, ESPN generally sucks at satire (see: Mayne, Kenny).

[Guest]

My gosh, Noel Devine is sick.

 

Pat White, Steve Slaton, Noel Devine and Darius Reynaud, that's just not fair.

[Handlebar McSkullet]

My gosh, Noel Devine is sick.

 

Pat White, Steve Slaton, Noel Devine and Darius Reynaud, that's just not fair.

 

im impressed.

[dew1679666265]

My gosh, Noel Devine is sick.

 

Pat White, Steve Slaton, Noel Devine and Darius Reynaud, that's just not fair.

 

im impressed.

 

Not taking anything away from Devine (he's an incredible athlete), but it helps that Maryland really isn't anything special.

 

It'll look a lot better when he starts tearing up good football teams. It's just too bad for the Mountaineers the White, Slaton, Devine, Reynaud foursome won't be together longer than this year (or possibly next).

[TruffleShuffle]

ESPN : Hating ND :: Joe Buck : Hating Cubs/Bears

 

 

the point being, some fans are just hypersensitive to any perceived criticism towards their team, often overstating the actual "bias" against their team

 

I think Joe Buck really does hate the Cubs, or at least dislike them... he's a Cardinal announcer, it's not too hard to see the connection. Meanwhile, where is the Jimmy-Claussen-is-God coverage the other day does one get the idea that ESPN hates ND?

Oh brother, it's the media. They pump up Jimmy because he got hype. As soon as he shows signs of not being good (which he hasn't really yet), they'll rip him down like they do everyone they put up on a pedestal.

 

And Pat Forde JUST WROTE an article blasting Weis for winning with Willingham's players and being unable to win with his own, ignoring A) that Ty couldn't win with his own players (ever notice how NO ONE points out that Ty's only decent season as coach came with Bob Davie's players?) and B) that very few of Weis's players had any experience at all coming into the season and were immediately charged with beating two (current) Top 20 teams, one on the road in front of 110,000. So there's that.

 

ND got thoroughly outplayed in both games and hasn't scored an offensive touchdown yet this season. Not saying the blame all, or even much blame, belongs to Weis. But when Willingham went through those two bad years, the seniors and juniors on that team were all Bob Davie recruits. If your team has bad senior and junior players, you're not going to win, regardless of how promising your incoming freshmen and sophomores were. Look at the guys that Willingham inherited - not many guys who went on to be successful players at the next level.

 

Willingham was also transitioning the program into a West Coast offense, and that takes time. He brought in a good recruiting class his first year - Quinn, Samardzija, Abiamiri, and a couple others - but then had a poor class his second offseason, coming off a bad 5-7 year. There was a lot of negativity surrounding the program at that point. I'd argue that the schedules that ND played under Willingham were more difficult than the ones they've played the last two years under Weis - mostly because the last two years a number of teams they've faced have been disappointing.

 

I guess my point is, I don't think three years is enough to determine whether a guy is a good coach. Weis went out and won with Willingham's players - some of whom turned out to be really good - and now he's struggling with some weaker classes brought in by Willingham. It's very similar to what Ty did, but Weis seems to be the golden calf, whereas willingham was already being panned at this point.

 

I don't know what the reason is. I would guess that more of it has to do with Weis' reputation as an offensive genius with a team that won three super bowl titles. But I can't say for sure that race didn't play a role as well.

[Andy]

He NEVER PLAYED Samardzija. Never. He had 17 catches in 2 years or something and half of them were in the Insight Bowl which he didn't coach. And it's rich that you point out that Willingham's bad years were with Davie's players as juniors and seniors without pointing out that ND's current juniors and seniors - recruited by Willingham - are almost without rival the worst two recruiting classes in the history of Notre Dame football.

[dew1679666265]

ESPN : Hating ND :: Joe Buck : Hating Cubs/Bears

 

 

the point being, some fans are just hypersensitive to any perceived criticism towards their team, often overstating the actual "bias" against their team

 

I think Joe Buck really does hate the Cubs, or at least dislike them... he's a Cardinal announcer, it's not too hard to see the connection. Meanwhile, where is the Jimmy-Claussen-is-God coverage the other day does one get the idea that ESPN hates ND?

Oh brother, it's the media. They pump up Jimmy because he got hype. As soon as he shows signs of not being good (which he hasn't really yet), they'll rip him down like they do everyone they put up on a pedestal.

 

And Pat Forde JUST WROTE an article blasting Weis for winning with Willingham's players and being unable to win with his own, ignoring A) that Ty couldn't win with his own players (ever notice how NO ONE points out that Ty's only decent season as coach came with Bob Davie's players?) and B) that very few of Weis's players had any experience at all coming into the season and were immediately charged with beating two (current) Top 20 teams, one on the road in front of 110,000. So there's that.

 

ND got thoroughly outplayed in both games and hasn't scored an offensive touchdown yet this season. Not saying the blame all, or even much blame, belongs to Weis. But when Willingham went through those two bad years, the seniors and juniors on that team were all Bob Davie recruits. If your team has bad senior and junior players, you're not going to win, regardless of how promising your incoming freshmen and sophomores were. Look at the guys that Willingham inherited - not many guys who went on to be successful players at the next level.

 

Willingham was also transitioning the program into a West Coast offense, and that takes time. He brought in a good recruiting class his first year - Quinn, Samardzija, Abiamiri, and a couple others - but then had a poor class his second offseason, coming off a bad 5-7 year. There was a lot of negativity surrounding the program at that point. I'd argue that the schedules that ND played under Willingham were more difficult than the ones they've played the last two years under Weis - mostly because the last two years a number of teams they've faced have been disappointing.

 

I guess my point is, I don't think three years is enough to determine whether a guy is a good coach. Weis went out and won with Willingham's players - some of whom turned out to be really good - and now he's struggling with some weaker classes brought in by Willingham. It's very similar to what Ty did, but Weis seems to be the golden calf, whereas willingham was already being panned at this point.

 

I don't know what the reason is. I would guess that more of it has to do with Weis' reputation as an offensive genius with a team that won three super bowl titles. But I can't say for sure that race didn't play a role as well.

 

I agree with much of this. I've often wondered (and discussed it with ND fans) why two coaches with similar results are treated so differently. Weis is winning (and now losing) with Ty's players, just like Ty won and lost with Davie's players.

 

I have yet to hear a convincing argument why Ty deserved to be fired after three years, and Weis - who hasn't done much more than Ty - deserved a 10-year extension.

 

Weis is 19-8 with ND in just over 2 seasons, Ty was 21-15 in 3 full seasons. Assuming the Irish go 6-6 this season (like many ND supporters say is optimistic), Weis' record will be 25-12 - slightly better than Ty.

[TruffleShuffle]

He NEVER PLAYED Samardzija. Never. He had 17 catches in 2 years or something and half of them were in the Insight Bowl which he didn't coach. And it's rich that you point out that Willingham's bad years were with Davie's players as juniors and seniors without pointing out that ND's current juniors and seniors - recruited by Willingham - are almost without rival the worst two recruiting classes in the history of Notre Dame football.

 

The junior/senior classes during Willingham's last two years were horrible too. When your best players are Arnaz Battle and Carlyle Holiday, you're not going to win much. Willingham's teams were routinely being trampled by good programs those two years, and the reason was a deficit in talent.

 

As for Samardzija not playing the first two years, you can find examples of that in any program. Larry Johnson started all of one year at Penn State. I could go on, but the point is that under even the greatest coaches' tenures, you'll have players who fall through the cracks, whose talent isnt recognized until late in their college career.

 

Weis may be a better coach/recruiter than Willingham - not sure yet, but he probably will be regarded as such - but I still think Willingham is a good coach who got a raw deal in South Bend.

[dew1679666265]

He NEVER PLAYED Samardzija. Never. He had 17 catches in 2 years or something and half of them were in the Insight Bowl which he didn't coach. And it's rich that you point out that Willingham's bad years were with Davie's players as juniors and seniors without pointing out that ND's current juniors and seniors - recruited by Willingham - are almost without rival the worst two recruiting classes in the history of Notre Dame football.

 

Did Ty rely more on timing routes and more complex assignments for his receivers or did the receivers just run to a spot in his offense?

 

I know with Tennessee's offensive system, it's far more difficult to give freshmen and sophomores playing time than Florida under Spurrier, for instance. Fulmer and Cutcliffe run a very complex and difficult system for receivers to learn whereas Spurrier's system simply had them run to a spot and the QB had all the complexities.

[Exile on Waveland]

He NEVER PLAYED Samardzija. Never. He had 17 catches in 2 years or something and half of them were in the Insight Bowl which he didn't coach. And it's rich that you point out that Willingham's bad years were with Davie's players as juniors and seniors without pointing out that ND's current juniors and seniors - recruited by Willingham - are almost without rival the worst two recruiting classes in the history of Notre Dame football.

 

I don't like Notre Dame. They may be my least favorite college football program. However, I'm almost rooting for Weiss. I'm getting tired of people with little knowledge of the situation presuming to understand it. To me, it is comparable to the media and most non-IU fans saying that Mike Davis wasn't that bad and we were being unfair to him when he was clearly running the program into the ground. Sure, Willingham's and Weiss's records may look similar after this season, but that doesn't tell the whole story. Look at the recruiting, that's all you need to understand.

 

*That said, I'm not necessarily saying Willingham's dismissal was fair after three years, but he wasn't doing a good job.

[dew1679666265]

He NEVER PLAYED Samardzija. Never. He had 17 catches in 2 years or something and half of them were in the Insight Bowl which he didn't coach. And it's rich that you point out that Willingham's bad years were with Davie's players as juniors and seniors without pointing out that ND's current juniors and seniors - recruited by Willingham - are almost without rival the worst two recruiting classes in the history of Notre Dame football.

 

The junior/senior classes during Willingham's last two years were horrible too. When your best players are Arnaz Battle and Carlyle Holiday, you're not going to win much. Willingham's teams were routinely being trampled by good programs those two years, and the reason was a deficit in talent.

 

As for Samardzija not playing the first two years, you can find examples of that in any program. Larry Johnson started all of one year at Penn State. I could go on, but the point is that under even the greatest coaches' tenures, you'll have players who fall through the cracks, whose talent isnt recognized until late in their college career.

 

Weis may be a better coach/recruiter than Willingham - not sure yet, but he probably will be regarded as such - but I still think Willingham is a good coach who got a raw deal in South Bend.

 

I have no idea if Ty would have turned ND around, but I feel like he should have gotten another year or two to see. Just like I don't think Weis' tenure should be considered a success or failure after this season.

 

Any coach needs more than three years to turn a faltering program around.

[CubColtPacer]

ESPN : Hating ND :: Joe Buck : Hating Cubs/Bears

 

 

the point being, some fans are just hypersensitive to any perceived criticism towards their team, often overstating the actual "bias" against their team

 

I think Joe Buck really does hate the Cubs, or at least dislike them... he's a Cardinal announcer, it's not too hard to see the connection. Meanwhile, where is the Jimmy-Claussen-is-God coverage the other day does one get the idea that ESPN hates ND?

Oh brother, it's the media. They pump up Jimmy because he got hype. As soon as he shows signs of not being good (which he hasn't really yet), they'll rip him down like they do everyone they put up on a pedestal.

 

And Pat Forde JUST WROTE an article blasting Weis for winning with Willingham's players and being unable to win with his own, ignoring A) that Ty couldn't win with his own players (ever notice how NO ONE points out that Ty's only decent season as coach came with Bob Davie's players?) and B) that very few of Weis's players had any experience at all coming into the season and were immediately charged with beating two (current) Top 20 teams, one on the road in front of 110,000. So there's that.

 

ND got thoroughly outplayed in both games and hasn't scored an offensive touchdown yet this season. Not saying the blame all, or even much blame, belongs to Weis. But when Willingham went through those two bad years, the seniors and juniors on that team were all Bob Davie recruits. If your team has bad senior and junior players, you're not going to win, regardless of how promising your incoming freshmen and sophomores were. Look at the guys that Willingham inherited - not many guys who went on to be successful players at the next level.

 

A couple of things. One-Willingham only had success for one season, while Weis has already had it for two. Weis has already put together three great recruiting classes (including the one he already has put together for next year)-Willingham only had 1 in the top 20.

 

Willingham did have defensive talent and Julius Jones left over from Bob Davie. The cupboard wasn't completely bare, and it would have been less bare if he hadn't changed the offensive system around (not that I'm saying that wasn't the right move eventually, but the QB's and wideouts there were not suited for a West coast offense right away)

 

Plus, even with two good seasons under his belt, Weis is already getting questioned by people. From an article in the Indy Star:

 

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070911/SPORTS06/709110325/1068/SPORTS06

 

If ND has two straight losing seasons like they did under Ty, Weis will be fired. It won't be right, just like it wasn't right under Willingham, but it is at least consistent.

Edited September 14, 2007 by CubColtPacer

[dew1679666265]

ESPN : Hating ND :: Joe Buck : Hating Cubs/Bears

 

 

the point being, some fans are just hypersensitive to any perceived criticism towards their team, often overstating the actual "bias" against their team

 

I think Joe Buck really does hate the Cubs, or at least dislike them... he's a Cardinal announcer, it's not too hard to see the connection. Meanwhile, where is the Jimmy-Claussen-is-God coverage the other day does one get the idea that ESPN hates ND?

Oh brother, it's the media. They pump up Jimmy because he got hype. As soon as he shows signs of not being good (which he hasn't really yet), they'll rip him down like they do everyone they put up on a pedestal.

 

And Pat Forde JUST WROTE an article blasting Weis for winning with Willingham's players and being unable to win with his own, ignoring A) that Ty couldn't win with his own players (ever notice how NO ONE points out that Ty's only decent season as coach came with Bob Davie's players?) and B) that very few of Weis's players had any experience at all coming into the season and were immediately charged with beating two (current) Top 20 teams, one on the road in front of 110,000. So there's that.

 

ND got thoroughly outplayed in both games and hasn't scored an offensive touchdown yet this season. Not saying the blame all, or even much blame, belongs to Weis. But when Willingham went through those two bad years, the seniors and juniors on that team were all Bob Davie recruits. If your team has bad senior and junior players, you're not going to win, regardless of how promising your incoming freshmen and sophomores were. Look at the guys that Willingham inherited - not many guys who went on to be successful players at the next level.

 

A couple of things. One-Willingham only had success for one season, while Weis has already had it for two. Weis has already put together three great recruiting classes (including the one he already has put together for next year)-Willingham only had 1 in the top 20.

 

Plus, even with two good seasons under his belt, Weis is already getting questioned by people. From an article in the Indy Star:

 

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070911/SPORTS06/709110325/1068/SPORTS06

 

If ND has two straight losing seasons like they did under Ty, Weis will be fired. It won't be right, just like it wasn't right under Willingham, but it is at least consistent.

 

You sure about that? Even with the extension he signed after his first year? That's a huge financial hit for the boosters to take.

[CubColtPacer]

ESPN : Hating ND :: Joe Buck : Hating Cubs/Bears

 

 

the point being, some fans are just hypersensitive to any perceived criticism towards their team, often overstating the actual "bias" against their team

 

I think Joe Buck really does hate the Cubs, or at least dislike them... he's a Cardinal announcer, it's not too hard to see the connection. Meanwhile, where is the Jimmy-Claussen-is-God coverage the other day does one get the idea that ESPN hates ND?

Oh brother, it's the media. They pump up Jimmy because he got hype. As soon as he shows signs of not being good (which he hasn't really yet), they'll rip him down like they do everyone they put up on a pedestal.

 

And Pat Forde JUST WROTE an article blasting Weis for winning with Willingham's players and being unable to win with his own, ignoring A) that Ty couldn't win with his own players (ever notice how NO ONE points out that Ty's only decent season as coach came with Bob Davie's players?) and B) that very few of Weis's players had any experience at all coming into the season and were immediately charged with beating two (current) Top 20 teams, one on the road in front of 110,000. So there's that.

 

ND got thoroughly outplayed in both games and hasn't scored an offensive touchdown yet this season. Not saying the blame all, or even much blame, belongs to Weis. But when Willingham went through those two bad years, the seniors and juniors on that team were all Bob Davie recruits. If your team has bad senior and junior players, you're not going to win, regardless of how promising your incoming freshmen and sophomores were. Look at the guys that Willingham inherited - not many guys who went on to be successful players at the next level.

 

A couple of things. One-Willingham only had success for one season, while Weis has already had it for two. Weis has already put together three great recruiting classes (including the one he already has put together for next year)-Willingham only had 1 in the top 20.

 

Plus, even with two good seasons under his belt, Weis is already getting questioned by people. From an article in the Indy Star:

 

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070911/SPORTS06/709110325/1068/SPORTS06

 

If ND has two straight losing seasons like they did under Ty, Weis will be fired. It won't be right, just like it wasn't right under Willingham, but it is at least consistent.

 

You sure about that? Even with the extension he signed after his first year? That's a huge financial hit for the boosters to take.

 

I don't think there's much doubt about it. If the boosters want something done, they won't worry about the money, and believe me in that they won't tolerate losing for very long. Weis needs to win at least 7-8 games next year in order to keep his job.

[dew1679666265]

I don't think there's much doubt about it. If the boosters want something done, they won't worry about the money, and believe me in that they won't tolerate losing for very long. Weis needs to win at least 7-8 games next year in order to keep his job.

 

A minimum 7-8 games or you're gone with a sophomore at QB, a still somewhat (at best) iffy offensive line and another sophomore at tailback.

 

There are high expectations and then there are unreasonable demands.