Z's Explanation

[Mizzou]

I love Big Z, but after that idiotic baserunning blunder and then completely sucking on the mound after that, he deserved to be booed. I'm looking forward to reading what he actually said, but it doesn't sound good at this point. But with all that said, one dominant start and the fans will forget about whatever comments he made.

[Irrelevant Dude]

Does Z realize that New York Yankee fans booed A-Rod last year?

 

And those Yankee fans were correctly labeled idiots by most of the rational world.

 

Do you think Cubs fans are idiots for boo'ing Z? Z has done nothing close in the Majors to compare at all to what Arods done.

 

Not idiots, but definitely selfish like Z said.

I think people have a right to be selfish when they are spending their money to see a game. I suppose it's also selfish of me to hope a movie is good when I spend $8 to go to the theater. And it's selfish to expect good food when I go to a restaurant. Consider us all selfish!

[3Dog]

Bottom line is that players shouldn't be affected by cheering or booing. They need to understand that it's a release of emotion ONLY. Certainly, cheering and booing will be directed it at a particular individual - but it is not meant as discussion or dialogue. It's a reflexive expression in and of itself, the same as a person saying "yuck" when drinking sour milk or making a "yummy" noise when biting into a juicy steak.

 

Any player or fan that believes there's some kind of connect that exists between themselves, and that cheering/booing is some form of interpersonal communication between fan and player, is kidding themselves.

[Illini Iceman]

Why is it that every time this type of thing comes up, 15 people start in with "Fans have the right to boo"? I don't think anyone reasonable says that fans don't have the right to boo. That's certainly their right.

 

I just don't necessarily think it's the right thing to do, especially in this case. I understand why they were upset, so I'm not upset with the fans. But the last thing Z needs is another mental battle. I just don't think the booing results in anything positive, other than some fans getting stuff off their chest. So in that regard, Carlos is right.

 

Players should be able to take the booing with a grain of salt and just ignore it. However, they are humans and it probably hurts when people that are supposed to be on your side turn on you and lash out in a negative way. The players are supposed to understand how much we as Cub fans have suffered and how much we want a championship and use that as motivation to play harder even if they still get paid the same no matter what and don't have the equivalent emotional investment in this organization that a fan of many decades may have. However, it is a 2 way street and if we expect them to relate in that way to our situation as fans then it is not probably too much for them to expect to get some compassion in the other direction when things are not going their way. It has to be very difficult for a guy like Z who strives to be the best at what he does and has obviously a large competitive fire to not succeed. From his perspective he would hope that those that are supposed to support him (the fans) would do so and not take this opportunity to rub salt in the wound by booing.

That being said, they make big bucks and with that need to know they are going to be held to high standards and expected to earn that money. Z probably does know that as well and that is why he will eventually apologize, but in the heat of the moment he is going to say what he truly feels and I think he truly feels like the fans (like a family) should stand by their guys through thick and thin.

I understand what everyone has said and acknowlege how bad he has been and how disappointing it is. No one should take away any fans right to boo, but players also have the right to not be happy with being treated that way (no matter how much money they make).

[Soul]

Bottom line is that players shouldn't be affected by cheering or booing. They need to understand that it's a release of emotion ONLY. Certainly, cheering and booing will be directed it at a particular individual - but it is not meant as discussion or dialogue. It's a reflexive expression in and of itself, the same as a person saying "yuck" when drinking sour milk or making a "yummy" noise when biting into a juicy steak.

 

Any player or fan that believes there's some kind of connect that exists between themselves, and that cheering/booing is some form of interpersonal communication between fan and player, is kidding themselves.

 

Here's how I look at it. There are plenty of horrendous teams out there that never hear boos. Wanna know why? Because their fans no longer care.

 

Careful what you wish for, Z.

[oldcubsfan]

Touche Z. Damn those fans that sell out every game at "Wrigley Stadium" ... The ones that pay your salary... The ones that check ahead of schedule to see when you're starting so they can buy tickets to see your over-paid ass pitch... or whatever it is you're doing (or not doing) out there.

 

Try telling a cop you "pay his salary" and see his response.

"Paying his salary" is just a silly argument. BTW, all 40,000 didn't boo him, even though he played a very bad game today. The vast majority just play didn't boo him.

[hawkeyecub]

Why is it that every time this type of thing comes up, 15 people start in with "Fans have the right to boo"? I don't think anyone reasonable says that fans don't have the right to boo. That's certainly their right.

 

I just don't necessarily think it's the right thing to do, especially in this case. I understand why they were upset, so I'm not upset with the fans. But the last thing Z needs is another mental battle. I just don't think the booing results in anything positive, other than some fans getting stuff off their chest. So in that regard, Carlos is right.

 

The fans are concered that their ballclub is blowing a golden opportunity at a playoff berth. I fail to see how that is "only thinking of themselves." Wouldn't it also be a good thing for........oh I dunno.....everyone else if the Cubs made it?

 

Fans boo because they want better for their team and their city, as well as themselves. Saying it's a selfish thing to boo is a total misread, IMO. It just shows me that Z's head isn't where it needs to be.

 

What Z most desperately needs is to find out why he no longer gets hitters out when he has done so consistently for 4 years. And he needs to find that out in very short order.

 

Do people really not think booing is selfish? Of course it is. The only reason Joe Schmoe in the bleachers boos Z for a bad performance is so he can make HIS feelings known.

It doesn't make Z perform any better or create any positive outcome for the team. The only person it benefits is the booer. Therefore it is selfish.

 

For the 8,000th time, no one is saying fans don't have the right to boo. For some reason it's the automatic line that everyone has to repeat when this type of thing happens. You have the right to boo anyone you want. That just doesn't mean it's always right. There is a difference.

[oldcubsfan]

Does Z realize that New York Yankee fans booed A-Rod last year?

 

And those Yankee fans were correctly labeled idiots by most of the rational world.

 

Do you think Cubs fans are idiots for boo'ing Z? Z has done nothing close in the Majors to compare at all to what Arods done.

 

Not idiots, but definitely selfish like Z said.

I think people have a right to be selfish when they are spending their money to see a game. I suppose it's also selfish of me to hope a movie is good when I spend $8 to go to the theater. And it's selfish to expect good food when I go to a restaurant. Consider us all selfish!

 

No you don't. It's sports/entertainment, nothing more.

[Keener98]

Does Z realize that New York Yankee fans booed A-Rod last year?

 

And those Yankee fans were correctly labeled idiots by most of the rational world.

 

Do you think Cubs fans are idiots for boo'ing Z? Z has done nothing close in the Majors to compare at all to what Arods done.

 

Not idiots, but definitely selfish like Z said.

 

How are they selfish by wanting HIM to do good so the TEAM wins?

[soccer10k]

Does Z realize that New York Yankee fans booed A-Rod last year?

 

And those Yankee fans were correctly labeled idiots by most of the rational world.

 

Do you think Cubs fans are idiots for boo'ing Z? Z has done nothing close in the Majors to compare at all to what Arods done.

 

Not idiots, but definitely selfish like Z said.

 

You know the punching bag named Jason Marquis who some people on here have said has sucked this year (I'm neither agreeing nor disagreeing)? Well, Z's been a worse pitcher than Marquis this year.

 

This is a whole lot different from the ARod situation last year. ARod had a .915 OPS last year for an OPS+ of 140. That's well above average. He was very, very good last year and Yankee fans were stupid to boo him. Z this year has an ERA of 4.35 this year which is going to be right around average. Marquis has an ERA of 4.2 and his ERA+ is 107.

[Soul]

Why is it that every time this type of thing comes up, 15 people start in with "Fans have the right to boo"? I don't think anyone reasonable says that fans don't have the right to boo. That's certainly their right.

 

I just don't necessarily think it's the right thing to do, especially in this case. I understand why they were upset, so I'm not upset with the fans. But the last thing Z needs is another mental battle. I just don't think the booing results in anything positive, other than some fans getting stuff off their chest. So in that regard, Carlos is right.

 

The fans are concered that their ballclub is blowing a golden opportunity at a playoff berth. I fail to see how that is "only thinking of themselves." Wouldn't it also be a good thing for........oh I dunno.....everyone else if the Cubs made it?

 

Fans boo because they want better for their team and their city, as well as themselves. Saying it's a selfish thing to boo is a total misread, IMO. It just shows me that Z's head isn't where it needs to be.

 

What Z most desperately needs is to find out why he no longer gets hitters out when he has done so consistently for 4 years. And he needs to find that out in very short order.

 

Do people really not think booing is selfish? Of course it is. The only reason Joe Schmoe in the bleachers boos Z for a bad performance is so he can make HIS feelings known.

It doesn't make Z perform any better or create any positive outcome for the team. The only person it benefits is the booer. Therefore it is selfish.

 

For the 8,000th time, no one is saying fans don't have the right to boo. For some reason it's the automatic line that everyone has to repeat when this type of thing happens. You have the right to boo anyone you want. That just doesn't mean it's always right. There is a difference.

 

I don't recall harping that "fans have the right to boo," but I strongly disagree that it is solely a selfish act and your explanation rings untrue to me.

[Keener98]

I think its really funny that a pitcher who is known for showing his emotions on the field, like Z, is upset with fans for showing their emotions.

[hawkeyecub]

Why is it that every time this type of thing comes up, 15 people start in with "Fans have the right to boo"? I don't think anyone reasonable says that fans don't have the right to boo. That's certainly their right.

 

I just don't necessarily think it's the right thing to do, especially in this case. I understand why they were upset, so I'm not upset with the fans. But the last thing Z needs is another mental battle. I just don't think the booing results in anything positive, other than some fans getting stuff off their chest. So in that regard, Carlos is right.

 

The fans are concered that their ballclub is blowing a golden opportunity at a playoff berth. I fail to see how that is "only thinking of themselves." Wouldn't it also be a good thing for........oh I dunno.....everyone else if the Cubs made it?

 

Fans boo because they want better for their team and their city, as well as themselves. Saying it's a selfish thing to boo is a total misread, IMO. It just shows me that Z's head isn't where it needs to be.

 

What Z most desperately needs is to find out why he no longer gets hitters out when he has done so consistently for 4 years. And he needs to find that out in very short order.

 

Do people really not think booing is selfish? Of course it is. The only reason Joe Schmoe in the bleachers boos Z for a bad performance is so he can make HIS feelings known.

It doesn't make Z perform any better or create any positive outcome for the team. The only person it benefits is the booer. Therefore it is selfish.

 

For the 8,000th time, no one is saying fans don't have the right to boo. For some reason it's the automatic line that everyone has to repeat when this type of thing happens. You have the right to boo anyone you want. That just doesn't mean it's always right. There is a difference.

 

I don't recall harping that "fans have the right to boo," but I strongly disagree that it is solely a selfish act and your explanation rings untrue to me.

 

The "right to boo" thing wasn't directed at you, but it's been said a bunch of times in this thread.

 

How do you disagree that it's not selfish? The fans are booing because they are upset and they want the player to know that. They should know that booing your own team's player doesn't help him to perform better.

Edited September 4, 2007 by hawkeyecub

[Shilzzz]

while i've never really been into booing the home team, i understand and support peoples right to do so. you won't ever see me do it, and i honestly believe that he was right when he said support is better than whatever else, but again, i get it. zambrano sucked today and should take responsibility for it.

[Keener98]

while i've never really been into booing the home team, i understand and support peoples right to do so. you won't ever see me do it, and i honestly believe that he was right when he said support is better than whatever else, but again, i get it. zambrano sucked today and should take responsibility for it.

 

what are they supposed to do though really? Standing O when he leaves from another terrible outing? Clap? I really dont know what the alternatives were, and its not like all 40000 there were booing, id say it was a very low percentage as it didnt come across tv well at all.

[3Dog]

They should know that booing your own team's player doesn't help him to perform better.

 

True, and fans should also know that cheering won't help a player either. The effect of the crowd on the performance of athletes, at least in baseball, isn't all that much.

Edited September 4, 2007 by 3Dog

[Shilzzz]

while i've never really been into booing the home team, i understand and support peoples right to do so. you won't ever see me do it, and i honestly believe that he was right when he said support is better than whatever else, but again, i get it. zambrano sucked today and should take responsibility for it.

 

what are they supposed to do though really? Standing O when he leaves from another terrible outing? Clap? I really dont know what the alternatives were, and its not like all 40000 there were booing, id say it was a very low percentage as it didnt come across tv well at all.

 

let's not be foolish and suggest that i may believe a standing ovation to be appropriate. i would do nothing and be sad that my team is losing and playing poorly. zambrano (or whatever player is struggling) probably isn't going to benefit from being boo'd. that's just my opinion. if old people at the complexes i mow were to stand around and boo everytime i missed a spot while weedeating, i would probably get nervous and only get worse. that's me, though.

[Soul]

Why is it that every time this type of thing comes up, 15 people start in with "Fans have the right to boo"? I don't think anyone reasonable says that fans don't have the right to boo. That's certainly their right.

 

I just don't necessarily think it's the right thing to do, especially in this case. I understand why they were upset, so I'm not upset with the fans. But the last thing Z needs is another mental battle. I just don't think the booing results in anything positive, other than some fans getting stuff off their chest. So in that regard, Carlos is right.

 

The fans are concered that their ballclub is blowing a golden opportunity at a playoff berth. I fail to see how that is "only thinking of themselves." Wouldn't it also be a good thing for........oh I dunno.....everyone else if the Cubs made it?

 

Fans boo because they want better for their team and their city, as well as themselves. Saying it's a selfish thing to boo is a total misread, IMO. It just shows me that Z's head isn't where it needs to be.

 

What Z most desperately needs is to find out why he no longer gets hitters out when he has done so consistently for 4 years. And he needs to find that out in very short order.

 

Do people really not think booing is selfish? Of course it is. The only reason Joe Schmoe in the bleachers boos Z for a bad performance is so he can make HIS feelings known.

It doesn't make Z perform any better or create any positive outcome for the team. The only person it benefits is the booer. Therefore it is selfish.

 

For the 8,000th time, no one is saying fans don't have the right to boo. For some reason it's the automatic line that everyone has to repeat when this type of thing happens. You have the right to boo anyone you want. That just doesn't mean it's always right. There is a difference.

 

I don't recall harping that "fans have the right to boo," but I strongly disagree that it is solely a selfish act and your explanation rings untrue to me.

 

The "right to boo" thing wasn't directed at you, but it's been said a bunch of times in this thread.

 

How do you disagree that it's not selfish? The fans are booing because they are upset and they want the player to know that. They should know that booing your own team's player doesn't help him to perform better.

 

I don't agree that a player will never respond to being booed, will never feel any additional motivation from it. How do you know this is the case?

[Soul]

while i've never really been into booing the home team, i understand and support peoples right to do so. you won't ever see me do it, and i honestly believe that he was right when he said support is better than whatever else, but again, i get it. zambrano sucked today and should take responsibility for it.

 

what are they supposed to do though really? Standing O when he leaves from another terrible outing? Clap? I really dont know what the alternatives were, and its not like all 40000 there were booing, id say it was a very low percentage as it didnt come across tv well at all.

 

let's not be foolish and suggest that i may believe a standing ovation to be appropriate. i would do nothing and be sad that my team is losing and playing poorly. zambrano (or whatever player is struggling) probably isn't going to benefit from being boo'd. that's just my opinion. if old people at the complexes i mow were to stand around and boo everytime i missed a spot while weedeating, i would probably get nervous and only get worse. that's me, though.

 

Perhaps if you did a poor job and they never said a word you would continue mowing poorly. After all, what does it matter if they don't care?

[Keener98]

while i've never really been into booing the home team, i understand and support peoples right to do so. you won't ever see me do it, and i honestly believe that he was right when he said support is better than whatever else, but again, i get it. zambrano sucked today and should take responsibility for it.

 

what are they supposed to do though really? Standing O when he leaves from another terrible outing? Clap? I really dont know what the alternatives were, and its not like all 40000 there were booing, id say it was a very low percentage as it didnt come across tv well at all.

 

let's not be foolish and suggest that i may believe a standing ovation to be appropriate. i would do nothing and be sad that my team is losing and playing poorly. zambrano (or whatever player is struggling) probably isn't going to benefit from being boo'd. that's just my opinion. if old people at the complexes i mow were to stand around and boo everytime i missed a spot while weedeating, i would probably get nervous and only get worse. that's me, though.

 

I wasnt trying to make you sound foolish at all.

[Soul]

They should know that booing your own team's player doesn't help him to perform better.

 

True, and fans should also know that cheering won't help a player either. The effect of the crowd on the performance of athletes, at least in baseball, isn't all that much.

 

Call me old fashioned, or just a moron. I still believe a team can possibly feed off a crowd during a rally, even though it can't be scientifically quantified.

[Irrelevant Dude]

True, and fans should also know that cheering won't help a player either.

In Zambrano's case, cheering may actually hurt him since he tends to get too pumped up. Maybe if the fans hadn't been cheering so loudly for some of the 3-2 counts, he would have been able to control his emotions enough to throw the third strike, thereby not giving up nearly as many runs today. I vote for the next game to be played in a vaccum.

[BigbadB]

Z is guilty of showing his emotions when he is unhappy with someone's performance. Maybe Z would prefer it if the fans came down to the dugout and punched him in the mouth like he did to Michael Barrett.

 

I'd prefer it if he came out and stated that he knows he's letting the fans of Chicago down by pitching as poorly as he has, and that he is working on ways of pitching better down the stretch.

[3Dog]

True, and fans should also know that cheering won't help a player either.

In Zambrano's case, cheering may actually hurt him since he tends to get too pumped up. Maybe if the fans hadn't been cheering so loudly for some of the 3-2 counts, he would have been able to control his emotions enough to throw the third strike, thereby not giving up nearly as many runs today. I vote for the next game to be played in a vaccum.

 

You actually make a point on my behalf. There are baseball players like Zambrano who allow themselves to get pumped by cheering and addled when booed. They absolutely exist. And they also happen to be streaky performers who I don't have a whole lot of respect for.

[hawkeyecub]

They should know that booing your own team's player doesn't help him to perform better.

 

True, and fans should also know that cheering won't help a player either. The effect of the crowd on the performance of athletes, at least in baseball, isn't all that much.

 

I don't think I agree with that.

 

Players are human. Getting booed causes them to think about that, feel upset/hurt/angry/whatever and probably less comfortable. These things change your mental approach or mindset which is important in baseball.