Catchers' Offense

[RyCubsFan]

We definitely could use an upgrade at catcher. I'm just not sure who would be available.

 

I'd love to get Salty from the Braves, but that would be very expensive. It would cost us one of Hill or Marshall and maybe more, and I don't think our rotation can take that hit right now.

 

 

Soto would be an upgrade. He just hit his 11th home run in Iowa tonight.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

We definitely could use an upgrade at catcher. I'm just not sure who would be available.

 

I'd love to get Salty from the Braves, but that would be very expensive. It would cost us one of Hill or Marshall and maybe more, and I don't think our rotation can take that hit right now.

 

 

Soto would be an upgrade. He just hit his 11th home run in Iowa tonight.

 

Soto would be an upgrade. I still would like to get Salty.

[A New Era]

How is soto's defense to those of us who keep up with minors? Barret like, worse or better?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

How is soto's defense to those of us who keep up with minors? Barret like, worse or better?

 

Much better than Barrett. Fox's defense could be characterized as sub-Barrett.

[RonnieWooWooSanto]

We definitely could use an upgrade at catcher. I'm just not sure who would be available.

 

I'd love to get Salty from the Braves, but that would be very expensive. It would cost us one of Hill or Marshall and maybe more, and I don't think our rotation can take that hit right now.

 

 

Soto would be an upgrade. He just hit his 11th home run in Iowa tonight.

 

Soto would be an upgrade. I still would like to get Salty.

 

Do the Braves have a CF coming up the ranks? In order to get Salty, I would imagine that Schuerholz would look to get Pie & pitching.

 

Pie obviously is not enough for Salty so the Cubs would probably have to include someone along the lines of Marmol or possibly Marshall.

 

Salty for Pie & Marmol - I wouldn't do it.

Salty for Pie & Marshall - I'd take this trade.

[A New Era]

How is soto's defense to those of us who keep up with minors? Barret like, worse or better?

 

Much better than Barrett. Fox's defense could be characterized as sub-Barrett.

 

Ah that's right. Fox was the bad defensive guy I was thinking about. Thanks V.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

If we're going to give up Marshall, it might be nice to get a pitching prospect back from the Braves. Dan Smith is likely off-limits, but Jo-jo Reyes or Matt Harrison could be a possibility.

[RonnieWooWooSanto]

If we're going to give up Marshall, it might be nice to get a pitching prospect back from the Braves. Dan Smith is likely off-limits, but Jo-jo Reyes or Matt Harrison could be a possibility.

 

I just think that because Salty is so high profile (beyone the fact that he is good) the Cubs would have to give up too much.

 

Another interesting avenue would be to approach Seattle. For those that don't know, the Mariners have a good young catching prospect at AAA who is essentially stuck there because they have Johjima.

 

Jeff Clement - 24 years old

 

Numbers this year at Tacoma:

ABs - 261

AVG - .284

HR - 14

OBP - .371

SLG - .533

OPS - .903

[Illini Iceman]

Cub non-Barrett catchers are hitting .157/.228/.241 as catchers in 92 PAs this season. Not sure we can keep that up and compete.

 

yeah, with pie struggling and ss being a question mark, the cubs are likely in trouble offensively.

 

For now, I like Fontenot at SS.

 

Catcher is more important. (plus cf, but hopefully pie can break out of the slump.)

 

Why haven't we brought soto up? Has he been struggling?

 

Probably because we are on a 7 game winning streak yunno? :wink: Hey as long as we are winning keep that core chemistry going!!

 

OK - streak is over - time to give Soto a shot.

 

It is not like I think the catcher needs to be an offensive force on this team, but it seems unlikely to me that the Cubs can sustain any long term success with the truly awful numbers Bowen and Hill are putting up. I can't believe that if the Cubs removed Hill from the 40 man roster and tried to put him through waivers to option him back to Iowa any team would claim him. If they did, it would be no big loss. He is a dime a dozen Paul Bako type player.

[Soul]

For all the Barrett bashing around here, he caught Peavy last night, 1ER 7IP -- threw out a runner trying to steal 3rd.

 

Our pitchers in the meantime have looked less than stellar outside of Z, and Barrett's not within 2000 miles of them.

 

Our pitchers sucked when Barrett was catching because they just aren't all that great, save Z. Now we're talking about Soto as a savior? Hahaha.

[Sarcastic]

For all the Barrett bashing around here, he caught Peavy last night, 1ER 7IP -- threw out a runner trying to steal 3rd.

 

Our pitchers in the meantime have looked less than stellar outside of Z, and Barrett's not within 2000 miles of them.

 

Our pitchers sucked when Barrett was catching because they just aren't all that great, save Z. Now we're talking about Soto as a savior? Hahaha.

 

I never agreed with trading Barrett for peanuts, but considering the state of the Cubs catchers, they need to take the chance on a guy with a solid numbers in the minors.

[BigbadB]

For all the Barrett bashing around here, he caught Peavy last night, 1ER 7IP -- threw out a runner trying to steal 3rd.

 

Our pitchers in the meantime have looked less than stellar outside of Z, and Barrett's not within 2000 miles of them.

 

Our pitchers sucked when Barrett was catching because they just aren't all that great, save Z. Now we're talking about Soto as a savior? Hahaha.

 

The same Barrett had 5 guys steal out of 5 attempts the day before with Chris Young on the mound. One of those steals was Russell Martin stealing 3rd.

 

Barrett was never good at blocking balls, but he's been absolutely brutal this year in regards to passed balls.

 

And 3 guys did still bases successfully against Barrett last night, including Luis Gonzalez.

 

So basically, he nailed 1 out of 9 in the last 2 games.

[BigbadB]

I take that back. 2 of the steals last night came off Josh Bard.

[Soul]

For all the Barrett bashing around here, he caught Peavy last night, 1ER 7IP -- threw out a runner trying to steal 3rd.

 

Our pitchers in the meantime have looked less than stellar outside of Z, and Barrett's not within 2000 miles of them.

 

Our pitchers sucked when Barrett was catching because they just aren't all that great, save Z. Now we're talking about Soto as a savior? Hahaha.

 

The same Barrett had 5 guys steal out of 5 attempts the day before with Chris Young on the mound. One of those steals was Russell Martin stealing 3rd.

 

Barrett was never good at blocking balls, but he's been absolutely brutal this year in regards to passed balls.

 

And 3 guys did still bases successfully against Barrett last night, including Luis Gonzalez.

 

So basically, he nailed 1 out of 9 in the last 2 games.

 

He's never been good at throwing runners out, but I don't see our current batch blowing doors off nailing runners either.

 

My main point is, the whole 'addition by subtraction' thing with Barrett hasn't panned out. Our pitchers have not improved with him gone. Marquis is still a 5.2IP 4ER performance most times out. Marshall is still Marshall. Lilly is still only good when he feels like it. Hill is still sliding.

[BigbadB]

I don't think Barrett was moved because of his poor defense. I think it had a lot more to do with the Cubs just wanting him gone.

 

I wouldn't expect the catching situation to be any better with Hill/Bowen.

[CubColtPacer]

For all the Barrett bashing around here, he caught Peavy last night, 1ER 7IP -- threw out a runner trying to steal 3rd.

 

Our pitchers in the meantime have looked less than stellar outside of Z, and Barrett's not within 2000 miles of them.

 

Our pitchers sucked when Barrett was catching because they just aren't all that great, save Z. Now we're talking about Soto as a savior? Hahaha.

 

The same Barrett had 5 guys steal out of 5 attempts the day before with Chris Young on the mound. One of those steals was Russell Martin stealing 3rd.

 

Barrett was never good at blocking balls, but he's been absolutely brutal this year in regards to passed balls.

 

And 3 guys did still bases successfully against Barrett last night, including Luis Gonzalez.

 

So basically, he nailed 1 out of 9 in the last 2 games.

 

He's never been good at throwing runners out, but I don't see our current batch blowing doors off nailing runners either.

 

My main point is, the whole 'addition by subtraction' thing with Barrett hasn't panned out. Our pitchers have not improved with him gone. Marquis is still a 5.2IP 4ER performance most times out. Marshall is still Marshall. Lilly is still only good when he feels like it. Hill is still sliding.

 

It hasn't not panned out yet either. Barrett has been pretty awful both offensively and defensively for the Padres so far, and Bowen has been beyond awful so far offensively and ok defensively. Right now, it's pretty close to a tie-it will have to be seen which catcher breaks out of their slump first.

[Guest]

For all the Barrett bashing around here, he caught Peavy last night, 1ER 7IP -- threw out a runner trying to steal 3rd.

 

Our pitchers in the meantime have looked less than stellar outside of Z, and Barrett's not within 2000 miles of them.

 

Our pitchers sucked when Barrett was catching because they just aren't all that great, save Z. Now we're talking about Soto as a savior? Hahaha.

 

The same Barrett had 5 guys steal out of 5 attempts the day before with Chris Young on the mound. One of those steals was Russell Martin stealing 3rd.

 

Barrett was never good at blocking balls, but he's been absolutely brutal this year in regards to passed balls.

 

And 3 guys did still bases successfully against Barrett last night, including Luis Gonzalez.

 

So basically, he nailed 1 out of 9 in the last 2 games.

 

What's the big deal with Russell Martin stealing third? He's a fantastic baserunning threat, he's 15/18 in steals on the season.

[abuck1220]

For all the Barrett bashing around here, he caught Peavy last night, 1ER 7IP -- threw out a runner trying to steal 3rd.

 

Our pitchers in the meantime have looked less than stellar outside of Z, and Barrett's not within 2000 miles of them.

 

Our pitchers sucked when Barrett was catching because they just aren't all that great, save Z. Now we're talking about Soto as a savior? Hahaha.

 

The same Barrett had 5 guys steal out of 5 attempts the day before with Chris Young on the mound. One of those steals was Russell Martin stealing 3rd.

 

Barrett was never good at blocking balls, but he's been absolutely brutal this year in regards to passed balls.

 

And 3 guys did still bases successfully against Barrett last night, including Luis Gonzalez.

 

So basically, he nailed 1 out of 9 in the last 2 games.

 

Barrett has thrown out three of the eight runners who have challenged his arm, including the game-tying run in the person of Dave Roberts Tuesday in San Francisco. His 37.5 percent success rate compares favorably to the 11.6 percent rate by Padres catchers before Barrett arrived.

 

look at him go.

[Warren Brusstar]

For all the Barrett bashing around here, he caught Peavy last night, 1ER 7IP -- threw out a runner trying to steal 3rd.

 

Our pitchers in the meantime have looked less than stellar outside of Z, and Barrett's not within 2000 miles of them.

 

Our pitchers sucked when Barrett was catching because they just aren't all that great, save Z. Now we're talking about Soto as a savior? Hahaha.

 

The same Barrett had 5 guys steal out of 5 attempts the day before with Chris Young on the mound. One of those steals was Russell Martin stealing 3rd.

 

Barrett was never good at blocking balls, but he's been absolutely brutal this year in regards to passed balls.

 

And 3 guys did still bases successfully against Barrett last night, including Luis Gonzalez.

 

So basically, he nailed 1 out of 9 in the last 2 games.

 

Opposing baserunners are 26 for 26 stealing against Chris Young this year. It's disingenous to suggest that Barrett is at fault for the three steals the other night.

Edited July 7, 2007 by Warren Brusstar

[CubColtPacer]

For all the Barrett bashing around here, he caught Peavy last night, 1ER 7IP -- threw out a runner trying to steal 3rd.

 

Our pitchers in the meantime have looked less than stellar outside of Z, and Barrett's not within 2000 miles of them.

 

Our pitchers sucked when Barrett was catching because they just aren't all that great, save Z. Now we're talking about Soto as a savior? Hahaha.

 

The same Barrett had 5 guys steal out of 5 attempts the day before with Chris Young on the mound. One of those steals was Russell Martin stealing 3rd.

 

Barrett was never good at blocking balls, but he's been absolutely brutal this year in regards to passed balls.

 

And 3 guys did still bases successfully against Barrett last night, including Luis Gonzalez.

 

So basically, he nailed 1 out of 9 in the last 2 games.

 

Barrett has thrown out three of the eight runners who have challenged his arm, including the game-tying run in the person of Dave Roberts Tuesday in San Francisco. His 37.5 percent success rate compares favorably to the 11.6 percent rate by Padres catchers before Barrett arrived.

 

look at him go.

 

That's a very old report. Barrett is now 4 out of 18. His percentage thrown out is also up because teams are running on him more than they did the combo of Bard/Bowen.

[Tracer Bullet]

For all the Barrett bashing around here, he caught Peavy last night, 1ER 7IP -- threw out a runner trying to steal 3rd.

 

Our pitchers in the meantime have looked less than stellar outside of Z, and Barrett's not within 2000 miles of them.

 

Our pitchers sucked when Barrett was catching because they just aren't all that great, save Z. Now we're talking about Soto as a savior? Hahaha.

 

The same Barrett had 5 guys steal out of 5 attempts the day before with Chris Young on the mound. One of those steals was Russell Martin stealing 3rd.

 

Barrett was never good at blocking balls, but he's been absolutely brutal this year in regards to passed balls.

 

And 3 guys did still bases successfully against Barrett last night, including Luis Gonzalez.

 

So basically, he nailed 1 out of 9 in the last 2 games.

 

He allowed Russell Martin to steal twice, Pierre 3 times, and Furcal once. We're really going to hold that against him? Especially when the Padres pitchers are pretty well regarded as not good at holding runners? The Dodgers steal a lot of bases - I think you're kind of cherry-picking here.

[chattbaseball]

Chipper Jones just had the third stolen base of the game off of Barrett....

[UK1679666180]

While Barrett has a below avg. arm, Maddux can make a C w/a good arm throw late to 2B often.

[Keener98]

Chipper Jones just had the third stolen base of the game off of Barrett....

 

LMAO umm I think you forgot to say who was pitching. Greg Maddux enough said Just about every throw by Barret has been there tonight but with Maddux the catcher has no chance. Oh and Barret had a single tonight, I wish we could say that about our own catchers

[biittner77]

CERA is a very important concept. It is a way to show who is better at calling pitches. The pitchers are the same, so obviously there is a difference. Defense behind the dish is vital to a team's success.

 

2001 - Miller

2002 - Molina

2003 - Rodriguez

2004 - Varitek

2005 - Pierzynski

2006 - Another Molina

 

4 of the last 6 seasons a defensive standout catcher's team has won the WS. That's a nice tradition the Cubs don't have.

 

CERA is mostly worthless even when used to compare catchers on the same team since so many factors change from game to game (opponent, lineup, weather conditions, etc.) CERA is completely worthless when comparing catchers that don't play for the same team.

 

As for the list of defensive catchers above, I'd say their team's success probably had more to do with the pitching staff they were catching rather than their ability to cause a call a good game.