The Cubs are simply not clutch

[Banedon]

I don't see alot of team chemistry yet, do you?

 

Not too many team chemistry stats available. How do you measure chemistry? By winning record?

 

Sorry, I'm just not a believer in team chemistry.

[Banedon]

The Cubs had bases loaded and nobody out in the 8th. How many did they score? The answer is zero.

 

It's okay to give the bullpen their full share of blame, but let's not give a pass to the Cubs offense. They had a chance to seal that game up in the 8th, and blew it. I still feel they need to get another bat or two (preferably starting at SS).

 

Did I mention today how much I dislike Izturis as a player?

 

Hoops

 

Don't you think that the statistics for "close and late" for the entire season is more representative than a single inning?

[cubweiser03]

Its just a pile of crap. No matter how you slice and dice it, its still a pile of crap. If its not one thing its another. I cant believe this team is the worst in 1 run games.

[CubinNY]

This game was lost in the 8th inning when the Cubs had basesloaded and no outs and failed to score a run. Dempster was just icing.

[killthegoat06]

The thread title is simply a fact of life, just like gravity. You can try o change it or think that it's changed, but it's never gonna happen.

[kente777]

I don't see alot of team chemistry yet, do you?

 

Not too many team chemistry stats available. How do you measure chemistry? By winning record?

 

Sorry, I'm just not a believer in team chemistry.

 

I absolutely believe in team chemistry. Lou apparently encouraged the players to have a player's meeting so he could find out if he was "losing the team." Why is it important for Lou to know he was losing the team? Was it a pride thing for him or could it be he realizes that if the team is not happy, they will not play well? If he had lost the team, overall team morale would have negatively affected play. When a team is happy, they affect one another in a positive way.

 

Yes, baseball relies on individuality more than any other team sport. However, you can't tell me that chemistry doesn't affect the ability of a team to put together long winning or losing streaks. When a team drags it feet to the ballpark because they are frustrated or unhappy, it can and does affect the way the whole team plays.

 

We will have to agree to disagree on this one.

Edited June 11, 2007 by kente777

[TruffleShuffle]

the cubs simply are not good

[abuck1220]

In "close and late" situations...or situations that require "clutch" performances, the Cubs have scored the 3rd most runs in the MLB...they have the 4th best average, and the 8th best OPS.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggregate?statType=batting&group=9&seasonType=2&type=reg&sort=runs&split=60&season=2007

 

Meanwhile, the pitching "close and late" is 25th in ERA, and has given up the more walks than any other team in baseball.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggregate?statType=pitching&group=9&seasonType=2&type=reg&sort=walks&split=60&season=2007

 

Those are certainly good stats...and definitely prove that the Cubs main problem is the bullpen.

 

However, I will say it again, did anyone actually believe the Cubs would score in the 9th last night when behind? I turned the game off after the eighth...did they even get on base in the 9th?

 

no team wins a lot of games in which they trail going into the 9th.

[kente777]

the cubs simply are not good

 

I am negative because I am a Cubs fan. Being a Cubs fan makes me negative. However, it seems that all the "experts" think that the Cubs are the most talented team in the Central. If Lou can get the bullpen straightened out, we have a good chance.

 

I appreciate the stats on RISP and late inning runs. It makes me feel a tiny bit better.

[Banedon]

We will have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

And that's fine. It's just my belief that good play leads to a happy team, not the other way around. A happy bad team is still bad. I'll take the unhappy good team.

[jersey cubs fan]

Good golly, what a bunch of nonsense.

[kente777]

We will have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

And that's fine. It's just my belief that good play leads to a happy team, not the other way around. A happy bad team is still bad. I'll take the unhappy good team.

 

I always like to use the example of a guy at a job. If a guy likes where he works, and enjoys the work environment (likes his boss, etc.), then his production will be much better than a guy who hates coming to his job. I happen to think intrinsic motivation is very important to outward production. I believe attitude also affects those around him. Ever work with a real jerk? One bad apple can reallly affect a work environment. Definitely been there.

 

However, in baseball, if you don't have talent, then intrinsic motivation can only get you so far. However, I refuse to negate its importance and impact, even with a team with less talent. :)

Edited June 11, 2007 by kente777

[TruffleShuffle]

the cubs simply are not good

 

I am negative because I am a Cubs fan. Being a Cubs fan makes me negative. However, it seems that all the "experts" think that the Cubs are the most talented team in the Central. If Lou can get the bullpen straightened out, we have a good chance.

 

I'd disagree because I think the Brewers are more talented than the Cubs. I'm not sure how Lou is gonna get the bullpen straigthened out... he can't throw the ball for them, and they're just not that good in general.

[chopsx9]

Does anyone have an overall MLB line for batters in "clutch" or "late and close" situations and then an overall line for all other situations (so this would be the average line for a player not including the above situations)??

 

There may be ways to sort that on MLB.com. From what I've seen, as long as a player has enough at-bats in close and late, etc. , their stats will be very similar to their career stats.

 

I was looking for the league as a whole not an individual player - is there anywhere to find this?

[Soul]

As I watched the Cubs let last nights game slip away, I thought about the difference between the Braves and the Cubs. The Braves are never out of it. Last night was their 11th win after being behind after the 7th. The Cubs are 3-13 in 1 run games.

 

There my friends is the difference between a playoff team (or at least one that has a chance) and one who has no ability to come from behind.

 

I think this is going to be a long season.

 

Ken

 

Maybe so. But it's pretty tough to be "clutch" when the umps cut your head off and crap down your throat.

[wade]

Does anyone have an overall MLB line for batters in "clutch" or "late and close" situations and then an overall line for all other situations (so this would be the average line for a player not including the above situations)??

 

There may be ways to sort that on MLB.com. From what I've seen, as long as a player has enough at-bats in close and late, etc. , their stats will be very similar to their career stats.

 

I was looking for the league as a whole not an individual player - is there anywhere to find this?

 

:google:

 

http://www.chicagosportsreview.com/localopinion/localopinionview.asp?c=145516

 

from the article-

 

"...we do know that in the long run, players hit very close to their normal levels in clutch situations. I looked at all players from 1987-2001 who had at least 6000 plate appearances. The player with the biggest difference between his CL average and his overall average was Tino Martinez at 22 points. With about 100 CL at-bats in a season, this is just two hits."

 

Unless you have sample size problems, players will pretty much hit in clutch times of a game about the same as they do any other time.

 

Now, I think there are guys that are more comfortable in big situations in big games, because players are human- but stats would show that your MLB line for clutch and non-clutch hitting numbers would be crazy close.

[TruffleShuffle]

As I watched the Cubs let last nights game slip away, I thought about the difference between the Braves and the Cubs. The Braves are never out of it. Last night was their 11th win after being behind after the 7th. The Cubs are 3-13 in 1 run games.

 

There my friends is the difference between a playoff team (or at least one that has a chance) and one who has no ability to come from behind.

 

I think this is going to be a long season.

 

Ken

 

Maybe so. But it's pretty tough to be "clutch" when the umps cut your head off and crap down your throat.

 

the cubs got boned last night, but to start heaving blame at the umps is to ignore the fact that the cubs have a bad record because they haven't played well and haven't won close games.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

We need more HEART and GRITTINESS in our lineup.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

We need more HEART and GRITTINESS in our lineup.

 

no, it's all about FIRE and INTENSITY

[Electron Blue]

Does anyone have an overall MLB line for batters in "clutch" or "late and close" situations and then an overall line for all other situations (so this would be the average line for a player not including the above situations)??

 

There may be ways to sort that on MLB.com. From what I've seen, as long as a player has enough at-bats in close and late, etc. , their stats will be very similar to their career stats.

 

I was looking for the league as a whole not an individual player - is there anywhere to find this?

 

:google:

 

http://www.chicagosportsreview.com/localopinion/localopinionview.asp?c=145516

 

from the article-

 

"...we do know that in the long run, players hit very close to their normal levels in clutch situations. I looked at all players from 1987-2001 who had at least 6000 plate appearances. The player with the biggest difference between his CL average and his overall average was Tino Martinez at 22 points. With about 100 CL at-bats in a season, this is just two hits."

 

Unless you have sample size problems, players will pretty much hit in clutch times of a game about the same as they do any other time.

 

Now, I think there are guys that are more comfortable in big situations in big games, because players are human- but stats would show that your MLB line for clutch and non-clutch hitting numbers would be crazy close.

 

Posts like this make me think, for just a fleeting moment, that one day the clutch argument will die. Unfortunately, it never will. Thanks for the stats though, I enjoy them ;)

[abuck1220]

Good golly, what a bunch of nonsense.

 

truly a classic thread.

[Exile on Waveland]

Clutch or no, I think "close and late" stats are spurious. I pay no attention to stats like this, so forgive me if I'm wrong, but I believe it's defined as late innings +/- 3 runs. I'm sorry, but hitting a solo homerun up three runs in the ninth isn't clutch. This certainly isn't an argument for clutch, but simply for a better statistic to refute clutch.

[kente777]

Bases loaded with no outs TWICE in 3 games and the Cubs fail to score a run.

 

If that isn't lack of "clutch" hitting, I don't know what is. Oh, and just a side note...the Cubs lost both games when having this great opportunity.

 

Playoff teams take advantage of those opportunities. Inference???

 

Ken

[killthegoat06]

Bases loaded with no outs TWICE in 3 games and the Cubs fail to score a run.

 

If that isn't lack of "clutch" hitting, I don't know what is. Oh, and just a side note...the Cubs lost both games when having this great opportunity.

 

Playoff teams take advantage of those opportunities. Inference???

 

Ken

 

How about the fake rally in the 13th?

[Fred Hornkohl]

Bases loaded with no outs TWICE in 3 games and the Cubs fail to score a run.

 

If that isn't lack of "clutch" hitting, I don't know what is. Oh, and just a side note...the Cubs lost both games when having this great opportunity.

 

Playoff teams take advantage of those opportunities. Inference???

 

Ken

 

How about the fake rally in the 13th?

 

They didn't actually load the bases until there were 2 out, but the point is made, just the same.

 

BOTTOM OF THE THIRTEENTH INNING

 

Putz in to pitch for Seattle

Jones called out on strikes

Theriot singled to right field

Pie singled to left field , Theriot to second

Fontenot lined out to second base

Soriano walked , Theriot to third, Pie to second

K Hill, pinch hitting for Gallagher, grounded out to first, 3-1

 

0 runs 2 hits 0 errors 3 men left on base