The Cubs are simply not clutch

[kente777]

As I watched the Cubs let last nights game slip away, I thought about the difference between the Braves and the Cubs. The Braves are never out of it. Last night was their 11th win after being behind after the 7th. The Cubs are 3-13 in 1 run games.

 

There my friends is the difference between a playoff team (or at least one that has a chance) and one who has no ability to come from behind.

 

I think this is going to be a long season.

 

Ken

[third eye]

While I agree that the 3-13 mark does illustrate that the Cubs are not currently a playoff team, I disagree that it is because they can't come from behind. They have staged some fairly sizable combacks only to see the bullpen blow those games. Last night was another example, though Dempster has been fairly solid this year. The single biggest factor in their awful 1-run record has been the bullpen. It does look like there are some signs of it settling down, as Ohman and Howry have started to look better. In any case, I dont think this can be chalked up to the offense's inability to come back.

 

By the way, I'd expect a storm of rolled eyes and sarcastic responses to the title of this thread, given this board's objection to the concept of "clutch"...

[ConstableRabbit]

A large reason we're 3-13 in 1-run games is because our bullpen has been complete crap.

 

Please, enough with the "clutchness." We lead the league in BA with RISP if that means anything to you.

[Amazing_Grace]

A large reason we're 3-13 in 1-run games is because our bullpen has been complete crap.

 

Please, enough with the "clutchness." We lead the league in BA with RISP if that means anything to you.

 

QFT, the pen stinks, and Lou has made it worse by using two of the worst guys, Howry and Eyre, in critical situations all year.

[Banedon]

In "close and late" situations...or situations that require "clutch" performances, the Cubs have scored the 3rd most runs in the MLB...they have the 4th best average, and the 8th best OPS.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggregate?statType=batting&group=9&seasonType=2&type=reg&sort=runs&split=60&season=2007

 

Meanwhile, the pitching "close and late" is 25th in ERA, and has given up the more walks than any other team in baseball.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggregate?statType=pitching&group=9&seasonType=2&type=reg&sort=walks&split=60&season=2007

Edited June 11, 2007 by Banedon

[kente777]

A large reason we're 3-13 in 1-run games is because our bullpen has been complete crap.

 

Please, enough with the "clutchness." We lead the league in BA with RISP if that means anything to you.

 

Yes, I agree that the Bullpen is a major problem, and certainly one that let last nights game go. But after we went down 5-4 in the 8th, did you have any faith....any faith at all....that this club would actually score in the 9th?

 

I'm sorry, but I do not believe batting average and RISP does not equate to being able to score late when behind. There are a lot of relievers that are good, but not many have what it takes to be a closer...shut down an opposing team when it really matters. Maybe "clutch" was the wrong word to use. Perhaps "poise" might be better. It seems like when the Cubs are behind in the late innings, we can't score. Can this team score WHEN IT REALLY MATTERS?

 

I don't know the stat, but perhaps someone could find out how many runs this year we have scored in the last two innings.

 

Ken

Edited June 11, 2007 by kente777

[Chocolate Milk]

oof

[Banedon]

I don't know the stat, but perhaps someone could find out how many runs this year we have scored in the last two innings.

 

Actually, "Close and late" is the stat you want, because who cares how many runs are scored in the 8th and 9th innings of blowouts?

 

And I listed the close and late stats above. It just doesn't mesh with what you're saying.

[kente777]

In "close and late" situations...or situations that require "clutch" performances, the Cubs have scored the 3rd most runs in the MLB...they have the 4th best average, and the 8th best OPS.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggregate?statType=batting&group=9&seasonType=2&type=reg&sort=runs&split=60&season=2007

 

Meanwhile, the pitching "close and late" is 25th in ERA, and has given up the more walks than any other team in baseball.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggregate?statType=pitching&group=9&seasonType=2&type=reg&sort=walks&split=60&season=2007

 

Those are certainly good stats...and definitely prove that the Cubs main problem is the bullpen.

 

However, I will say it again, did anyone actually believe the Cubs would score in the 9th last night when behind? I turned the game off after the eighth...did they even get on base in the 9th?

[CubColtPacer]

It's been a variety of factors. In April, the bullpen was pretty good, but the offense couldn't score in the late innings. Since May 1st, the offense has been great at scoring in the late innings, but the bullpen was awful during May. In June now, it looks like the bullpen is coming back-

 

Howry's last 6 outings-6 1/3 IP, 4 H, 0 R, 6 K/1BB

Wuertz's last 5-5 IP, 4 H, 1 R, 2 K/1BB

Ohman's last 11-6 2/3 IP, 7 H, 2 R, 11K/2BB

Marmol's last 11 outings-12 IP, 7 H, 2 R, 13K/4BB

Dempster's last 10 outings-9 1/3 IP, 7H, 3 R, 7K/5BB

Even Eyre has been slightly better lately (only 2 runs in his last 5 innings and 5 in his last 13 1/3 innings-not good, but better than April Eyre).

 

Those top 5 together have been very, very good the last couple of weeks. If that continues at all, the Cubs record in 1 run games should improve.

[Banedon]

However, I will say it again, did anyone actually believe the Cubs would score in the 9th last night when behind? I turned the game off after the eighth...did they even get on base in the 9th?

 

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at. I've shown you proof that the Cubs hit and score in clutch situations. But they can't pitch at all in those same situations. But because you were pessimistic after the bullpen blew the lead, you want to throw out the stats and say you have no faith in a comeback?

 

You have every right to feel pessimistic about this team...I sure am. But I think you're focusing it on the wrong area of the team.

[kente777]

However, I will say it again, did anyone actually believe the Cubs would score in the 9th last night when behind? I turned the game off after the eighth...did they even get on base in the 9th?

 

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at. I've shown you proof that the Cubs hit and score in clutch situations. But they can't pitch at all in those same situations. But because you were pessimistic after the bullpen blew the lead, you want to throw out the stats and say you have no faith in a comeback?

 

You have every right to feel pessimistic about this team...I sure am. But I think you're focusing it on the wrong area of the team.

 

Ok...stats don't lie. But I'm talking about perception. When I watch the Red Sox or the Angels, I see a team confident in its abilities...teams that can win when down in the 8th or 9th.

 

Has this team gotten better at "clutch" this year as compared to the Dusty teams? Absolutely. Stats don't lie. But I still feel that when this team is behind going into the 8th and the 9th, we will not come back. Again, it's just a perception. That probably comes from sucking for so many years, but nevertheless it's still there. And the question is, does the team BELIEVE it is in every ballgame? I don't see alot of team chemistry yet, do you?

 

BTW, did the Cubs get a runner on base in the 9th last night?

[XZero771679666304]

However, I will say it again, did anyone actually believe the Cubs would score in the 9th last night when behind? I turned the game off after the eighth...did they even get on base in the 9th?

 

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at. I've shown you proof that the Cubs hit and score in clutch situations. But they can't pitch at all in those same situations. But because you were pessimistic after the bullpen blew the lead, you want to throw out the stats and say you have no faith in a comeback?

 

You have every right to feel pessimistic about this team...I sure am. But I think you're focusing it on the wrong area of the team.

 

Ok...stats don't lie. But I'm talking about perception. When I watch the Red Sox or the Angels, I see a team confident in its abilities...teams that can win when down in the 8th or 9th.

 

Has this team gotten better at "clutch" this year as compared to the Dusty teams. Absolutely. Stats don't lie. But I still feel that when this team is behind going into the 8th and the 9th, we will not come back. Again, it's just a perception. Maybe from past years, but nevertheless it's still there.

 

BTW, did the Cubs get a runner on base in the 9th last night?

 

Expecting the Cubs to mount a comeback every time they are behind late is totally unreasonable. Even half the time is unrealistic, even for "clutch" teams. By mounting a comeback, I mean even an unsuccessful one. Teams have closers for a reason, and even the mediocre ones shut teams down 80% of the time.

 

So the Cubs didn't get a runner on base in the 9th last night? So what? If a team gets runners on base in close and late situations even a third of the time, they're doing pretty well.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Wasn't this the prevalent opinion in 2004? We were awful in 1-run games, then in 2005 we were awesome at them, but we sucked overall. Or am I mixing up the years?

[wade]

However, I will say it again, did anyone actually believe the Cubs would score in the 9th last night when behind? I turned the game off after the eighth...did they even get on base in the 9th?

 

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at. I've shown you proof that the Cubs hit and score in clutch situations. But they can't pitch at all in those same situations. But because you were pessimistic after the bullpen blew the lead, you want to throw out the stats and say you have no faith in a comeback?

 

You have every right to feel pessimistic about this team...I sure am. But I think you're focusing it on the wrong area of the team.

 

Ok...stats don't lie. But I'm talking about perception. When I watch the Red Sox or the Angels, I see a team confident in its abilities...teams that can win when down in the 8th or 9th.

 

You're talking about perception and you cite two winning teams. I think if you follow a team that is 10 games over .500, you're going to see more come from behind victories because they have way more victories.

[chopsx9]

Does anyone have an overall MLB line for batters in "clutch" or "late and close" situations and then an overall line for all other situations (so this would be the average line for a player not including the above situations)??

[wade]

Does anyone have an overall MLB line for batters in "clutch" or "late and close" situations and then an overall line for all other situations (so this would be the average line for a player not including the above situations)??

 

There may be ways to sort that on MLB.com. From what I've seen, as long as a player has enough at-bats in close and late, etc. , their stats will be very similar to their career stats.

[HoopsCubs]

The Cubs had bases loaded and nobody out in the 8th. How many did they score? The answer is zero.

 

It's okay to give the bullpen their full share of blame, but let's not give a pass to the Cubs offense. They had a chance to seal that game up in the 8th, and blew it. I still feel they need to get another bat or two (preferably starting at SS).

 

Did I mention today how much I dislike Izturis as a player?

 

Hoops

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I'm more willing to place the 1-run record on Lou rather than the players. His bullpen management makes me wonder if he's point shaving.

[MustangMike]

In "close and late" situations...or situations that require "clutch" performances, the Cubs have scored the 3rd most runs in the MLB...they have the 4th best average, and the 8th best OPS.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggregate?statType=batting&group=9&seasonType=2&type=reg&sort=runs&split=60&season=2007

 

Meanwhile, the pitching "close and late" is 25th in ERA, and has given up the more walks than any other team in baseball.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggregate?statType=pitching&group=9&seasonType=2&type=reg&sort=walks&split=60&season=2007

 

I thought the offense did well, albeit without the inning with the bases juiced, no outs, and a 2 run lead. Get a few in and that game is over...even 1 would have made a difference. That was serious momentum for Atlanta to get out of that jam.

[Sarcastic]

I'm more willing to place the 1-run record on Lou rather than the players. His bullpen management makes me wonder if he's point shaving.

 

Oddly, it was his decision not to use Eyre, the blower of leads, that led to the collapse yesterday. Many of the losses rest on Lou's inability to recognize that certain pitchers should not be on the mound with the game on the line. This was not one of those losses.

[wade]

The Cubs had bases loaded and nobody out in the 8th. How many did they score? The answer is zero.

 

It's okay to give the bullpen their full share of blame, but let's not give a pass to the Cubs offense. They had a chance to seal that game up in the 8th, and blew it. I still feel they need to get another bat or two (preferably starting at SS).

 

Did I mention today how much I dislike Izturis as a player?

Hoops

 

This was my main thought on Izturis last night. His one value is supposed to be his defense. On the ground ball Derosa dove for, Izturis should have been able to dive/ smother/ knock down and save a run. He tried a running backhand play and it looked to me like laying out (as good as he's supposed to be) would have stopped that ball and held the guy at third.

[wade]

I'm more willing to place the 1-run record on Lou rather than the players. His bullpen management makes me wonder if he's point shaving.

 

Oddly, it was his decision not to use Eyre, the blower of leads, that led to the collapse yesterday. Many of the losses rest on Lou's inability to recognize that certain pitchers should not be on the mound with the game on the line. This was not one of those losses.

 

I think Dempster faced about 4 lefties out of 5 batters to start the god awful eighth. Of course, Eyre's been terrible against lefties this year.

[Careless]

In "close and late" situations...or situations that require "clutch" performances, the Cubs have scored the 3rd most runs in the MLB...they have the 4th best average, and the 8th best OPS.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggregate?statType=batting&group=9&seasonType=2&type=reg&sort=runs&split=60&season=2007

 

Meanwhile, the pitching "close and late" is 25th in ERA, and has given up the more walks than any other team in baseball.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggregate?statType=pitching&group=9&seasonType=2&type=reg&sort=walks&split=60&season=2007

so our bullpen isn't clutch?

[Sarcastic]

I'm more willing to place the 1-run record on Lou rather than the players. His bullpen management makes me wonder if he's point shaving.

 

Oddly, it was his decision not to use Eyre, the blower of leads, that led to the collapse yesterday. Many of the losses rest on Lou's inability to recognize that certain pitchers should not be on the mound with the game on the line. This was not one of those losses.

 

I think Dempster faced about 4 lefties out of 5 batters to start the god awful eighth. Of course, Eyre's been terrible against lefties this year.

 

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that Eyre's line against lefties is worse than his line against righties at this point. I don't care who is batting, you can't send Eyre up in that situation. Lou made the right call, and Dempster blew it. That kind of thing is bound to happen occasionally. It would probably happen less often if Lou used the right relievers in the right situations more often.