I get the feeling Lou doesn't like Ohman

[jersey cubs fan]

Looking at the Cub relief staff, Eyre, Cotts, Wuertz and Dempster all have walk ratios from 4.5 to 4.65 and we wonder why there is a continual bullpen problem. Only Howry's 3.11 is stellar.

 

Is that even stellar? Seems to me the truly great ones are usually around 1-1.2 per 9, and that there's a significant chunk that are under 2 per 9. What sort of ranking would 3.11 be? I'm guessing it's better than average, but not really all that impressive.

[sunnydoo]

Another outstanding freaking job by Ohman and Howry again tonight.

 

Another reason to hate the LOOGY. The opposing manager with plenty of righty help off the bench just pinch hits for the lefty and walla...big inning explosion time. Ohman couldnt get Mario freaking Mendoza out at this point. I seriously dont think he could get Mario Lopez out if he were to bat right handed.

 

Ohman is an absolute joke. Time to get him and Howry the old #76 uni b/c when you see them coming its time for Unocal.

[sethuel1]

That's simply not the case if he's used correctly. I don't understand why people seem so unwilling to believe this.

 

That may be true, but last time that I checked, there were 3 LH RP in the Cubs BP. If the SP goes out early, that creates a problem. You can't use a guy like Ohman to pitch to just one LH batter each game. That is a waste of a roster spot.

And is also the reason why LOOGYs do not exist. Even the word LOOGY does not exist.

[TruffleShuffle]

Another outstanding freaking job by Ohman and Howry again tonight.

 

Another reason to hate the LOOGY. The opposing manager with plenty of righty help off the bench just pinch hits for the lefty and walla...big inning explosion time. Ohman couldnt get Mario freaking Mendoza out at this point. I seriously dont think he could get Mario Lopez out if he were to bat right handed.

 

Ohman is an absolute joke. Time to get him and Howry the old #76 uni b/c when you see them coming its time for Unocal.

 

give me a break. He pitched to one batter, pitched him pretty tough and ended up giving up a ground ball up the middle. Howry was the real culprit... he really has to get his act together or he and Eyre will be Useless #1 and 1A.

[Keener98]

Another outstanding freaking job by Ohman and Howry again tonight.

 

Another reason to hate the LOOGY. The opposing manager with plenty of righty help off the bench just pinch hits for the lefty and walla...big inning explosion time. Ohman couldnt get Mario freaking Mendoza out at this point. I seriously dont think he could get Mario Lopez out if he were to bat right handed.

 

Ohman is an absolute joke. Time to get him and Howry the old #76 uni b/c when you see them coming its time for Unocal.

 

give me a break. He pitched to one batter, pitched him pretty tough and ended up giving up a ground ball up the middle. Howry was the real culprit... he really has to get his act together or he and Eyre will be Useless #1 and 1A.

 

Its his job to pitch to one batter and get that batter out. He threw slider after slider after slider and gave up a hit. He didnt do his job once again when called upon.

[TruffleShuffle]

Another outstanding freaking job by Ohman and Howry again tonight.

 

Another reason to hate the LOOGY. The opposing manager with plenty of righty help off the bench just pinch hits for the lefty and walla...big inning explosion time. Ohman couldnt get Mario freaking Mendoza out at this point. I seriously dont think he could get Mario Lopez out if he were to bat right handed.

 

Ohman is an absolute joke. Time to get him and Howry the old #76 uni b/c when you see them coming its time for Unocal.

 

give me a break. He pitched to one batter, pitched him pretty tough and ended up giving up a ground ball up the middle. Howry was the real culprit... he really has to get his act together or he and Eyre will be Useless #1 and 1A.

 

Its his job to pitch to one batter and get that batter out. He threw slider after slider after slider and gave up a hit. He didnt do his job once again when called upon.

 

and it's Derrek Lee's job to get a hit... he didn't do that in at least a couple of ABs yesterday, let's crucify him too.

[sunnydoo]

and it's Derrek Lee's job to get a hit... he didn't do that in at least a couple of ABs yesterday, let's crucify him too.

 

Ya thats an apt comparison...someone leading the league in hittting vs. someone who should be pitching in AA ball.

 

Ohman is a joke. The bullpen is a joke. The loogy system is a joke.

 

And yes, Howry should have more of blame than Ohgiirl. But this is about a pattern and Ohman fails.

[TruffleShuffle]

and it's Derrek Lee's job to get a hit... he didn't do that in at least a couple of ABs yesterday, let's crucify him too.

 

Ya thats an apt comparison...someone leading the league in hittting vs. someone who should be pitching in AA ball.

 

Ohman is a joke. The bullpen is a joke. The loogy system is a joke.

 

And yes, Howry should have more of blame than Ohgiirl. But this is about a pattern and Ohman fails.

 

clever nickname. come up with that one yourself?

[YearofDaCubs]

i don't see how you can blame Ohman at all for this one. He was throwing good pitches and it was a grounder that went right through the middle. Howry is very hittable right now. You can tell his velocity is down and is not the same pitcher from last year. At the very least you have to move him from the set up role. Move Guz, or Marmol for 7th inning and Wuertz to 8th with Demp as closer.

[TruffleShuffle]

hey ohman faced one batter today with the bases loaded and got him out.... i guess he's awesome now.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Ohman got a big out today.

[TruffleShuffle]

Ohman got a big out today.

 

and in what is becoming typical lou style, he wasn't even used in the right way.

[MPC]

Ohman got a big out today.

 

and in what is becoming typical lou style, he wasn't even used in the right way.

 

he brought ohman in to face a lefty, but they pinched him jeff kent for him.

[sunnydoo]

and in what is becoming typical lou style, he wasn't even used in the right way.

 

silly.

 

so i guess Lou can only use Ohman when his psychic or ouiji board tell him that the other manager isnt going to pinch hit.

 

So the situation to use Ohman now is day games only, with 1 man on not in scoring position, lefty coming to the plate and the opposing manager wont let pinch hit for him.

 

Good to have him available just in that case. :roll:

[Derwood]

and in what is becoming typical lou style, he wasn't even used in the right way.

 

silly.

 

so i guess Lou can only use Ohman when his psychic or ouiji board tell him that the other manager isnt going to pinch hit.

 

So the situation to use Ohman now is day games only, with 1 man on not in scoring position, lefty coming to the plate and the opposing manager wont let pinch hit for him.

 

Good to have him available just in that case. :roll:

 

people who keep typing "Ohman" should not be allowed to use the eyeroll

[sunnydoo]

And people with a .378 OBPA shouldnt be allowed in the game in a serious situation either. They need to be pitching in AAA.

[TruffleShuffle]

and in what is becoming typical lou style, he wasn't even used in the right way.

 

silly.

 

so i guess Lou can only use Ohman when his psychic or ouiji board tell him that the other manager isnt going to pinch hit.

 

So the situation to use Ohman now is day games only, with 1 man on not in scoring position, lefty coming to the plate and the opposing manager wont let pinch hit for him.

 

Good to have him available just in that case. :roll:

 

Wrong. :roll:

 

There was righthanded hitter in the opposing dugout who is a better hitter than the guy at the plate. Kent has a 311/394/518/912 line against LHP the past three years, and has been hot, with a 1.531 OPS in the past week.

 

On the other hand, Gonzalez has a 272/369/473/842 line against RHP from 2004-06, and has been even worse than that in 2006 and the first part of 2007.

 

Being as it's obviously a key situation in the game, do you want your closer pitching against Luis Gonzalez, or Ohman pitching against Jeff Kent? Anybody with half a brain (apparently this doesn't include Lou Piniella) knew that Kent would hit for Gonzalez there, so you're weighing those two options. I'd prefer Dempster against the weaker hitter, and so would anybody with an ounce of common sense.

[TruffleShuffle]

And people with a .378 OBPA shouldnt be allowed in the game in a serious situation either. They need to be pitching in AAA.

 

might want to check that math, pythagoras. His OBPA is .304, which unfortunately for your poorly-formulated argument is worse than three members of the Cubs' bullpen (Howry, Guzman, Eyre) and is only .005 worse than everybody's savior, Michael Wuertz.

[CubColtPacer]

and in what is becoming typical lou style, he wasn't even used in the right way.

 

silly.

 

so i guess Lou can only use Ohman when his psychic or ouiji board tell him that the other manager isnt going to pinch hit.

 

So the situation to use Ohman now is day games only, with 1 man on not in scoring position, lefty coming to the plate and the opposing manager wont let pinch hit for him.

 

Good to have him available just in that case. :roll:

 

Wrong. :roll:

 

There was righthanded hitter in the opposing dugout who is a better hitter than the guy at the plate. Kent has a 311/394/518/912 line against LHP the past three years, and has been hot, with a 1.531 OPS in the past week.

 

On the other hand, Gonzalez has a 272/369/473/842 line against RHP from 2004-06, and has been even worse than that in 2006 and the first part of 2007.

 

Being as it's obviously a key situation in the game, do you want your closer pitching against Luis Gonzalez, or Ohman pitching against Jeff Kent? Anybody with half a brain (apparently this doesn't include Lou Piniella) knew that Kent would hit for Gonzalez there, so you're weighing those two options. I'd prefer Dempster against the weaker hitter, and so would anybody with an ounce of common sense.

 

Bring Dempster in to face a left-hander in a key spot? That's just as bad or worse as bringing in Ohman to face a right-hander. Here are their 3 year splits:

 

Ohman vs RHB: .239/.349/.369

Dempster vs LHB: .286/.394/.401

 

BTW, Luis Gonzalez is 10 for 18 career against Dempster with a double, 2 home runs, 3 walks, and 0 K's-a .556/.636/.944 line for his career.

 

Interestingly enough, Gonzalez is 4/6 against Ohman with 2 doubles, a home run, and a walk, but since Ohman is a LOOGY they put Kent in, who is now 0 for 3 with a walk against Ohman.

 

Ohman against Kent is not a good matchup, but Dempster vs Gonzalez is not a good matchup at all.

[sunnydoo]

His OBPA is .304, which unfortunately for your poorly-formulated argument is worse than three members of the Cubs' bullpen (Howry, Guzman, Eyre) and is only .005 worse than everybody's savior, Michael Wuertz.

 

sorry in my anger, i didnt add the BBs in for PAs. You are correct.

 

And i wouldnt advocate any of the pitchers you mentioned coming in serious situations.

 

And Guzmans OBP is much better in relief than as a starter. might want to check that out.

[TruffleShuffle]

BTW, Luis Gonzalez is 10 for 18 career against Dempster with a double, 2 home runs, 3 walks, and 0 K's-a .556/.636/.944 line for his career.

 

Interestingly enough, Gonzalez is 4/6 against Ohman with 2 doubles, a home run, and a walk, but since Ohman is a LOOGY they put Kent in, who is now 0 for 3 with a walk against Ohman.

 

Ohman against Kent is not a good matchup, but Dempster vs Gonzalez is not a good matchup at all.

 

Ah, good point in checking the numbers of LuGo versus Dempster. I guess Lou knew what he was doing after all.

 

 

Still, I object to the number of times that Ohman has been put in to face a decent lefty, while an obvious pinch hit situation is in place. It makes a lot more sense to use him against very good LH batters who won't be pinch hit for, or at the start of an inning when two of the next three batters coming up are lefties.

[TruffleShuffle]

His OBPA is .304, which unfortunately for your poorly-formulated argument is worse than three members of the Cubs' bullpen (Howry, Guzman, Eyre) and is only .005 worse than everybody's savior, Michael Wuertz.

 

sorry in my anger, i didnt add the BBs in for PAs. You are correct.

 

And i wouldnt advocate any of the pitchers you mentioned coming in serious situations.

 

Well isn't Eyre a much bigger problem than Ohman? His OBPA, SLGA and WHIP were significantly worse last year than Ohman, and he's been so bad this year that he can't be used in any situations where the game is even somewhat in doubt. Ohman is effective if used properly; he pitched 65 innings last year and was pretty good - great against LHB and about average against RHB. There's a place in the bullpen for a pitcher like that.

[Soul]

BTW, Luis Gonzalez is 10 for 18 career against Dempster with a double, 2 home runs, 3 walks, and 0 K's-a .556/.636/.944 line for his career.

 

Interestingly enough, Gonzalez is 4/6 against Ohman with 2 doubles, a home run, and a walk, but since Ohman is a LOOGY they put Kent in, who is now 0 for 3 with a walk against Ohman.

 

Ohman against Kent is not a good matchup, but Dempster vs Gonzalez is not a good matchup at all.

 

Ah, good point in checking the numbers of LuGo versus Dempster. I guess Lou knew what he was doing after all.

 

 

Still, I object to the number of times that Ohman has been put in to face a decent lefty, while an obvious pinch hit situation is in place. It makes a lot more sense to use him against very good LH batters who won't be pinch hit for, or at the start of an inning when two of the next three batters coming up are lefties.

 

It doesn't look to me that Lou considers Ohman to be a strict LOOGY.

 

On a positive note, that was a hell of a good pitch to Kent.

[sunnydoo]

It doesn't look to me that Lou considers Ohman to be a strict LOOGY.

 

Loogys do not exist. They are not feasible in the game as Ohman has shown. The opposing manager will simply pinch hit for the batter and let the good times roll. On top of the roster mayhem and the real lack of IP they can do for a team, just not worth the hassle.

 

As for Eyre, he also stinks. Not saying that this is feasible or even the way they should be graded but all of those Pen Vet arms are 4.5+ ERA. All the kids are below 3.2.

 

I am all for DFA'ing Eyre, Booby and Ohman. Call up Rapada, Cherry and Pigs and lets get them started. Cotts can comeback when and if he can show that he can be effective again.

[TruffleShuffle]

As for Eyre, he also stinks. Not saying that this is feasible or even the way they should be graded but all of those Pen Vet arms are 4.5+ ERA. All the kids are below 3.2.

 

ERA is a terrible way to judge relief pitchers, especially with barely more than a quarter of the season through.