Would a Jones for Lieber Deal Make Sense?

[HoopsCubs]

I was thinking about this yesterday when I was reading Cuse's Felix Pie thread. If Pie were to play so well that he could claim the CF job, and Soriano gets moved to RF, would moving Jacque to the Phillies for Lieber make sense for both clubs?

 

I think Gillick might take that deal. He no longer would have 6 starters vying for 5 spots (assuming Eaton is healthy), and it would allow him to trade Rowand to San Diego for Linebrink, as an example. If the rumour mill is half-true, Gillick has been talking about trading Rowand for a reliever if he can trade Lieber for another OF.

 

As for the Cubs and Lieber, they could probably trade him to an AL club for prospects like Toronto or Minnesota, who seem very interested in acquiring a starter. You figure Lieber would be much better than Ramon Ortiz or John Thomson, as examples.

 

You could also argue that Lieber would be insurance if Prior and Miller can't make it back. He would only cost $2M more than Jacque.

 

Just thinking out loud.

 

Hoops

[CubColtPacer]

Assuming for a moment that Jones would need to be traded, I would only do it for Lieber if he was already being shipped off somewhere else. The last thing the Cubs need is another starting pitcher right now-Prior then Miller then Cotts then Guzman for the 5th starter-it's not really great insurance to think about a scenario where they all are ineffective. The talk is already about what to do with Miller if Prior is healthy because there is seemingly no spot in the bullpen-another pitcher would just complicate matters even further.

[BigbadB]

I don't know why a trade like this would take place. The Phillies are having trouble moving Lieber, wouldn't we have the same problem?

 

I'm not sure Jones would be an improvement over the guys the Phillies have slated to play the outfield this year.

 

The Padres would be stupid to trade Linebrink for Rowand. They already have Giles and Cameron in two of the outfield spots, and Jose Cruz Jr. and Termell Sledge are battling or are set to platoon in the left field spot. Sledge has been tearing the cover off the ball in ST.

 

I don't see any reason to rush Pie or to part with Jones so quickly. We have in-house candidates to take a rotation spot if Miller AND Prior aren't ready to step in. Guzman looks to have his filthy stuff back.

 

I'm enjoying the fact we have some outfield depth for a change. Give Pie another half season to prepare for the bigs and see if Jones has improved his trade value at the deadline.

[goonys evil twin]

Assuming for a moment that Jones would need to be traded, I would only do it for Lieber if he was already being shipped off somewhere else. The last thing the Cubs need is another starting pitcher right now-Prior then Miller then Cotts then Guzman for the 5th starter-it's not really great insurance to think about a scenario where they all are ineffective. The talk is already about what to do with Miller if Prior is healthy because there is seemingly no spot in the bullpen-another pitcher would just complicate matters even further.

 

I wouldn't worry about complicating the situation. Personally I think you have to include Marquis into that group and admit you're really looking to fill both the 4th and 5th spots. Marquis is pretty much guaranteed a spot right now, but insurance against another disaster by him could be handy. Lieber could be the most stable pitcher in that group.

 

My biggest concern would be about the offense, however. Jones is hardly irreplacable, but you'd better be really certain that Pie is ready to produce similar numbers as him. And I'm not sure you can be.

 

 

I'd consider such a move under a few conditions:

 

Pie looks great.

Soriano can't handle center.

The back end of the rotation remains in doubt.

 

If Pie doesn't look ready, you can't move Jones. Even if he is ready, there's no reason to as long as Soriano can handle center.

[CubColtPacer]

Assuming for a moment that Jones would need to be traded, I would only do it for Lieber if he was already being shipped off somewhere else. The last thing the Cubs need is another starting pitcher right now-Prior then Miller then Cotts then Guzman for the 5th starter-it's not really great insurance to think about a scenario where they all are ineffective. The talk is already about what to do with Miller if Prior is healthy because there is seemingly no spot in the bullpen-another pitcher would just complicate matters even further.

 

I wouldn't worry about complicating the situation. Personally I think you have to include Marquis into that group and admit you're really looking to fill both the 4th and 5th spots. Marquis is pretty much guaranteed a spot right now, but insurance against another disaster by him could be handy. Lieber could be the most stable pitcher in that group.

 

My biggest concern would be about the offense, however. Jones is hardly irreplacable, but you'd better be really certain that Pie is ready to produce similar numbers as him. And I'm not sure you can be.

 

 

I'd consider such a move under a few conditions:

 

Pie looks great.

Soriano can't handle center.

The back end of the rotation remains in doubt.

 

If Pie doesn't look ready, you can't move Jones. Even if he is ready, there's no reason to as long as Soriano can handle center.

 

You bring in Lieber, and Wuertz is almost guaranteed a spot in Iowa to start the season. If Prior and Miller are both healthy, Wuertz is in Iowa and Miller has to be released or traded somehow. I don't see the upside to justify those potential problems.

You're banking a guy as insurance in case 5 people cannot fill 2 spots (and the Cubs have more people like Sean Marshall who could fill the spot in a pinch if none of those people could do the job at the given time). That doesn't seem particularly helpful to me when the more likely situation is that you've given up a trade asset and had to release or demote equally talented pitchers.

[Rob]

So from what I gather you'd essentially be trading Jones for a necessary piece to move in a trade for an unknown third person?

 

From what I understand though, Victorino is exactly Gillick's kind of ballplayer.

 

We might have better luck getting them to foot a small portion of the bill for Burrell. Then we could keep him or eat some more cash and send him somewhere.

[mg420]

jones is worth more than lieber who is a shadow of his former self. along with cotts, the cubs will have guys like guzman, marshall & mateo in AAA in case of an injury in the rotation. if the cubs do trade jones this year either to give pie a shot in cf or floyd in rf, i see jones going for some good young prospects.

[goonys evil twin]

You bring in Lieber, and Wuertz is almost guaranteed a spot in Iowa to start the season. If Prior and Miller are both healthy, Wuertz is in Iowa and Miller has to be released or traded somehow. I don't see the upside to justify those potential problems.

You're banking a guy as insurance in case 5 people cannot fill 2 spots (and the Cubs have more people like Sean Marshall who could fill the spot in a pinch if none of those people could do the job at the given time). That doesn't seem particularly helpful to me when the more likely situation is that you've given up a trade asset and had to release or demote equally talented pitchers.

 

I don't see how the more likely scenario is that those guys actually do solve the problem. Miller is more or less a lost cause. Releasing him is hardly a problem. I think the upside would be Lieber is a better bet to give you a fair amount of average innings this year than anybody else on that list. And I don't really see Jones as much of a trade asset. He's just another guy.

 

I wouldn't be screaming from the rooftops for such a move, and my caveats remain that I'd only think about it if Pie looks great and Soriano can't handle center.

 

But I'm not about to pretend that there is a great chance that the group of Marquis, Prior, Miller, Guzman and Cotts fill the 4 and 5 spots just fine. At this point, however, the Cubs need to focus more on improving their offense than adding another potential 4/5 starter.

[goonys evil twin]

jones is worth more than lieber who is a shadow of his former self. along with cotts, the cubs will have guys like guzman, marshall & mateo in AAA in case of an injury in the rotation. if the cubs do trade jones this year either to give pie a shot in cf or floyd in rf, i see jones going for some good young prospects.

 

I doubt it. Jones is just as mediocre as Lieber, only he's not a pitcher so he's not going to be valued as much. Nobody is going to be giving up top prospects for Jones.

[CuseCubFan69]

jones is worth more than lieber who is a shadow of his former self. along with cotts, the cubs will have guys like guzman, marshall & mateo in AAA in case of an injury in the rotation. if the cubs do trade jones this year either to give pie a shot in cf or floyd in rf, i see jones going for some good young prospects.

 

I doubt it. Jones is just as mediocre as Lieber, only he's not a pitcher so he's not going to be valued as much. Nobody is going to be giving up top prospects for Jones.

 

I'd like to move Jones and a pitching prospect, if Pie proves he can play, for a SS prospect. I agree with BbB that it's nice to have some depth in the OF but the lack of talent at the SS postion in this organization really bugs me.

[badgercub]

jones is worth more than lieber who is a shadow of his former self. along with cotts, the cubs will have guys like guzman, marshall & mateo in AAA in case of an injury in the rotation. if the cubs do trade jones this year either to give pie a shot in cf or floyd in rf, i see jones going for some good young prospects.

 

I doubt it. Jones is just as mediocre as Lieber, only he's not a pitcher so he's not going to be valued as much. Nobody is going to be giving up top prospects for Jones.

 

Plus Jones' contract is not the most appealing. I still think Hendry overpaid for him and we are likely to see his numbers revert back to career norms unless Lou platoons him in which case we have an expensive platoon player.

[BigbadB]

jones is worth more than lieber who is a shadow of his former self. along with cotts, the cubs will have guys like guzman, marshall & mateo in AAA in case of an injury in the rotation. if the cubs do trade jones this year either to give pie a shot in cf or floyd in rf, i see jones going for some good young prospects.

 

I doubt it. Jones is just as mediocre as Lieber, only he's not a pitcher so he's not going to be valued as much. Nobody is going to be giving up top prospects for Jones.

 

I'd like to move Jones and a pitching prospect, if Pie proves he can play, for a SS prospect. I agree with BbB that it's nice to have some depth in the OF but the lack of talent at the SS postion in this organization really bugs me.

 

I'd like to see the Cubs do that too, but from everything being said in the front office, they like Izturis.

[rawaction]

Jones to me has the potential to have a huge year. If he Lee and Ramirez stay healthy and Barrett and Murton continue to hit like they did after June last year, he is gonna be in a position to have a ton of RBI chances. He showed a career best in power last year, and is only a year removed from walking in 9% of his ABs, which would make him a .350 OBP player if he can hit .280 again. I think in his 2nd year in the NL, with a good hitting coach, that can be accomplished.

 

My worry about Pie is that he will be basically a singles hitter, initially. Kinda like a Juan Pierre who strikes out a ton more. That's a huge loss going from Jones' 30 HRs to Pie not likely to get in double figures and not a guarantee to get on base more.

 

I think the Cubs can/should get a lot more from Jones. I think I'd hold onto him til midseason. There's a solid chance Izturis could be hurt and the Cubs be forced to upgrade at SS. I'd hold onto Jones in the hopes that a guy like Bobby Crosby, Khalil Greene, or Renteria could become available if those teams are out around midseason.

[CubColtPacer]

jones is worth more than lieber who is a shadow of his former self. along with cotts, the cubs will have guys like guzman, marshall & mateo in AAA in case of an injury in the rotation. if the cubs do trade jones this year either to give pie a shot in cf or floyd in rf, i see jones going for some good young prospects.

 

I doubt it. Jones is just as mediocre as Lieber, only he's not a pitcher so he's not going to be valued as much. Nobody is going to be giving up top prospects for Jones.

 

Plus Jones' contract is not the most appealing. I still think Hendry overpaid for him and we are likely to see his numbers revert back to career norms unless Lou platoons him in which case we have an expensive platoon player.

 

If he returns closer to his career norms, his contract will be in line with most right fielders-not to mention that his career norms were largely due to him playing in the Metrodome, where he had much better away than home numbers for most of his career. If he stays at where he was last year or even close to that, his contract will be a bargain.

[CuseCubFan69]

jones is worth more than lieber who is a shadow of his former self. along with cotts, the cubs will have guys like guzman, marshall & mateo in AAA in case of an injury in the rotation. if the cubs do trade jones this year either to give pie a shot in cf or floyd in rf, i see jones going for some good young prospects.

 

I doubt it. Jones is just as mediocre as Lieber, only he's not a pitcher so he's not going to be valued as much. Nobody is going to be giving up top prospects for Jones.

 

I'd like to move Jones and a pitching prospect, if Pie proves he can play, for a SS prospect. I agree with BbB that it's nice to have some depth in the OF but the lack of talent at the SS postion in this organization really bugs me.

 

I'd like to see the Cubs do that too, but from everything being said in the front office, they like Izturis.

 

Yeah I know. Well let's hope that Lou and Perry can turn on a light for Mr. Izturis then and he can improve his hitting approach and numbers.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

While I'd consider this deal, we already have a great deal of depth with our SP.

 

If, by the end of spring:

 

1. Pie looks ready and/or Soriano is having trouble adapting to CF.

 

2. Prior and Miller still don't look ready to contribute.

 

3. Non of our young starters (Guzman, Marshall) appear ready

 

I'd then consider making this move.

 

If either of those do not exist, I think we're better off with Jones in the line-up than Lieber in the rotation.

[Bruno7481]

There is no reason to trade Jones right now, he is pretty much the only LH offensive threat in the lineup. I know some don't buy into that, but you need to have at least some balance in your lineup.

 

Jones did just fine last year. If Matt Murton would put up a .500 SLG with 27 HR people would be wetting themselves.

[goonys evil twin]

jones is worth more than lieber who is a shadow of his former self. along with cotts, the cubs will have guys like guzman, marshall & mateo in AAA in case of an injury in the rotation. if the cubs do trade jones this year either to give pie a shot in cf or floyd in rf, i see jones going for some good young prospects.

 

I doubt it. Jones is just as mediocre as Lieber, only he's not a pitcher so he's not going to be valued as much. Nobody is going to be giving up top prospects for Jones.

 

I'd like to move Jones and a pitching prospect, if Pie proves he can play, for a SS prospect. I agree with BbB that it's nice to have some depth in the OF but the lack of talent at the SS postion in this organization really bugs me.

 

I'd like to see the Cubs do that too, but from everything being said in the front office, they like Izturis.

 

Yeah I know. Well let's hope that Lou and Perry can turn on a light for Mr. Izturis then and he can improve his hitting approach and numbers.

 

Not only do they like Izturis, and have the opportunity to bring him back in 2008 at a price they probably like, but nobody is going to trade away decent SS prospects for Jacque Jones.

 

Rawaction thinks he has a chance to have a huge year, and I would agree only because he's probably begun every year with the chance to have a huge year, given his talent. The problem is his physical talent has never translated into actual huge production, and given his age, probably never will.

[goonys evil twin]

There is no reason to trade Jones right now, he is pretty much the only LH offensive threat in the lineup. I know some don't buy into that, but you need to have at least some balance in your lineup.

 

Jones did just fine last year. If Matt Murton would put up a .500 SLG with 27 HR people would be wetting themselves.

 

The Cubs did just fine against RHP last year. LH threats aren't nearly as necessary as overall threats. The Cubs sucked against LHP last year, due largely to players like Jones who were completely worthless against them.

[CuseCubFan69]

jones is worth more than lieber who is a shadow of his former self. along with cotts, the cubs will have guys like guzman, marshall & mateo in AAA in case of an injury in the rotation. if the cubs do trade jones this year either to give pie a shot in cf or floyd in rf, i see jones going for some good young prospects.

 

I doubt it. Jones is just as mediocre as Lieber, only he's not a pitcher so he's not going to be valued as much. Nobody is going to be giving up top prospects for Jones.

 

I'd like to move Jones and a pitching prospect, if Pie proves he can play, for a SS prospect. I agree with BbB that it's nice to have some depth in the OF but the lack of talent at the SS postion in this organization really bugs me.

 

I'd like to see the Cubs do that too, but from everything being said in the front office, they like Izturis.

 

Yeah I know. Well let's hope that Lou and Perry can turn on a light for Mr. Izturis then and he can improve his hitting approach and numbers.

 

Not only do they like Izturis, and have the opportunity to bring him back in 2008 at a price they probably like, but nobody is going to trade away decent SS prospects for Jacque Jones.

 

Rawaction thinks he has a chance to have a huge year, and I would agree only because he's probably begun every year with the chance to have a huge year, given his talent. The problem is his physical talent has never translated into actual huge production, and given his age, probably never will.

 

I'm suggesting Jones and a pitching prospect. The prospect depending on how good the SS prospect is.

[Bruno7481]

There is no reason to trade Jones right now, he is pretty much the only LH offensive threat in the lineup. I know some don't buy into that, but you need to have at least some balance in your lineup.

 

Jones did just fine last year. If Matt Murton would put up a .500 SLG with 27 HR people would be wetting themselves.

 

The Cubs did just fine against RHP last year. LH threats aren't nearly as necessary as overall threats. The Cubs sucked against LHP last year, due largely to players like Jones who were completely worthless against them.

 

But you do need SOME left-handers in your lineup. I'm not saying it has to be 5RH/4LH, or vice-versa. Late in the game against a closer, who in this division are mostly, if not all RH, it would be nice to have some guys from the left side with a little bit of power.

[goonys evil twin]

There is no reason to trade Jones right now, he is pretty much the only LH offensive threat in the lineup. I know some don't buy into that, but you need to have at least some balance in your lineup.

 

Jones did just fine last year. If Matt Murton would put up a .500 SLG with 27 HR people would be wetting themselves.

 

The Cubs did just fine against RHP last year. LH threats aren't nearly as necessary as overall threats. The Cubs sucked against LHP last year, due largely to players like Jones who were completely worthless against them.

 

But you do need SOME left-handers in your lineup. I'm not saying it has to be 5RH/4LH, or vice-versa. Late in the game against a closer, who in this division are mostly, if not all RH, it would be nice to have some guys from the left side with a little bit of power.

 

Yeah, it would be nice, but not necessary. If you are replacing Jones with Pie, you are keeping the same number of LH bats anyway.

[Bruno7481]

There is no reason to trade Jones right now, he is pretty much the only LH offensive threat in the lineup. I know some don't buy into that, but you need to have at least some balance in your lineup.

 

Jones did just fine last year. If Matt Murton would put up a .500 SLG with 27 HR people would be wetting themselves.

 

The Cubs did just fine against RHP last year. LH threats aren't nearly as necessary as overall threats. The Cubs sucked against LHP last year, due largely to players like Jones who were completely worthless against them.

 

But you do need SOME left-handers in your lineup. I'm not saying it has to be 5RH/4LH, or vice-versa. Late in the game against a closer, who in this division are mostly, if not all RH, it would be nice to have some guys from the left side with a little bit of power.

 

Yeah, it would be nice, but not necessary. If you are replacing Jones with Pie, you are keeping the same number of LH bats anyway.

 

No way Pie puts up the numbers Jones did last year.

 

Jones might even not, but I still think the low-end projection for JJ would outweight the high end of Pie as a rookie.

 

I just don't think its necessary to move him, especially for another guy with a history of arm problems. The Cubs have that market cornered already.

[SAMMYWHO]

Someone help me understand why we can't get into the reliever for Rowand talks. I would be for bringing Lieber back if it meant Rowand too, for a reliever and one of our bulk starters (Miller, Marshall, Mateo)

[goonys evil twin]

Someone help me understand why we can't get into the reliever for Rowand talks. I would be for bringing Lieber back if it meant Rowand too, for a reliever and one of our bulk starters (Miller, Marshall, Mateo)

 

Rowand isn't good. As a platoon with Jones, okay. But he's not good on his own. The Cubs don't need anymore .325 OBP type players.