Ramirez Hustle Complaints Are Starting Already

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I want a very important and slow player with a history of leg injuries to sprint out every ground ball on the microscopic chance he may beat out a throw. When he goes down with the inevitable leg injury and misses 30 games, I'll feel good about it because I give 100% at my job every single second and so should he.

 

You win the thread.

[bc2k]

Paul Sullivan is a hack.

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-070220cubs,1,777390.story

 

Ramirez knows he will be scrutinized from the beginning of spring training after the issue became so prominent last year. Though team sources confirmed that former Cubs manager Dusty Baker and the training staff had told Ramirez to "play smart" on the bases to prevent a recurrence of the leg injuries that sidelined him in 2005, new manager Lou Piniella is unlikely to give him any leeway.

 

"I've been [playing] for eight years, and every year it's the same thing," Ramirez said. "I'm used to that. The bottom line is I'm out there every day, doing my job."

 

Ramirez did his job well from June through September, putting up career highs with 38 home runs and 119 RBIs while hitting .291. He led National League third basemen in fielding percentage and became the sixth Cub in history with more than 35 doubles and homers in the same season.

 

Still, it always seems to come down to the hustle factor.

 

Seriously? This is what people care about?

 

I think it's a relative article because of the managerial change and philosophy differences between those two managers.

[Yeti]

im not even gonna read this thread, i'm sure it is as awsome as the "who hasnt reported to camp yet" thread :x

[Dirt Dog Sparly]

I was privy to a conversation in a AAA clubhouse on this topic. The old vet told a rook that it is ok to run down the line at 3/4 speed on a routine groundball to an infielder if speed wasnt his game. Run through the bag and look like you hated you were thrown out and you wont get booed. Turn off before you get to the bag one time and you will be labeled as a guy who dosent hustle.

 

The conversation is true. If Aram goes down the line at 3/4 speed on the rountine grounders I dont think there will be a legitimate complaint from anyone here.

 

In the end you know who this issue is important to? His teammates. Lets leave it to them. I am getting tired of coming here lately and seeing all the gripey threads.

[OBPMatters]

This team would be so much better with a "hustler" like Eckstein, right Sullivan? :roll:

[KenCub]

It comes down to these people's expectations of ballplayers. They expect them to do everything that they can to win. They know that sometimes they are not going to win regardless because of the quality of other teams, but the most important thing is to do everything that the ballplayers can control to win-if those players aren't doing that, then it is the absolutely most frustrating thing. The underdog mentality that some people have of rooting for the underdog or small guy in all things also feeds into this mentality of no matter your talent level the first thing that you can control is your effort, and so that if the most fundamental thing.

What adds to this is that a lot of the fans bust their butt in the workplace to make a pittance of what professional ballplayers make and have no patience for a player who doesn't give 100% effort to play a game.

 

I'm not making a judgment on Ramirez one way or another here, but am just trying to give some perspective as to the reasons some fans have the viewpoints that they do.

 

And yet a lot of the complainers don't really bust their own butts 100% of the time, but they get all sanctimonious when complaining about ballplayers because it makes themselves feel better.

 

Totally agree. The "I bust my butt in the workplace" defense is a joke. No one is balls to the wall 100% of the time at work. NO ONE. But whenever this sort of topic is brought up, everyone is a dynamo.

 

Just a "devil's advocate" idea here - personally, I'll take Ramirez's offensive production at the cost of an occasional jog down the line - but what percentage of the time does a ballplayer actually "bust his butt"? Basically only when running the bases or when a defensive play involves him. (Add slightly more butt-busting for a first baseman and considerably more for a catcher)

If someone gets offended that a player (in this case Ramirez) can't or won't run hard for the 6 seconds or so it takes to get down the first base line (he IS slow, mind you :D ), is that really so wrong?

Even if you challenge the work ethic of those who challenge Ramirez's, it can be assumed that the average fan busts his butt at his job for at least 6 seconds, 3 or 4 times per workday, can't it?

I don't know if the "bust your butt crew" goes that deeply into the thought process, but that's the only justification I can think of for it, other than simple economic jealousy.

Edited February 22, 2007 by KenCub

[Andy]

This team would be so much better with a "hustler" like Eckstein, right Sullivan? :roll:

Actually, we probably would be a lot better with Eckstein.

 

only because our current SS options suck

[Soul]

This team would be so much better with a "hustler" like Eckstein, right Sullivan? :roll:

Actually, we probably would be a lot better with Eckstein.

 

only because our current SS options suck

 

and our magic pixie dust isn't so good, either

[Guest]

The baseball season is an extremely long season. From the start of camp on the 14th of February to the end of the reg season (not couting the playoffs, cause no team is guarantee, yet) in October, is about 8 months straight of baseball. EIGHT month. 162 games. 1458 innings. And average of about 400 at bats, covering an average about 2 to 2.5 hours per game. Players have to pace themselves over the course of a season, otherwise, said player will be burned out by the All Star break. This is something that Sullivan doesn't take in account. but what else is new. He speaks from the butt, withpout facts, or actually knowing a thing or two.

 

There are FEW players in baseball, plays the game at 100% for 162 games of the yr. Guys like Jeter, Eckstein, Utley,, etc, have all the respect in the world. But just because ARam doesn't hustle on every play like Jeter, doesn't mean ARam isn't trying to win. It's a case of ARam knowing what he can do, and what he can't do physically.

 

So Sullivan can take his uniformed trash article and shove where the good lord split him.

[BigbadB]

This team would be so much better with a "hustler" like Eckstein, right Sullivan? :roll:

Actually, we probably would be a lot better with Eckstein.

 

only because our current SS options suck

 

Yeah, that was a pretty bad example. I'd take Eckstein over Izturis everyday of the week and twice on double header day.

[Guest]

I want a very important and slow player with a history of leg injuries to sprint out every ground ball on the microscopic chance he may beat out a throw. When he goes down with the inevitable leg injury and misses 30 games, I'll feel good about it because I give 100% at my job every single second and so should he.

 

First: You can't tell me you go 100% everyday at your place of business? I'm sure there are days in which you "half arse" just to get through the day.

 

Second: Unlike your job, there is MAJOR money involved here. If ARam is busting his butt down the line, in a meaningless game, would you still feel good---not that it matters, it is ARam who has to look at himself in the mirror---about it? I rather ARam pick and choose when to bust down the line, instead of busting down the line on a simple ground ball, and get hurt.

 

Aram isn't the only player that doesn't play 100% all the time, so either attack every player in baseball for not going "100%" or get off ARam's back.

[Drew Doughty]

I want a very important and slow player with a history of leg injuries to sprint out every ground ball on the microscopic chance he may beat out a throw. When he goes down with the inevitable leg injury and misses 30 games, I'll feel good about it because I give 100% at my job every single second and so should he.

 

First: You can't tell me you go 100% everyday at your place of business? I'm sure there are days in which you "half arse" just to get through the day.

 

Second: Unlike your job, there is MAJOR money involved here. If ARam is busting his butt down the line, in a meaningless game, would you still feel good---not that it matters, it is ARam who has to look at himself in the mirror---about it? I rather ARam pick and choose when to bust down the line, instead of busting down the line on a simple ground ball, and get hurt.

 

Aram isn't the only player that doesn't play 100% all the time, so either attack every player in baseball for not going "100%" or get off ARam's back.

 

Suh-wing and a miss.

[Guest]

I want a very important and slow player with a history of leg injuries to sprint out every ground ball on the microscopic chance he may beat out a throw. When he goes down with the inevitable leg injury and misses 30 games, I'll feel good about it because I give 100% at my job every single second and so should he.

 

First: You can't tell me you go 100% everyday at your place of business? I'm sure there are days in which you "half arse" just to get through the day.

 

Second: Unlike your job, there is MAJOR money involved here. If ARam is busting his butt down the line, in a meaningless game, would you still feel good---not that it matters, it is ARam who has to look at himself in the mirror---about it? I rather ARam pick and choose when to bust down the line, instead of busting down the line on a simple ground ball, and get hurt.

 

 

Aram isn't the only player that doesn't play 100% all the time, so either attack every player in baseball for not going "100%" or get off ARam's back.

 

Suh-wing and a miss.

 

Whatever

[Drew Doughty]

I want a very important and slow player with a history of leg injuries to sprint out every ground ball on the microscopic chance he may beat out a throw. When he goes down with the inevitable leg injury and misses 30 games, I'll feel good about it because I give 100% at my job every single second and so should he.

 

First: You can't tell me you go 100% everyday at your place of business? I'm sure there are days in which you "half arse" just to get through the day.

 

Second: Unlike your job, there is MAJOR money involved here. If ARam is busting his butt down the line, in a meaningless game, would you still feel good---not that it matters, it is ARam who has to look at himself in the mirror---about it? I rather ARam pick and choose when to bust down the line, instead of busting down the line on a simple ground ball, and get hurt.

 

 

Aram isn't the only player that doesn't play 100% all the time, so either attack every player in baseball for not going "100%" or get off ARam's back.

 

Suh-wing and a miss.

 

Whatever

 

He was being sarcastic.

[A New Era]

I want a very important and slow player with a history of leg injuries to sprint out every ground ball on the microscopic chance he may beat out a throw. When he goes down with the inevitable leg injury and misses 30 games, I'll feel good about it because I give 100% at my job every single second and so should he.

 

First: You can't tell me you go 100% everyday at your place of business? I'm sure there are days in which you "half arse" just to get through the day.

 

Second: Unlike your job, there is MAJOR money involved here. If ARam is busting his butt down the line, in a meaningless game, would you still feel good---not that it matters, it is ARam who has to look at himself in the mirror---about it? I rather ARam pick and choose when to bust down the line, instead of busting down the line on a simple ground ball, and get hurt.

 

Aram isn't the only player that doesn't play 100% all the time, so either attack every player in baseball for not going "100%" or get off ARam's back.

 

Just read that over again. Think about it. Maybe emmocions would help. .

 

:roll: I want a very important and slow player with a history of leg injuries to sprint out every ground ball on the microscopic chance he may beat out a throw. :roll: When he goes down with the inevitable leg injury and misses 30 games, I'll feel good about it :roll: because I give 100% at my job every single second and so should he. :roll:

[OBPMatters]

This team would be so much better with a "hustler" like Eckstein, right Sullivan? :roll:

Actually, we probably would be a lot better with Eckstein.

 

only because our current SS options suck

 

Yeah, that was a pretty bad example. I'd take Eckstein over Izturis everyday of the week and twice on double header day.

 

I picked the player synonymous w/hustle, my bad.

[Bull]

There was more than one media take on the subject today. O:)

I'll take the guy's numbers. And no, I don't believe there will be any problems between Ramirez and Lou.

 

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/cubs.asp?id=283367

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Bruce, thanks for being a level-headed voice amidst a media that wants to focus on things that are non-issues.

[Magnetic Curses]

I don't believe in it nearly as much as most people do, but yes, seriously that's what a large, large number of people care about-I've heard many, many fans say that they would rather want a mediocre team that is giving their full effort than a good team that doesn't hustle at times.

 

Those people are liars.

 

Well, I've seen it-people who want to trade players they fully realize are the key to winning for their team, but because of either off-court issues or because of lack of caring on the court they'd rather lose without them than win with them. When it gets to specifics like that, I'm pretty sure they are telling the truth that they would trade those players in a second.

 

if this is true, those people are either liars or losers, complete losers that have lost touch with professional sports.

 

they can go watch college sports and root for their teams to lose. that's pathetic.

Edited February 22, 2007 by Stannis

[Magnetic Curses]

I want a very important and slow player with a history of leg injuries to sprint out every ground ball on the microscopic chance he may beat out a throw. When he goes down with the inevitable leg injury and misses 30 games, I'll feel good about it because I give 100% at my job every single second and so should he.

 

First: You can't tell me you go 100% everyday at your place of business? I'm sure there are days in which you "half arse" just to get through the day.

 

Second: Unlike your job, there is MAJOR money involved here. If ARam is busting his butt down the line, in a meaningless game, would you still feel good---not that it matters, it is ARam who has to look at himself in the mirror---about it? I rather ARam pick and choose when to bust down the line, instead of busting down the line on a simple ground ball, and get hurt.

 

 

Aram isn't the only player that doesn't play 100% all the time, so either attack every player in baseball for not going "100%" or get off ARam's back.

 

Suh-wing and a miss.

 

Whatever

 

i think what is being referred to here is that chocolate milk was being satirical. like when steven colbert talks like bill o'reilly to expose the complete childishness of his views.

[Mark Priors Calves]

as long as he swings the bat as "hard" as he can and hits the ball as "hard" as he can, i couldn't care less how "hard" he runs down the first baseline on a grounder to short.

[Magnetic Curses]

as has been stated, mike murphy was all in a tither today, and all week, about lou stating that he's matured and doesn't throw bases anymore.

 

murphy seems to think that base-throwing is a method of scoring runs. what a dope.

 

this is another odd characteristic that some fans look for in their players and managers, a hot temper. why does a manager need to be a firebrand or yell at players?

 

i'd imagine because many people get yelled at at work and need to see that other, more famous people, are getting it as well. what a joke. those people have serious issues.

[CubColtPacer]

I don't believe in it nearly as much as most people do, but yes, seriously that's what a large, large number of people care about-I've heard many, many fans say that they would rather want a mediocre team that is giving their full effort than a good team that doesn't hustle at times.

 

Those people are liars.

 

Well, I've seen it-people who want to trade players they fully realize are the key to winning for their team, but because of either off-court issues or because of lack of caring on the court they'd rather lose without them than win with them. When it gets to specifics like that, I'm pretty sure they are telling the truth that they would trade those players in a second.

 

if this is true, those people are either liars or losers, complete losers that have lost touch with professional sports.

 

they can go watch college sports and root for their teams to lose. that's pathetic.

 

Well, my guess is that you just called 60% or more of sports fans losers (no, I don't have a study for that like the study I had yesterday that conclusively said that certain productive outs increase run production :D), just because people watch sports with different priorities does not mean they have "lost touch" or that they root for their teams to lose. They are the same type of people who don't want to sign a person like Barry Bonds or T.O. to their team (which polls have shown that a majority of sports fans would not support those players on their team)-they don't just want to win, they want to win "the right way", while most of the people on this board believe that winning itself is "the right way", no matter how you do it. Isn't there room for both philosophies without calling everybody who subscribes to one losers?

[Magnetic Curses]

I don't believe in it nearly as much as most people do, but yes, seriously that's what a large, large number of people care about-I've heard many, many fans say that they would rather want a mediocre team that is giving their full effort than a good team that doesn't hustle at times.

 

Those people are liars.

 

Well, I've seen it-people who want to trade players they fully realize are the key to winning for their team, but because of either off-court issues or because of lack of caring on the court they'd rather lose without them than win with them. When it gets to specifics like that, I'm pretty sure they are telling the truth that they would trade those players in a second.

 

if this is true, those people are either liars or losers, complete losers that have lost touch with professional sports.

 

they can go watch college sports and root for their teams to lose. that's pathetic.

 

Well, my guess is that you just called 60% or more of sports fans losers (no, I don't have a study for that like the study I had yesterday that conclusively said that certain productive outs increase run production :D)

 

that study isn't really what we were talking about. a player trying to hit the ball sharply is probably more likely to make a "productive" out or get a "productive" hit or get a "productive" walk than a player who's not focused on what he does best. that study does not take into account that a player hitting with an even keel can score a run in a multitude of ways, not limited to making a "productive out". but anyway, you can take that over to the other thread if you want, i hadn't read your last post until just now.

 

just because people watch sports with different priorities does not mean they have "lost touch" or that they root for their teams to lose. They are the same type of people who don't want to sign a person like Barry Bonds or T.O. to their team (which polls have shown that a majority of sports fans would not support those players on their team)-they don't just want to win, they want to win "the right way", while most of the people on this board believe that winning itself is "the right way", no matter how you do it. Isn't there room for both philosophies without calling everybody who subscribes to one losers?

 

people who root for their teams to lose because they aren't winning the "right way" are losers, and i'm not afraid to say that here. i don't think there are many people who want to see their favorite team lose because they dislike the personnel.

 

it's stupid. i'd root for the bears if TO played for them. but if they started to lose when the team lost focus because of him, i'd be one of the first railing for his release.

 

teams that generally have to rely on blood-and-guts and all that whatever-it-is usually are losers themselves, but they can still feel like winners when they get the good sportsmanship award, if they gave one, which they don't.

[Chocolate Milk]

I thought I laid it on pretty thick.