Ramirez Hustle Complaints Are Starting Already

[USSoccer]

Paul Sullivan is a hack.

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-070220cubs,1,777390.story

 

Ramirez knows he will be scrutinized from the beginning of spring training after the issue became so prominent last year. Though team sources confirmed that former Cubs manager Dusty Baker and the training staff had told Ramirez to "play smart" on the bases to prevent a recurrence of the leg injuries that sidelined him in 2005, new manager Lou Piniella is unlikely to give him any leeway.

 

"I've been [playing] for eight years, and every year it's the same thing," Ramirez said. "I'm used to that. The bottom line is I'm out there every day, doing my job."

 

Ramirez did his job well from June through September, putting up career highs with 38 home runs and 119 RBIs while hitting .291. He led National League third basemen in fielding percentage and became the sixth Cub in history with more than 35 doubles and homers in the same season.

 

Still, it always seems to come down to the hustle factor.

 

Seriously? This is what people care about?

[CubColtPacer]

Paul Sullivan is a hack.

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-070220cubs,1,777390.story

 

Ramirez knows he will be scrutinized from the beginning of spring training after the issue became so prominent last year. Though team sources confirmed that former Cubs manager Dusty Baker and the training staff had told Ramirez to "play smart" on the bases to prevent a recurrence of the leg injuries that sidelined him in 2005, new manager Lou Piniella is unlikely to give him any leeway.

 

"I've been [playing] for eight years, and every year it's the same thing," Ramirez said. "I'm used to that. The bottom line is I'm out there every day, doing my job."

 

Ramirez did his job well from June through September, putting up career highs with 38 home runs and 119 RBIs while hitting .291. He led National League third basemen in fielding percentage and became the sixth Cub in history with more than 35 doubles and homers in the same season.

 

Still, it always seems to come down to the hustle factor.

 

Seriously? This is what people care about?

 

I don't believe in it nearly as much as most people do, but yes, seriously that's what a large, large number of people care about-I've heard many, many fans say that they would rather want a mediocre team that is giving their full effort than a good team that doesn't hustle at times.

[Banedon]

Mike Murphy was on this a little from what I heard on my lunch...he said Ramirez says he's not lazy, he's slow...but then all the reports are that Dusty and the medical staff told him to take it easy. He was pointing out that these were somehow contradictions. All the while I'm saying to myself...who freaking cares?

[goonys evil twin]

I don't believe in it nearly as much as most people do, but yes, seriously that's what a large, large number of people care about-I've heard many, many fans say that they would rather want a mediocre team that is giving their full effort than a good team that doesn't hustle at times.

 

Those people are liars.

[USSoccer]

Paul Sullivan is a hack.

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-070220cubs,1,777390.story

 

Ramirez knows he will be scrutinized from the beginning of spring training after the issue became so prominent last year. Though team sources confirmed that former Cubs manager Dusty Baker and the training staff had told Ramirez to "play smart" on the bases to prevent a recurrence of the leg injuries that sidelined him in 2005, new manager Lou Piniella is unlikely to give him any leeway.

 

"I've been [playing] for eight years, and every year it's the same thing," Ramirez said. "I'm used to that. The bottom line is I'm out there every day, doing my job."

 

Ramirez did his job well from June through September, putting up career highs with 38 home runs and 119 RBIs while hitting .291. He led National League third basemen in fielding percentage and became the sixth Cub in history with more than 35 doubles and homers in the same season.

 

Still, it always seems to come down to the hustle factor.

 

Seriously? This is what people care about?

 

I don't believe in it nearly as much as most people do, but yes, seriously that's what a large, large number of people care about-I've heard many, many fans say that they would rather want a mediocre team that is giving their full effort than a good team that doesn't hustle at times.

 

Then those are some stupid, stupid fans with their priorities out of whack. This isn't little league, or AYSO soccer, where everyone just gets credit for trying hard.

 

Winning is the only mandate. If ARam hits 40 HR's and 120RBI's I don't care if he crawls down the 1st base line on a groundout.

[Danny82]

Paul Sullivan is a hack.

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-070220cubs,1,777390.story

 

Ramirez knows he will be scrutinized from the beginning of spring training after the issue became so prominent last year. Though team sources confirmed that former Cubs manager Dusty Baker and the training staff had told Ramirez to "play smart" on the bases to prevent a recurrence of the leg injuries that sidelined him in 2005, new manager Lou Piniella is unlikely to give him any leeway.

 

"I've been [playing] for eight years, and every year it's the same thing," Ramirez said. "I'm used to that. The bottom line is I'm out there every day, doing my job."

 

Ramirez did his job well from June through September, putting up career highs with 38 home runs and 119 RBIs while hitting .291. He led National League third basemen in fielding percentage and became the sixth Cub in history with more than 35 doubles and homers in the same season.

 

Still, it always seems to come down to the hustle factor.

 

Seriously? This is what people care about?

Why do you take such personal offense to this topic?

[USSoccer]

Mike Murphy was on this a little from what I heard on my lunch...he said Ramirez says he's not lazy, he's slow...but then all the reports are that Dusty and the medical staff told him to take it easy. He was pointing out that these were somehow contradictions. All the while I'm saying to myself...who freaking cares?

 

Don't get me started on Mike Murphy. If he doesn't have the critical thinking skills to read a newspaper article, he shouldn't be on the radio adding to the media's white noise.

[CubColtPacer]

Paul Sullivan is a hack.

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-070220cubs,1,777390.story

 

Ramirez knows he will be scrutinized from the beginning of spring training after the issue became so prominent last year. Though team sources confirmed that former Cubs manager Dusty Baker and the training staff had told Ramirez to "play smart" on the bases to prevent a recurrence of the leg injuries that sidelined him in 2005, new manager Lou Piniella is unlikely to give him any leeway.

 

"I've been [playing] for eight years, and every year it's the same thing," Ramirez said. "I'm used to that. The bottom line is I'm out there every day, doing my job."

 

Ramirez did his job well from June through September, putting up career highs with 38 home runs and 119 RBIs while hitting .291. He led National League third basemen in fielding percentage and became the sixth Cub in history with more than 35 doubles and homers in the same season.

 

Still, it always seems to come down to the hustle factor.

 

Seriously? This is what people care about?

 

I don't believe in it nearly as much as most people do, but yes, seriously that's what a large, large number of people care about-I've heard many, many fans say that they would rather want a mediocre team that is giving their full effort than a good team that doesn't hustle at times.

 

Then those are some stupid, stupid fans with their priorities out of whack. This isn't little league, or AYSO soccer, where everyone just gets credit for trying hard.

 

Winning is the only mandate. If ARam hits 40 HR's and 120RBI's I don't care if he crawls down the 1st base line on a groundout.

 

So if we took a poll, and found that your line of thinking was in the minority, then the majority could call you stupid with silly priorities? Everybody has their own reasons for becoming a fan-wanting people to give it their all in sports is like character issues for politicians. It may not affect the job they do (if it be politics or sports) but people want to be proud to say that I am a fan of this and these people represent me, and giving full effort in sports is a key part of that. Some people watch sports for the journey, and others watch it for the destination-I don't see how some people can tell other people why they should watch something, or what they can value as a fan.

 

At the same time, I think the Ramirez hustle issues are overblown-there are many people in the majors who have worse issues than he does, and his occasional lack of hustle then is not a big deal to me.

[USSoccer]

Paul Sullivan is a hack.

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-070220cubs,1,777390.story

 

Ramirez knows he will be scrutinized from the beginning of spring training after the issue became so prominent last year. Though team sources confirmed that former Cubs manager Dusty Baker and the training staff had told Ramirez to "play smart" on the bases to prevent a recurrence of the leg injuries that sidelined him in 2005, new manager Lou Piniella is unlikely to give him any leeway.

 

"I've been [playing] for eight years, and every year it's the same thing," Ramirez said. "I'm used to that. The bottom line is I'm out there every day, doing my job."

 

Ramirez did his job well from June through September, putting up career highs with 38 home runs and 119 RBIs while hitting .291. He led National League third basemen in fielding percentage and became the sixth Cub in history with more than 35 doubles and homers in the same season.

 

Still, it always seems to come down to the hustle factor.

 

Seriously? This is what people care about?

Why do you take such personal offense to this topic?

 

Because it's a stupid strawman that takes attention away from the real problems this organization has.

 

ARam jogging out a grounder to SS isn't why they lose games. If the media focused on that instead of nonsense like this, maybe there's be an impetus for change.

[CubColtPacer]

I don't believe in it nearly as much as most people do, but yes, seriously that's what a large, large number of people care about-I've heard many, many fans say that they would rather want a mediocre team that is giving their full effort than a good team that doesn't hustle at times.

 

Those people are liars.

 

Well, I've seen it-people who want to trade players they fully realize are the key to winning for their team, but because of either off-court issues or because of lack of caring on the court they'd rather lose without them than win with them. When it gets to specifics like that, I'm pretty sure they are telling the truth that they would trade those players in a second.

[USSoccer]

 

So if we took a poll, and found that your line of thinking was in the minority, then the majority could call you stupid with silly priorities? Everybody has their own reasons for becoming a fan-wanting people to give it their all in sports is like character issues for politicians. It may not affect the job they do (if it be politics or sports) but people want to be proud to say that I am a fan of this and these people represent me, and giving full effort in sports is a key part of that. Some people watch sports for the journey, and others watch it for the destination-I don't see how some people can tell other people why they should watch something, or what they can value as a fan.

 

At the same time, I think the Ramirez hustle issues are overblown-there are many people in the majors who have worse issues than he does, and his occasional lack of hustle then is not a big deal to me.

 

I'm sure I have opinions that are stupid. People would be right to call me out on them. That said, I can defend most of my opinions. I don't get people that care more about effort than winning when it comes to a sporting event. I don't see a valid defense for that line of thinking; that there's somehow honor in being bad if you tried really hard.

[CuseCubFan69]

 

So if we took a poll, and found that your line of thinking was in the minority, then the majority could call you stupid with silly priorities? Everybody has their own reasons for becoming a fan-wanting people to give it their all in sports is like character issues for politicians. It may not affect the job they do (if it be politics or sports) but people want to be proud to say that I am a fan of this and these people represent me, and giving full effort in sports is a key part of that. Some people watch sports for the journey, and others watch it for the destination-I don't see how some people can tell other people why they should watch something, or what they can value as a fan.

 

At the same time, I think the Ramirez hustle issues are overblown-there are many people in the majors who have worse issues than he does, and his occasional lack of hustle then is not a big deal to me.

 

I'm sure I have opinions that are stupid. People would be right to call me out on them. That said, I can defend most of my opinions. I don't get people that care more about effort than winning when it comes to a sporting event. I don't see a valid defense for that line of thinking; that there's somehow honor in being bad if you tried really hard.

 

IMO they are thinking that effort goes with winning and not inspite of.

[C.C.]

Paul Sullivan is a hack.

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-070220cubs,1,777390.story

 

Ramirez knows he will be scrutinized from the beginning of spring training after the issue became so prominent last year. Though team sources confirmed that former Cubs manager Dusty Baker and the training staff had told Ramirez to "play smart" on the bases to prevent a recurrence of the leg injuries that sidelined him in 2005, new manager Lou Piniella is unlikely to give him any leeway.

 

"I've been [playing] for eight years, and every year it's the same thing," Ramirez said. "I'm used to that. The bottom line is I'm out there every day, doing my job."

 

Ramirez did his job well from June through September, putting up career highs with 38 home runs and 119 RBIs while hitting .291. He led National League third basemen in fielding percentage and became the sixth Cub in history with more than 35 doubles and homers in the same season.

 

Still, it always seems to come down to the hustle factor.

 

Seriously? This is what people care about?

 

Why even bring this up. I think just about everyone that post here knows the importance of Ram. Good or bad, he's going to have this label through-out his career as a Cub. No reason to beat a dead horse.

[Bruce Miles]

There was more than one media take on the subject today. O:)

I'll take the guy's numbers. And no, I don't believe there will be any problems between Ramirez and Lou.

[CubinNY]

This is a Paul Sullivan issue. He's the only one who cares. And he keeps it going becuase he is a small, small human being who lives under a bridge on State Street during the off-season.

[CubColtPacer]

 

So if we took a poll, and found that your line of thinking was in the minority, then the majority could call you stupid with silly priorities? Everybody has their own reasons for becoming a fan-wanting people to give it their all in sports is like character issues for politicians. It may not affect the job they do (if it be politics or sports) but people want to be proud to say that I am a fan of this and these people represent me, and giving full effort in sports is a key part of that. Some people watch sports for the journey, and others watch it for the destination-I don't see how some people can tell other people why they should watch something, or what they can value as a fan.

 

At the same time, I think the Ramirez hustle issues are overblown-there are many people in the majors who have worse issues than he does, and his occasional lack of hustle then is not a big deal to me.

 

I'm sure I have opinions that are stupid. People would be right to call me out on them. That said, I can defend most of my opinions. I don't get people that care more about effort than winning when it comes to a sporting event. I don't see a valid defense for that line of thinking; that there's somehow honor in being bad if you tried really hard.

 

IMO they are thinking that effort goes with winning and not inspite of.

 

That is certainly part of it-many people hate when they see a team not playing to their potential, and a lack of hustle as a reason for that is the worst way that a team could not live up to their potential (now, there are reasons why the Ramirez case in particular does not live up to that, but I'll disregard that for the larger issue of hustling right now). Let me give another analogy to help you understand how these people think: would you be more proud of a kid who got B's but you know could of gotten A-'s if they had done all they could, or a kid who struggled all the way through the semester to earn their C? Many people would choose the latter, and they apply that same principle to sports.

 

It comes down to these people's expectations of ballplayers. They expect them to do everything that they can to win. They know that sometimes they are not going to win regardless because of the quality of other teams, but the most important thing is to do everything that the ballplayers can control to win-if those players aren't doing that, then it is the absolutely most frustrating thing. The underdog mentality that some people have of rooting for the underdog or small guy in all things also feeds into this mentality of no matter your talent level the first thing that you can control is your effort, and so that if the most fundamental thing.

[CubColtPacer]

Again-just because I'm on the side of hustling for the larger issue, that does not mean that I was against signing Ramirez. I think the Ramirez hustle issues are overblown, and I am thrilled that he is on this team, because the Cubs desperately need his production.

[goonys evil twin]

would you be more proud of a kid who got B's but you know could of gotten A-'s if they had done all they could, or a kid who struggled all the way through the semester to earn their C? Many people would choose the latter, and they apply that same principle to sports.

 

If people are too immature or naive to know the difference between professional athletes and school kids they've got bigger problems.

 

Another problem is the mistaken belief that baseball is best played in a balls to the wall fashion.

[abuck1220]

Paul Sullivan is a hack.

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-070220cubs,1,777390.story

 

Ramirez knows he will be scrutinized from the beginning of spring training after the issue became so prominent last year. Though team sources confirmed that former Cubs manager Dusty Baker and the training staff had told Ramirez to "play smart" on the bases to prevent a recurrence of the leg injuries that sidelined him in 2005, new manager Lou Piniella is unlikely to give him any leeway.

 

"I've been [playing] for eight years, and every year it's the same thing," Ramirez said. "I'm used to that. The bottom line is I'm out there every day, doing my job."

 

Ramirez did his job well from June through September, putting up career highs with 38 home runs and 119 RBIs while hitting .291. He led National League third basemen in fielding percentage and became the sixth Cub in history with more than 35 doubles and homers in the same season.

 

Still, it always seems to come down to the hustle factor.

 

Seriously? This is what people care about?

Why do you take such personal offense to this topic?

 

who's taking personal offense to anything?

[Danny82]

It comes down to these people's expectations of ballplayers. They expect them to do everything that they can to win. They know that sometimes they are not going to win regardless because of the quality of other teams, but the most important thing is to do everything that the ballplayers can control to win-if those players aren't doing that, then it is the absolutely most frustrating thing. The underdog mentality that some people have of rooting for the underdog or small guy in all things also feeds into this mentality of no matter your talent level the first thing that you can control is your effort, and so that if the most fundamental thing.

What adds to this is that a lot of the fans bust their butt in the workplace to make a pittance of what professional ballplayers make and have no patience for a player who doesn't give 100% effort to play a game.

 

I'm not making a judgment on Ramirez one way or another here, but am just trying to give some perspective as to the reasons some fans have the viewpoints that they do.

[goonys evil twin]

It comes down to these people's expectations of ballplayers. They expect them to do everything that they can to win. They know that sometimes they are not going to win regardless because of the quality of other teams, but the most important thing is to do everything that the ballplayers can control to win-if those players aren't doing that, then it is the absolutely most frustrating thing. The underdog mentality that some people have of rooting for the underdog or small guy in all things also feeds into this mentality of no matter your talent level the first thing that you can control is your effort, and so that if the most fundamental thing.

What adds to this is that a lot of the fans bust their butt in the workplace to make a pittance of what professional ballplayers make and have no patience for a player who doesn't give 100% effort to play a game.

 

I'm not making a judgment on Ramirez one way or another here, but am just trying to give some perspective as to the reasons some fans have the viewpoints that they do.

 

And yet a lot of the complainers don't really bust their own butts 100% of the time, but they get all sanctimonious when complaining about ballplayers because it makes themselves feel better.

[Danny82]

would you be more proud of a kid who got B's but you know could of gotten A-'s if they had done all they could, or a kid who struggled all the way through the semester to earn their C? Many people would choose the latter, and they apply that same principle to sports.

 

If people are too immature or naive to know the difference between professional athletes and school kids they've got bigger problems.

How is the principle of the matter that different? Apparently I am too immature to see the marked difference.

 

Surely you can see the forest over the trees of his example.

Edited February 21, 2007 by Danny82

[Derwood]

this is another example of lazy sports journalism. sullivan knows that people are for some reason keyed into the "gritty/hardnosed/eckstein-esque players play the game the right way" BS that he can just sleepwalk his way through an article that criticizes someone who doesn't fit into that model.

 

BTW, if we use the student analogy in sports, I would far rather have a player who has the potential to hit .330/50/130 just hit .310/40/115 than the player who tries as hard as he can and hits .270/8/40

[Danny82]

It comes down to these people's expectations of ballplayers. They expect them to do everything that they can to win. They know that sometimes they are not going to win regardless because of the quality of other teams, but the most important thing is to do everything that the ballplayers can control to win-if those players aren't doing that, then it is the absolutely most frustrating thing. The underdog mentality that some people have of rooting for the underdog or small guy in all things also feeds into this mentality of no matter your talent level the first thing that you can control is your effort, and so that if the most fundamental thing.

What adds to this is that a lot of the fans bust their butt in the workplace to make a pittance of what professional ballplayers make and have no patience for a player who doesn't give 100% effort to play a game.

 

I'm not making a judgment on Ramirez one way or another here, but am just trying to give some perspective as to the reasons some fans have the viewpoints that they do.

 

And yet a lot of the complainers don't really bust their own butts 100% of the time, but they get all sanctimonious when complaining about ballplayers because it makes themselves feel better.

What is your point? I was merely giving an example of why some fans might feel that way. How does your post change what I said?

[abuck1220]

would you be more proud of a kid who got B's but you know could of gotten A-'s if they had done all they could, or a kid who struggled all the way through the semester to earn their C? Many people would choose the latter, and they apply that same principle to sports.

 

If people are too immature or naive to know the difference between professional athletes and school kids they've got bigger problems.

How is the principle of the matter that different? Apparently I am too immature to see the marked difference.

 

apparently.