Cubs and Big Z Avoid Arbitration, Agree to 1/$12.4 M

[A New Era]

Look, aside dumb overpaid mediocre players. There is ONE thing that defines our struggles the last few years. RELYING ON WOOD AND PRIOR. Just think about it. JH really hasn't put together a BAD team at all. IF Wood and Prior were who they could have been. This would have been a VERY good team for the last 4 years. But they've been riddled with injuries. It was CONTINUING to rely on wood and prior that was his downfall.

 

2006: 29th in OBP, 28th in Runs

2005: 20th in OBP, 20th in Runs

2004: 22nd in OBP, 16th in Runs

2003: 24th in OBP, 20th in Runs

 

Something tells me pitching (namely relying on Wood and Prior) hasn't been the only major problem this team has had over the past four years.

 

Agreed. Relying on Prior and Wood was a big problem but it surely wasn't the only problem the team had the past couple years. You don't finish with the worst record in the NL because you rely on two pitchers and they get hurt.

 

That's right, because if they didn't get hurt, you wouldn't finish anywhere near the bottom.

[goonys evil twin]

Look, aside dumb overpaid mediocre players. There is ONE thing that defines our struggles the last few years. RELYING ON WOOD AND PRIOR. Just think about it. JH really hasn't put together a BAD team at all. IF Wood and Prior were who they could have been. This would have been a VERY good team for the last 4 years. But they've been riddled with injuries. It was CONTINUING to rely on wood and prior that was his downfall.

 

2006: 29th in OBP, 28th in Runs

2005: 20th in OBP, 20th in Runs

2004: 22nd in OBP, 16th in Runs

2003: 24th in OBP, 20th in Runs

 

Something tells me pitching (namely relying on Wood and Prior) hasn't been the only major problem this team has had over the past four years.

 

I think it's much more objective to present your rankings for just the NL. Of course the AL teams are going to dominate the upper half of those rankings with the inclusion of the DH.

 

I'm not saying that the Cubs will have a great ranking in the NL per se, but you are making things look worse than they actually were relative to a similar peer group.

 

Not really. The Cubs were 14th, 14th, 16th and 16th in walks taken the past 4 years in the NL. 13th, 11th, 11th, 16th in OBP, and 9th, 7th, 9th, and 16th in Runs scored. The team's biggest weakness under Hendry has been the walk, both taken and given up. They've been at or near the bottom throughout his tenure, and that one simple stat has greatly affected the bigger ones, like Runs scored, and given up. They have been a below average scoring team under Hendry, and last year were the worst. It's not just Prior and Wood.

[goonys evil twin]

2 years. My main arguement is hendry DID build a good team. It's just the relying on Wood and Prior in 2005, and 2006 that makes it look like he built such a bad team. When he built a very good team that could have been one of the best, but went down as 2 of the most promising picthing prospects failed to deliver. .

 

Your argument is wrong. 2003 and 2004 were okay teams, but they won only 88 and 89 games, well off the pace of the best in baseball, because they relied so heavily on pitching and had such lackluster offenses. As the offenses got worse and worse, the losses mounted.

[Danny82]

My only point is that a comparison of only NL teams is much more relevant.

[Outshined_One]

My only point is that a comparison of only NL teams is much more relevant.

 

Not really. The Cubs were 14th, 14th, 16th and 16th in walks taken the past 4 years in the NL. 13th, 11th, 11th, 16th in OBP, and 9th, 7th, 9th, and 16th in Runs scored.

[Mephistopheles]

2 years. My main arguement is hendry DID build a good team. It's just the relying on Wood and Prior in 2005, and 2006 that makes it look like he built such a bad team. When he built a very good team that could have been one of the best, but went down as 2 of the most promising picthing prospects failed to deliver. .

 

Your argument is wrong. 2003 and 2004 were okay teams, but they won only 88 and 89 games, well off the pace of the best in baseball, because they relied so heavily on pitching and had such lackluster offenses. As the offenses got worse and worse, the losses mounted.

04 was a 100 win team if Wood and Prior were healthy.

[Danny82]

My only point is that a comparison of only NL teams is much more relevant.

 

Not really. The Cubs were 14th, 14th, 16th and 16th in walks taken the past 4 years in the NL. 13th, 11th, 11th, 16th in OBP, and 9th, 7th, 9th, and 16th in Runs scored.

 

???

 

Yes, that is what I am talking about. Those numbers are much more telling. There is less "interference", so to speak.

[USSoccer]

My only point is that a comparison of only NL teams is much more relevant.

 

Not really. The Cubs were 14th, 14th, 16th and 16th in walks taken the past 4 years in the NL. 13th, 11th, 11th, 16th in OBP, and 9th, 7th, 9th, and 16th in Runs scored.

 

???

 

Yes, that is what I am talking about. Those numbers are much more telling. There is less "interference", so to speak.

 

And yet they are still terrible rankings, no matter how you break it up.

[goonys evil twin]

My only point is that a comparison of only NL teams is much more relevant.

 

Not really. The Cubs were 14th, 14th, 16th and 16th in walks taken the past 4 years in the NL. 13th, 11th, 11th, 16th in OBP, and 9th, 7th, 9th, and 16th in Runs scored.

 

???

 

Yes, that is what I am talking about. Those numbers are much more telling. There is less "interference", so to speak.

 

Well, they are slightly different, but tell the same story. Mediocrity, punctuated with downright disgrace.

 

FYI, while the comps with AL teams would generally make things look worse, it works 2 ways.

 

Ranking 20th and 20th in MLB in 2005 for OBP and R, compares with ranking 11th and 9th in just the NL. In 2004 they look slightly better by going with just NL numbers, but in 2006, they actually benefit from including all MLB numbers. So the point stands, no, you aren't really making things look worse than they are by including all MLB. It's pretty much the same story.

Edited February 20, 2007 by goony's evil twin

[Danny82]

That, I am not denying.

[Mizzou]

Nice job by Hendry. This wasn't even close to meeting in the middle. Hendry almost got Zambrano's agents to settle for what the Cubs were offering in aribtration.

 

Either way, I'm glad that he's signed. Now let's hope that an extension is announced in the near future.

[David]

While the Prior and Wood injury problems have been huge, I think the biggest reason this team went to crap were the changes made after 2004. Keep in mind that the 2004 Cubs were well on their way to one of their best seasons in decades when the great collapse started at Shea, that despite getting only decent production (at best) out of the Prior/Wood combo that year.

 

Hendry didn't adequately replace Sosa and Alou. Then Nomar got hurt at the start of 05 and our offense was really in the hole. Then he tried to go small ball and get guys that can catch, and we were treated to the suckitude of Juan Pierre. These moves had just as much, if not more, to do with the Cubs sucking from 2005-present as the Prior and Wood situations.

[indifferent]

I don't really question Hendry's ability to get who he wants. I just question his wants.

 

He's done alright with landing A-Ram and D-Lee for a pile of junk. Sure, he's had his share of bad moves as well, but he has secured four players who are likely all-stars this year (D-Lee, A-Ram, Soriano and Barrett.

 

He gets way too much credit for Aramis and Lee. Both were salary dumps. Luckily, Hendry had the necessary parts and budget to fit both guys in. No one wanted Derrek Lee the year before Hendry traded for him. Baltimore was the most interested, but Florida wouldn't pick up part of the salary, and a deal never happened. Aramis was about to get expensive for Pittsburgh, and they were dumping anyone making any decent money that year.

 

These were not big coos on Hendry's part. I'm happy the Cubs were the team that landed these two players, and I'm even more thrilled that it cost very little in talent to get them, but those guys would have been traded to someone regardless.

 

I don't know about too much credit. You still have to be the team at the right place at the right time who gets the salary dumpee. I count Larry Walker as one of the feathers in Jocketty's cap during his tenure with the Cards and he's didn't approach the Lee and Aram coup (due to his age and injuries).

[Chris]

Not sure if this has been posted. From the Cubs:

 

MESA, Ariz. – The Chicago Cubs today announced that the club and right-handed pitcher Carlos Zambrano agreed to a one-year deal for the 2007 season, thus avoiding arbitration.

 

Zambrano, 25, owns a 64-42 career record with a 3.29 ERA (357 ER/977.0 IP) in 167 games (146 starts). He has 865 strikeouts in 977.0 innings of work and has limited hitters to a .224 batting average, including a .217 mark against right-handed hitters.

 

Over the last two seasons, Zambrano's 412 strikeouts rank second among NL hurlers (Jake Peavy, 431) while his .210 batting average against ranks third (Roger Clemens, .205 and Pedro Martinez, .210).

 

Zambrano, who was signed by the Cubs as a non-drafted free agent July 12, 1997, was the ace of the Cubs staff in 2006 and set a career high with 210 strikeouts. His 33 starts and 16 victories tied career marks. He was named to the National League All-Star Team for the second time in his career (also 2004), but did not pitch in the contest.

 

He set another career high last season with a nine-game winning streak from June 5-July 30, becoming just the third Cubs pitcher to win at least eight straight decisions since the start of the 1985 season (also Greg Maddux in 1988 and Jaime Navarro in 1996).

[Jon]

I'm glad they didn't go to arbitration, but this last-minute deal doesn't necessary mean the two sides will have a better working relationship regarding an extension compared to where they would be if they went to arbitration.

[CubColtPacer]

I don't really question Hendry's ability to get who he wants. I just question his wants.

 

He's done alright with landing A-Ram and D-Lee for a pile of junk. Sure, he's had his share of bad moves as well, but he has secured four players who are likely all-stars this year (D-Lee, A-Ram, Soriano and Barrett.

 

He gets way too much credit for Aramis and Lee. Both were salary dumps. Luckily, Hendry had the necessary parts and budget to fit both guys in. No one wanted Derrek Lee the year before Hendry traded for him. Baltimore was the most interested, but Florida wouldn't pick up part of the salary, and a deal never happened. Aramis was about to get expensive for Pittsburgh, and they were dumping anyone making any decent money that year.

 

These were not big coos on Hendry's part. I'm happy the Cubs were the team that landed these two players, and I'm even more thrilled that it cost very little in talent to get them, but those guys would have been traded to someone regardless.

 

I don't know about too much credit. You still have to be the team at the right place at the right time who gets the salary dumpee. I count Larry Walker as one of the feathers in Jocketty's cap during his tenure with the Cards and he's didn't approach the Lee and Aram coup (due to his age and injuries).

 

One thing that has to be remembered also is that the Cubs had another option for both 3B and 1B. They weren't supposed to trade for Ramirez in 2003, but rather Mike Lowell-Hendry picked the right one. Also, Hendry still had to pick Lee over Choi, even if Lee was a salary dump. So both of them were salary dumps, but they were both highly questioned at the time, and there were a considerable amount of people who thought they should have went with the other two instead. So I have to give Henry credit for them-he only took advantage of the opportunities when they were in his lap, but he took advantages of the right ones at the time, and bypassed the wrong ones.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

I'm glad they didn't go to arbitration, but this last-minute deal doesn't necessary mean the two sides will have a better working relationship regarding an extension compared to where they would be if they went to arbitration.

 

Eh, I think it'll get done at the end of spring just like Kerry and Derrek's deals.

[brinoch]

I'm glad they didn't go to arbitration, but this last-minute deal doesn't necessary mean the two sides will have a better working relationship regarding an extension compared to where they would be if they went to arbitration.

 

If you have a record of making deals and coming to agreement, it's much easier to find common ground and make a deal.

[Coach C]

Not bad. Maybe perhaps while that one year will give The Jimster some more time to work with Zambrano's agent on how much Zambrano should get paid.

[nilodnayr]

I really think you aren't understanding the full term of a commodity. A commodity is easily replaceable, a Ferrari is not.

 

From MerriamWebster

 

Main Entry: com·mod·i·ty

Pronunciation: k&-'mä-d&-tE

Function: noun

Inflected Form(s): plural -ties

1 : an economic good: as a : a product of agriculture or mining b : an article of commerce especially when delivered for shipment c : a mass-produced unspecialized product

2 a : something useful or valued <

3 obsolete : QUANTITY, LOT

4 : a good or service whose wide availability typically leads to smaller profit margins and diminishes the importance of factors (as brand name) other than price

5 : one that is subject to ready exchange or exploitation within a market

 

I am using definition 5.

 

I would use 1c, I think that is the more generally accepted definition as opposed to "Film Quarterly".

[Jon]

I'm glad they didn't go to arbitration, but this last-minute deal doesn't necessary mean the two sides will have a better working relationship regarding an extension compared to where they would be if they went to arbitration.

 

If you have a record of making deals and coming to agreement, it's much easier to find common ground and make a deal.

In theory if you split the gap, but that's not really what happened here.

 

It'll get done, in my opinion, but I don't really think this is the big step towards that.

[SouthSideRyan]

This is totally my own braindead speculation, but this along with all the talk in ST about Z's extension is making me think he has no intentions of leaving, and the Cubs are going to wind up with a very team-friendly deal because of it.

[b_wiggy_66]

This is totally my own braindead speculation, but this along with all the talk in ST about Z's extension is making me think he has no intentions of leaving, and the Cubs are going to wind up with a very team-friendly deal because of it.

 

Let's hope so

[soccer10k]

Look, aside dumb overpaid mediocre players. There is ONE thing that defines our struggles the last few years. RELYING ON WOOD AND PRIOR. Just think about it. JH really hasn't put together a BAD team at all. IF Wood and Prior were who they could have been. This would have been a VERY good team for the last 4 years. But they've been riddled with injuries. It was CONTINUING to rely on wood and prior that was his downfall.

 

2006: 29th in OBP, 28th in Runs

2005: 20th in OBP, 20th in Runs

2004: 22nd in OBP, 16th in Runs

2003: 24th in OBP, 20th in Runs

 

Something tells me pitching (namely relying on Wood and Prior) hasn't been the only major problem this team has had over the past four years.

 

Agreed. Relying on Prior and Wood was a big problem but it surely wasn't the only problem the team had the past couple years. You don't finish with the worst record in the NL because you rely on two pitchers and they get hurt.

 

That's right, because if they didn't get hurt, you wouldn't finish anywhere near the bottom.

 

You also wouldn't finish anywhere near the top. If a team finishes in last place because two of their best pitchers got hurt, chances are that team wouldn't even sniff the playoffs if those two players were healthy. The point is, if a team finishes in last place in their league, that team probably sucks.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I'm still predicting a deal along the lines of the Oswalt deal.

 

 

Zambrano gets a 3 million signing bonus to go along with his 12.4 million salary for this year.

 

In 2008: 13.6 million.

2009: 15 million

2010: 16.5 million

2011: 17.5 million

 

There would be a 2012 team option for 19 million with a 2 million buyout making it a guaranteed 5/80 deal.