Big Z will leave

[soapy]

 

I thought he mentioned having a Zito like contract.

 

He mentioned it, but did he say he'd take no less than that? I'm not sure if I've seen his exact quotes, but I don't recall him saying he'd take no less than what Zito got. Perhaps I missed it.

 

Even so, there is still a (reasonable) chance that he'll take less than that and far less than he'd get on the open market. I think it's a little early to be slamming the guy. No deal has been done, yet.

[soapy]

In sum, and for the record, my position is that:

 

- 7 yrs and 100-something mill is too much for any pitcher not in the all-time upper echelon;

- I'd therefore prefer to trade Z for ARod, a deal I think is very realistic;

- This is not a reflection on my opinion of Z or his comments - good for him. He should be out there to get a fat contract.

 

Exactly. I've maybe seem 3 or 4 people in this thread who are "angry" at Z. Most just seem to be discussing the pros and cons of trading him.

 

I certainly understand the concern there. I'm not really sure how I feel about it. If people like Wood and/or Weaver can be had (or ARod), I'd make the trade.

[Soul]

Are there many people who are angry at Z?

 

There are plenty of people calling him a selfish prick (or similar) and questioning his loyalty (to the point of ridiculousness, IMO). All for expecting to be paid the same amount as someone who is performes below his level.

 

To each his own, I guess. We'll see what happens.

 

I'm sure there are some people on the board who were hoping that Zambrano appreciated the Cubs and truly wanted to be a Cub for a long time. I think from a fan standpoint, it is easier to cheer for a player that truly enjoys playing for the team you root for rather than a guy that is simply looking for the biggest payday. And yes, there are more things involved than money regarding a contract extension. There are many examples of players that signed home town discount deals for below what they could have gotten on the open market. In the NL Central alone, Carpenter and Oswalt could have possibly made much more on the open market than the deals they signed. Wood could have made more signing with another team this past off season.

 

I don't blame a player for being soley about the money, or wanting to get the biggest payday he can get. But I can see why many fans would be or are upset over a player only concerned about money.

 

Did Z mention specifics about what he wants though? I thought his main difficulty was that there hasn't been any real negotiating taking place, no real push to get a deal done and he wants one done. We're all speculating as to what he would really sign for.

 

I thought he mentioned having a Zito like contract.

 

Here's what I saw:

 

"Zito is a great pitcher. Good for him he has that contract, and I think that will help me," Zambrano said last month.

 

"Jim spent a lot of money. I hope he has more for `Big Z.'"

 

Maybe there's something else that I didn't see, but I don't view that as laying down the law that the money must be Zito's.

[tkenm356]

I'm not mad at Z for wanting Zito money, I'm mad at him for not having the least bit of tact when discussing his long-term contract. If he came out and said he's looking for Zito money and he thinks he deserves it and hopes to get it done, fine, no biggie, we all know that.

 

But since he came out and said basically that if they don't sign him by opening day then he's leaving the Cubs at the end of the season? That's just frustrating to hear and stupid to say. Why would you word a touchy situation like that? You're just asking for trouble if you put it that way

[soapy]

I'm not mad at Z for wanting Zito money, I'm mad at him for not having the least bit of tact when discussing his long-term contract. If he came out and said he's looking for Zito money and he thinks he deserves it and hopes to get it done, fine, no biggie, we all know that.

 

But since he came out and said basically that if they don't sign him by opening day then he's leaving the Cubs at the end of the season? That's just frustrating to hear and stupid to say. Why would you word a touchy situation like that? You're just asking for trouble if you put it that way

 

Again, did he even say that? I need to go back and look at these quotes again. I don't remember him saying he's definitely gone if they don't have the deal by opening day.

 

Edit:

 

"I'm ready to sign, and I would do my job anyway with the Cubs this year," Zambrano said. "Whatever happens, I don't want to know [anything] about a contract during the season. I want to sign with the Cubs before the season starts. If they don't sign me, sorry, but I must go. That's what Carlos Zambrano thinks."

 

I guess that could be read a few different ways. I don't think it means he won't negotiate with the Cubs after this upcoming season. I guess I'm just giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Edited February 14, 2007 by soapy

[CuseCubFan69]

Are there many people who are angry at Z?

 

There are plenty of people calling him a selfish prick (or similar) and questioning his loyalty (to the point of ridiculousness, IMO). All for expecting to be paid the same amount as someone who is performes below his level.

 

To each his own, I guess. We'll see what happens.

 

I'm sure there are some people on the board who were hoping that Zambrano appreciated the Cubs and truly wanted to be a Cub for a long time. I think from a fan standpoint, it is easier to cheer for a player that truly enjoys playing for the team you root for rather than a guy that is simply looking for the biggest payday. And yes, there are more things involved than money regarding a contract extension. There are many examples of players that signed home town discount deals for below what they could have gotten on the open market. In the NL Central alone, Carpenter and Oswalt could have possibly made much more on the open market than the deals they signed. Wood could have made more signing with another team this past off season.

 

I don't blame a player for being soley about the money, or wanting to get the biggest payday he can get. But I can see why many fans would be or are upset over a player only concerned about money.

 

Did Z mention specifics about what he wants though? I thought his main difficulty was that there hasn't been any real negotiating taking place, no real push to get a deal done and he wants one done. We're all speculating as to what he would really sign for.

 

I thought he mentioned having a Zito like contract.

 

Here's what I saw:

 

"Zito is a great pitcher. Good for him he has that contract, and I think that will help me," Zambrano said last month.

 

"Jim spent a lot of money. I hope he has more for `Big Z.'"

 

Maybe there's something else that I didn't see, but I don't view that as laying down the law that the money must be Zito's.

 

Yeah that sounds like there might be a little room for negotiating and not the 18 per. If I were to guess on what he would get from the Cubs and sign for it would be 16.8 per year for 6 years.

[CubColtPacer]

Here's the wanting to be paid like Zito quote:

 

”You take less than Zito take and everybody talks about you, saying, ‘Zambrano sign a bad contract,”’ Zambrano said. ”You take more and everybody says, ‘Zambrano is taking advantage.’ I think the thing is to be around what Zito signed for, more or the same.”

 

http://baseballcritic.wordpress.com/2007/01/22/zambrano-on-the-zito-trail/

[CubColtPacer]

I'm not mad at Z for wanting Zito money, I'm mad at him for not having the least bit of tact when discussing his long-term contract. If he came out and said he's looking for Zito money and he thinks he deserves it and hopes to get it done, fine, no biggie, we all know that.

 

But since he came out and said basically that if they don't sign him by opening day then he's leaving the Cubs at the end of the season? That's just frustrating to hear and stupid to say. Why would you word a touchy situation like that? You're just asking for trouble if you put it that way

 

Again, did he even say that? I need to go back and look at these quotes again. I don't remember him saying he's definitely gone if they don't have the deal by opening day.

 

He said that he must get a deal before the season, and if the Cubs don't sign him, he must go-that certainly sounds like it's definite unless he backs off of that statement.

[soapy]

I'm not mad at Z for wanting Zito money, I'm mad at him for not having the least bit of tact when discussing his long-term contract. If he came out and said he's looking for Zito money and he thinks he deserves it and hopes to get it done, fine, no biggie, we all know that.

 

But since he came out and said basically that if they don't sign him by opening day then he's leaving the Cubs at the end of the season? That's just frustrating to hear and stupid to say. Why would you word a touchy situation like that? You're just asking for trouble if you put it that way

 

Again, did he even say that? I need to go back and look at these quotes again. I don't remember him saying he's definitely gone if they don't have the deal by opening day.

 

He said that he must get a deal before the season, and if the Cubs don't sign him, he must go-that certainly sounds like it's definite unless he backs off of that statement.

 

I edited my post. I'm still not sure that's exactly what he means, but I can see why it would be interpreted that way.

[Soul]

Here's the wanting to be paid like Zito quote:

 

”You take less than Zito take and everybody talks about you, saying, ‘Zambrano sign a bad contract,”’ Zambrano said. ”You take more and everybody says, ‘Zambrano is taking advantage.’ I think the thing is to be around what Zito signed for, more or the same.”

 

http://baseballcritic.wordpress.com/2007/01/22/zambrano-on-the-zito-trail/

 

I never saw that quote before. Is there a better source than a blog?

[CubColtPacer]

Here's the wanting to be paid like Zito quote:

 

”You take less than Zito take and everybody talks about you, saying, ‘Zambrano sign a bad contract,”’ Zambrano said. ”You take more and everybody says, ‘Zambrano is taking advantage.’ I think the thing is to be around what Zito signed for, more or the same.”

 

http://baseballcritic.wordpress.com/2007/01/22/zambrano-on-the-zito-trail/

 

I never saw that quote before. Is there a better source than a blog?

 

Sure-here you go.

 

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cubs/220720,CST-SPT-csep20.article

[rocket]

"I'm not concerned about that at all. In fact, I think when he gets here, he'll probably clear that up," Hendry said of Carlos Zambrano's contract talk, according to the Chicago Sun-Times. ''That wouldn't make much sense to take that stance. I think what he probably meant -- well, I'll let him speak for himself -- but what his agent has represented to me is that if we don't have something done by Opening Day, we'll table it for another time. That's the Carlos that I know, but I'll let him speak for himself. But [the ultimatum] would certainly be totally different than what I have been told."

 

Link

[BigSlick]

This is so bizarre. For 8 friggin' injury filled years, you guys have latched onto Kerry Wood's jock. After, like, basically one game.

 

And now Zambrano wants some money, and *poof* you guys want him traded immediately. Unbelievable.

[USSoccer]

This is so bizarre. For 8 friggin' injury filled years, you guys have latched onto Kerry Wood's jock. After, like, basically one game.

 

And now Zambrano wants some money, and *poof* you guys want him traded immediately. Unbelievable.

 

Way to take well thgouht out and nuanced opinions and reduce them to their lowest common denominator.

[BigSlick]

This is so bizarre. For 8 friggin' injury filled years, you guys have latched onto Kerry Wood's jock. After, like, basically one game.

 

And now Zambrano wants some money, and *poof* you guys want him traded immediately. Unbelievable.

 

Way to take well thgouht out and nuanced opinions and reduce them to their lowest common denominator.

 

its what i do.

 

Seriously though it does seem strange how fast you guys are abandoning Zambrano.

 

It doesn't seem like that to you?

[rocket]

This is so bizarre. For 8 friggin' injury filled years, you guys have latched onto Kerry Wood's jock. After, like, basically one game.

 

And now Zambrano wants some money, and *poof* you guys want him traded immediately. Unbelievable.

 

Way to take well thgouht out and nuanced opinions and reduce them to their lowest common denominator.

 

its what i do.

 

Seriously though it does seem strange how fast you guys are abandoning Zambrano.

 

It doesn't seem like that to you?

 

they're 2 completely different situations. when kerry wood was going to be re-signed a few years ago, it was understood it would be around a 3 year deal. no one dreamed of a 6-7 year deal.

 

if zambrano was asking for a 3 year deal, probably no one here at all would advocate trading him, they'd want that deal done asap.

 

but there's a huge difference between a 3 year deal and a 7 year deal. i don't think the situations are comparable.

[BigSlick]

Honestly I'm not even talking about specifics here, just the general mood and attitude towards Zambrano has changed just because of some comments he made.

 

I honestly don't see him being this hardcore in negotiations.

[USSoccer]

This is so bizarre. For 8 friggin' injury filled years, you guys have latched onto Kerry Wood's jock. After, like, basically one game.

 

And now Zambrano wants some money, and *poof* you guys want him traded immediately. Unbelievable.

 

Way to take well thgouht out and nuanced opinions and reduce them to their lowest common denominator.

 

its what i do.

 

Seriously though it does seem strange how fast you guys are abandoning Zambrano.

 

It doesn't seem like that to you?

 

No it doesn't.

 

It seems like people are looking at his situation and realizing that giving a pitcher $20m per over a long term when that pitcher has giant red injury flags everywhere might be a bad idea, so they are open to the idea that trading him could bring in a terrific haul of players.

[BigSlick]

This is so bizarre. For 8 friggin' injury filled years, you guys have latched onto Kerry Wood's jock. After, like, basically one game.

 

And now Zambrano wants some money, and *poof* you guys want him traded immediately. Unbelievable.

 

Way to take well thgouht out and nuanced opinions and reduce them to their lowest common denominator.

 

its what i do.

 

Seriously though it does seem strange how fast you guys are abandoning Zambrano.

 

It doesn't seem like that to you?

 

No it doesn't.

 

It seems like people are looking at his situation and realizing that giving a pitcher $20m per over a long term when that pitcher has giant red injury flags everywhere might be a bad idea, so they are open to the idea that trading him could bring in a terrific haul of players.

 

Replace "players" with "prospects" and you are right.

 

How long can we delay being even, you know, decent?

[BigbadB]

This is so bizarre. For 8 friggin' injury filled years, you guys have latched onto Kerry Wood's jock. After, like, basically one game.

 

And now Zambrano wants some money, and *poof* you guys want him traded immediately. Unbelievable.

 

Way to take well thgouht out and nuanced opinions and reduce them to their lowest common denominator.

 

its what i do.

 

Seriously though it does seem strange how fast you guys are abandoning Zambrano.

 

It doesn't seem like that to you?

 

Nobody is abandoning Zambrano. The reality is that he's about to become a free agent, and it's doubtful, IMO, that the Cubs will pony up the money to keep him.

 

That being the case, if I could get 2 or more major league ready prospects that could help this team now and into the future or a couple of draft picks that won't be able to help until 2010, I'll take what I can get now.

 

Can the Cubs outbid the Yankees next year? I'm thinking not.

[USSoccer]

This is so bizarre. For 8 friggin' injury filled years, you guys have latched onto Kerry Wood's jock. After, like, basically one game.

 

And now Zambrano wants some money, and *poof* you guys want him traded immediately. Unbelievable.

 

Way to take well thgouht out and nuanced opinions and reduce them to their lowest common denominator.

 

its what i do.

 

Seriously though it does seem strange how fast you guys are abandoning Zambrano.

 

It doesn't seem like that to you?

 

No it doesn't.

 

It seems like people are looking at his situation and realizing that giving a pitcher $20m per over a long term when that pitcher has giant red injury flags everywhere might be a bad idea, so they are open to the idea that trading him could bring in a terrific haul of players.

 

Replace "players" with "prospects" and you are right.

 

How long can we delay being even, you know, decent?

 

I haven't seen a single trade idea that's not contained either a uber-awesome pitching prospect or a good ML player.

 

ANA-Weaver, Kendrick, Adenhart seems to be the preferred package

NYY-Hughes, Sanchez and Tabata or ARod.

 

Weaver is an excellent P prospect with ML experience. Hughes is the #1 P prospect in baseball. Kendrick is a top prospect.

 

It's not like people are tossing out AA names.

[radarluv1]

z could go for 3/57-60 and still get a big payday when hes 28 (or 29?), something like furcal is trying to do. if healthy, he could be a bargain at $17 M in 2013 at the age of 32 the way salaries are escalating. thats if my age/year calculations are correct.

[BigbadB]

z could go for 3/57-60 and still get a big payday when hes 28 (or 29?), something like furcal is trying to do. if healthy, he could be a bargain at $17 M in 2013 at the age of 32 the way salaries are escalating. thats if my age/year calculations are correct.

 

To me, that's way too risky for a pitcher like Z. It should be all about years and cash, because you never know when your arm is going to fall off.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

z could go for 3/57-60 and still get a big payday when hes 28 (or 29?), something like furcal is trying to do. if healthy, he could be a bargain at $17 M in 2013 at the age of 32 the way salaries are escalating. thats if my age/year calculations are correct.

 

To me, that's way too risky for a pitcher like Z. It should be all about years and cash, because you never know when your arm is going to fall off.

 

Yeah, if I was in Z's shoes, I'd want 6+ years. Not just for the injury risk, but who knows what the market is like in 3 years.

[BigbadB]

Not to mention the fact he could get another long contract after his 6 year contract is up.