Helton to the Red Sox?

[Backtobanks]

Like trade ARod to the Cubs!

 

I'm curious who the Sox are going to give up for him and how much they are willing to pick up salary wise.

 

 

The Denver Post[/url]"]As first reported by The Denver Post on Saturday, the Rockies have discussed sending Helton to Boston, targeting young relievers Craig Hansen and Manny Delcarmen. The Red Sox have offered third baseman Mike Lowell and reliever Julian Tavarez, but are reluctant, thus far, to give up either young pitcher.

 

While an initial framework has been established on the $90.1 million remaining on Helton's contract - the Rockies would be responsible for a little more than $40 million as it stands - Helton's understandable desire for a speedy conclusion is also an important factor.

 

Helton, 33, has indicated to the Rockies that he would waive his no-trade clause for the Red Sox, but he is prepared to veto any deal if it is not consummated soon, not wanting to deal with an endless stream of distractions during this season and beyond.

 

Negotiations are expected to resume Monday or Tuesday when Rockies general manager Dan O'Dowd returns after tending to a family matter out of town. The Red Sox's posture Saturday was to slightly downplay the talks, stressing a lack of urgency because they like their current lineup.

 

However, a major-league source who has spoken directly with the Red Sox said Saturday night there is still a good chance the deal gets done if Boston can get Helton for less than $10 million annually over the next six seasons.

 

FoxSports.com also identified Double-A center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury, a first-round selection of the Red Sox, the No. 23 pick overall in the 2005 draft, as a potential piece in a deal.

 

I repeat my earlier post, is there some way we can get in on this deal since the Rockies want young pitching (which we seem to have)? Somehow maybe we could get Crisp or Pena.

[rawaction]

Yeah, if I'm trading a well above average offensive player (Helton), taking on nearly half of his contract, and forced to take an average at best player with a decent sized contract in return (Lowell), I'd at least ask for 1 top prospect.

 

Helton for Ellsbury, Lowell, and Delcarmen seems about fair to me.

[rawaction]

Like trade ARod to the Cubs!

 

I'm curious who the Sox are going to give up for him and how much they are willing to pick up salary wise.

 

 

The Denver Post[/url]"]As first reported by The Denver Post on Saturday, the Rockies have discussed sending Helton to Boston, targeting young relievers Craig Hansen and Manny Delcarmen. The Red Sox have offered third baseman Mike Lowell and reliever Julian Tavarez, but are reluctant, thus far, to give up either young pitcher.

 

While an initial framework has been established on the $90.1 million remaining on Helton's contract - the Rockies would be responsible for a little more than $40 million as it stands - Helton's understandable desire for a speedy conclusion is also an important factor.

 

Helton, 33, has indicated to the Rockies that he would waive his no-trade clause for the Red Sox, but he is prepared to veto any deal if it is not consummated soon, not wanting to deal with an endless stream of distractions during this season and beyond.

 

Negotiations are expected to resume Monday or Tuesday when Rockies general manager Dan O'Dowd returns after tending to a family matter out of town. The Red Sox's posture Saturday was to slightly downplay the talks, stressing a lack of urgency because they like their current lineup.

 

However, a major-league source who has spoken directly with the Red Sox said Saturday night there is still a good chance the deal gets done if Boston can get Helton for less than $10 million annually over the next six seasons.

 

FoxSports.com also identified Double-A center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury, a first-round selection of the Red Sox, the No. 23 pick overall in the 2005 draft, as a potential piece in a deal.

 

I repeat my earlier post, is there some way we can get in on this deal since the Rockies want young pitching (which we seem to have)? Somehow maybe we could get Crisp or Pena.

 

I'd be interest in Coco. Not sure I'd be willing to give up that good of a prospect, though.

 

Maybe:

 

Helton and Ohman to Boston

Crisp and a prospect to Chicago

Marshall, Lowell, Delcarmen and Ellsbury to Colorado.

[Guest]

So, The New York/Boston Yankeeing Red Sox (seeing as I see them s ONE organization) are at it again. And Selig is the only guy that doesn't see the problem.

[CuseCubFan69]

Thanks Ser...Laura! This might be an interesting move for the Sox if they can pull it off. Helton scares me with his back thing and being a little paranoid about possible steroids use as he was accused of using them.

 

I want ARod now not later in 2008.

[baseball7897]

If the Rockies end up getting both Craig Hansen and Manny Delcarmen, then they would be the winners in this deal. Hansen and Delcarmen are two very talented young right handers.

[RichHillIsABeast]

Why would the BoSox trade away quality? Helton's contract (and back) is so monsterously bad, the Rockies should be happy just to eat some of it and get a B prospect in return.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Why would the BoSox trade away quality? Helton's contract (and back) is so monsterously bad, the Rockies should be happy just to eat some of it and get a B prospect in return.

 

Because Helton is very good at baseball.

[RichHillIsABeast]

Why would the BoSox trade away quality? Helton's contract (and back) is so monsterously bad, the Rockies should be happy just to eat some of it and get a B prospect in return.

 

Because Helton is very good at baseball.

 

So are Mark Prior and Kerry Wood - and they don't have ridiculous contracts.

 

Edit: Actually Helton's played in a lot more games than I thought. but his back is still horrible. It's not going to suddenly get better. dude's power has really disappeared.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Why would the BoSox trade away quality? Helton's contract (and back) is so monsterously bad, the Rockies should be happy just to eat some of it and get a B prospect in return.

 

Because Helton is very good at baseball.

 

So are Mark Prior and Kerry Wood - and they don't have ridiculous contracts.

 

Edit: Actually Helton's played in a lot more games than I thought. but his back is still horrible. It's not going to suddenly get better. dude's power has really disappeared.

 

With the Red Sox, they value his OBP over his power. They have power with Ortiz and Manny. Drew has some power of his own.

 

While Helton's power has declined, his OBP has remained higher than 400 in every season since 1999.

[Balsa]

His contract is ridiculous, and his power is declining.

 

I don't think his contract would be worth the OBP.

[nilodnayr]

His contract is ridiculous, and his power is declining.

 

I don't think his contract would be worth the OBP.

 

Thats why the Rox are going to have to eat half of it, duh.

[Soul]

Why would the BoSox trade away quality? Helton's contract (and back) is so monsterously bad, the Rockies should be happy just to eat some of it and get a B prospect in return.

 

Because Helton is very good at baseball.

 

So are Mark Prior and Kerry Wood - and they don't have ridiculous contracts.

 

Edit: Actually Helton's played in a lot more games than I thought. but his back is still horrible. It's not going to suddenly get better. dude's power has really disappeared.

 

With the Red Sox, they value his OBP over his power. They have power with Ortiz and Manny. Drew has some power of his own.

 

While Helton's power has declined, his OBP has remained higher than 400 in every season since 1999.

 

If the Rockies eat some of this contract, they'd better be getting something very good in return or it's going to be a rape.

[tkenm356]

I hate how for the past 2-3 years writers and everyone alike have been dogging Helton and his declining ability and how he's reached his peak and he'll never be a dominant hitter again, but as soon as there's word he might go to the Red Sox, he all of a sudden makes them the best team ever and he's one of the premier players in baseball again.

 

Why all the capriciousness?

[nilodnayr]

I hate how for the past 2-3 years writers and everyone alike have been dogging Helton and his declining ability and how he's reached his peak and he'll never be a dominant hitter again, but as soon as there's word he might go to the Red Sox, he all of a sudden makes them the best team ever and he's one of the premier players in baseball again.

 

Why all the capriciousness?

 

Because Helton's OPS has decreased by 100 points each of the last two years, going from uber-elite to really really good. However, his OPS is still going to be about 150 points higher than Lowell. Thats about the difference between Izturis and Tejada. If the cubs ended up adding Tejada and subtracting Izturis, what do you think the appropriate reaction would be.

[PrimeTime]

If they get Helton, that is going to be discustingly good lineup.It will be a OBP machine. Lugo,Drew,Ortiz,Manny,Helton just getting through that might take 40 pitches.I can see Boston winning it all pretty much with that lineup and their pitching..Damn them!

[nilodnayr]

If they get Helton, that is going to be discustingly good lineup.It will be a OBP machine. Lugo,Drew,Ortiz,Manny,Helton just getting through that might take 40 pitches.I can see Boston winning it all pretty much with that lineup and their pitching..Damn them!

 

Any discussion about OBP and P/PA that doesnt include Youks, is ridiculous.

 

Hell, Crisp, Pedroia, and Tek should all be at about 4 P/PA and .350 OBP.

 

Thats your 7, 8, and 9 hitters folks.

[ChiCubsFan]

<<

[Rob]

I hate how for the past 2-3 years writers and everyone alike have been dogging Helton and his declining ability and how he's reached his peak and he'll never be a dominant hitter again, but as soon as there's word he might go to the Red Sox, he all of a sudden makes them the best team ever and he's one of the premier players in baseball again.

 

Why all the capriciousness?

 

Because Helton's OPS has decreased by 100 points each of the last two years, going from uber-elite to really really good. However, his OPS is still going to be about 150 points higher than Lowell. Thats about the difference between Izturis and Tejada. If the cubs ended up adding Tejada and subtracting Izturis, what do you think the appropriate reaction would be.

 

Actual differences in OPS between Izturis and Tejada from 2001 through 2006:

 

2001 - .135

2002 - .306

2003 - .211

2004 - .183

2005 - .240

2006 - .264

 

Only once since they broke into the league has Izturis been within 150 points of OPS to Tejada, and that was in a season where Izturis only had 140 PA. As much as I would love to think Izturis could pull within 150 points of OPS to Tejada, the only way he does that is if he puts up better than normal-numbers before getting badly injured and limiting his playing time (which I would like as well)... while hoping Tejada has a down year.

 

(Sorry, couldn't pass up an opportunity to stress again how utterly inept Izturis is with the bat.)

[tkenm356]

I understand the OBP factor, and agree that their lineup will be stacked with Helton in it. I just don't understand the reverse nature of the Helton criticism now that he's rumored to possibly become apart of the Red Sox. It's sickening just how much the media sucks Boston's no-no parts

 

So does this mean Youklis will be going ot the Rockies? If they get Helton where do thet put him? Sorry if this has been addressed, I didn't bother reading the first few pages, I'm tired.

[nilodnayr]

Per Rotoworld..

 

Todd Helton-1B- Rockies Jan. 28 - 10:51 pm et

 

 

With the Rockies still holding out for a top prospect in addition to Mike Lowell and Julian Tavarez, the Todd Helton talks with the Red Sox may be at a standstill.

The Rockies want a player from the group of Jacoby Ellsbury, Daniel Bard, Manny Delcarmen, Craig Hansen and Clay Buchholz in order to complete the deal. Jon Lester is another option, pending a review of his medical records, but it seems unlikely the Red Sox would part with him. Bard also shouldn't be an option, as he's ineligible to be dealt even as a player to be named later after just signing with the Red Sox in September. If the Red Sox can really get Helton and $40 million in return for Lowell, Tavarez and one of the young relievers, we'd have second thoughts about criticizing the deal. It seems doubtful that Helton will be worth even the reduced salary in the second half of the deal, but his addition would give Boston a 2008 lineup nearly the equal of the Yankees'.

Source: Rocky Mountain News

Related: Mike Lowell, Red Sox

 

Jeez if this deal gets held up over Delcarmen or Hansen, that would be a bad move by the BoSox. BP in rating non-rookies 25 or under has those two as #9 and #10 respectively. I mean come on, they already have a future close in Lester (hoping for a full recovery), is a non-closer reliever really going to be the dealbreaker? And IMO adding Helton and subtracting Lowell puts them at a better lineup than the Yanks.

 

Heres an approx comparison of their players by position

 

 

Papi>>Giambi (50 OPS)

Tek=Posada

Helton>>>>Mieny (200 OPS)

Pedroia<

Lugo<

Youk<

Drew>Abreu (30 OPS)

Crisp=Damon

Manny>>>>Matsui (150 OPS)

 

That ends up to about 180 OPS advantage to the BoSox (of course this is cursory and assumes 100% health/no subsitutions). I'd put Helton at a 150 OPS increase over Lowell. So basically I'm saying the lineups are fairly equal right now, Helton swings the balance definitively to the BoSox.

[RichHillIsABeast]

Yes, Helton's contract really is that bad.

[CubColtPacer]

One thing that should be mentioned that hasn't is that Helton's numbers will likely seriously drop moving away from Coors field. Here are his home/road splits from the last 3 years:

 

2004: home-.368/.490/.693, away-.326/.446/.544

2005- home-.353/.471/.616, away-.287/.418/.453

2006- home-.338/.445/.531, away-.266/.360/.421

 

He's 33, his numbers have declined each of the sharply between both of the last 2 years, and his home and away splits have been around 200 points each of the last 3 years. This is most certainly not a sure-fire trade for the Red Sox. In fact-it's certainly possible that they are getting the last 5 years of a contract like Soriano's (depending on how much the Rockies pay) without getting the benefit of the first 3 years of production-and it could be even worse than that if he can't pull those away numbers back up to where they were pre-2006. I think this is an extremely risky trade for the Red Sox, and if they have to give up decent talent, I wouldn't make the deal. Helton might work for 2007, but he's not likely going to work well beyond that.

[CuseCubFan69]

Is Helton a pull hitter?

[BigbadB]

I understand the OBP factor, and agree that their lineup will be stacked with Helton in it. I just don't understand the reverse nature of the Helton criticism now that he's rumored to possibly become apart of the Red Sox. It's sickening just how much the media sucks Boston's no-no parts

 

So does this mean Youklis will be going ot the Rockies? If they get Helton where do thet put him? Sorry if this has been addressed, I didn't bother reading the first few pages, I'm tired.

 

I believe the plan is to move Lowell in the deal so that they can put Youkilis back at 3b.

 

I read a report somewhere that said Helton is feeling better than he has in years. Granted, it is the offseason, but moving from Colorado to Boston isn't that much of a drop off in offensive production, since both are very good hitter's parks.