Other Week 17 NFL Games

[dew1679666265]

If the Titans make the playoffs, Jeff Fisher has to get some serious consideration. Is that team really that talented!? I don't think so.

 

Dangit, I didn't read your post before I posted my rant. :oops: Oh well, I agree with you that Fisher should win if the Titans make the playoffs and should be strongly considered if we don't.

I've also said for a long time that he's easily one of the best coaches in the NFL and the Titans and our fans were rather silly for wanting rid of him.

[Flames24Rulz]

If the Titans make the playoffs, Jeff Fisher has to get some serious consideration. Is that team really that talented!? I don't think so.

 

Good point, except I think Jeff Fisher deserves consideration even if the Titans don't make the playoffs.

 

How about worst coaching job? My ballot goes:

 

1. Art Shell

2. Tom Coughlin

3. Dennis "the Nutty Professor" Green

4. John Fox

 

Don't know how Mora isn't on this list. He underachieved last year with ATL and he's doing the same thing this year. A team with some of the players that they have, both on offense and defense, should have easily made the playoffs this year. Now they are an extreme long shot at making it.

[dew1679666265]

If the Titans make the playoffs, Jeff Fisher has to get some serious consideration. Is that team really that talented!? I don't think so.

 

Good point, except I think Jeff Fisher deserves consideration even if the Titans don't make the playoffs.

 

How about worst coaching job? My ballot goes:

 

1. Art Shell

2. Tom Coughlin

3. Dennis "the Nutty Professor" Green

4. John Fox

 

I actually wouldn't go with Art Shell at the top of the list. Sure he hasn't done great but there are coaches with far more talent that are getting less out of their team. At least Shell has the defense playing well. My bottom five are:

 

1. Tom Coughlin (even late injuries aren't an excuse for the team's horrible play the last few weeks)

2. John Fox (would be #1 but he gets some slack because he was missing Steve Smith early and Jake Delhomme recently)

3. Dennis Green (I never thought the Cards would be great- their o-line is still too young- but they should have been respectable)

4. Jack Del Rio (lots of talent but he couldn't even realize his best QB was Leftwich, plus that insanely talented D is showing some holes)

5. Art Shell (don't think he should be fired, let him work for a couple more years since the defense is solid)

[CubmanPi]

I agree that Fisher and Mangini deserve some strong consideration for coach of the year, and that Peyton should get it regardless of what happens in the AFC.

 

Hester and VY have done enough to earn some ROY considerations, but if the MVP isn't a (nearly) unanimous vote for LT, every NFL sportswriter in the country needs to be fired immediately.

[soccer10k]

I actually wouldn't go with Art Shell at the top of the list. Sure he hasn't done great but there are coaches with far more talent that are getting less out of their team. At least Shell has the defense playing well. My bottom five are:

 

1. Tom Coughlin (even late injuries aren't an excuse for the team's horrible play the last few weeks)

2. John Fox (would be #1 but he gets some slack because he was missing Steve Smith early and Jake Delhomme recently)

3. Dennis Green (I never thought the Cards would be great- their o-line is still too young- but they should have been respectable)

4. Jack Del Rio (lots of talent but he couldn't even realize his best QB was Leftwich, plus that insanely talented D is showing some holes)

5. Art Shell (don't think he should be fired, let him work for a couple more years since the defense is solid)

 

Yes, the Raiders defense is good. But doesn't it say something that the defense is good (4th least ypg allowed) but the team is 2-13? That offense is, by far, the worst in the league and is completely incompetent. Fewest ppg and ypg. Randy Moss doesn't care. Shell pissed off Jerry Porter in the beginning of the year. He picked an offensive coordinator who hadn't worked in football AT ANY LEVEL since 1999 and then replaced him with John Shoop. The offense has scored 12 touchdowns this year. 12. The Raiders have some talent on offense. It's not great, but it's there. It shouldn't be worst in the league bad. They play in a tough division but should have at least 4 more wins this year.

 

I realize that the Raiders didn't really have any expectations the year so they aren't the biggest disappointment this year. But Art Shell is a horrendous coach. I would take any of the four coaches you listed over Art Shell any day of the week without even thinking about it.

[soccer10k]

Packers/Bears moved to SNF. My mind is boggled. Surely they could've found two teams vying for a playoff spot?

 

The Packers are vying for a playoff spot.

Jacksonville/KC features two teams are going for a playoff spot. And there are many other games where one team is going for a playoff spot, and their opponent might actually leave the starters in well into the 2nd half. :wink:

 

Another good one (and maybe I'm just a homer) seems to be New England/Tennessee. Two teams fighting for playoff position (NE) and the miraculous hope that they can make it (TN). Seems like a great story to me, plus like ndistops said, both teams will leave in their starters.

Also, it's an absolute crime that no one in the media has even mentioned Jeff Fisher for Coach of the Year. If the Titans miss the playoffs I don't think he should get it, but if we do there's no team more unlikely or generally less talented.

 

Yeah. When I was setting up the scoreboard at work tonight I was looking at the games more closely and I would have liked to see the New England/Tennessee game moved to Sunday night. The only problem with that is, which I just thought of, is that all the other games will have been played so theoretically the playoff positions could all be determined already (i.e. if NY Jets and Denver both win then Tennessee is out). This is why the NFL should have all the games be played at the same. When Jamal Lewis got his 2000 yards a couple years ago, Billick didn't play him much in the second half (he could have set the single season record) because they were playing in the Sunday Night game and their playoff seeding was secured.

 

If the NFL doesn't want to have all the games played at one time then in Week 17 they should have only NFC-NFC and AFC-AFC matchups instead of AFC-NFC matchups. Then all the NFC games can be played at one time and all the AFC games at the later time. That way, every team with a shot at the playoffs (or with their specific playoff seed in doubt) will have to give it their all.

[Banedon]

Oh and he adds this gem:

 

Eric Mangini locks in for NFL Coach of the Year.

 

Hello Sean Payton??

 

That's actually a legitimate argument though. I would vote Payton but Mangini has to be second. Although I would consider voting for Art Shell over both of them seeing as he has done an absolutely spectacular job this year.

 

My problem was with the "locks in" argument. Mangini is far from a lock, though he's clearly a strong candidate. I'd put him 3rd behind Payton and Fisher though.

[dew1679666265]

I actually wouldn't go with Art Shell at the top of the list. Sure he hasn't done great but there are coaches with far more talent that are getting less out of their team. At least Shell has the defense playing well. My bottom five are:

 

1. Tom Coughlin (even late injuries aren't an excuse for the team's horrible play the last few weeks)

2. John Fox (would be #1 but he gets some slack because he was missing Steve Smith early and Jake Delhomme recently)

3. Dennis Green (I never thought the Cards would be great- their o-line is still too young- but they should have been respectable)

4. Jack Del Rio (lots of talent but he couldn't even realize his best QB was Leftwich, plus that insanely talented D is showing some holes)

5. Art Shell (don't think he should be fired, let him work for a couple more years since the defense is solid)

 

Yes, the Raiders defense is good. But doesn't it say something that the defense is good (4th least ypg allowed) but the team is 2-13? That offense is, by far, the worst in the league and is completely incompetent. Fewest ppg and ypg. Randy Moss doesn't care. Shell pissed off Jerry Porter in the beginning of the year. He picked an offensive coordinator who hadn't worked in football AT ANY LEVEL since 1999 and then replaced him with John Shoop. The offense has scored 12 touchdowns this year. 12. The Raiders have some talent on offense. It's not great, but it's there. It shouldn't be worst in the league bad. They play in a tough division but should have at least 4 more wins this year.

 

I realize that the Raiders didn't really have any expectations the year so they aren't the biggest disappointment this year. But Art Shell is a horrendous coach. I would take any of the four coaches you listed over Art Shell any day of the week without even thinking about it.

 

He certainly hasn't done a good job but he has significantly less talent than any of the other coaches on there. It's true that Randy Moss and Jerry Porter are on the offense, but Aaron Brooks and Andrew Walter have been throwing them the ball. The o-line is awful and the offensive struggles have caused Moss and Porter to basically quit on the team (which they've been known to do-especially Moss).

Shell should go out and find a good offensive coordinator, the Raiders should take Brady Quinn or another good QB in the draft and get rid of Moss and Porter.

Will they be good next year doing that? No, but they also won't trying to patch the current issues. Rebuild around that solid, young defense and try to develop an offense.

I still think it's too early to fire Shell.

[dew1679666265]

Packers/Bears moved to SNF. My mind is boggled. Surely they could've found two teams vying for a playoff spot?

 

The Packers are vying for a playoff spot.

Jacksonville/KC features two teams are going for a playoff spot. And there are many other games where one team is going for a playoff spot, and their opponent might actually leave the starters in well into the 2nd half. :wink:

 

Another good one (and maybe I'm just a homer) seems to be New England/Tennessee. Two teams fighting for playoff position (NE) and the miraculous hope that they can make it (TN). Seems like a great story to me, plus like ndistops said, both teams will leave in their starters.

Also, it's an absolute crime that no one in the media has even mentioned Jeff Fisher for Coach of the Year. If the Titans miss the playoffs I don't think he should get it, but if we do there's no team more unlikely or generally less talented.

 

Yeah. When I was setting up the scoreboard at work tonight I was looking at the games more closely and I would have liked to see the New England/Tennessee game moved to Sunday night. The only problem with that is, which I just thought of, is that all the other games will have been played so theoretically the playoff positions could all be determined already (i.e. if NY Jets and Denver both win then Tennessee is out). This is why the NFL should have all the games be played at the same. When Jamal Lewis got his 2000 yards a couple years ago, Billick didn't play him much in the second half (he could have set the single season record) because they were playing in the Sunday Night game and their playoff seeding was secured.

 

If the NFL doesn't want to have all the games played at one time then in Week 17 they should have only NFC-NFC and AFC-AFC matchups instead of AFC-NFC matchups. Then all the NFC games can be played at one time and all the AFC games at the later time. That way, every team with a shot at the playoffs (or with their specific playoff seed in doubt) will have to give it their all.

 

Good point, I hadn't thought of that. It could work the other way, though. Consider if the Broncos and Bengals both lose and the Chiefs win. All of a sudden the Titans are in a win and in situation. That would be a great story and game.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Payton hands down should be coach of the year. The team had three wins last season and now has secured the second spot in the NFC. While Fisher has done a decent job turning around Tennesee and Mangini has been good for the Jets, no one anticipated what Payton has done with the Saints.

[Banedon]

HAHAHA...from Dr Z's rankings...bold added by me:

 

New Orleans Saints (10-5)

They came into Giants Stadium and offered the game to the home team. "Here, you want it?" They proved it by dropping 10 passes. The Giants said no thank you, it would just confuse our fans. So the Saints walked away with the 30-7 win, and here's my favorite stat, the likes of which I have never seen before: New Orleans ran 54 plays in Giants' territory. And how many plays did New York run on the Saints' side? Zero.

[dew1679666265]

Payton hands down should be coach of the year. The team had three wins last season and now has secured the second spot in the NFC. While Fisher has done a decent job turning around Tennesee and Mangini has been good for the Jets, no one anticipated what Payton has done with the Saints.

 

Payton's done a great job, but if the Titans make the playoffs Fisher's got to win. The Titans have some of the least talent overall of anybody and Fisher (with some luck of course) would have turned them into a playoff team.

If the Titans don't make the playoffs, then Payton probably should win it.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Payton hands down should be coach of the year. The team had three wins last season and now has secured the second spot in the NFC. While Fisher has done a decent job turning around Tennesee and Mangini has been good for the Jets, no one anticipated what Payton has done with the Saints.

 

Payton's done a great job, but if the Titans make the playoffs Fisher's got to win. The Titans have some of the least talent overall of anybody and Fisher (with some luck of course) would have turned them into a playoff team.

If the Titans don't make the playoffs, then Payton probably should win it.

 

I disagree. Before the season, no one thought the Saints had any talent either. Even at 3-0, people were doubting the Saints. While Fisher has done a nice job bringing a mid-season resugence to the Titans, Payton started his outstanding job in training camp and has his team which had a worse 2005 record than the Titans not only in the playoffs, but has secured them a first round bye. Payton has been the coach of the year, and it's not even close.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Payton hands down should be coach of the year. The team had three wins last season and now has secured the second spot in the NFC. While Fisher has done a decent job turning around Tennesee and Mangini has been good for the Jets, no one anticipated what Payton has done with the Saints.

 

Payton's done a great job, but if the Titans make the playoffs Fisher's got to win. The Titans have some of the least talent overall of anybody and Fisher (with some luck of course) would have turned them into a playoff team.

If the Titans don't make the playoffs, then Payton probably should win it.

 

I disagree. Before the season, no one thought the Saints had any talent either. Even at 3-0, people were doubting the Saints. While Fisher has done a nice job bringing a mid-season resugence to the Titans, Payton started his outstanding job in training camp and has his team which had a worse 2005 record than the Titans not only in the playoffs, but has secured them a first round bye. Payton has been the coach of the year, and it's not even close.

 

The Saints have more talent than the Titans though - even at the beginning of the season, I don't think too many people would think otherwise. Sure, expectations were low for both teams, but with the Saints, expectations were low because of previous lack of success and questions over Brees' health. I figured the Saints would be much better than the Titans, so their being in the playoff hunt is as impressive to me as the Saints having the second best record in the NFC.

[dew1679666265]

Payton hands down should be coach of the year. The team had three wins last season and now has secured the second spot in the NFC. While Fisher has done a decent job turning around Tennesee and Mangini has been good for the Jets, no one anticipated what Payton has done with the Saints.

 

Payton's done a great job, but if the Titans make the playoffs Fisher's got to win. The Titans have some of the least talent overall of anybody and Fisher (with some luck of course) would have turned them into a playoff team.

If the Titans don't make the playoffs, then Payton probably should win it.

 

I disagree. Before the season, no one thought the Saints had any talent either. Even at 3-0, people were doubting the Saints. While Fisher has done a nice job bringing a mid-season resugence to the Titans, Payton started his outstanding job in training camp and has his team which had a worse 2005 record than the Titans not only in the playoffs, but has secured them a first round bye. Payton has been the coach of the year, and it's not even close.

 

The Saints have more talent than the Titans though - even at the beginning of the season, I don't think too many people would think otherwise. Sure, expectations were low for both teams, but with the Saints, expectations were low because of previous lack of success and questions over Brees' health. I figured the Saints would be much better than the Titans, so their being in the playoff hunt is as impressive to me as the Saints having the second best record in the NFC.

 

Exactly. I'm not so much surprised the Saints are in the playoffs as that they are the second seed. I didn't think before the year that the Saints would be in the playoffs, but I thought they could be respectable.

I'm surprised the Titans have more than 4 wins.

[Mark_R]

I certainly disagree with Jack Del Rio being on the worst coaches of the year list. His team has been decimated by injuries to Peterson, Spicer, and Stroud all season. They have played some poor games, yes, but he has done a very fine job down there.

[dew1679666265]

I certainly disagree with Jack Del Rio being on the worst coaches of the year list. His team has been decimated by injuries to Peterson, Spicer, and Stroud all season. They have played some poor games, yes, but he has done a very fine job down there.

 

They've had injuries but have also grossly underperformed. Del Rio also allowed the rumors between Leftwich and Garrard to get too big. They should have 11-12 wins with the injuries, as it is they're likely to miss the playoffs. Plus they've been swept by the Texans.

[Soul]

Oh and he adds this gem:

 

Eric Mangini locks in for NFL Coach of the Year.

 

Hello Sean Payton??

 

That's actually a legitimate argument though. I would vote Payton but Mangini has to be second. Although I would consider voting for Art Shell over both of them seeing as he has done an absolutely spectacular job this year.

 

My problem was with the "locks in" argument. Mangini is far from a lock, though he's clearly a strong candidate. I'd put him 3rd behind Payton and Fisher though.

 

Mangini will win it though. Because the national media says so, and many voters will simply watch ESPN and take it to heart, then vote without really trying to analyze the situation.

 

In short, the same way of doing things that made Romo the starting pro bowl QB will usher Mangini in as COY.

[UMFan83]

I certainly disagree with Jack Del Rio being on the worst coaches of the year list. His team has been decimated by injuries to Peterson, Spicer, and Stroud all season. They have played some poor games, yes, but he has done a very fine job down there.

 

The thing that bothers me about Jack Del Rio is the inconsistency that he has had. Look at their schedule. Literally one week they look like the NFLs best team and then the very next look terrible.

 

This is their season:

 

Start out 2-0 with wins over the Cowboys and Steelers. Then lose a close game to the Colts, in which the Jags arguably looked like the better team.

 

The next week they completely flop to a Redskins team that looked terrible to that point.

 

Next week they murder the Jets 41-0 and the Washington game looks like a fluke.

 

Then they go out and get blown out by 20 to the Texans

 

Then the next 2 weeks, they post nice wins against the Eagles and Titans (including a 30 point romp over Tennessee)

 

Which they follow up with another loss to the Texans.

 

It just keeps going on and on. Great one week, terrible the next. The story of the 2007 Jaguars.

[Soul]

I certainly disagree with Jack Del Rio being on the worst coaches of the year list. His team has been decimated by injuries to Peterson, Spicer, and Stroud all season. They have played some poor games, yes, but he has done a very fine job down there.

 

The thing that bothers me about Jack Del Rio is the inconsistency that he has had. Look at their schedule. Literally one week they look like the NFLs best team and then the very next look terrible.

 

This is their season:

 

Start out 2-0 with wins over the Cowboys and Steelers. Then lose a close game to the Colts, in which the Jags arguably looked like the better team.

 

The next week they completely flop to a Redskins team that looked terrible to that point.

 

Next week they murder the Jets 41-0 and the Washington game looks like a fluke.

 

Then they go out and get blown out by 20 to the Texans

 

Then the next 2 weeks, they post nice wins against the Eagles and Titans (including a 30 point romp over Tennessee)

 

Which they follow up with another loss to the Texans.

 

It just keeps going on and on. Great one week, terrible the next. The story of the 2007 Jaguars.

 

QB uncertainty also contributes to this. The shock of realizing the Leftwich pick is a bust-----then you throw Gerrard in there, everyone knows he's not a real answer but they have to make it seem that they really believe in him, and it just continues.

 

The Bears have been in that situation so many times, too. I've always wondered, even though there's no way to quantify it, how much just having Orton for almost a whole season from the beginning, and then Grossman for a whole season has helped the Bears gain their footing. Many years we had good defenses but just lost games anyway. I mean I'm sure it isn't the whole story, but having that stability has to help, and not having it just has to hurt.

[Andy]

Reports are that Jake Delhomme may finally return this week. We'll need him to have a prayer against the Saints, even if they aren't going to be going all out.

[Banedon]

Mangini will win it though. Because the national media says so, and many voters will simply watch ESPN and take it to heart, then vote without really trying to analyze the situation.

 

In short, the same way of doing things that made Romo the starting pro bowl QB will usher Mangini in as COY.

 

I disagree. I think Sean Payton wins it easily. The whole "New Orleans rebirth" storyline is going to be an easy angle to take nationally. The Saints are the #2 seed while the Jets have to win this weekend just to get into the playoffs, and both teams started the season having been given no shot at all.

 

I also don't think all of the national media is on the Mangini bandwagon:

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6312776

 

Perhaps you can trace the team's success back to the decisions Loomis made in the off-season, when he was convinced that Sean Payton, the no-brainer 2006 coach of the year, or as he put it, "the perfect person and leader to lead this team on and off the field."

 

Also:

 

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/12/27/SPGP8N67HE1.DTL

 

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/16317418.htm

 

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/16295477.htm

 

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/falcons/stories/2006/12/23/1224nflinsider.html

 

Mangini and Jeff Fisher are going to be runners up.

[Soul]

I hope you're right. But the Romo pro-bowl vote-----clearly a result of the ESPN dumbing-down of the football world----has dampened my confidence.

[Banedon]

I hope you're right. But the Romo pro-bowl vote-----clearly a result of the ESPN dumbing-down of the football world----has dampened my confidence.

 

But I don't think Romo makes it if there's a clear viable alternative. As silly as Romo looks in there, there wasn't an obvious other choice. If Grossman had made it, or if Vick had made it, there would be the same arguments that they didn't deserve it.

 

With the Coach of the Year, I just don't see how Payton gets overlooked.

[goonys evil twin]

I hope you're right. But the Romo pro-bowl vote-----clearly a result of the ESPN dumbing-down of the football world----has dampened my confidence.

 

But I don't think Romo makes it if there's a clear viable alternative. As silly as Romo looks in there, there wasn't an obvious other choice. If Grossman had made it, or if Vick had made it, there would be the same arguments that they didn't deserve it.

 

They wouldn't be the same arguements. Romo had played far fewer games and had far fewer good games.