SI and ESPN report Matsuzaka signs for 6/52

[VanceJergins]

I don't think there's any blame on Boston at all. The reason a team is willing to pony up so much in a posting fee is because they have exclusive rights. Boras is trying to negotiate a contract as if Matsuzaka is a FA. He's not. He's like a first year arby guy. He has the choice of playing for what the team is offering or not at all. The only difference here is that Matsuzaka can go back to Japan and play for less than what the Red Sox want to pay him. Does the system suck? Sure it does. But trying to act like Matsuzaka is getting cheated is ridiculous. It looks like Boston made a fair offer considering they have no competition for his services.

 

I completely agree. Boras is an idiot for thinking a non-FA who has never pitched in the MLB should get $15 million. $8 million is more than fair considering the circumstances.

[Electron Blue]

I don't think there's any blame on Boston at all. The reason a team is willing to pony up so much in a posting fee is because they have exclusive rights. Boras is trying to negotiate a contract as if Matsuzaka is a FA. He's not. He's like a first year arby guy. He has the choice of playing for what the team is offering or not at all. The only difference here is that Matsuzaka can go back to Japan and play for less than what the Red Sox want to pay him. Does the system suck? Sure it does. But trying to act like Matsuzaka is getting cheated is ridiculous. It looks like Boston made a fair offer considering they have no competition for his services.

 

I completely agree. Boras is an idiot for thinking a non-FA who has never pitched in the MLB should get $15 million. $8 million is more than fair considering the circumstances.

 

Boras isn't an idiot yet. He will be if he lets that offer get in the way of signing his client to the Sox. Heck, if he does get Boston to agree to the 15-per deal, he's a genius, right, (even if a smarmy one)?

[VanceJergins]

I don't think there's any blame on Boston at all. The reason a team is willing to pony up so much in a posting fee is because they have exclusive rights. Boras is trying to negotiate a contract as if Matsuzaka is a FA. He's not. He's like a first year arby guy. He has the choice of playing for what the team is offering or not at all. The only difference here is that Matsuzaka can go back to Japan and play for less than what the Red Sox want to pay him. Does the system suck? Sure it does. But trying to act like Matsuzaka is getting cheated is ridiculous. It looks like Boston made a fair offer considering they have no competition for his services.

 

I completely agree. Boras is an idiot for thinking a non-FA who has never pitched in the MLB should get $15 million. $8 million is more than fair considering the circumstances.

 

Boras isn't an idiot yet. He will be if he lets that offer get in the way of signing his client to the Sox. Heck, if he does get Boston to agree to the 15-per deal, he's a genius, right, (even if a smarmy one)?

 

Yeah, thats true. I agree that he's only an idiot if he refuses to drop his $15 m demand. If he refuses to accept anything less than 10m, I'd still say he's an idiot.

[Warren Brusstar]

He'll sign.

 

Boras knows that the only possible leverage that he has here is to have Boston feeling pressure from its fans and the commissioner's office and the Seibu Lions to get something done. I expect that they'll move up as the deadline approaches.

 

Of course, Boras isn't stupid. He knows that he's not going to get $15 million without any leverage. He's just trying to maximize Matsuzaka's total package by running up against the deadline. Indeed, that's his job.

[CubFanPhilly]

He'll sign.

 

Boras knows that the only possible leverage that he has here is to have Boston feeling pressure from its fans and the commissioner's office and the Seibu Lions to get something done. I expect that they'll move up as the deadline approaches.

 

Of course, Boras isn't stupid. He knows that he's not going to get $15 million without any leverage. He's just trying to maximize Matsuzaka's total package by running up against the deadline. Indeed, that's his job.

 

I agree. He'll sign. Boras doesn't want to walk away from a big commission, Seibu wants the posting fee, and Boston is going to feel some heat from the league and their fans.

 

My guess is 4/$48 mil. with FA rights after the contract.

[TheDude]

I don't think there's any blame on Boston at all. The reason a team is willing to pony up so much in a posting fee is because they have exclusive rights. Boras is trying to negotiate a contract as if Matsuzaka is a FA. He's not. He's like a first year arby guy. He has the choice of playing for what the team is offering or not at all. The only difference here is that Matsuzaka can go back to Japan and play for less than what the Red Sox want to pay him. Does the system suck? Sure it does. But trying to act like Matsuzaka is getting cheated is ridiculous. It looks like Boston made a fair offer considering they have no competition for his services.

 

I completely agree. Boras is an idiot for thinking a non-FA who has never pitched in the MLB should get $15 million. $8 million is more than fair considering the circumstances.

 

I agree here. Blaming Boton is nonsensical. Boras is a fool for trying to get Oswalt money for a pitcher that has never thrown a pitch in MLB.

 

I hate Boras so much.

[cbbryan]

There's a moral consequence for Mats not to sign as well. From what I have read, it would be somewhat of a scarlet letter on him in Japan if he doesn't sign.

 

Maybe someone with more knowledge of the Japanese culture can add to this.

[Careless]

I don't think there's any blame on Boston at all. The reason a team is willing to pony up so much in a posting fee is because they have exclusive rights. Boras is trying to negotiate a contract as if Matsuzaka is a FA. He's not. He's like a first year arby guy. He has the choice of playing for what the team is offering or not at all. The only difference here is that Matsuzaka can go back to Japan and play for less than what the Red Sox want to pay him. Does the system suck? Sure it does. But trying to act like Matsuzaka is getting cheated is ridiculous. It looks like Boston made a fair offer considering they have no competition for his services.

 

i disagree. this is very different from an arbitration player, because matsuzaka has the option of not playing for the team and eventually playing in major league baseball for another team. an arbitration-eligible player does not. boston is using their massive bid for his rights to try to guilt matsuzaka/boras into accepting their lowball offer, which is way below what matsuzaka is actually worth.

 

i do agree that the system is very, very broken. and it looks like boston is exploiting it to their advantage, just like every other "loophole" they can find. every day, this team finds more and more ways for me to think they are worse for baseball than the yankees

An arbitration player can't say "no" and go play in an unaffilliated league?

[cbbryan]

I don't think there's any blame on Boston at all. The reason a team is willing to pony up so much in a posting fee is because they have exclusive rights. Boras is trying to negotiate a contract as if Matsuzaka is a FA. He's not. He's like a first year arby guy. He has the choice of playing for what the team is offering or not at all. The only difference here is that Matsuzaka can go back to Japan and play for less than what the Red Sox want to pay him. Does the system suck? Sure it does. But trying to act like Matsuzaka is getting cheated is ridiculous. It looks like Boston made a fair offer considering they have no competition for his services.

 

i disagree. this is very different from an arbitration player, because matsuzaka has the option of not playing for the team and eventually playing in major league baseball for another team. an arbitration-eligible player does not. boston is using their massive bid for his rights to try to guilt matsuzaka/boras into accepting their lowball offer, which is way below what matsuzaka is actually worth.

 

i do agree that the system is very, very broken. and it looks like boston is exploiting it to their advantage, just like every other "loophole" they can find. every day, this team finds more and more ways for me to think they are worse for baseball than the yankees

An arbitration player can't say "no" and go play in an unaffilliated league?

 

I believe they can, just like a draftee that doesn't want to sign can, I believe. Didn't J.D. Drew do something like this?

[ltb]

I don't think there's any blame on Boston at all. The reason a team is willing to pony up so much in a posting fee is because they have exclusive rights. Boras is trying to negotiate a contract as if Matsuzaka is a FA. He's not. He's like a first year arby guy. He has the choice of playing for what the team is offering or not at all. The only difference here is that Matsuzaka can go back to Japan and play for less than what the Red Sox want to pay him. Does the system suck? Sure it does. But trying to act like Matsuzaka is getting cheated is ridiculous. It looks like Boston made a fair offer considering they have no competition for his services.

 

i disagree. this is very different from an arbitration player, because matsuzaka has the option of not playing for the team and eventually playing in major league baseball for another team. an arbitration-eligible player does not. boston is using their massive bid for his rights to try to guilt matsuzaka/boras into accepting their lowball offer, which is way below what matsuzaka is actually worth.

 

i do agree that the system is very, very broken. and it looks like boston is exploiting it to their advantage, just like every other "loophole" they can find. every day, this team finds more and more ways for me to think they are worse for baseball than the yankees

An arbitration player can't say "no" and go play in an unaffilliated league?

 

sure, they can go play in the northern league or something. good luck ever playing in major league baseball again, though. you're under the control of the team that signs you for six years unless they non-tender you. if you're tendered a contract (whether it be under the reserve clause during your first 3 seasons, or arbitration in your last 3), but then refuse to play, the team could put you on the suspended list (i'm not sure if it's the exact name, but soriano was threatened with being put on it last year before agreeing to play LF) and you would not accrue major league playing time. basically, last year, soriano was either going to play LF, or he would not play major league baseball in 2006 (and he would not accrue enough service time to become a free agent at the end of the season, either).

 

also, j.d. drew has absolutely nothing to do with this. he played in the northern league because he held out and didn't sign a contract - he was not arbitration eligible.

[questionmarkgrace]

If he doesn't sign Boras probably wont be his agent anymore.

[SCCubbieFAN]

Mats is where he is b/c his team, Seibu, posted him. Had the team not done that, he would be pitching for Seibu at least one more year (if Seibu posts him next year) and possibly 2 more yrs at a salary around $2-3mil/yr before he is eligible to sign with a ML team as a FA. So in a sense Mats owes Seibu the favor of signing so Seibu gets the posting fee. As Vance stated, he is not a FA, he/his agent are not bidding against other teams, and Boston did pay an exorbitant amount for the right to negotiate for his services exclusively. He has never pitched a single ML inning, and if he does not sign and goes back to Japan for another yr or 2 and gets a severe or career ending injury or his skills decline, he may never throw a ML pitch. And, Boras will lose the commission. Lastly, not signing means Boston is off the hook for the posting fee. In this negotiation, Boston is clearly in the driver's seat.

[Guest]

Mats is where he is b/c his team, Seibu, posted him. Had the team not done that, he would be pitching for Seibu at least one more year (if Seibu posts him next year) and possibly 2 more yrs at a salary around $2-3mil/yr before he is eligible to sign with a ML team as a FA. So in a sense Mats owes Seibu the favor of signing so Seibu gets the posting fee. As Vance stated, he is not a FA, he/his agent are not bidding against other teams, and Boston did pay an exorbitant amount for the right to negotiate for his services exclusively. He has never pitched a single ML inning, and if he does not sign and goes back to Japan for another yr or 2 and gets a severe or career ending injury or his skills decline, he may never throw a ML pitch. And, Boras will lose the commission. Lastly, not signing means Boston is off the hook for the posting fee. In this negotiation, Boston is clearly in the driver's seat.

I don't know that's completely true, as it probably doesn't make financial sense for Matsuzaka to lock himself into the Red Sox for 5-6 years at "just" $7-$8 mililon per. (Putting aside the bird in the hand argument about potential injuries, of course.) If he takes the deal he'll make $35-$40 million over the next several years. If he decides to go back to Japan he won't make nearly as much over the next two years -- probably only $5-6 million or so -- but after that he becomes an unrestricted free agent. All he has to do is sign a Schmidt-like contract at that point for 3/$45 and he'd make $10-15 million more than if he'd taken the Red Sox current offer. (And, assuming he stays healthy, the odds are pretty high that he'd get a contract offer significantly higher than the one Schmidt got this year.)

 

If Matsuzaka is looking to maximize his payday and he thinks he can stay healthy/effective for at least the next two years, it makes perfect sense for him to turn down the Red Sox if all they are offering is $7-$8 million over a lengthy contract. If they bump that rate up to $10 million or so, or are willing to grant him FA status after 3-4 years the offer starts to become far more compelling.

[shnsajax]

I think for him the best thing to do would be to go back and play 2 more years in Japan. I dont think he saw the senerio where someone would pay 51 mil to negotiate. If that had not happened he'd have gotten a much more lucrative offer.

Its my opinion that Boston never intended to sign him but they are trying to make it look like they wanted to by low balling him. In my opinion the amount they are offering is about 4 mil a year off what he should get in this market. I think at the very least you can expect numbers better than Lilly's or Meche's and I think hes much much better than that.

Go back to Japan hit the free agent market in a couple years, thats what I'd do.

 

How much money should Ryan Howard make next season? MLB has a system in place, just cause the guy plays in another country doesn't mean the rules should not apply to him. If he wants to come play in the US that these same rules will apply to him. The problem is that he has very little leverage right now, and for the most part no rights.

 

Imagine if he got the money he wanted and this was the year that Prior and Teixeira came out of the draft. What kind of money would they be demanding because of what Matsuzaka got.

[Mephistopheles]

Dominating the Japanese Leagues and dominating the Pac 10 or ACC are two entirely different things.

[Handlebar McSkullet]

Dominating the Japanese Leagues and dominating the Pac 10 or ACC are two entirely different things.

 

Maybe dominating the WAC then?

[Guest]

I think for him the best thing to do would be to go back and play 2 more years in Japan. I dont think he saw the senerio where someone would pay 51 mil to negotiate. If that had not happened he'd have gotten a much more lucrative offer.

Its my opinion that Boston never intended to sign him but they are trying to make it look like they wanted to by low balling him. In my opinion the amount they are offering is about 4 mil a year off what he should get in this market. I think at the very least you can expect numbers better than Lilly's or Meche's and I think hes much much better than that.

Go back to Japan hit the free agent market in a couple years, thats what I'd do.

 

How much money should Ryan Howard make next season? MLB has a system in place, just cause the guy plays in another country doesn't mean the rules should not apply to him. If he wants to come play in the US that these same rules will apply to him. The problem is that he has very little leverage right now, and for the most part no rights.

 

Imagine if he got the money he wanted and this was the year that Prior and Teixeira came out of the draft. What kind of money would they be demanding because of what Matsuzaka got.

Once again, Matsuzaka has more leverage than a player in arbitration. There's a very good chance that Matsuzaka could turn down the deal, spend two more years in Japan, and then come to the majors in 2008 on a fat FA deal and make far more money than if he singed on the dotted line for the Red Sox. A player in arbitration has far fewer options; sign for whatever your team offers you, ask an arbitration panel to tell you what you are worth, or don't play at all.

[Rob]

Is Matsuzaka some sort of Japanese cipher for Matt Harrington?

[SCCubbieFAN]

Mats is where he is b/c his team, Seibu, posted him. Had the team not done that, he would be pitching for Seibu at least one more year (if Seibu posts him next year) and possibly 2 more yrs at a salary around $2-3mil/yr before he is eligible to sign with a ML team as a FA. So in a sense Mats owes Seibu the favor of signing so Seibu gets the posting fee. As Vance stated, he is not a FA, he/his agent are not bidding against other teams, and Boston did pay an exorbitant amount for the right to negotiate for his services exclusively. He has never pitched a single ML inning, and if he does not sign and goes back to Japan for another yr or 2 and gets a severe or career ending injury or his skills decline, he may never throw a ML pitch. And, Boras will lose the commission. Lastly, not signing means Boston is off the hook for the posting fee. In this negotiation, Boston is clearly in the driver's seat.

I don't know that's completely true, as it probably doesn't make financial sense for Matsuzaka to lock himself into the Red Sox for 5-6 years at "just" $7-$8 mililon per. (Putting aside the bird in the hand argument about potential injuries, of course.) If he takes the deal he'll make $35-$40 million over the next several years. If he decides to go back to Japan he won't make nearly as much over the next two years -- probably only $5-6 million or so -- but after that he becomes an unrestricted free agent. All he has to do is sign a Schmidt-like contract at that point for 3/$45 and he'd make $10-15 million more than if he'd taken the Red Sox current offer. (And, assuming he stays healthy, the odds are pretty high that he'd get a contract offer significantly higher than the one Schmidt got this year.)

 

If Matsuzaka is looking to maximize his payday and he thinks he can stay healthy/effective for at least the next two years, it makes perfect sense for him to turn down the Red Sox if all they are offering is $7-$8 million over a lengthy contract. If they bump that rate up to $10 million or so, or are willing to grant him FA status after 3-4 years the offer starts to become far more compelling.

 

I agree with what you are saying BK. My comment was based entirely on the situation as it stands now. 2 yrs from now if Mats stays healthy and continues to perform like he has, he will most likely get a much better deal than the $7-8 mil offer Boston is offering.

[radarluv1]

when is the deadline?

i imagine if a deal isnt reached, the whole posting process will be reevaluated.

[UMFan83]

when is the deadline?

i imagine if a deal isnt reached, the whole posting process will be reevaluated.

 

Deadline is Thursday, but they are saying that they need him to sign by Tuesday so they can conduct a physical and finalize the contract before its official.

[neely crenshaw]

keep this in kind...they only have to pay the fee..if they sign. that is something i didn't know. so they lose nothing if they don't sign him...however, they did keep the yankees from being able to sign him by outbidding them. this could very well be a ploy to keep him away from new york.

[YearofDaCubs]

keep this in kind...they only have to pay the fee..if they sign. that is something i didn't know. so they lose nothing if they don't sign him...however, they did keep the yankees from being able to sign him by outbidding them. this could very well be a ploy to keep him away from new york.

And if true this is exactly why the posting process should be reevaluated IMO.

[NorthsideAvenger]

keep this in kind...they only have to pay the fee..if they sign. that is something i didn't know. so they lose nothing if they don't sign him...however, they did keep the yankees from being able to sign him by outbidding them. this could very well be a ploy to keep him away from new york.

 

And if MLB finds that Boston did not negotiate in "Good faith" with Boras/Mats, then they would allow the 2nd highest bid to negotiate with Mats. Personally, if MLB does find that Boston only made the bid to keep Mats away from NYY(as much as I dislke the Yanks), then baseball should santioned Boston, by banning Boston from bidding on a Japanese import for atleast 3 yrs. Boston has to sign Mats, or prove they bid on him, not out of bitterness towards NYY, but because he was an upgrade over what they got.

[daske17]

And if MLB finds that Boston did not negotiate in "Good faith" with Boras/Mats, then they would allow the 2nd highest bid to negotiate with Mats. Personally, if MLB does find that Boston only made the bid to keep Mats away from NYY(as much as I dislke the Yanks), then baseball should santioned Boston, by banning Boston from bidding on a Japanese import for atleast 3 yrs. Boston has to sign Mats, or prove they bid on him, not out of bitterness towards NYY, but because he was an upgrade over what they got.

 

I think finding the Red Sox didn't "negotiate in good faith" would be hard to prove. Boras has a history of wanting outrageous sums for his clients and the Red Sox have already ponied up $51 million to negotiate. If the reports of offering $8 million for five years are true, the total impact on the Red Sox budget could be amortized at $12 per year. Financially, that seems like negotiating in good faith to me.

 

They bid on an unknown product in the MLB and shouldn't be expected to shell out $16-$18 million per year above the posting fee simply because some agent says so.