SI and ESPN report Matsuzaka signs for 6/52

[daske17]

Found this quote in the NY Times interesting:

 

NY Times[/url]"]"One thing is clear, D-Mat will some day be a major league player," Boras said. "We have further negotiating to do. The deadline's not here in five minutes. The parties do understand what the player's value is in the free agent system."

 

Some Japanese reporters said it would be awkward for Matsuzaka if he had to return to Japan. Matsuzaka has already said good-bye to his country and the financially-strapped Lions were expecting a significant sum after posting him.

 

"Nobody in Japan is expecting him to come back because the negotiations broke down," said Yasuko Yanagita, a reporter for the Hochi Shimbun. "I don't think this is only for the Japanese culture. But, in Japan, someone asking for 'Money, money, money,' does not leave a good impression."

 

Boras has absolutely no leverage in this deal, and I hope the Red Sox hold out. As long as the Red Sox are offering a decent deal I don't have any problem with them telling Matz to go back to Japan and wait 'til next year.

 

There's no way Matz should be getting $100 million when he was only making $4.5 million last year, and the Red Sox have already forked out $51 million just to talk to the guy. The posting system has a lot of flaws, but Boras is the biggest problem in this scenario.

 

This is a side tangent that really is beginning to bug me. When did everyone in baseball start getting called by partial names? D-Lee A-Ram, A-Rod, I-Rod, K-Rod, D-Mat. . . is it so hard to say a person's full or even just last name?

[goonys evil twin]

Found this quote in the NY Times interesting:

 

NY Times[/url]"]"One thing is clear, D-Mat will some day be a major league player," Boras said. "We have further negotiating to do. The deadline's not here in five minutes. The parties do understand what the player's value is in the free agent system."

 

Some Japanese reporters said it would be awkward for Matsuzaka if he had to return to Japan. Matsuzaka has already said good-bye to his country and the financially-strapped Lions were expecting a significant sum after posting him.

 

"Nobody in Japan is expecting him to come back because the negotiations broke down," said Yasuko Yanagita, a reporter for the Hochi Shimbun. "I don't think this is only for the Japanese culture. But, in Japan, someone asking for 'Money, money, money,' does not leave a good impression."

 

Boras has absolutely no leverage in this deal, and I hope the Red Sox hold out. As long as the Red Sox are offering a decent deal I don't have any problem with them telling Matz to go back to Japan and wait 'til next year.

 

There's no way Matz should be getting $100 million when he was only making $4.5 million last year, and the Red Sox have already forked out $51 million just to talk to the guy. The posting system has a lot of flaws, but Boras is the biggest problem in this scenario.

 

This is a side tangent that really is beginning to bug me. When did everyone in baseball start getting called by partial names? D-Lee A-Ram, A-Rod, I-Rod, K-Rod, D-Mat. . . is it so hard to say a person's full or even just last name?

 

I'm not sure D-17.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

He should be getting 10-12 million a year if not he should go back to Japan for a couple more seasons then hit the free agent market for a huge payday. I dont blame Daisuke or Boras I blame Boston for low balling. Id just back my bags and go back to Japan for a couple more years. I dont think Boston ever intended to sign him anyway.

 

The Red Sox paid so they would have exclusive negotiating rights. Combining that with his lack of MLB service time, and there's no reason why he should make 10-12 million per year. Look at Ichiro for an example in the posting system, or any other pre-free agency player's contract. Why should the Red Sox pay market value when they already paid to exclusively negotiate?

[Backtobanks]

It's really a shame that the Cubs can't trade for the right to sign him.

 

And we could end up parting with some good talent just to have Boras pull the same crap with us. No thanks.

 

Not that I wouldn't love to have him in the rotation, but not for the price the Red Sox had to pay.

 

Asuming we wouldn't have to pay the posting fee, we could probably sign him for a few million more per year than we're paying the likes of Lilly and Marquis. It's all hypothetical anyhow, but he would look great with Zambrano and Hill.

[E.J.]

He should be getting 10-12 million a year if not he should go back to Japan for a couple more seasons then hit the free agent market for a huge payday. I dont blame Daisuke or Boras I blame Boston for low balling. Id just back my bags and go back to Japan for a couple more years. I dont think Boston ever intended to sign him anyway.

 

The Red Sox paid so they would have exclusive negotiating rights. Combining that with his lack of MLB service time, and there's no reason why he should make 10-12 million per year. Look at Ichiro for an example in the posting system, or any other pre-free agency player's contract. Why should the Red Sox pay market value when they already paid to exclusively negotiate?

 

Exactly. Matsuzaka isn't a FA, so he shouldn't expect to get the same type of deal he would if he were a FA. The Red Sox dished out a boat load of money to get the exclusive rights. They shouldn't have to pay top dollar on top of that. IF Matsuzaka wants top dollar he should just wait 2 years and then become a FA.

[TruffleShuffle]

They should offer $9-10M for 4-5 years and then just leave. Tell Boras to call them if they want it; otherwise, goodbye and don't forget to apologize to your client for screwing him over too.

[CuseCubFan69]

Gange just got 6 and he hasn't pitched in 2 years. I see no reason why he can't get 12 or more.

[Vinestal]

He should be getting 10-12 million a year if not he should go back to Japan for a couple more seasons then hit the free agent market for a huge payday. I dont blame Daisuke or Boras I blame Boston for low balling. Id just back my bags and go back to Japan for a couple more years. I dont think Boston ever intended to sign him anyway.

 

The Red Sox paid so they would have exclusive negotiating rights. Combining that with his lack of MLB service time, and there's no reason why he should make 10-12 million per year. Look at Ichiro for an example in the posting system, or any other pre-free agency player's contract. Why should the Red Sox pay market value when they already paid to exclusively negotiate?

 

Exactly. Matsuzaka isn't a FA, so he shouldn't expect to get the same type of deal he would if he were a FA. The Red Sox dished out a boat load of money to get the exclusive rights. They shouldn't have to pay top dollar on top of that. IF Matsuzaka wants top dollar he should just wait 2 years and then become a FA.

 

Yes he should wait 2 years. Why should he sign a 6 year contract at a rate that is much less than he could get if he was a free agent. Thats 4 years of his services that Boston gets at a hugely dicounted rate. He should expect to sell his FA rights away basicly? No way.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Gange just got 6 and he hasn't pitched in 2 years. I see no reason why he can't get 12 or more.

 

Because Gagne has pitched in MLB to earn Free Agency. Daisuke has not. Frankly, they're lucky they get to negotiate a contract that's as good as they've been offered, instead of 3 years of < 1M indentured servitude like every other player.

[Cubzfan64]

As far as what Matsuzaka is worth right now, this is how I look at it...

 

Where does Japanese baseball fit talentwise as far as comparisons with MLB? I don't know the answer, but I'm guessing it's somewhere between AAA and the big leagues.

 

Based on that, I don't see any valid argument that puts his value at what any of the starting pitchers got on the FA market this year. I think he should have to prove himself in the big leagues before he's allowed to cash in big.

 

My guess is the big sticking point in the contract negotiations with Boras all revolve around contract length. For the amount of $ Boston shelled out just to have negotiating rights, they will want to tie him up for a reasonable sum of money ($6-8mil/year) for 5 years I'm guessing. Boras on the other hand is probably pushing for $10-12mil/year for 2-3 years in the hopes that if Matsuzaka achieves or exceeds expectations, he'll be in for a HUGE raise at the end of the contract when he becomes a FA.

 

For those of you saying he should pack his bags and go back to Japan for another year or two if he doesn't get $10+mil per year, you just aren't thinking through every issue.

 

1) Japan IS a different culture and it will be embarrasing for him to have to return.

 

2) It would be disrespectful to his old team if he basically stripped them of the $51 million they won by what would be perceived as his own greed.

 

3) As young as he is (28?), my understanding is that he's thrown a TON of innings and pitches - everyone is human and all pitchers have a limited number of throws in their arms - who's to say 2 more years of pitching in Japan and being 30 would make him more valuable than he is now- not to mention the chance of injury during that time.

 

I think careerwise, it's in Matsuzaka's best interest to sign with Boston - get as much money as he can for the shortest length of time possible, which imho is what Boras is realistically looking for and will sweat every bloody nickel out of Boston to get. In the end he will sign and play next year, and if he does well during the contract you can absolutely count on the fact that he will make tons of $$ in promotional sales both her and in Japan and when the contract is up and he does become a FA, he'll get his shot at that HUGE contract.

[Vinestal]

Gange just got 6 and he hasn't pitched in 2 years. I see no reason why he can't get 12 or more.

 

Because Gagne has pitched in MLB to earn Free Agency. Daisuke has not. Frankly, they're lucky they get to negotiate a contract that's as good as they've been offered, instead of 3 years of < 1M indentured servitude like every other player.

 

*sigh* he's been serving his "years of indentured servitude" in Japan. Those guys have it much worse of in terms of players rights and money than the US players do. In 2 years he would have full free agent rights there as well as here. Im sure Boston wants alot more than 2 years, why should Mats sign a long term contract for below free agent market prices when he has the option of waiting 2 more years and getting paid market value?

[goonys evil twin]

Gange just got 6 and he hasn't pitched in 2 years. I see no reason why he can't get 12 or more.

 

Because Gagne has pitched in MLB to earn Free Agency. Daisuke has not. Frankly, they're lucky they get to negotiate a contract that's as good as they've been offered, instead of 3 years of < 1M indentured servitude like every other player.

 

*sigh* he's been serving his "years of indentured servitude" in Japan. Those guys have it much worse of in terms of players rights and money than the US players do. In 2 years he would have full free agent rights there as well as here. Im sure Boston wants alot more than 2 years, why should Mats sign a long term contract for below free agent market prices when he has the option of waiting 2 more years and getting paid market value?

 

Why? Because it's guaranteed money right now. Waiting 2 years isn't always wise, especially for pitchers.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Gange just got 6 and he hasn't pitched in 2 years. I see no reason why he can't get 12 or more.

 

Because Gagne has pitched in MLB to earn Free Agency. Daisuke has not. Frankly, they're lucky they get to negotiate a contract that's as good as they've been offered, instead of 3 years of < 1M indentured servitude like every other player.

 

*sigh* he's been serving his "years of indentured servitude" in Japan. Those guys have it much worse of in terms of players rights and money than the US players do. In 2 years he would have full free agent rights there as well as here. Im sure Boston wants alot more than 2 years, why should Mats sign a long term contract for below free agent market prices when he has the option of waiting 2 more years and getting paid market value?

 

If Mats wants market value more than playing in MLB as soon as possible, then he shouldn't have asked to be posted and waited out the two years until Free Agency.

[Cubzfan64]

Gotta love this quote from Boras...

 

"In Japan, he's known as the national treasure," Boras told some three dozen media representatives -- nearly all representing Japanese outlets. "Here, he will be known as Fort Knox."

 

What a pompous ass!!! Of course if I were looking for the most $ possible and didn't give a darn about anything else, he's the guy I'd want on my side as well - I just don't think I could shake his hand without wearing nitrile gloves and I'd be wearing my crucifix in a visible spot :twisted:

[Vinestal]

Gange just got 6 and he hasn't pitched in 2 years. I see no reason why he can't get 12 or more.

 

Because Gagne has pitched in MLB to earn Free Agency. Daisuke has not. Frankly, they're lucky they get to negotiate a contract that's as good as they've been offered, instead of 3 years of < 1M indentured servitude like every other player.

 

*sigh* he's been serving his "years of indentured servitude" in Japan. Those guys have it much worse of in terms of players rights and money than the US players do. In 2 years he would have full free agent rights there as well as here. Im sure Boston wants alot more than 2 years, why should Mats sign a long term contract for below free agent market prices when he has the option of waiting 2 more years and getting paid market value?

 

If Mats wants market value more than playing in MLB as soon as possible, then he shouldn't have asked to be posted and waited out the two years until Free Agency.

 

I disagree, but I give up trying to argue the point.

[Mark Priors Calves]

He should be getting 10-12 million a year if not he should go back to Japan for a couple more seasons then hit the free agent market for a huge payday. I dont blame Daisuke or Boras I blame Boston for low balling. Id just back my bags and go back to Japan for a couple more years. I dont think Boston ever intended to sign him anyway.

 

The Red Sox paid so they would have exclusive negotiating rights. Combining that with his lack of MLB service time, and there's no reason why he should make 10-12 million per year. Look at Ichiro for an example in the posting system, or any other pre-free agency player's contract. Why should the Red Sox pay market value when they already paid to exclusively negotiate?

 

Exactly. Matsuzaka isn't a FA, so he shouldn't expect to get the same type of deal he would if he were a FA. The Red Sox dished out a boat load of money to get the exclusive rights. They shouldn't have to pay top dollar on top of that. IF Matsuzaka wants top dollar he should just wait 2 years and then become a FA.

 

Did you change your name?

[E.J.]

He should be getting 10-12 million a year if not he should go back to Japan for a couple more seasons then hit the free agent market for a huge payday. I dont blame Daisuke or Boras I blame Boston for low balling. Id just back my bags and go back to Japan for a couple more years. I dont think Boston ever intended to sign him anyway.

 

The Red Sox paid so they would have exclusive negotiating rights. Combining that with his lack of MLB service time, and there's no reason why he should make 10-12 million per year. Look at Ichiro for an example in the posting system, or any other pre-free agency player's contract. Why should the Red Sox pay market value when they already paid to exclusively negotiate?

 

Exactly. Matsuzaka isn't a FA, so he shouldn't expect to get the same type of deal he would if he were a FA. The Red Sox dished out a boat load of money to get the exclusive rights. They shouldn't have to pay top dollar on top of that. IF Matsuzaka wants top dollar he should just wait 2 years and then become a FA.

 

Did you change your name?

 

Yeah. I was tired of WilliSC48. I asked Tim and he hooked me up.

[Derwood]

if Lilly/Meche are worth $10-$11 million per year, Matsuzaka is worth more than $8 mil.

 

We'll see who blinks first. Is Boras willing to wait 2 years to break the bank for DM when he's a free agent?

[cubfan]

Gange just got 6 and he hasn't pitched in 2 years. I see no reason why he can't get 12 or more.

 

Because Gagne has pitched in MLB to earn Free Agency. Daisuke has not. Frankly, they're lucky they get to negotiate a contract that's as good as they've been offered, instead of 3 years of < 1M indentured servitude like every other player.

 

*sigh* he's been serving his "years of indentured servitude" in Japan. Those guys have it much worse of in terms of players rights and money than the US players do. In 2 years he would have full free agent rights there as well as here. Im sure Boston wants alot more than 2 years, why should Mats sign a long term contract for below free agent market prices when he has the option of waiting 2 more years and getting paid market value?

 

In MLB eyes he is no different than someone drafted out of High School or college. He has zero MLB or minor league experience. Mark Prior was probably viewed as just as valuable as Daisuke when he came out of college but he was not able to demand 12+ mill a year. If he did he would have ended up in an independent league.

Also, I think in life you normally do not pay what something is worth, you pay what you have to to get it. A tickle me Elmo doll does not cost that much to make but people may pay a lot for one since so many other people want it and if they don't, they will be left out. Right now Boston is the only customer in the store. Fair or not, that is the way it is and with out other competition they are in a very strong negotiating position.

[cubweiser03]

From ESPN.com this morning...

The sides apparently are $3 million-per-year apart. Sources have told the Boston Herald that the Red Sox's latest offer to the pitcher is six years for $8 million a year. Matsuzaka's camp, according to the Herald, has counter-offered with an $11 million request for six years.

As Boston general manager Theo Epstein left Boras' office late Tuesday night, he said it's "up to Matsuzaka" whether there would be further talks.

 

Boras later states its up to Mats as well. So it looks like this is Boston's final offer and we are at the take it or leave it point. Stay tuned.

[E.J.]

Rotoworld:

 

Daisuke Matsuzaka-S-Red Sox Dec. 13 - 9:04 am et

 

 

The Boston Herald reports that the Red Sox's latest offer to Daisuke Matsuzaka is for six years and a total of $48 million, while Matsuzaka is asking for $66 million over six years.

If they're truly that close and can both agree on the deal's length, it seems likely that a deal can get done before Thursday's deadline. However, indications are that if Matsuzaka isn't on a plane back to Boston to take his physical by Wednesday afternoon, no deal will get done. We'll see.

Source: Boston Herald

 

That's a pretty big gap considering Matsuzaka needs to be signed today so the Red Sox can get him back to Boston to get a physical before tommorow's deadline. I was on the Red Sox side before, but if that's their offer, then they are definitely lowballing Matsuzaka. 6 years and $66 million sounds about right for Matsuzaka.

[TheDude]

Rotoworld:

 

Daisuke Matsuzaka-S-Red Sox Dec. 13 - 9:04 am et

 

 

The Boston Herald reports that the Red Sox's latest offer to Daisuke Matsuzaka is for six years and a total of $48 million, while Matsuzaka is asking for $66 million over six years.

If they're truly that close and can both agree on the deal's length, it seems likely that a deal can get done before Thursday's deadline. However, indications are that if Matsuzaka isn't on a plane back to Boston to take his physical by Wednesday afternoon, no deal will get done. We'll see.

Source: Boston Herald

 

That's a pretty big gap considering Matsuzaka needs to be signed today so the Red Sox can get him back to Boston to get a physical before tommorow's deadline. I was on the Red Sox side before, but if that's their offer, then they are definitely lowballing Matsuzaka. 6 years and $66 million sounds about right for Matsuzaka.

 

I don't think that's a big gap considering yesterday Boras was firm on 100+ million.

[goonys evil twin]

Rotoworld:

 

Daisuke Matsuzaka-S-Red Sox Dec. 13 - 9:04 am et

 

 

The Boston Herald reports that the Red Sox's latest offer to Daisuke Matsuzaka is for six years and a total of $48 million, while Matsuzaka is asking for $66 million over six years.

If they're truly that close and can both agree on the deal's length, it seems likely that a deal can get done before Thursday's deadline. However, indications are that if Matsuzaka isn't on a plane back to Boston to take his physical by Wednesday afternoon, no deal will get done. We'll see.

Source: Boston Herald

 

That's a pretty big gap considering Matsuzaka needs to be signed today so the Red Sox can get him back to Boston to get a physical before tommorow's deadline. I was on the Red Sox side before, but if that's their offer, then they are definitely lowballing Matsuzaka. 6 years and $66 million sounds about right for Matsuzaka.

 

I don't think that's a big gap considering yesterday Boras was firm on 100+ million.

 

Yeah, no kidding. 6/66 is quite a bit different from 100. 6/58 might be a good meeting point. That blows away what other Japanese players got in their first year. I'm actually surprised Boras is thinking about going 6 years, I figured he'd want to keep it shorter and include a provision that Boston can't offer arbitration, making him a free agent when the deal is done.

[TheDude]

I'm actually surprised Boras is thinking about going 6 years, I figured he'd want to keep it shorter and include a provision that Boston can't offer arbitration, making him a free agent when the deal is done.

 

Maybe Matsuzaka finally stopped being a passenger on his own ride and told Boras he wants to play now.

[goonys evil twin]

I'm actually surprised Boras is thinking about going 6 years, I figured he'd want to keep it shorter and include a provision that Boston can't offer arbitration, making him a free agent when the deal is done.

 

Maybe Matsuzaka finally stopped being a passenger on his own ride and told Boras he wants to play now.

 

I don't think this would be the first time a Boras client ended up signing for considerably less than some insane number that Boras throws out at some point in negotiations. He definitely takes the "start as high as possible" approach to negotiations.