SI and ESPN report Matsuzaka signs for 6/52

[MembersOnlyJacket]

It's looking like a deal with the Red Sox is dead and the scapegoat, as usual, is Scott Boras:

 

Per Boston Herald, Matsuzaka Talks Break Down

[Jazz]

So what happens if the talks never go anywhere and miss the deadline? Does the nextt highest bid get a chance? (By the way, it disgusts me that Boras wants 15 for 5 years for Daisuke, even though he'll probably get it.

[ltb]

this is boston's fault. they spent that massive amount on the posting fee, and then expected to get matsuzaka at a discount because they spent $51 million to negotiate with him. they knew from the start that not a cent of that went to matsuzaka and that boras was his agent, so they would not be getting any sort of discount on his contract. this smells even more like boston was just trying to block the yankees from getting his rights.

[ltb]

So what happens if the talks never go anywhere and miss the deadline? Does the nextt highest bid get a chance? (By the way, it disgusts me that Boras wants 15 for 5 years for Daisuke, even though he'll probably get it.

 

matsuzaka goes back to japan, and from what i understand, can be posted again next year (but teams will not be that interested because they can have him as a free agent one year later).

[RammyFanny]

Can't they sign and trade him to someone? Or am I wrong.

[David]

this smells even more like boston was just trying to block the yankees from getting his rights.

 

Exactly. It's not their fault. That would imply that this was a mistake or accidental. This was their plan all along. They'd sign him if by some off-chance he took a very reasonable deal, but in reality their intent was just to keep the Yanks from getting him.

[David]

Can't they sign and trade him to someone? Or am I wrong.

 

I'm pretty sure they'd have to wait until at least mid-season (sometime in May, IIRC) to be able to trade him. I know this rule applies to free agents, not sure if Matsuzaka's case is treated differently since he isn't technically a free agent. I would guess that he's treated like any other FA with regard to this rule, though.

Edited December 10, 2006 by David

[Balsa]

What a stupid way to do the posting anyway. There should be a minimum posting fee, and then all teams who meet it should be able to make offers.

[ltb]

Can't they sign and trade him to someone? Or am I wrong.

 

sign-and-trades are forbidden in MLB. he could be signed and then traded after june (15th, i believe), but that wouldn't be something boston would be interested in, i'd think.

 

i believe they can trade the rights to negotiate with him (which is pointless, now, considering the deadline is thursday), but they'd want a lot in return if they're spending $51.1 million.

[cubweiser03]

Boston's $7M-$8M isnt reasonable for him. Not in this market. Boston could end up looking really bad in this if they dont up the deal to at least $12M or $13M. They are low balling the hell out of Matz. I dont see why he would sign the deal boston is talking about. He's going to make like $2-3M in Japan this year i think. He does that for another year, the posting fee will go down since it only 'buys' you one year not 2 and then he gets a more lucrative deal next year. Seibu doenst make as much next year but so what.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I don't think there's any blame on Boston at all. The reason a team is willing to pony up so much in a posting fee is because they have exclusive rights. Boras is trying to negotiate a contract as if Matsuzaka is a FA. He's not. He's like a first year arby guy. He has the choice of playing for what the team is offering or not at all. The only difference here is that Matsuzaka can go back to Japan and play for less than what the Red Sox want to pay him. Does the system suck? Sure it does. But trying to act like Matsuzaka is getting cheated is ridiculous. It looks like Boston made a fair offer considering they have no competition for his services.

[tkenm356]

this smells even more like boston was just trying to block the yankees from getting his rights.

 

Exactly. It's not their fault. That would imply that this was a mistake or accidental. This was their plan all along. They'd sign him if by some off-chance he took a very reasonable deal, but in reality their intent was just to keep the Yanks from getting him.

 

I always had a feeling he wouldn't be signed. I think it's a horrible strategy plan, personally. Not so much that it stops the Yankees from getting him. I think from an ethical pint of view it's horrible. We got one of the most exciting pitching names in recent memory given the chance to come to the states and pitch in the majors in one of the largest market teams arena. But the team got greedy and wanted to play keep away. This is a guy who has had hopesand dreams of performing in the majors since he was a kid, and now he got jerked around just so the Red Sox could play a stupid game to prevent their rivals from getting him.

 

I REALLY wanted Matsuzaka to play this year. I was looking forward to it, I didn't care which team it was for. The guy got his hopes up and now they're gonna be crushed. How would you feel if your dream as to come play here and you find out that the Boston Red Sox bid $51 million for your rights first and foremost.

 

1) It'd give you great expectations that people take you seriously

2) You'd realize that you'd arrived in the majors, cause if someone wants you THAT bad, you're getting in.

 

Nope, sorry, we're gonna short change you, take it or go back to Japan. IN YOUR FACE, NEW YORK!

 

This really pisses me off, I used to have a little respect for the Red Sox, this just makes me completely hate them. I really hope the Sox make me eat my words and sign him before his deadline is up, he doesn't deserve to be shut out like this. God knows what it could do to his mental state. What if some of the Japanese fans don't welcome him back with open arms. He did just try and put Japan on the backburners for bigger and better things, and a lot of them were upset he's leaving, now he's gotta walk back in like nothing happened. Sorry, I just feel for the guy. Really wish/hope he gets signed. maybe thats just me though

[ltb]

I don't think there's any blame on Boston at all. The reason a team is willing to pony up so much in a posting fee is because they have exclusive rights. Boras is trying to negotiate a contract as if Matsuzaka is a FA. He's not. He's like a first year arby guy. He has the choice of playing for what the team is offering or not at all. The only difference here is that Matsuzaka can go back to Japan and play for less than what the Red Sox want to pay him. Does the system suck? Sure it does. But trying to act like Matsuzaka is getting cheated is ridiculous. It looks like Boston made a fair offer considering they have no competition for his services.

 

i disagree. this is very different from an arbitration player, because matsuzaka has the option of not playing for the team and eventually playing in major league baseball for another team. an arbitration-eligible player does not. boston is using their massive bid for his rights to try to guilt matsuzaka/boras into accepting their lowball offer, which is way below what matsuzaka is actually worth.

 

i do agree that the system is very, very broken. and it looks like boston is exploiting it to their advantage, just like every other "loophole" they can find. every day, this team finds more and more ways for me to think they are worse for baseball than the yankees

[cubweiser03]

I don't think there's any blame on Boston at all. The reason a team is willing to pony up so much in a posting fee is because they have exclusive rights. Boras is trying to negotiate a contract as if Matsuzaka is a FA. He's not. He's like a first year arby guy. He has the choice of playing for what the team is offering or not at all. The only difference here is that Matsuzaka can go back to Japan and play for less than what the Red Sox want to pay him. Does the system suck? Sure it does. But trying to act like Matsuzaka is getting cheated is ridiculous. It looks like Boston made a fair offer considering they have no competition for his services.

 

I agree with all you are saying about fairness, but for the spirit of fair negotiations they are entering into a negotation without the real intent of signing a deal. Did they really think he would sign for $7M-$8M over 4-6 years. If they did they are dillusional.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

A 5 year 40 million dollar offer is very fair considering he's never pitched a single major league inning. The Red Sox at least made a fair offer considering they had to spend 51 million for his rights.

 

Boras just seems clueless that it isn't a free-market situation. It's not like the Red Sox low-balled him with a 2-4 million dollar contract. They're willing to give him 8 million a year guaranteed.

 

If he doesn't like that, let him play for his 2 million or a little more in Japan and hope that they don't further overwork his arm and reduce his value for when he can negotiate on the open market.

[C.C.]

What a stupid way to do the posting anyway. There should be a minimum posting fee, and then all teams who meet it should be able to make offers.

 

It's not stupid to the team that gets the money for posting a player.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I don't think there's any blame on Boston at all. The reason a team is willing to pony up so much in a posting fee is because they have exclusive rights. Boras is trying to negotiate a contract as if Matsuzaka is a FA. He's not. He's like a first year arby guy. He has the choice of playing for what the team is offering or not at all. The only difference here is that Matsuzaka can go back to Japan and play for less than what the Red Sox want to pay him. Does the system suck? Sure it does. But trying to act like Matsuzaka is getting cheated is ridiculous. It looks like Boston made a fair offer considering they have no competition for his services.

 

i disagree. this is very different from an arbitration player, because matsuzaka has the option of not playing for the team and eventually playing in major league baseball for another team. an arbitration-eligible player does not. boston is using their massive bid for his rights to try to guilt matsuzaka/boras into accepting their lowball offer, which is way below what matsuzaka is actually worth.

 

i do agree that the system is very, very broken. and it looks like boston is exploiting it to their advantage, just like every other "loophole" they can find. every day, this team finds more and more ways for me to think they are worse for baseball than the yankees

 

8 million a year is not a "low-ball" offer considering this guy has never pitched a single major league inning.

[CuseCubFan69]

A 5 year 40 million dollar offer is very fair considering he's never pitched a single major league inning. The Red Sox at least made a fair offer considering they had to spend 51 million for his rights.

 

Boras just seems clueless that it isn't a free-market situation. It's not like the Red Sox low-balled him with a 2-4 million dollar contract. They're willing to give him 8 million a year guaranteed.

 

If he doesn't like that, let him play for his 2 million or a little more in Japan and hope that they don't further overwork his arm and reduce his value for when he can negotiate on the open market.

 

Then if I were him I'd accept a 1 year 10 and go free agent after that or is he not allowed to do that?

[Guest]

I believe the rule that would govern any trade of Matsuzaka after he would sign would be the one that states any first year player cannot be traded for a full year after their initial signing. It is just like drafted players or international players signed out of Latin America.

[ltb]

A 5 year 40 million dollar offer is very fair considering he's never pitched a single major league inning. The Red Sox at least made a fair offer considering they had to spend 51 million for his rights.

 

Boras just seems clueless that it isn't a free-market situation. It's not like the Red Sox low-balled him with a 2-4 million dollar contract. They're willing to give him 8 million a year guaranteed.

 

If he doesn't like that, let him play for his 2 million or a little more in Japan and hope that they don't further overwork his arm and reduce his value for when he can negotiate on the open market.

 

no, the posting fee should not matter at all. you have to pay for those exclusive rights, and it should not factor in to your negotiations with the player. boston knew this going in, and they knew they were going to deal with boras. he's doing what's best for his client, who can probably make quite a bit more than boston's lowball offer next season.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

A 5 year 40 million dollar offer is very fair considering he's never pitched a single major league inning. The Red Sox at least made a fair offer considering they had to spend 51 million for his rights.

 

Boras just seems clueless that it isn't a free-market situation. It's not like the Red Sox low-balled him with a 2-4 million dollar contract. They're willing to give him 8 million a year guaranteed.

 

If he doesn't like that, let him play for his 2 million or a little more in Japan and hope that they don't further overwork his arm and reduce his value for when he can negotiate on the open market.

 

Then if I were him I'd accept a 1 year 10 and go free agent after that or is he allowed to do that?

 

Not unless Boston stipulates it in the contract. By MLB rules, he is Boston's property for 6 years if he signs a contract with them. They could stipulate that after the first contract (if less than 6 yrs) Boston would non-tender him, but Boston may feel that 1 year is too little to do with a 51 million dollar posting.

[ltb]

8 million a year is not a "low-ball" offer considering this guy has never pitched a single major league inning.

 

again, i disagree. matsuzaka has shown what he can do against major league-caliber talent in the WBC. when guys like gil meche are getting $11m/year, ted lilly $10m/year, and jason marquis $7m/year, offering matsuzaka money equivalent to marquis is lowballing him. hard.

[ltb]

What a stupid way to do the posting anyway. There should be a minimum posting fee, and then all teams who meet it should be able to make offers.

 

It's not stupid to the team that gets the money for posting a player.

 

pretty sure seibu is going to be upset if boston fails to reach a deal with matsuzaka. a revamped posting system would prevent something like this from happening. seibu would set a minimum bid, like a "reserve" on an auction. then, they're guaranteed to receive at least that much if a team reaches a deal with their player.

[CuseCubFan69]

A 5 year 40 million dollar offer is very fair considering he's never pitched a single major league inning. The Red Sox at least made a fair offer considering they had to spend 51 million for his rights.

 

Boras just seems clueless that it isn't a free-market situation. It's not like the Red Sox low-balled him with a 2-4 million dollar contract. They're willing to give him 8 million a year guaranteed.

 

If he doesn't like that, let him play for his 2 million or a little more in Japan and hope that they don't further overwork his arm and reduce his value for when he can negotiate on the open market.

 

Then if I were him I'd accept a 1 year 10 and go free agent after that or is he allowed to do that?

 

Not unless Boston stipulates it in the contract. By MLB rules, he is Boston's property for 6 years if he signs a contract with them. They could stipulate that after the first contract (if less than 6 yrs) Boston would non-tender him, but Boston may feel that 1 year is too little to do with a 51 million dollar posting.

 

Then he needs a big deal because he's 26 or so years old and I don't blame him for a second for trying to get 14 or more. In 5 years he'll be 31 and I don't think he'd get the big money then as he would now.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

A 5 year 40 million dollar offer is very fair considering he's never pitched a single major league inning. The Red Sox at least made a fair offer considering they had to spend 51 million for his rights.

 

Boras just seems clueless that it isn't a free-market situation. It's not like the Red Sox low-balled him with a 2-4 million dollar contract. They're willing to give him 8 million a year guaranteed.

 

If he doesn't like that, let him play for his 2 million or a little more in Japan and hope that they don't further overwork his arm and reduce his value for when he can negotiate on the open market.

 

no, the posting fee should not matter at all. you have to pay for those exclusive rights, and it should not factor in to your negotiations with the player. boston knew this going in, and they knew they were going to deal with boras. he's doing what's best for his client, who can probably make quite a bit more than boston's lowball offer next season.

 

Saying the posting fee shouldn't matter is ludicrous. It's still part of the costs Boston incurs. Just as you're trying to put this on Boston, Matsuzaka and Boras knew this was part of the process when Matsuzaka requested to be posted. If he thinks going back to Japan is best for his client, then fine. He can do that.

 

Eight million is a fair offer. Boston paid a premium to not have to negotiate on the open market.

 

The posting system is more at fault here than Matsuzaka or the Red Sox.