Cubs Sign Marquis to 3/21

[Soul]

And that having a pitching staff like that of the '06 Cardinals is not a good thing.

 

I doubt Hendry consciously wants to be overpaying for mediocrity. He doesn't. It's just that he doesn't correctly value players in terms of either performance or market value.

 

He's desperate, can't wait for top quality pitchers to become available, Schmidt wasn't leaving the West Coast so he was out, Zito didn't impress him enough to spend $16million/yr long term.

 

There wasn't the top guy available for him, and he's out of time.

 

That's the theory I'm going with. I have no proof of this, other than the fact that the free agent market for pitchers this year was rather weak.

[mhuber92211]

as most of us are refugees from either espn or cubs.com, I think we can all agree the general intelligence and posting atmosphere in this forum is far better. why don't many of you realize that the constant barrage of hyperbole trashing players, the team and the GM when transactions that aren't lopsided in favor of the Cubs take place puts us right back from whence we came?

 

there's plenty of room for criticism without resorting to these tactics. while concesus is virtually impossible, the utter nonsense that gets posted when a transaction is anything but just insanely perfect is mind numbing and flies in the face of the reasons many of us found our way here.

 

fair, reasoned, logical analysis please.

 

A lot of the posters here have a certain mindset on how they want a team built because they think its the best way to build a successful winning team. Needless to say, our GM has pretty much gameplanned completely opposite from this mindset, and as such as pretty critical.

 

I think that the key here is that many posters have a strong opinion on what is best. Therefore when someone else doesn't do it the same way, emotion takes over.

 

We saw it last offseason with Jones. At the beginning there was outrage but slowly the better and more moderate commetns take over.

 

Best thing is to not judge based on initial impressions

[CubsWin]

Jerry Crasnick of ESPN.com is reporting that the Marquis contract is for 3/21. Of course, he also is reporting that Marquis is 26 years old when he is 28, so...

 

:wink:

[Soriano12]

jjgman, many here live to bitch. It drives good postrrs away.

 

Like I said, a team that finishes dead last in the NL will bring that on.

 

Marquis was a bad signing. What do you expect? People holding hands and signing "koom by ya"?

[A New Era]

as most of us are refugees from either espn or cubs.com, I think we can all agree the general intelligence and posting atmosphere in this forum is far better. why don't many of you realize that the constant barrage of hyperbole trashing players, the team and the GM when transactions that aren't lopsided in favor of the Cubs take place puts us right back from whence we came?

 

there's plenty of room for criticism without resorting to these tactics. while concesus is virtually impossible, the utter nonsense that gets posted when a transaction is anything but just insanely perfect is mind numbing and flies in the face of the reasons many of us found our way here.

 

fair, reasoned, logical analysis please.

 

A lot of the posters here have a certain mindset on how they want a team built because they think its the best way to build a successful winning team. Needless to say, our GM has pretty much gameplanned completely opposite from this mindset, and as such as pretty critical.

 

I think that the key here is that many posters have a strong opinion on what is best. Therefore when someone else doesn't do it the same way, emotion takes over.

 

We saw it last offseason with Jones. At the beginning there was outrage but slowly the better and more moderate commetns take over.

 

Best thing is to not judge based on initial impressions

 

Good point. We didn't see the good in Jones. However could we maybe possibly TRUST the cubs scouting department? Maybe the see things in Marquis and Lilly that they will be above average pitchers from us. A cubs.com article states Rothschild thinks Lilly could be on the verge of an upswing. I guarantee you they took a good long look at all the options. And signed the guys who had the best chance to produce well. .

[Soul]

as most of us are refugees from either espn or cubs.com, I think we can all agree the general intelligence and posting atmosphere in this forum is far better. why don't many of you realize that the constant barrage of hyperbole trashing players, the team and the GM when transactions that aren't lopsided in favor of the Cubs take place puts us right back from whence we came?

 

there's plenty of room for criticism without resorting to these tactics. while concesus is virtually impossible, the utter nonsense that gets posted when a transaction is anything but just insanely perfect is mind numbing and flies in the face of the reasons many of us found our way here.

 

fair, reasoned, logical analysis please.

 

A lot of the posters here have a certain mindset on how they want a team built because they think its the best way to build a successful winning team. Needless to say, our GM has pretty much gameplanned completely opposite from this mindset, and as such as pretty critical.

 

I think that the key here is that many posters have a strong opinion on what is best. Therefore when someone else doesn't do it the same way, emotion takes over.

 

We saw it last offseason with Jones. At the beginning there was outrage but slowly the better and more moderate commetns take over.

 

Best thing is to not judge based on initial impressions

 

Yeah, but what is "best" in most people's minds is to pick up each and every top free agent for less than market value. It's not reasonable to start with.

[Jon]

Some of the things Hendry had to do this offseason to make the team better:

 

-Improve the rotation

-Improve the team's OBP

 

And some smaller things like

 

-Move Izturis

-Find a platoon partner for Jones (if Jones remains a Cub)

 

Hendry hasn't done any of those things. He added arms to the rotation, but hasn't really added quality arms.

[BWcubs21]

fair, reasoned, logical analysis please.

 

Unfortunately, something this place has had very little of this offseason! It's been hard at points to read this board when you have to wade through pages and pages of arguements that lack reason, an objective view, and have some really skewed logic. The negativity (and I can understand it a bit) on this board has been SO bad this offseason it's crazy! Despite that, this is still head and shoulders above any other forum, I just wish more people would heed jjgman21's advise above.

[CubsWin]

And that having a pitching staff like that of the '06 Cardinals is not a good thing.

 

I doubt Hendry consciously wants to be overpaying for mediocrity. He doesn't. It's just that he doesn't correctly value players in terms of either performance or market value.

 

He's desperate, can't wait for top quality pitchers to become available, Schmidt wasn't leaving the West Coast so he was out, Zito didn't impress him enough to spend $16million/yr long term.

 

There wasn't the top guy available for him, and he's out of time.

 

That's the theory I'm going with. I have no proof of this, other than the fact that the free agent market for pitchers this year was rather weak.

Its just as plausible as any other theory.

 

I think Hendry really believes in his coaches. And he doesn't think that Marquis will remain the pitcher he was last season. He thinks that if they've done it before, we can get them to do it again. Perhaps, that is foolhearty. Perhaps, it is bold. Usually, the results decide which it is. If Marquis returns to form, Hendry will have been bold. If DeRosa reverts back to before last season's production, Hendry will have been foolish.

[Soriano12]

fair, reasoned, logical analysis please.

 

Unfortunately, something this place has had very little of this offseason! It's been hard at points to read this board when you have to wade through pages and pages of arguements that lack reason, an objective view, and have some really skewed logic. The negativity (and I can understand it a bit) on this board has been SO bad this offseason it's crazy! Despite that, this is still head and shoulders above any other forum, I just wish more people would heed jjgman21's advise above.

 

 

And posts like this one ^^^^ What do they accomplish? This isn't a thread on debate tactics, its a thread on the signing of Jason Marquis.

 

I don't like it. There is a good chance that he will not get better and you will be on the hook for 21+ over 7 years. The following young pitchers can outperform Marquis.

 

Sean Marhsall

Carlos Marmol

Juan Mateo

 

There was really no point to this signing.

[A New Era]

fair, reasoned, logical analysis please.

 

Unfortunately, something this place has had very little of this offseason! It's been hard at points to read this board when you have to wade through pages and pages of arguements that lack reason, an objective view, and have some really skewed logic. The negativity (and I can understand it a bit) on this board has been SO bad this offseason it's crazy! Despite that, this is still head and shoulders above any other forum, I just wish more people would heed jjgman21's advise above.

 

Yes I agree. For every person that says we have a potential 4 #5 starters (that's quite impossible if you ask me). I can say we've got alot of talent, and you can't deny that. Hill is a potential #2, Miller is a potential #3, Lily a #3, and Marquis a #3. Potentially. Potentially.

[RichHillIsABeast]

Some of the things Hendry had to do this offseason to make the team better:

 

-Improve the rotation

-Improve the team's OBP

 

And some smaller things like

 

-Move Izturis

-Find a platoon partner for Jones (if Jones remains a Cub)

 

Hendry hasn't done any of those things. He added arms to the rotation, but hasn't really added quality arms.

 

And what quality arms did you want? Schmidt didn't take a competitive offer from the Cards, the WS champions. What makes you think he would have come to the Cubs? We weren't even a finalist for his services. He wanted to stay on the west coast.

 

Hendry decided to pay for arms instead of trading for them. We're going to need our farm system to start producing. It can't produce if you keep trading away the cream of the crop. I'm not down with trading the likes of Pie for a #2 starter (at best) in Jennings.

 

What FA did Hendry not get that you would have been willing to pay for? Drew? If Wood and Prior taught us anything, it's not to count on injury prone players.

 

Not many trades have gone down this offseason. Why is that? It's not b/c Hendry is stupid or Hendry is fat or Hendry eats too many donuts, blah blah blah.

[Soul]

Some of the things Hendry had to do this offseason to make the team better:

 

-Improve the rotation

-Improve the team's OBP

 

And some smaller things like

 

-Move Izturis

-Find a platoon partner for Jones (if Jones remains a Cub)

 

Hendry hasn't done any of those things. He added arms to the rotation, but hasn't really added quality arms.

 

How can you say signing Lilly and Marquis doesn't improve the rotation? We were starting Z,Hill,Guz,Marmol,Mateo at one point.

 

OBP: DeRosa's is much better than Neifi. Soriano's will likely turn in somewhere around the same as Pierre's .330 -- hopefully a little higher, but with much more power. Izzy's will roll in around the same as Cedeno's.

 

The first two things on your list have been improved by Hendry, probably just not as much as you would like. As far as moving Izzy, Hendry has never agreed that he needs to be moved so that's just you and the other board experts around here. Finding a platoon partner for Jones? Jones asked for a trade so I don't know who else has that on their list other than you.

Edited December 9, 2006 by Soul

[BWcubs21]

Some of the things Hendry had to do this offseason to make the team better:

 

-Improve the rotation

-Improve the team's OBP

 

And some smaller things like

 

-Move Izturis

-Find a platoon partner for Jones (if Jones remains a Cub)

 

Hendry hasn't done any of those things. He added arms to the rotation, but hasn't really added quality arms.

 

I think he improved the rotation over last years, but that isnt really saying a whole lot. That said, who could he realistically have gotten that would have vastly improved the rotation? I know Schmidt would have been a great option, but its not like we didn't try to get him, he wanted to stay on the west coast.

As for OBP, there wasn't really a whole bunch out there that was a huge upgrade. I will admit that I would have loved to see JD Drew in the outfield and to a certain extent Jim did miss the boat there, but if I was in his shoes I wouldn't have went as far as Boston did to get him. Soriano is an upgrade and I dont see how Derosa wont be one over Cedeno. JJ's OBP would look a lot better in CF, so that is a possible improvement.

As far as the last two, I just pray and hope that they are addressed during the remainder of the offseason.

[Jon]

as most of us are refugees from either espn or cubs.com, I think we can all agree the general intelligence and posting atmosphere in this forum is far better. why don't many of you realize that the constant barrage of hyperbole trashing players, the team and the GM when transactions that aren't lopsided in favor of the Cubs take place puts us right back from whence we came?

 

there's plenty of room for criticism without resorting to these tactics. while concesus is virtually impossible, the utter nonsense that gets posted when a transaction is anything but just insanely perfect is mind numbing and flies in the face of the reasons many of us found our way here.

 

fair, reasoned, logical analysis please.

You are free to respond to individual posts. But saying that there's plenty of utterly nonsensical comments being posted in here doesn't really do anything and certainly doesn't support your claim that this or other moves are good moves.

[Andy]

fair, reasoned, logical analysis please.

 

Unfortunately, something this place has had very little of this offseason! It's been hard at points to read this board when you have to wade through pages and pages of arguements that lack reason, an objective view, and have some really skewed logic. The negativity (and I can understand it a bit) on this board has been SO bad this offseason it's crazy! Despite that, this is still head and shoulders above any other forum, I just wish more people would heed jjgman21's advise above.

 

 

And posts like this one ^^^^ What do they accomplish? This isn't a thread on debate tactics, its a thread on the signing of Jason Marquis.

 

I don't like it. There is a good chance that he will not get better and you will be on the hook for 21+ over 7 years. The following young pitchers can outperform Marquis.

 

Sean Marhsall

Carlos Marmol

Juan Mateo

 

There was really no point to this signing.

We all like the potential of the Cubs' young pitching, but the simple fact of the matter is that they all posted ERA's above 5 last year. It would have been foolish for Hendry to assume that they'd get better. There's a good chance that at least one will, but you can't sit and guarantee rotation spots to young kids who have had no success in the majors as of yet.

 

(I'm trying to think of this from Hendry's POV.)

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Not many trades have gone down this offseason. Why is that? It's not b/c Hendry is stupid or Hendry is fat or Hendry eats too many donuts, blah blah blah.

 

Seriously, who uses those sort of arguments to criticize Hendry's offseason?

[oldcubsfan]

fair, reasoned, logical analysis please.

 

Unfortunately, something this place has had very little of this offseason! It's been hard at points to read this board when you have to wade through pages and pages of arguements that lack reason, an objective view, and have some really skewed logic. The negativity (and I can understand it a bit) on this board has been SO bad this offseason it's crazy! Despite that, this is still head and shoulders above any other forum, I just wish more people would heed jjgman21's advise above.

 

 

And posts like this one ^^^^ What do they accomplish? This isn't a thread on debate tactics, its a thread on the signing of Jason Marquis.

 

I don't like it. There is a good chance that he will not get better and you will be on the hook for 21+ over 7 years. The following young pitchers can outperform Marquis.

 

Sean Marhsall

Carlos Marmol

Juan Mateo

 

There was really no point to this signing.

Those pitchers didn't step up last year enough to count on them starting this year.

[CUBZ99]

Chicagosports has edited the story to show the original reported 3/28MM deal. :x

[Andy]

fair, reasoned, logical analysis please.

 

Unfortunately, something this place has had very little of this offseason! It's been hard at points to read this board when you have to wade through pages and pages of arguements that lack reason, an objective view, and have some really skewed logic. The negativity (and I can understand it a bit) on this board has been SO bad this offseason it's crazy! Despite that, this is still head and shoulders above any other forum, I just wish more people would heed jjgman21's advise above.

 

 

And posts like this one ^^^^ What do they accomplish? This isn't a thread on debate tactics, its a thread on the signing of Jason Marquis.

 

I don't like it. There is a good chance that he will not get better and you will be on the hook for 21+ over 7 years. The following young pitchers can outperform Marquis.

 

Sean Marhsall

Carlos Marmol

Juan Mateo

 

There was really no point to this signing.

Those pitchers didn't step up last year enough to count on them starting this year.

Basically the point I was trying to make, only more concise. :)

[CoolHandLuke]

There is absolutely no way a pitcher coming off of a year as bad as Marquis' 2006 should be able to get a multi year 20+ million dollar deal. This signing is bad bad bad and I see no reason why people shouldn't be upset. He could be good, I hope he is good, but the fact is he wasn't just not good last year, he was absolutely awful. And even in his one good full year he allowed more hits than innings pitched, didnt strike out many batters, allowed too many home runs and walked too many people. I am excited for next year with all the fresh faces, but I honestly don't see this team performing very well unless they catch a lot of breaks.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Chicagosports has edited the story to show the original reported 3/28MM deal. :x

 

Seriously, this is a firing offense for Hendry if I were the owner. Inexcusable. Are you flipping kidding me, $9MM/year for Jason Marquis? Wha??

[RichHillIsABeast]

Not many trades have gone down this offseason. Why is that? It's not b/c Hendry is stupid or Hendry is fat or Hendry eats too many donuts, blah blah blah.

 

Seriously, who uses those sort of arguments to criticize Hendry's offseason?

 

Disgruntled Cubs Fan for one. There are plenty of other village idiots that chime in with that nonsense whenever they see a move they don't like.

 

It's getting old.

[Soriano12]

Chicagosports has edited the story to show the original reported 3/28MM deal. :x

 

vomits in mouth.

 

9.3 million for this turd! HENDRY YOU TOOL!

 

 

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

[Shilzzz]

Some of the things Hendry had to do this offseason to make the team better:

 

-Improve the rotation

-Improve the team's OBP

 

And some smaller things like

 

-Move Izturis

-Find a platoon partner for Jones (if Jones remains a Cub)

 

Hendry hasn't done any of those things. He added arms to the rotation, but hasn't really added quality arms.

 

And what quality arms did you want? Schmidt didn't take a competitive offer from the Cards, the WS champions. What makes you think he would have come to the Cubs? We weren't even a finalist for his services. He wanted to stay on the west coast.

 

snip

 

three/four years at 10-11.5 mil/per is not that competitive.