you can't blame Bartman

[J.R.]

Steve Bartman was a total screwup that night

 

I also forgot to add, that is an igonrant statement ^^^^

 

Why?

 

Alou could have grabbed a second out with a tremendous play that would have set the momentum in our favor in a most un-Cub-like way, and possibly set the stage for a World Series in our lifetimes. But we'll never know because of the actions of one STEVE BARTMAN. Others failed that night, but he was the first to do a stupid thing.

[Sammy Sofa]

Poor Bartman. Yeah, Alou had a shot at catching that, but pretty much anyone would have been trying to catch the ball in the heat of the moment. When you're in the stands like that and a ball is coming down, you're of course looking up at the ball and not down at the field. Everyone else in the stands in the photo is trying to catch it, too, so it's not like he did anything wrong or unusual. And while Mosies' tantrum was totally unecessary, I can see why it happened given that this is the Cubs and they were that close to finally going back to the WS after almost 60 years. It doesn't make it right, but I can see why he got so upset after such a weird happening in that setting. People make mistakes, so most of what happened just happened because human nature was involved...that said, given how much control he had, Dusty's actions and lack of action are basically inexcusable and A-Gon bobbling that ball is downright ridiculous. Yeah, he made a mistake, too, but it was a much more glaring one than the ball in the stands and could have ended the inning right there. Moises would have only gotten the 2nd out.

 

I agree that Dusty's moves - or lack thereof - helped to finish off the NLCS for the Cubs that year. Your logic, however, in placing more blame on one position player over another seems flawed.

 

Alex Gonzales bobbled a ball, which happens occasionally in baseball. Even D-Lee will misplay a ball sometimes. Is it not human to err?

 

Moises, meanwhile, displayed an emotional outburst during the infamous play. It is also human to respond emotionally sometimes, no?

 

My logic tells me that mistakes happen, and it's fine for people (baseball players included) to make them. However, it is also up to professionals (again, including ballplayers) to behave professionally. Therefore, one could blame Moises for blowing up when he should have just trotted back out to LF and awaited the next play.

 

But it's all just water the bridge at this point, I suppose...

 

I'm not out and out blaming Gonzales for what he did...I just said I think it was a much more glaring and ridiculous mistake than what Alou did/didn't do.

[jjgman21]

Whats funny is that the Alou incident set the stage for 2004 for be an absolute pressure cooker right from the start, and what should have been a 95 win team melted down in the end.

 

yeah, that's fricken hilarious.

[USSoccer]

Whats funny is that the Alou incident set the stage for 2004 for be an absolute pressure cooker right from the start, and what should have been a 95 win team melted down in the end.

 

yeah, that's fricken hilarious.

 

Not haha funny. Just...funny.

[Abe Frohman]

Iunno i think he wouldve made that catch...

 

I honestly don't know how anyone can look at that picture and make a legitimate argument that the ball was in the stands.

 

fan interference, batter's out, Gonzo not hurrying to make a DP, batter's out. pen in, game over, on to the WS.

 

That is the FIRST THING that I thought when it happened. Why was that not fan interference? Why didn't Dusty Baker come running out and point that out? I believe Dusty came out to the mound because Prior was upset, but don't remember any talk about it being a fan interference call.

 

In addition, there is no excuse for Bartman and the people around him. Not that the whole collapse is his fault, but anyone with that good of seats (plus the fact that I am assuming that he was listening to the game on those obscene headphones) should have their head in the game. If you are thinking, you take your arms and move everyone out of the way to allow Alou a chance at making that catch, which I am convinced he would have done.

 

Instead, you try for a souvenir and hurt your team. Alou deserves ZERO criticism for being mad. I would think that I would have climbed the wall and done something with those headphones.

 

Regardless, bonehead play by Bartman - but that is it. Not his fault the Cubs didn't win that game and advance to the World Series.

[Andy]

Whats funny is that the Alou incident set the stage for 2004 for be an absolute pressure cooker right from the start, and what should have been a 95 win team melted down in the end.

What set things up for 2004 to be a pressure-cooker was the Cubs trading for Derrek Lee to replace the Choi/Simon/Karros first-base group, signing LaTroy Hawkins to replace Crappy Setup Men A, B and C, signing Greg Maddux to replace Shawn Estes, replacing whoever the hell played third base in the first half of 2003 with a full year of Aramis numbers. Then in July it was all topped off by replacing our worst position player at the time with Nomar.

 

That team had no business not winning 100 games.

[Abe Frohman]

 

That team had no business not winning 100 games.

 

Amen.

 

Thank you Wood/Prior/Goat.

[CubmanPi]

http://www.georgehernandez.com/h/aaBlog/2003/media/10_SteveBartmanAndMoisesAlou.jpg

 

Iunno i think he wouldve made that catch...

 

This calls for my favorite photoshop ever...

 

 

 

 

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/cubbybear314/BartmanPhotoshop.jpg

[Sosa21MVP]

I never blamed Bartman, not even when that play happened. Trust me, it would have been easy seeing as how I had a Cardinals fan chirping about it right next to me. My cousin was actually rooting for the Cubs in that game too BTW. I just shrugged it off. The game was still under control at that point. The unraveling that happened after that play, that is all on the men wearing the Cubbies blue between the lines. AGonz pulled a Buckner and got a free pass on it.

 

But I still hold positive memories of the whole experience. It was an exciting and unexpected run by the Cubs. That team was 51-53 after 104 games.

[Brian]

Bartman wasn't the reason, BUT if this

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/cubbybear314/BartmanPhotoshop.jpg

 

would have happened, who knows how things would have turned out :cry:

[Omar]

Gah. I hate The Butterfly Effect theory. It fits in perfectly here.

[Warpticon]

The name "Steve Bartman" makes me furious beyond description. Not because he mistakenly interfered witha foul ball, but because the subhuman tripe in the media took it upon themselves to destroy a man's life over a freaking mistake at a baseball game in order to further their own careers. Disgusting.

[erik316wttn]

1) It's not a 100 percent guarantee Alou catches that ball.

 

2) If Gonzo turns the DP, we go into the 9th up 3-1 and could have brought in JoBo to shut the Marlins down.

 

3) Dusty is a fool.

 

Game 6 causes me much pain, so this will be my only post in this thread.

[Jon]

Remember when ESPN used to have original programming that was actually worth watching?

 

'Cause I don't.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

The name "Steve Bartman" makes me furious beyond description. Not because he mistakenly interfered witha foul ball, but because the subhuman tripe in the media took it upon themselves to destroy a man's life over a freaking mistake at a baseball game in order to further their own careers. Disgusting.

 

=D>

[J.R.]

The name "Steve Bartman" makes me furious beyond description. Not because he mistakenly interfered witha foul ball, but because the subhuman tripe in the media took it upon themselves to destroy a man's life over a freaking mistake at a baseball game in order to further their own careers. Disgusting.

 

What is one man's privacy and pride compared to the hopes and dreams of millions? Besides, he was hardly "destroyed" — he still holds down a decent job in Chicago, hasn't been harmed or burned out of his home or anything of the sort.

 

I wish I had been at Game 6, if only to have had a chance to pitch a stale beer in his direction. He stupidly inserted himself into this storyline and deserves no sympathy.

[treebird]

The name "Steve Bartman" makes me furious beyond description. Not because he mistakenly interfered witha foul ball, but because the subhuman tripe in the media took it upon themselves to destroy a man's life over a freaking mistake at a baseball game in order to further their own careers. Disgusting.

 

What is one man's privacy and pride compared to the hopes and dreams of millions? Besides, he was hardly "destroyed" — he still holds down a decent job in Chicago, hasn't been harmed or burned out of his home or anything of the sort.

 

I wish I had been at Game 6, if only to have had a chance to pitch a stale beer in his direction. He stupidly inserted himself into this storyline and deserves no sympathy.

 

agreed 100%

[JGalt73]

http://www.fangraphs.com/tgraphs/20031014_Marlins_Cubs_0.png

 

I love (hate) this graph of the win probability of the game (Fangraphs.com).

[Abe Frohman]

For the record, I am dronk right NOW. I have no idea why I am on this board at this time, but I would buy Bartman several beers fo sure. I have no ill will towards him, and kudos to him for becoming a part af Cub history.

 

Really.

 

God bless Makers mark.

Edited December 2, 2006 by Abe Frohman

[FergieJ31]

 

This calls for my favorite photoshop ever...

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/cubbybear314/BartmanPhotoshop.jpg

 

Best photoshop of all time ... this almost moved me to tears

[CubmanPi]

Best photoshop of all time ... this almost moved me to tears

The first time I saw it, I had to wait for it a sec, but I had the same reaction. If I look at it long enough, it still gets to me. Profound indeed.

[chopsx9]

Just like to point out that the two people sitting on either side of Bartman are moving AWAY from thr ball. I guess two out of three ain"t bad!?!

[Omar]

Yet again, ESPN never fails to remind us of that incident. Thanks guys. :o

 

I'm sure it wasn't any worse than the "Whose Curse is Worse" special where they had a judge, jury, and court defense lawyers present the Red Sox and Cubs case.

 

That was downright humiliatingly lame. They were really milking that cash cow for all it was worth

 

Most of the jury were Red Sox fans, or from New England according to their accent. Whose Curse is Worse now?

[Omar]

No, I dont blame Bartman. I blame Alou. Look man, a guy is there to see you guys win. You dont react like that. You scarred him for life, while you take your multi-million dollar paycheck and leave. If Alou hadnt reacted like he did, it wouldn'tve of put everyone in a state of anger/dismay. It could've been just like any other missed catch in the foul zone. But Alou had to react like the A-hole he is..

[VanceJergins]

No, I dont blame Bartman. I blame Alou. Look man, a guy is there to see you guys win. You dont react like that. You scarred him for life, while you take your multi-million dollar paycheck and leave. If Alou hadnt reacted like he did, it wouldn'tve of put everyone in a state of anger/dismay. It could've been just like any other missed catch in the foul zone. But Alou had to react like the A-hole he is..

 

If you were 5 outs away from the world series and you went to catch a ball basically on the dividing line between the field and the stands that would make you 4 outs from the world series and some dude with stupid headphones knocked the ball away, you would, in the heat of the moment, stop to rationally think things through? You would stop to think, "Everyone makes mistakes, back to business as usually." and calmly walk away? Not saying Alou is excused, but thats an intense situation.