Bruce's take on Dusty era: It’s been a hoot

[fromthestretch]

I agree about pitch counts, but innings pitched is still stressful. Perhaps not as stressful, but who knows? Look no further then the South Side and their staff. Last year they had low pitch counts, but threw a ton of innings. Which may answer why their staff (with those same pitchers) aren't nearly as effective this year.

 

Garland is right at about his career average for ERA and WHIP, while Contreras is at right about his career average for ERA and better than his career average for WHIP. Considering that Garland has had one good full season and Contreras has been inconsistent as a major leaguer, I'd say they're pitching as well as could be expected.

 

Garcia and Buehrle are both struggling. No question about that.

 

Vazquez hasn't been good for a couple years, and he wasn't even on the Sox last year.

[fallingpieces]

Don't worry about it guys. This isn't even a debate. We all no that Brenly is going to get the job. :lol: Johnson could retire to be our pitching coach too.

[CubinNY]

Don't worry about it guys. This isn't even a debate. We all no that Brenly is going to get the job. :lol: Johnson could retire to be our pitching coach too.

 

I wouldn't be one bit shocked if Brenly got the job. I would be royally pissed, but not shocked.

 

However, I don't see the manager mattering much as long as Hendry consistently builds weak to medicore teams. He may have been a good scout and perhaps a good farm director, but he is not a good GM. And Hughes makes me want to vomit.

 

A team cannot win with a bench full of Freddy Bynums, a pitching staff full of ? and two guys who can drive in 100 runs.

[goonys evil twin]

A team cannot win with a bench full of Freddy Bynums, a pitching staff full of ? and two guys who can drive in 100 runs.

 

I wouldn't say they "cannot" win. There are always exceptions. It's possible to win with that. It's possible to win the Hendry way. The problem is your odds aren't very good. It's an incredibly inefficient and risky way to build your team. The GM should do a better job of improving your odds, that is what his job is all about.

[FergieJ31]

Don't worry about it guys. This isn't even a debate. We all no that Brenly is going to get the job. :lol: Johnson could retire to be our pitching coach too.

 

I wouldn't be one bit shocked if Brenly got the job. I would be royally pissed, but not shocked.

 

However, I don't see the manager mattering much as long as Hendry consistently builds weak to medicore teams. He may have been a good scout and perhaps a good farm director, but he is not a good GM. And Hughes makes me want to vomit.

 

A team cannot win with a bench full of Freddy Bynums, a pitching staff full of ? and two guys who can drive in 100 runs.

 

Quoted for truth.

[Soriano12]

I just recently joined...but I have to comment on how cool it is

that Bruce joins in on discussions with us.

 

I have always enjoyed his Cubs coverage.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Girardi please.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

 

They took Lirano from a bullpen role early in the year and threw him into a starting role allowing him to go 7-8 innings every start.

 

He pitched a total of 76 innings in June and July..thats on pace for a 230 IP season.

 

Again..I'm not trying to condem them...but I would hardly say they were careful with him when the team got on a roll during those months.

 

Innings aren't the same as total pitches. If you have a guy throw 9 every game but he does it in 90 pitches, that's a lot less stressful than a guy who goes 5 every game but throws 120+. Liriano only had 5 outings with 100+ pitches, none over 110. I think the biggest mistake may have been having him start less than a week after he missed a start with elbow problems. He had as many sub 7 inning outings as he had 8 inning outings.

 

I agree about pitch counts, but innings pitched is still stressful. Perhaps not as stressful, but who knows? Look no further then the South Side and their staff. Last year they had low pitch counts, but threw a ton of innings. Which may answer why their staff (with those same pitchers) aren't nearly as effective this year.

 

Neither IP or P/S in a vaccuum are a good way to judge if a pitcher is being overused.

[Soriano12]

 

They took Lirano from a bullpen role early in the year and threw him into a starting role allowing him to go 7-8 innings every start.

 

He pitched a total of 76 innings in June and July..thats on pace for a 230 IP season.

 

Again..I'm not trying to condem them...but I would hardly say they were careful with him when the team got on a roll during those months.

 

Innings aren't the same as total pitches. If you have a guy throw 9 every game but he does it in 90 pitches, that's a lot less stressful than a guy who goes 5 every game but throws 120+. Liriano only had 5 outings with 100+ pitches, none over 110. I think the biggest mistake may have been having him start less than a week after he missed a start with elbow problems. He had as many sub 7 inning outings as he had 8 inning outings.

 

I agree about pitch counts, but innings pitched is still stressful. Perhaps not as stressful, but who knows? Look no further then the South Side and their staff. Last year they had low pitch counts, but threw a ton of innings. Which may answer why their staff (with those same pitchers) aren't nearly as effective this year.

 

Neither IP or P/S in a vaccuum are a good way to judge if a pitcher is being overused.

 

Billy Swift would dissagree.

[Rob]

Am I the only one still on the Fredi Gonzalez BandWGN?

 

After him, I'd be all about Girardi though.

 

Oh, and a quick question... does anybody know what Earl Weaver is up to these days?

[Soriano12]

Am I the only one still on the Fredi Gonzalez BandWGN?

 

Certainly Latin Mangers have shown a unique "ability" to connect with

fellow latin players.

 

Given that our third baseman, while extremely talented, tends to "drift off"

from time to time...I wouldn't mind a guy that could push him.

 

I heard rumors that Alou was constantly riding Ramirez when he was a cub.

 

Gonzales would come with a modest pricetag so if he turned out to be

a dud of a manager, managment would be more inclined to move in a

diff. directly quickly.

[Andy]

I would like to see Dierker or Girardi, but Fredi would probably be my top choice.

[snoodmonger]

Oh, and a quick question... does anybody know what Earl Weaver is up to these days?

 

Probably playing BINGO and accusing the RNs at his nursing home of stealing his cuff links.

[Soul]

I hate seeing failure, so even though I agree Dusty must go, it gives me no joy to see it happen.

 

 

I, too, thought it was a strange fit from the beginning. The guy who once laughed at us when asked about us suddenly becomes our manager. It was a marriage of convenience, Dusty wanting the big payday and Hendry wanting the big name to solidify his position as GM.

 

At first it worked. We got that fabled "bump" that sometimes happens when a new relationship in sports occurs.

 

And I thought maybe. Maybe if the Cubs keep feeding the players to Dusty, and the pitching arms just continue to hum, and the magic pixie dust keeps falling at Wrigley. Maybe it will work.

 

But after 2003 it was a steep, steep downhill swing. The difference between 2003 and 2004 was like turning off the only light in a room. And it hasn't turned back on since.

 

Imagine the ballclub we had in 2004. Imagine the talent. And through all the injuries, WE WERE STILL IN IT. Still in it. And then, of all things, it was after we got completely healthy for the first time that year -- that was when we collapsed and gave away the playoff spot.

 

The most damning evidence of all against Dusty: when he finally had "his guys".........that's when he suffered the biggest collapse of his tenure as Cubs manager.

[Evers2Tinker2Chance]

Im sure that this has been well documented, but please forgive me as i have been away for a while. Can some one give me a BRIEF rundown on the ups and downs of each manager. I read this thread a got some of diekers views from vance but i was wondering what Freddi G, Giradi and Larry D would all bring to the table.

 

Again just a brief rundown is all im asking.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Im sure that this has been well documented, but please forgive me as i have been away for a while. Can some one give me a BRIEF rundown on the ups and downs of each manager. I read this thread a got some of diekers views from vance but i was wondering what Freddi G, Giradi and Larry D would all bring to the table.

 

Again just a brief rundown is all im asking.

 

For Dierker read the thread I linked earlier.

 

Girardi, I have a fear would be a little too old-school for my liking. I also have my fear that Girardi could be a "control-freak" on level with Showalter. That remains to be seen.

 

With Gonzalez, it's a little difficult to say as his views have really not been made public. He has had success as a minor league manager and has worked under Cox which are viewed as his major plusses.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Am I the only one still on the Fredi Gonzalez BandWGN?

 

After him, I'd be all about Girardi though.

 

Oh, and a quick question... does anybody know what Earl Weaver is up to these days?

 

No, I'm firmly planted on the Fredi BandWGN.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

 

They took Lirano from a bullpen role early in the year and threw him into a starting role allowing him to go 7-8 innings every start.

 

He pitched a total of 76 innings in June and July..thats on pace for a 230 IP season.

 

Again..I'm not trying to condem them...but I would hardly say they were careful with him when the team got on a roll during those months.

 

Innings aren't the same as total pitches. If you have a guy throw 9 every game but he does it in 90 pitches, that's a lot less stressful than a guy who goes 5 every game but throws 120+. Liriano only had 5 outings with 100+ pitches, none over 110. I think the biggest mistake may have been having him start less than a week after he missed a start with elbow problems. He had as many sub 7 inning outings as he had 8 inning outings.

 

I agree about pitch counts, but innings pitched is still stressful. Perhaps not as stressful, but who knows? Look no further then the South Side and their staff. Last year they had low pitch counts, but threw a ton of innings. Which may answer why their staff (with those same pitchers) aren't nearly as effective this year.

 

Neither IP or P/S in a vaccuum are a good way to judge if a pitcher is being overused.

 

Billy Swift would dissagree.

 

The key words in my post were "in a vaccuum."

 

Billy Swift was abused.

[stitchface]

The difference between 2003 and 2004 was like turning off the only light in a room

 

What are you getting at here? Until Diaz hit that homerun, 2004 was a much better year save for the vast improvement of the cardinals. the cubs were on course for 93-95 wins until the wheels came off. they still won one more game than in 2003 though. that clubhouse melt down is probably the best evidence to date of intangibles possibly influencing play and also of dusty's incompetence as a leader.

[imb]

I was on the Fredi Gonzalez train until i learned that he was on an episode of blue collar comedy tv or whatever.

 

give me dierker or give me death

[iowacub]

Bruce--loved the article....excellent job and couldn't agree more. I would personally like to see the Cubs get a manager with some fire in his belly, show me as a fan some competitiveness. Too much this season it looks as if the Cubs players' are just going through the motions. Just my two cents..

[Fred Hornkohl]

I was on the Fredi Gonzalez train until i learned that he was on an episode of blue collar comedy tv or whatever.

 

give me dierker or give me death

 

IMB.... be real careful what you ask for, eh? :wink: