Bruce's take on Dusty era: It’s been a hoot

[goonys evil twin]

Bruce Miles wrote about what he believes should be the last weeks of Dusty's and the Cubs relationship.

 

 

PITTSBURGH — Being around a baseball team for eight months, the beat writer gets close to those he or she covers.

 

You criticize, but you try to temper it with fairness and a little compassion.

 

That’s why it’s tough to write this: It’s time for the Cubs and manager Dusty Baker to part ways.

 

I guess I'll have to take him at his word on that. I sure haven't found it that tough.

 

As Hendry would say, obviously it's a lot different for an anonymous fan to write that line than for a beat writer who has been around the guy for almost 32 of the past 48 months. Then again, being that close might have caused some of us to write that line more frequently.

 

general manager Jim Hendry can announce that the Cubs and Dusty Baker have agreed mutually to go their separate ways. Nobody quits. Nobody gets fired.

 

Hopefully that's exactly what happens. It's not ideal, but it's the most we can reasonably hope for now.

 

It didn’t have to end this way, of course.

 

No, it did not. Bruce describes how Baker's decision to verbalize some complaints about Cubs management the past few weeks has probably greased the skids for his exit. But I would argue that this sort of exit was practically inevitable. I predicted from day one that Dusty was a bad fit and that the era would end badly. I thought, at the time, that Hendry's job was closely tied to Baker and that if Hendry ever got rid of Dusty, he'd be sealing his own fate as well. Maybe that's still true, but only if you accept that his next hire will be his last, as it will open him up for more direct criticism that Dusty previously absorbed.

 

Once again, Bruce hammers home the OBP issue. Most likely, however, that will fall on deaf ears, at least at Wrigley.

[C.C.]

The sad part is I don't see alot changing until they hire a GM and Manager that values OBP. It amazes me how the rest of baseball values this and the Cubs are either blind to it or are stubborn in thier outdated ways...

 

It's depressing!

[Soriano12]

Where will Dusty rank amoung Cubs managers?

 

Guys like Lebevere, Riggleman, Baylor are consistently

looked down upon

 

But did any have the cumulative talent Baker did in 4 years?

 

The Tribune spent more $$$ in the Baker era than any other.

 

Yes, some of it was foolishly spent and players got hurt.

 

But thats just another excuse.

 

Excuses are like a-holes, everyone's got one, and they all stink.

 

Even yours Dusty.

Edited August 29, 2006 by Soriano12

[jmajew]

It'd be nice if Hendry realizes the value of having the two compteting opinions in the same organization. If he gets a manager that values OBP maybe they can find a middle ground and go after players who fit Hendry's mold and the new managers mold.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Great article, Bruce. But couldn't you have also included a plug for Mr. Dierker?

[RichHillIsABeast]

Hendry's idea of having an opposing viewpoint is a scout who likes a different type of player.

[Jehrico]

Where will Dusty rank amoung Cubs managers?

 

Guys like Lebevere, Riggleman, Baylor are consistently

looked down upon

 

But did any have the cumulative talent Baker did in 4 years?

 

The Tribune spent more $$$ in the Baker era than any other.

 

Yes, some of it was foolishly spent and players got hurt.

 

But thats just another excuse.

 

Excuses are like a-holes, everyone's got one, and they all stink.

 

Even yours Dusty.

 

I thought Riggs got shafted.

[C.C.]

Great article, Bruce. But couldn't you have also included a plug for Mr. Dierker?

 

Couldn't resist the Dierker plug eh?

[Banedon]

Guys like Lebevere, Riggleman, Baylor are consistently looked down upon

 

Actually I think you'll find Riggleman to be more appreciated than you think by most fans, at least on this board. He had a bad team in 1998 that he got to the wild card (largely thanks to Sammy). It would be interesting to see what he could do with a team that had talent out of more than one great slugger and one amazing rookie pitcher..

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Great article, Bruce. But couldn't you have also included a plug for Mr. Dierker?

 

Couldn't resist the Dierker plug eh?

 

I'm going to keep banging that drum until the game of musical chairs is finished.

 

I've already made my plug on the Trib site. I'm just trying to get someone else to take the ball and run a little with it.

[C.C.]

Guys like Lebevere, Riggleman, Baylor are consistently looked down upon

 

Actually I think you'll find Riggleman to be more appreciated than you think by most fans, at least on this board. He had a bad team in 1998 that he got to the wild card (largely thanks to Sammy). It would be interesting to see what he could do with a team that had talent out of more than one great slugger and one amazing rookie pitcher..

 

It's amazing that he never got consideration to manage another team.

[Soriano12]

Guys like Lebevere, Riggleman, Baylor are consistently looked down upon

 

Actually I think you'll find Riggleman to be more appreciated than you think by most fans, at least on this board. He had a bad team in 1998 that he got to the wild card (largely thanks to Sammy). It would be interesting to see what he could do with a team that had talent out of more than one great slugger and one amazing rookie pitcher..

 

FWIW...I liked Riggs.

 

The opinion on him varies.

 

I find it funny he got canned for a bad start, yet Dusty stayed when the team was pitiful in may/june.

[C.C.]

Great article, Bruce. But couldn't you have also included a plug for Mr. Dierker?

 

Couldn't resist the Dierker plug eh?

 

I'm going to keep banging that drum until the game of musical chairs is finished.

 

I've already made my plug on the Trib site. I'm just trying to get someone else to take the ball and run a little with it.

 

I know I read your your article on the TRIB site, and to be honest I had to look up his managerial record, and it was quite impressive. He's one of those guys you just forget about, because he never managed a major market team...

[Soriano12]

Can Dierker manager again from a health perspective?

 

Is there a risk? Does he want to take it?

[stitchface]

Great article, Bruce. But couldn't you have also included a plug for Mr. Dierker?

 

Couldn't resist the Dierker plug eh?

 

I'm going to keep banging that drum until the game of musical chairs is finished.

 

I've already made my plug on the Trib site. I'm just trying to get someone else to take the ball and run a little with it.

 

his treatment of pitchers is enough to make me look elsewhere.

[C.C.]

Great article, Bruce. But couldn't you have also included a plug for Mr. Dierker?

 

Couldn't resist the Dierker plug eh?

 

I'm going to keep banging that drum until the game of musical chairs is finished.

 

I've already made my plug on the Trib site. I'm just trying to get someone else to take the ball and run a little with it.

 

his treatment of pitchers is enough to make me look elsewhere.

 

Can you elaborate on that?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Great article, Bruce. But couldn't you have also included a plug for Mr. Dierker?

 

Couldn't resist the Dierker plug eh?

 

I'm going to keep banging that drum until the game of musical chairs is finished.

 

I've already made my plug on the Trib site. I'm just trying to get someone else to take the ball and run a little with it.

 

his treatment of pitchers is enough to make me look elsewhere.

 

Can you elaborate on that?

 

I'll elaborate. Dierker feels that during ST starters should get stretched out so that they are capable of throwing 115-120 pitches if they are throwing effectively. He doesn't like having an early hook. His philosophy is that even a pitcher with a good track record may not always have his best stuff and you can't know this until you see him on the mound. If he has a starter who is effectively getting people out, he doesn't like going to the pitcher in the bullpen when he doesn't know what kind of stuff he will have.

[stitchface]

Great article, Bruce. But couldn't you have also included a plug for Mr. Dierker?

 

Couldn't resist the Dierker plug eh?

 

I'm going to keep banging that drum until the game of musical chairs is finished.

 

I've already made my plug on the Trib site. I'm just trying to get someone else to take the ball and run a little with it.

 

his treatment of pitchers is enough to make me look elsewhere.

 

 

 

Can you elaborate on that?

 

Dierker was one of those managers that believed pitchers should throw complete games. He frequently left his starters in longer than I thought was appropriate. I think the Cubs can find a manager no worse than Dierker that will be cheaper and not have a history of pitcher abuse.

[C.C.]

Great article, Bruce. But couldn't you have also included a plug for Mr. Dierker?

 

Couldn't resist the Dierker plug eh?

 

I'm going to keep banging that drum until the game of musical chairs is finished.

 

I've already made my plug on the Trib site. I'm just trying to get someone else to take the ball and run a little with it.

 

his treatment of pitchers is enough to make me look elsewhere.

 

 

 

Can you elaborate on that?

 

Dierker was one of those managers that believed pitchers should throw complete games. He frequently left his starters in longer than I thought was appropriate. I think the Cubs can find a manager no worse than Dierker that will be cheaper and not have a history of pitcher abuse.

 

Sounds like Dusty all over again.

[Soriano12]

There is a diifference between leaving your starter in too long in a heat of a pennat race and leaving your starter in too long when your team is 25 games under 500.

[C.C.]

There is a diifference between leaving your starter in too long in a heat of a pennat race and leaving your starter in too long when your team is 25 games under 500.

 

Well isn't that what Dusty did in 2003? Dierker was never 25 games under, so we'll never know if that's true.

Edited August 29, 2006 by C.C.

[stitchface]

Sounds like Dusty all over again.

 

not really. dierker at least has some thought behind his decisions.

[C.C.]

Sounds like Dusty all over again.

 

not really. dierker at least has some thought behind his decisions.

 

So did Dusty doesn't mean either of them is right...

[Soriano12]

There is a diifference between leaving your starter in too long in a heat of a pennat race and leaving your starter in too long when your team is 25 games under 500.

 

Well isn't that what Dusty did in 2003? Dierker was never 25 games under, so we'll never know if that's true.

 

Me personally,as much as I despise Dusty, I don't hold the pitch counts against him in 2003. 99% of managers would leverage that talent .

 

The Twins are doing it now, so are the Tigers.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Dierker's beliefs are well-thought out. I'd reccomend reading This Ain't Brain Surgery if you'd really like to get a grasp on his philosophies.

 

I think he'd be an ideal person as he can combine his experience as a player with a proper use of stats.

 

Furthermore, based on what I've read from Dierker, I can almost guarantee he'd have had someone getting up in the pen at the start of the 7th inning in game six against the Fish.