The Soccer Thread

[wolf stansson]

Carroll. Only an American would think this is even close. Carroll has already been pretty successful in the Premiership at a young age. Though he has struggled with Liverpool, certainly, he scored 14 goals in 37 Premier League appearances for Newcastle (which includes his time as an 18-year-old). Altidore had scored six total goals in Europe before scoring 19 last year in the Eredivisie (which is not exactly the hardest league to score in). When Altidore played in England, he managed one goal in 29 games for Hull. Even at his worst last year, Carroll scored nine goals in 47 games for an awful, goal-allergic Liverpool team.

It's closer than you think.

At age 22, Jozy has scored 41 club goals in 154 appearances. At age 23, Carroll has 45 in 159. Carroll has accusations of having the too much too soon athlete syndrome. Jozy has dealt with adversity and seemingly come out on top of it. We've yet to see Carroll start to bounce back from the adversity he faced last year at Liverpool. Those factors, combined with the trend of American players developing at older ages due to the deficit in player development in the US relative to other countries and Jozy's superior athleticism, it's not crazy to think that it's more likely that Jozy is still playing for a big club and contributing to his national team in 5 years than Carroll. Carroll has had the benefit of club and cultural stability to develop as a professional as well as more talented teammates to feed him goals than when Jozy had a stint in the Premiership. That's just one reason it's unfair to compare Jozy's stint at Hull to Carroll's premiership performances. Jozy played on one of the worst offensive Premiership teams in history at age 20. Carroll, at age 23, played on a very talented team. Jozy would have scored more than 9 goals in 47 games playing Carroll's minutes last season at Liverpool.

Edited June 25, 2012 by wolf stansson

[USSoccer]

That's an unfair comparison. Jozy played on an absolute garbage Hull team and got no service. Carroll was made the focal point of that Newcastle side.

 

Longer term, Jozy has more tools to be more of an impact striker. Whether he does or not is entirely up to him.

[wolf stansson]

Also, let's be real, England is a level above the US, but that level isn't a huge leap. Just because a guy gets selected to their team and plays on a big club with a big price tag on his mantle, doesn't mean he's any good. Liverpool ownership pretty much admitted they had no idea who he was when they authorized the funds to buy him. Comolli lost his job because that signing was such a [expletive] up. He's not a good international quality striker. He's Kevin Davies without the heart.

[Exile on Waveland]

As far as being on the England national team, or the exhorbitant transfer fee, sure, those mean he's been overrated (though England is crap and I believe they were correct in picking Carroll). But you'll hear no meatbally arguments from me that either proves he's better than Altidore.

 

Regardless, Carroll has proven far more than Altidore, who at the club level has done basically nothing besides one good season in the Eredivisie. As for Hull being terrible, sure. Yet, at the same age, Carroll was playing on a Newcastle team that would be relegated (i.e., they were also terrible). He scored three goals in 16 appearances (not great, but better than one in 29). The following year he crushed the Championship (19 goals in 42 appearances). Then the next year had a great start the next Premiership (11 goals in 19 games; then two in seven for Liverpool). He stunk last year -- though he did pick it up at the end of the year -- but that's one subpar season (though if we're talking about service, I watched every Liverpool game and Carroll got crap for service too). Altidore has had one good year, which, again was in the Eredivisie. Comparing Hull to a relegated Newcastle is at least as fair as comparing the Eredivisie to the Premier League.

 

It's counterfactual to say Altidore would have scored more for Liverpool last year (and I doubt that anyway); but, at the same time, I think it's likely Carroll would have scored more in the Eredivisie than in the Premiership.

[shnsajax]

My issue with Carroll is that he is sort of a one trick pony. Win the ball in the air and distribute. Watching him take on a defender one on one is sometimes brutal and his shot from outside the box is below average. There were many times Liverpool was better off with Kuyt upfront with Suarez.

[wolf stansson]

The Future of US Soccer, part 1: http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/30545/the-future-of-u-s-soccer-part-i-the-high-school-debate

[Exile on Waveland]

My issue with Carroll is that he is sort of a one trick pony. Win the ball in the air and distribute. Watching him take on a defender one on one is sometimes brutal and his shot from outside the box is below average. There were many times Liverpool was better off with Kuyt upfront with Suarez.

 

Carroll's certainly not without flaws. He is all but incapable of taking a defender one-on-one (though I disagree with his shooting, he's actually quite good with his left foot, including outside the box). As for Suarez and Kuyt, they had a very good understanding together, and you'll get no arguments from me that Carroll was poor most of the season.

 

Oh, and Comolli didn't lose his job because of the Carroll transfer. FSG were pretty clear they believed they had to make some move while losing Torres and valued Torres at 15 million pounds more than Carroll. A lot went into that move outside of on-the-field and they basically got what they wanted (obviously they would have preferred that Carroll perform better). Comolli lost his job because of the likes of Stewart Downing and Charlie Adam, who were both brutal and aren't likely to improve at their age.

[wvcbxl]

The Future of US Soccer, part 1: http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/30545/the-future-of-u-s-soccer-part-i-the-high-school-debate

 

This clip struck me:

Two of the three Canadian MLS clubs, Montreal Impact and Toronto F.C., do not field academy youth teams

 

:shock:

As far as I know, the fielding of youth teams is mandatory in our FA.

The downside of having a good youth system is that nowadays in Europe, rich Premiership clubs are poaching away 15yr olds (like Musonda Jr from Anderlecht recently) all over the continent.

 

 

ETA: BTW, Dutch striker Sherjill MacDonald is moving to Chicago Fire from Beerschot (that's a club from Antwerp in the Belgian premier league).

[Guest]

That's interesting, MacDonald certainly seems a different type of acquisition than their pursuit of Shevchenko.

[wolf stansson]

As far as I know, the fielding of youth teams is mandatory in our FA.

The downside of having a good youth system is that nowadays in Europe, rich Premiership clubs are poaching away 15yr olds (like Musonda Jr from Anderlecht recently) all over the continent.

Not only do some teams not have academies, but the ones that do have nothing as structured as the historic leagues in Europe and even South America. We're trying to catch up, but in the hierarchy of needs to keep the league growing, they've just in the last few years moved past survival and are now able to invest in infrastructure like state of the art stadiums and academy teams. It's a long way away from Europe's system, but it's getting better. Slowly.

[shnsajax]

As far as I know, the fielding of youth teams is mandatory in our FA.

The downside of having a good youth system is that nowadays in Europe, rich Premiership clubs are poaching away 15yr olds (like Musonda Jr from Anderlecht recently) all over the continent.

Not only do some teams not have academies, but the ones that do have nothing as structured as the historic leagues in Europe and even South America. We're trying to catch up, but in the hierarchy of needs to keep the league growing, they've just in the last few years moved past survival and are now able to invest in infrastructure like state of the art stadiums and academy teams. It's a long way away from Europe's system, but it's getting better. Slowly.

 

I can't speak to the quality of the FC Dallas youth team but the quantity is there. Plano was just named the 2nd biggest soccer city in US which is in north Dallas. They have no reason not to really build up their academy.

[wolf stansson]

Van Persie has left Arsenal.

[USSoccer]

Van Persie has left Arsenal.

 

Wow.

 

This makes Clint to Arsenal a real, real possibility

[Garwilly]

Van Persie has left Arsenal.

 

Wow.

 

This makes Clint to Arsenal a real, real possibility

 

My shirt order gets placed the same day.

[shnsajax]

Where has it said this?

[jersey cubs fan]

futbol came out of the closet

 

http://www.theonion.com/video/soccer-officially-announces-it-is-gay,17603/?utm_source=D&utm_medium=social&utm_content=2&utm_campaign=twitter

[Mark Priors Calves]

This game stinks

[jersey cubs fan]

This game stinks

 

it really did

[UMFan83]

Spain-Germany will be a great final (Italy isnt winning)

[shnsajax]

I really really really really hate stutter-steps when taking a penalty kick.

[USSoccer]

What a shite game. How does CR7 not take that 4th PK?

[Mark Priors Calves]

The aggressiveness of the Italians pays off!

[Mark Priors Calves]

WOW!

[Guest]

Gross.

[jersey cubs fan]

balotelli's for everybody