Dusty talks about youth movement

[jmajew]

 

But are we the majority of the fanbase? I think we're the somewhat vocal minority.

 

I think the majority of Cub fans are the sort that call sports radio and complain about Ramirez's hustle, Wood and Prior being soft, and yearn for a fire and brimstone manager. They believe in clutchiness and old baseball mystique about pitching, defense, and fundamentals. They understand Baker is a problem, but on a very basic level. They fail to comprehend the enormity of the wreck he (and Hendry) have made this team. They don't recognize the uselessness of half the players on the roster. They don't understand that you can have a $90m payroll and waste half of it away on terrible baseball players, and it won't do any good. They LOVE Cesar Izturis and his RBI-creating glove. They complain about the Trib's "lack of committment to winning", when they've increased payroll a ton since the mid 1990's and spend over $100m in 2004 on a team that by all rights should have gone to the playoffs. They don't understand that it was an unreasonable workload on top of flawed mechanics, and not a lack of guts, or a stubbornness to alter said mechanics that led to Wood's shoulder exploding. They look 16 blocks south or whatever it is and see Guillen and a World Series, and think that what they need is a team of grinderballers who play "smart" ball.

 

That majority would read Bruce's column with those stats and either not grasp the signifigance of it, or would dismiss it out of hand because prospects' numbers in the minors don't mean anything, good or bad.

 

I love Bruce. I respect him and appreciate the advocacy he shows on our behalf, but the hopelessness of it all it just mind blowing.

 

I'd rather have an interviewer point this crap out live, and make Baker or Hendry respond. Get tape of one of them stammering, grasping for a response. THAT's what I want. Calling their idiocy out in print isn't helping. Bruce has been doing it for nearly 2 years now, and perceptions haven't drastically changed. Just, anybody, PLEASE grap a stat sheet before an interview or press conference.

 

I'm a firm believer that fundamentals are neccessary to win. I believe in clutch hitting, and I believe in giving it your all 100% of the time. When Ramirez doesn't hustle I get upset. The reason being that I believe everyone should always give it their best effort no matter what. It is just like any other job. I think everyone should give 100% no matter what. Whether you work at McDonalds, in an office, as a salesman, or play pro sports I think you should give your whole heart all the time.

 

If you look at all the truly great players in any sport they all wore their hearts on their sleeves. Brett Favre(I hate him but he does), Cal Ripken Jr, Griffey Jr (remember when he ran into the wall catching a ball and broke his wrist), Jordan would play with a fever and still have games of his life. I hate guys who don't play up to their potential because they don't have the motivation.

 

 

First off, I hope my post didn't come off as being too caustic. My 3 week old has been keeping me up all week, so I'm a bit edgy. I shouldn't generalize like I did.

 

My main point was that the majority of the fanbase has not correctly identified the reasons why our team isn't good. They have an idea, albiet a very basic, general one, but until they realize that Ramirez's hustle is an annoying but not fatal flaw, or that it's not that Dusty should be fired not because he doesn't yell enough, but because he's a really bad manager with glaring tactical and strategic flaws, we're not going to see any change come about. MacPhail probably hears the complaining of the fanbase as being indicative of a fanbase upset about a losing season, and not a failed direction. That's a problem. This organization is pointed in the completely wrong direction.

 

First off congrats, second no offense taken I just have little thing about people not doing their best at all times. Third, I think all people really want is a manager who is willing to hold their players accountable for their actions. As far as I can tell Baker only rips the players he doesn't like and lets the ones he does like to get a free pass. Personally I like fiery managers. Even Joe Girardi pulls players aside during the game to reprimand them. I love that kind of stuff. I believe it gets the best out of people. You have to show that you are not scared to be harsh but that you also have their back. Just as an example, a good boss at any business is willing to yell and scold their employees when they make a mistake but they are also willing to praise them and when something bad happens, say a family member gets sick or something, they go out of their way to help out the family. Basically all managers need is repsect from their players, they shouldn't be friends with them. The tactics is an entirely different breed and I think we can all agree that Baker is horrible when is comes to that. Like over using Zambrano, No pitcher should throw more than 100 pitches more than 2 starts in a row, imho.

 

I Hope that made sense

[cubsjunky95]

Maybe Bruce Miles will read this and call Dusty out in the Daily Herald.

 

That would be fun.

 

Rocket, you know as well as I do that this management team doesn't give a rat crap about what anyone thinks outside their inner circle of scouts and coaches.

 

God, being a Cubs fan absolutely sucks.

 

Wow I couldn't have said it better myself. We give so much to this organization and they give us a 48-66 team.

[soccer10k]

Where's my mouthwash?

[Banedon]

You don’t get to see all the minor-league guys. You see the reports. You see the stats. But you don’t know who’s ready to play big-league, winning baseball.

 

“The stats don’t always tell, if you’re fundamentally sound, if you receive instruction and retain what you’ve received. What I see, if you want to win, is a continued mixture (of kids and veterans). A lot of the youth are here now because of injuries to others.”

[USSoccer]

You don’t get to see all the minor-league guys. You see the reports. You see the stats. But you don’t know who’s ready to play big-league, winning baseball.

 

“The stats don’t always tell, if you’re fundamentally sound, if you receive instruction and retain what you’ve received. What I see, if you want to win, is a continued mixture (of kids and veterans). A lot of the youth are here now because of injuries to others.”

 

Just shoot me...

[CubColtPacer]

 

But are we the majority of the fanbase? I think we're the somewhat vocal minority.

 

I think the majority of Cub fans are the sort that call sports radio and complain about Ramirez's hustle, Wood and Prior being soft, and yearn for a fire and brimstone manager. They believe in clutchiness and old baseball mystique about pitching, defense, and fundamentals. They understand Baker is a problem, but on a very basic level. They fail to comprehend the enormity of the wreck he (and Hendry) have made this team. They don't recognize the uselessness of half the players on the roster. They don't understand that you can have a $90m payroll and waste half of it away on terrible baseball players, and it won't do any good. They LOVE Cesar Izturis and his RBI-creating glove. They complain about the Trib's "lack of committment to winning", when they've increased payroll a ton since the mid 1990's and spend over $100m in 2004 on a team that by all rights should have gone to the playoffs. They don't understand that it was an unreasonable workload on top of flawed mechanics, and not a lack of guts, or a stubbornness to alter said mechanics that led to Wood's shoulder exploding. They look 16 blocks south or whatever it is and see Guillen and a World Series, and think that what they need is a team of grinderballers who play "smart" ball.

 

That majority would read Bruce's column with those stats and either not grasp the signifigance of it, or would dismiss it out of hand because prospects' numbers in the minors don't mean anything, good or bad.

 

I love Bruce. I respect him and appreciate the advocacy he shows on our behalf, but the hopelessness of it all it just mind blowing.

 

I'd rather have an interviewer point this crap out live, and make Baker or Hendry respond. Get tape of one of them stammering, grasping for a response. THAT's what I want. Calling their idiocy out in print isn't helping. Bruce has been doing it for nearly 2 years now, and perceptions haven't drastically changed. Just, anybody, PLEASE grap a stat sheet before an interview or press conference.

 

I'm a firm believer that fundamentals are neccessary to win. I believe in clutch hitting, and I believe in giving it your all 100% of the time. When Ramirez doesn't hustle I get upset. The reason being that I believe everyone should always give it their best effort no matter what. It is just like any other job. I think everyone should give 100% no matter what. Whether you work at McDonalds, in an office, as a salesman, or play pro sports I think you should give your whole heart all the time.

 

If you look at all the truly great players in any sport they all wore their hearts on their sleeves. Brett Favre(I hate him but he does), Cal Ripken Jr, Griffey Jr (remember when he ran into the wall catching a ball and broke his wrist), Jordan would play with a fever and still have games of his life. I hate guys who don't play up to their potential because they don't have the motivation.

 

 

First off, I hope my post didn't come off as being too caustic. My 3 week old has been keeping me up all week, so I'm a bit edgy. I shouldn't generalize like I did.

 

My main point was that the majority of the fanbase has not correctly identified the reasons why our team isn't good. They have an idea, albiet a very basic, general one, but until they realize that Ramirez's hustle is an annoying but not fatal flaw, or that it's not that Dusty should be fired not because he doesn't yell enough, but because he's a really bad manager with glaring tactical and strategic flaws, we're not going to see any change come about. MacPhail probably hears the complaining of the fanbase as being indicative of a fanbase upset about a losing season, and not a failed direction. That's a problem. This organization is pointed in the completely wrong direction.

 

I'm not sure that most fans think that Ramirez's hustle is a fatal flaw in the Cubs winning. For fans who don't follow things like we do though, Ramirez's lack of hustle is one thing that makes them not want to be fans anymore, even if the team is winning. The Pacers of the past 2 years are a great example of this for people. After the brawl, the team played its heart out and snuck into the playoffs. The city embraced the team, and was behind them all the way. The next year, once again the team snuck into the playoffs, but there was a great deal of things like arguing with officials and not playing your heart out. The result was that the fanbase went way down even with the same number of wins. I think fans complain about Ramirez's hustle not because they think if he hustles it will magically lead to 10 more wins, but that a great deal of fans feel they would rather have a team that they feel they can support completely rather than a win at all cost mentality. Fans who follow things as much as we do on this board generally realize that we can't do anything about Ramirez's hustle, so we'd rather concentrate on the changes that would help the team win first.

[biittner77]

Quote:

"I can't see a prolonged [youth] movement," Baker said. "You have to have a number of youth ready up and down your system to be prolonged. I know something about our system, but I can't answer that because I don't know everything about [it]. I just see reports, see the stats, but you don't know who's ready to play big-league baseball. The stats don't always tell."

 

A lot going on in this quote. On the one hand, Baker has a built in excuse never to play young players because he hasn't seen them. As amanager he'll likely never have time to see any ML games.

 

A response straight from the Joe Morgan Bible of archaic baseball dogma.

 

On the other hand, Baker is right in that there really aren't any position players in the high minors that are screaming for a promotion.

 

Baker might handle Pie's September callup well but for all the wrong reasons. Pie will be called up and get a really good seat to some MLB games. This should give him a feel for what it's like which will hopefully make him more comfortable when he does get called up next year.

[ltb]

I'm not sure that most fans think that Ramirez's hustle is a fatal flaw in the Cubs winning. For fans who don't follow things like we do though, Ramirez's lack of hustle is one thing that makes them not want to be fans anymore, even if the team is winning. The Pacers of the past 2 years are a great example of this for people. After the brawl, the team played its heart out and snuck into the playoffs. The city embraced the team, and was behind them all the way. The next year, once again the team snuck into the playoffs, but there was a great deal of things like arguing with officials and not playing your heart out. The result was that the fanbase went way down even with the same number of wins. I think fans complain about Ramirez's hustle not because they think if he hustles it will magically lead to 10 more wins, but that a great deal of fans feel they would rather have a team that they feel they can support completely rather than a win at all cost mentality. Fans who follow things as much as we do on this board generally realize that we can't do anything about Ramirez's hustle, so we'd rather concentrate on the changes that would help the team win first.

 

the cubs fan base is not the pacers fan base. wrigley field will always be full.

[CubColtPacer]

I'm not sure that most fans think that Ramirez's hustle is a fatal flaw in the Cubs winning. For fans who don't follow things like we do though, Ramirez's lack of hustle is one thing that makes them not want to be fans anymore, even if the team is winning. The Pacers of the past 2 years are a great example of this for people. After the brawl, the team played its heart out and snuck into the playoffs. The city embraced the team, and was behind them all the way. The next year, once again the team snuck into the playoffs, but there was a great deal of things like arguing with officials and not playing your heart out. The result was that the fanbase went way down even with the same number of wins. I think fans complain about Ramirez's hustle not because they think if he hustles it will magically lead to 10 more wins, but that a great deal of fans feel they would rather have a team that they feel they can support completely rather than a win at all cost mentality. Fans who follow things as much as we do on this board generally realize that we can't do anything about Ramirez's hustle, so we'd rather concentrate on the changes that would help the team win first.

 

the cubs fan base is not the pacers fan base. wrigley field will always be full.

 

Wrigley will always be full, sure-because going to Wrigley is an experience, even when the team is not liked that year for whatever reason. The main place where you'll see it is in how many people are watching the games on TV-it probably will not get to as dramatic of effect as it did with the Pacers, because I think it is a great deal easier to tell when a basketball player is not giving any effort than a baseball player, but it does affect many fans reactions to the games.

[abuck1220]

You don’t get to see all the minor-league guys. You see the reports. You see the stats. But you don’t know who’s ready to play big-league, winning baseball.

 

“The stats don’t always tell, if you’re fundamentally sound, if you receive instruction and retain what you’ve received. What I see, if you want to win, is a continued mixture (of kids and veterans). A lot of the youth are here now because of injuries to others.”

 

he does realize, of course, that his big league team is far from fundamentally sound, right? i can't even believe he'd have the nerve to say that after yesterday's game (assuming that's when he said it).

[Guest]

If I were a minor league manager, organization scout or roving instructor I'd be pissed right now. It is their job to determine if a kid is "big league ready" and if he "receives instructions well" and report that to Hendry and Baker. Dusty obviously disregards their input unless he can see it with his own eyes. Doesn't he get scouting reports from Fleita? Or does he just get a stat sheet?

 

 

IMO, he thinks we're all stupid by spinning this crap. When they're considering bringing up a player, you can bet that he gets a full, detailed scouting report on the strengths and weaknesses of a player, has access to the minor league manager, instructors, scouts, etc. to get feedback on the player.

 

 

He's just being a condescending jerk when he tries to spin that he's seen nothing but stats on the minor league guys.

[goonys evil twin]

For fans who don't follow things like we do though, Ramirez's lack of hustle is one thing that makes them not want to be fans anymore, even if the team is winning. The Pacers of the past 2 years are a great example of this for people. After the brawl, the team played its heart out and snuck into the playoffs. The city embraced the team, and was behind them all the way. The next year, once again the team snuck into the playoffs, but there was a great deal of things like arguing with officials and not playing your heart out. The result was that the fanbase went way down even with the same number of wins. I think fans complain about Ramirez's hustle not because they think if he hustles it will magically lead to 10 more wins, but that a great deal of fans feel they would rather have a team that they feel they can support completely rather than a win at all cost mentality. Fans who follow things as much as we do on this board generally realize that we can't do anything about Ramirez's hustle, so we'd rather concentrate on the changes that would help the team win first.

 

the cubs fan base is not the pacers fan base. wrigley field will always be full.

 

Wrigley will always be full, sure-because going to Wrigley is an experience, even when the team is not liked that year for whatever reason.

 

Do people think that Chicago Cubs history dates back to 2003?

 

Wrigley Field will not always be full. It has not always been full. It was extremely easy to get tickets in the 90's, and the park was quite frequently only half full. The excitement of '98, along with a general improvement in all baseball attendance, got people's attention. But between 2000-2002, tickets were still easy to come by. The failures of the years following 1998 drove down demand. 2003, and the very new idea of good young players that could win games and create a consistently successful franchise, brought about equally unprecedented demand. Tickets have been selling out quickly in February. But continued failure by the team will eat away at that demand, and empty seats will continue to rise.

[BigbadB]

Extensions for everyone!

[Banedon]

If I were a minor league manager, organization scout or roving instructor I'd be pissed right now. It is their job to determine if a kid is "big league ready" and if he "receives instructions well" and report that to Hendry and Baker. Dusty obviously disregards their input unless he can see it with his own eyes. Doesn't he get scouting reports from Fleita? Or does he just get a stat sheet?

 

 

IMO, he thinks we're all stupid by spinning this crap. When they're considering bringing up a player, you can bet that he gets a full, detailed scouting report on the strengths and weaknesses of a player, has access to the minor league manager, instructors, scouts, etc. to get feedback on the player.

 

 

He's just being a condescending jerk when he tries to spin that he's seen nothing but stats on the minor league guys.

 

I just don't see how anyone involved in this entire organization can just allow this to continue on unchanged. It's completely unfathomable to me.

 

It's like you park your car on a hill, and get out and it starts rolling because you forgot to put it in gear, but rather than try to get back in and stop it, you let it slowly gain momentum and just hope it stops on it's own eventually in a perfect spot so it's undamaged, when reality is that it's probably going to end up hitting a telephone pole.

 

Man I'm coming up with some crazy analogies lately.

[CubColtPacer]

For fans who don't follow things like we do though, Ramirez's lack of hustle is one thing that makes them not want to be fans anymore, even if the team is winning. The Pacers of the past 2 years are a great example of this for people. After the brawl, the team played its heart out and snuck into the playoffs. The city embraced the team, and was behind them all the way. The next year, once again the team snuck into the playoffs, but there was a great deal of things like arguing with officials and not playing your heart out. The result was that the fanbase went way down even with the same number of wins. I think fans complain about Ramirez's hustle not because they think if he hustles it will magically lead to 10 more wins, but that a great deal of fans feel they would rather have a team that they feel they can support completely rather than a win at all cost mentality. Fans who follow things as much as we do on this board generally realize that we can't do anything about Ramirez's hustle, so we'd rather concentrate on the changes that would help the team win first.

 

the cubs fan base is not the pacers fan base. wrigley field will always be full.

 

Wrigley will always be full, sure-because going to Wrigley is an experience, even when the team is not liked that year for whatever reason.

 

Do people think that Chicago Cubs history dates back to 2003?

 

Wrigley Field will not always be full. It has not always been full. It was extremely easy to get tickets in the 90's, and the park was quite frequently only half full. The excitement of '98, along with a general improvement in all baseball attendance, got people's attention. But between 2000-2002, tickets were still easy to come by. The failures of the years following 1998 drove down demand. 2003, and the very new idea of good young players that could win games and create a consistently successful franchise, brought about equally unprecedented demand. Tickets have been selling out quickly in February. But continued failure by the team will eat away at that demand, and empty seats will continue to rise.

 

I'm sorry-I should have said it better-more people will come out to Wrigley then at other places for the experience, but you are right-even at Wrigley, the signs of dissatisfaction with teams have been apparent in some years.

[CubinNY]

If I were a minor league manager, organization scout or roving instructor I'd be pissed right now. It is their job to determine if a kid is "big league ready" and if he "receives instructions well" and report that to Hendry and Baker. Dusty obviously disregards their input unless he can see it with his own eyes. Doesn't he get scouting reports from Fleita? Or does he just get a stat sheet?

 

 

IMO, he thinks we're all stupid by spinning this crap. When they're considering bringing up a player, you can bet that he gets a full, detailed scouting report on the strengths and weaknesses of a player, has access to the minor league manager, instructors, scouts, etc. to get feedback on the player.

 

 

He's just being a condescending jerk when he tries to spin that he's seen nothing but stats on the minor league guys.

 

I just don't see how anyone involved in this entire organization can just allow this to continue on unchanged. It's completely unfathomable to me.

 

It's like you park your car on a hill, and get out and it starts rolling because you forgot to put it in gear, but rather than try to get back in and stop it, you let it slowly gain momentum and just hope it stops on it's own eventually in a perfect spot so it's undamaged, when reality is that it's probably going to end up hitting a telephone pole.

 

Man I'm coming up with some crazy analogies lately.

 

I think they (Hendry, Hughes, etc.) have as much contempt for the media as Dusty. I think they don't really care what Dusty says because of that contempt. I'm sure they are nice. The kind of nice I get when I talk to a good ole' boy in South Alabama. They tolerate me, but I will never understand becuase I'm a Yankee. Just the same way a beat reporter can't understand becuase he never played The Game.

 

Look at Dusty's innane comments throughout his tenure. From Black players playing better in the heat and on and on.

[3Dog]

MacPhail probably hears the complaining of the fanbase as being indicative of a fanbase upset about a losing season, and not a failed direction.

 

Very, very well said!

[LuckyPup]

My problem with Dusty is he is still around. Why? if you are not going to give him an extension then what is the point of him hanging around-it is a waste of time- We have heard several players and even Hendry quoted as having NO chance of reaching the postseason-so why continue this failure? i dont understand the logic- Dusty's lineups and constant micro managing is a complete waste of time for this flawed organization-and Dusty being around hurts us not only now, but the offseason as well- here are few things Hendry should mandate if he keeps Dusty around-

 

1. Murton should play EVERYDAY from here out-if anything he increases his trade value immensely if he continues and hits 300 with a 380OBP-other teams value OBP so they would value Murton-but not if he is treated like a "bench" guy-his cvalue is that of a starter-period.

 

2. Rusch gets no more starts- the rotation should go 6 man to save Z's arm or at the very least should NEVER go to a 4 man-minimum of 5 man- i dont care about days off -save your arms for next year-

Z

Prior

Hill

Marmol

Guzman

Marshall

 

All these guys should get starts the rest of the year-out of Marshall, Guzman, hill, and Marmol someone will increase their trade value for a possible deal in the offseason- or cement themselves as the best young starting core in the bigs...except for maybe Detroit-

 

3. Cedeno and Cesar should split time at SS- When Cedeno plays ss then Theriot plays 2nd- when you play Cesar then Cedeno should play 2nd- NEIFI SHOULD NOT START UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE-PERIOD. its not like he isnt a known commodity-he is terrible and everyone besides dusty knows this so with Dusty at the helm he is stunting the growth of the org. by taking away at bats for Theriot or Cedeno and giving them to the dufus-

 

The bottom line is Dusty needs to go-NOW, the more time Hendry waits the more questions we have going into next year and more unproven commodities in our young arms and young players because Dusty refuses to play them regularly-

 

that is why i want Dusty gone, because the only hope we have is next year-if he isnt part of the the solution then he needs to go-i think he has proven himself to be a very big part of the problem-it is inexcusable that he is still in the bench-

[frostwyrm]

If I were a minor league manager, organization scout or roving instructor I'd be pissed right now. It is their job to determine if a kid is "big league ready" and if he "receives instructions well" and report that to Hendry and Baker. Dusty obviously disregards their input unless he can see it with his own eyes. Doesn't he get scouting reports from Fleita? Or does he just get a stat sheet?

 

 

IMO, he thinks we're all stupid by spinning this crap. When they're considering bringing up a player, you can bet that he gets a full, detailed scouting report on the strengths and weaknesses of a player, has access to the minor league manager, instructors, scouts, etc. to get feedback on the player.

 

 

He's just being a condescending jerk when he tries to spin that he's seen nothing but stats on the minor league guys.

 

To be fair Dusty did mention that he sees reports on players, unfortunately the rest of his comment makes it plain that he doesn't put any stock in them. May as well save some trees and stop printing scouting reports that will only end up in Dusty's circular file.

[C.C.]

Do people think that Chicago Cubs history dates back to 2003?

 

Wrigley Field will not always be full. It has not always been full. It was extremely easy to get tickets in the 90's, and the park was quite frequently only half full. The excitement of '98, along with a general improvement in all baseball attendance, got people's attention. But between 2000-2002, tickets were still easy to come by. The failures of the years following 1998 drove down demand. 2003, and the very new idea of good young players that could win games and create a consistently successful franchise, brought about equally unprecedented demand. Tickets have been selling out quickly in February. But continued failure by the team will eat away at that demand, and empty seats will continue to rise.

 

You are right if they continue this dreadful play attenedence will go down, but all the Cubs have to do is sniff first place in any given month and fans will pack the place in.

[NorthsideAvenger]

Why do the Cubs still have the Paris Hilton of managers still managing their team?

 

Oh, that's right, that's because they have the Lindsay Lohan of GMing still calling the shots.

[frostwyrm]

"The bigger question," Baker said, "is who is left to call up?"

 

Well, what about these numbers, Dusty? Is there merit in these numbers?

 

.289/.372/.556 21 HRs 42BB/98SO in 342 Triple A at bats

 

Those would be the numbers of Michael Restovich who is not even on the 40 man roster anymore.

 

Seems like he could platoon with Jacque in RF while the Murton/Pagan platoon could be kept in LF. Oh and I guess it is possible to not start Pierre occasionally moving Pagan to CF for a game here and there for the remainder of the season.

 

Way too many K's. Dusty and Jim like guys who put the ball in play.

[CuseCubFan69]

Dusty's either a bold-faced liar or really ignorant.

 

You decide!

 

I smell a Fox reality show coming out of this!

 

Do we have a Dusty translator on this site? I took out some tapes out of the library but I couldn't get past the fish anologies.

[NCCubFan]

To be fair Dusty did mention that he sees reports on players, unfortunately the rest of his comment makes it plain that he doesn't put any stock in them. May as well save some trees and stop printing scouting reports that will only end up in Dusty's circular file.

He probably reads them for entertainment the way most people read the comics.

[CuseCubFan69]

To be fair Dusty did mention that he sees reports on players, unfortunately the rest of his comment makes it plain that he doesn't put any stock in them. May as well save some trees and stop printing scouting reports that will only end up in Dusty's circular file.

He probably reads them for entertainment the way most people read the comics.

 

Probably.

 

Ute....what the heck is a ute?