Has Hill turned the corner?

[Sammy Sofa]

Too small a sample size - It would be remarkable for a guy with only a couple pitches to be able to succeed in the ML.

 

That said, of course I'm happy to see what he's done recently, I just think it's way too soon to think he's turned any kind of corner.

 

Yes, but the sample size was also too small for him to be declared a bust, as many were doing after a few poor outings last year and this year.

 

When he's had as many good outings as he's had jaw-droppingly bad ones, then it'll be safe to say he's "turned the corner."

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Too small a sample size - It would be remarkable for a guy with only a couple pitches to be able to succeed in the ML.

 

That said, of course I'm happy to see what he's done recently, I just think it's way too soon to think he's turned any kind of corner.

 

There are a few starting pitchers in the big leagues who have succeeded with only 2 pitches. And, of course, he has 3 pitches.

[abuck1220]

Too small a sample size - It would be remarkable for a guy with only a couple pitches to be able to succeed in the ML.

 

That said, of course I'm happy to see what he's done recently, I just think it's way too soon to think he's turned any kind of corner.

 

Yes, but the sample size was also too small for him to be declared a bust, as many were doing after a few poor outings last year and this year.

 

When he's had as many good outings as he's had jaw-droppingly bad ones, then it'll be safe to say he's "turned the corner."

 

it's getting close.

[Sammy Sofa]

Too small a sample size - It would be remarkable for a guy with only a couple pitches to be able to succeed in the ML.

 

That said, of course I'm happy to see what he's done recently, I just think it's way too soon to think he's turned any kind of corner.

 

Yes, but the sample size was also too small for him to be declared a bust, as many were doing after a few poor outings last year and this year.

 

When he's had as many good outings as he's had jaw-droppingly bad ones, then it'll be safe to say he's "turned the corner."

 

it's getting close.

 

Hopefully. I just hope we don't run out of wood in the meantime...

[A New Era]

Too small a sample size - It would be remarkable for a guy with only a couple pitches to be able to succeed in the ML.

 

That said, of course I'm happy to see what he's done recently, I just think it's way too soon to think he's turned any kind of corner.

 

Speaking literally. He did "turn a corner". It was his first ML win, back to back great performances. I think the "corner" was getting his first win, pitching like he is able to do, and get the confidence to do so. He's got that now. He doesn't look scared anymore. I always saw fear in his face, and hesitation on the mound. Not these last 2 games. He's still got more to prove. But he has, turned the corner so to speak. .

[MPrior]

It's very true that it's far too early to definitively say whether he's "turned the corner" or not, but I sure hope so. His numbers at AAA the last couple years make it clear that he has it in him to dominate. So if he has turned a corner, so to speak, he might turn out as a solid #2 for a few years.

 

Regardless of whether he's turned the corner or not, though, I still think he should be starting every fifth day for the rest of the season, no questions asked.

[NorthsideAvenger]

Too small a sample size - It would be remarkable for a guy with only a couple pitches to be able to succeed in the ML.

 

That said, of course I'm happy to see what he's done recently, I just think it's way too soon to think he's turned any kind of corner.

 

There are a few starting pitchers in the big leagues who have succeeded with only 2 pitches. And, of course, he has 3 pitches.

 

Technically, he has four. He has the 88-93 mpg FB, the 12-6 curveball, the 9-3 ish sweeping curve, I've seen him throw (or is that a slurve?) and a work in progress change up.

 

I would love to see Hill developed consistanices with his secondary pitches. Everybody knows he has the big overhand curve, he loves to use, but if he can improve his change-up, and his sweeping curve to a point, they become atleast decent options for out pitches, then I say he is "turning the corner."

 

With that said, these last two starts PROVES he can pitch at this level. Adn the possible thought of a ALL HOMEGROWN talent in the rotation (Prior/Zambrano and any combo of /Marshall/Hill/Guzman/Ryu/Gallagher) is awfully tempting.

 

I hope Hill keeps doing his thing, cause Hill and Marshall would be PERFECT compliments to the hard-throwing Z/Prior/Guzman/Marmol.

[A New Era]

Regardless of whether he's turned the corner or not, though, I still think he should be starting every fifth day for the rest of the season, no questions asked.

 

With Maddux gone, that's even more likely now. :D

 

Even IF Dusty wants to be stupid and waste a start by throwing Rusch out there. Marshall is hurt right now. And I think that Hill has made it more likely he'll get starts over Rusch, for now.

[DesMoinesCub]

For a long time, the Cubs had difficulty finding one "quality" left handed starting pitcher. With Hill and Marshall, that could give them two. Now, I am not saying that either Hill or Marshall are quality yet, but Marshall hasn't looked terrible this year and Hill has looked great these last two starts.

 

I remember reading somewhere about Hill trying to develop a better change up. I think it was after he was sent down last time that he had a quote that he needed a better change. Couldn't find any link to back this up, but if memory is correct...

[CuseCubFan69]

I think he's a kid on track and will have his ups and downs. I think what will really matter is how he handles the downs....and how Baker handles them as well.

[Warpticon]

Too small a sample size - It would be remarkable for a guy with only a couple pitches to be able to succeed in the ML.

 

That said, of course I'm happy to see what he's done recently, I just think it's way too soon to think he's turned any kind of corner.

 

There are a few starting pitchers in the big leagues who have succeeded with only 2 pitches. And, of course, he has 3 pitches.

 

Technically, he has four. He has the 88-93 mpg FB, the 12-6 curveball, the 9-3 ish sweeping curve, I've seen him throw (or is that a slurve?) and a work in progress change up.

 

I would love to see Hill developed consistanices with his secondary pitches. Everybody knows he has the big overhand curve, he loves to use, but if he can improve his change-up, and his sweeping curve to a point, they become atleast decent options for out pitches, then I say he is "turning the corner."

 

With that said, these last two starts PROVES he can pitch at this level. Adn the possible thought of a ALL HOMEGROWN talent in the rotation (Prior/Zambrano and any combo of /Marshall/Hill/Guzman/Ryu/Gallagher) is awfully tempting.

 

I hope Hill keeps doing his thing, cause Hill and Marshall would be PERFECT compliments to the hard-throwing Z/Prior/Guzman/Marmol.

 

I should ask Rich if I can ride his fastball to work! I'm not getting that kind of gas milage.

[CuseCubFan69]

Too small a sample size - It would be remarkable for a guy with only a couple pitches to be able to succeed in the ML.

 

That said, of course I'm happy to see what he's done recently, I just think it's way too soon to think he's turned any kind of corner.

 

There are a few starting pitchers in the big leagues who have succeeded with only 2 pitches. And, of course, he has 3 pitches.

 

Technically, he has four. He has the 88-93 mpg FB, the 12-6 curveball, the 9-3 ish sweeping curve, I've seen him throw (or is that a slurve?) and a work in progress change up.

 

I would love to see Hill developed consistanices with his secondary pitches. Everybody knows he has the big overhand curve, he loves to use, but if he can improve his change-up, and his sweeping curve to a point, they become atleast decent options for out pitches, then I say he is "turning the corner."

 

With that said, these last two starts PROVES he can pitch at this level. Adn the possible thought of a ALL HOMEGROWN talent in the rotation (Prior/Zambrano and any combo of /Marshall/Hill/Guzman/Ryu/Gallagher) is awfully tempting.

 

I hope Hill keeps doing his thing, cause Hill and Marshall would be PERFECT compliments to the hard-throwing Z/Prior/Guzman/Marmol.

 

I should ask Rich if I can ride his fastball to work! I'm not getting that kind of gas milage.

 

Ha....he's using one of those scooters and that's probably why the Cubs didn't call him up, not manly enough to drive a Harley.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Split the Cedeno stuff into its own thread...

[badgercub]

Location, location, location. Hill's stuff is good enough, always has been. In his other stints with the Cub's his biggest problem has been location. He would fall behind and walk too many batters, when you do that too often even the worst hitter in the ML's can sit on your fastball and you will get hammered. Hill has settled down and has the confidence to go after hitters and not try to nibble and be "too perfect". He is getting ahead in the counts and with that curve is able to get hitters to chase balls off the plate when he gets ahead in the count.

[ConstableRabbit]

I don't think anyone doubted Hill had the ability to succeed at this level

 

Quite a few did doubt his ability to succeed, saying, amongst other things, that he only had one pitch and that his FB wasn't good enough.

 

^That's me! :lol:

 

However, I did dare Rich to prove me wrong. I hope he can continue this success.

[fiver]

Location, location, location. Hill's stuff is good enough, always has been. In his other stints with the Cub's his biggest problem has been location. He would fall behind and walk too many batters, when you do that too often even the worst hitter in the ML's can sit on your fastball and you will get hammered. Hill has settled down and has the confidence to go after hitters and not try to nibble and be "too perfect". He is getting ahead in the counts and with that curve is able to get hitters to chase balls off the plate when he gets ahead in the count.

 

Agreed...He is spotting his pitches much better over the last two games and even more so in yesterday's outing. That said, he also received a lot of help from Pittsburg yesterday. Not every team is going to fan on that chest high fastball. Better players are going to lay off that pitch and challenge Rich to get them out with something in the strike zone.

[jjgman21]

Location, location, location. Hill's stuff is good enough, always has been. In his other stints with the Cub's his biggest problem has been location. He would fall behind and walk too many batters, when you do that too often even the worst hitter in the ML's can sit on your fastball and you will get hammered. Hill has settled down and has the confidence to go after hitters and not try to nibble and be "too perfect". He is getting ahead in the counts and with that curve is able to get hitters to chase balls off the plate when he gets ahead in the count.

 

Agreed...He is spotting his pitches much better over the last two games and even more so in yesterday's outing. That said, he also received a lot of help from Pittsburg yesterday. Not every team is going to fan on that chest high fastball. Better players are going to lay off that pitch and challenge Rich to get them out with something in the strike zone.

 

I think he needs to learn to throw his fastball for strikes low in the zone, but if set up correctly alot of (even) major league hitters will wave at that high fastball because it comes out of the same window as his curve when he throws it for strikes.

 

I think Hill's problems have been mostly mental though. for instance, he looked unhittable in the first four batters against St. Louis, then Rolen battled him in a nice AB, and he lost all composure. I also think Rothschild and his philisophy of never trusting one's own stuff and getting everyone out with pitches outside of the zone is not condusive to a staff full of guys 27 and younger.

[YearofDaCubs]

I didn't see Hill pitch the last time out but for this organization's sake I'm hoping that I'm wrong and he has turned the corner. I'm still skeptical but I do want the kid to succeed.

[CubsWin]

I think he needs to learn to throw his fastball for strikes low in the zone, but if set up correctly alot of (even) major league hitters will wave at that high fastball because it comes out of the same window as his curve when he throws it for strikes.

 

I think Hill's problems have been mostly mental though. for instance, he looked unhittable in the first four batters against St. Louis, then Rolen battled him in a nice AB, and he lost all composure.

I think this is an accurate understanding of what's been going on with Hill. That high fastball comes out of the same spot as his curve and if they are sitting on his breaking stuff, it is going to be tough for them to lay off the high fastball. Its not that batters were helping Hill out the past couple of games by swinging at pitches out of the zone. He was making them swing at pitches out of the zone. And, yes, he is much more effective when he keeps his fastball down. He was doing so quite a bit against the Pirates and he was getting a lot of called strikes and getting ahead in the count that way.

 

I've always thought Hill's problem was confidence at the major league level. Having this success will help, but he'll need a lot more of it to completely "turn the corner" and put those doubts out of his mind for good. I believe if he simply does the same thing with the same ease of motion and confidence that he had at Iowa, that he'll be fine. Better than fine, he'll be really good.

 

I also think Rothschild and his philisophy of never trusting one's own stuff and getting everyone out with pitches outside of the zone is not condusive to a staff full of guys 27 and younger.

I agree that that would be a problematic philosophy for young pitchers, but I've never heard that Rothschild preaches never trusting one's own stuff and never getting batters out with pitches out of the zone. I'm not saying he doesn't. I just have never heard it. Where did you get that?

[soccer10k]

I think Hill is definitely making some strides but I would like to see a couple more solid performances before I'm going to light up the grill to cook the crow I have in my freezer.

[goonys evil twin]

I wasn't quick to jump on Hill for struggling and I won't be quick to go giddy over success. I like what he's doing and think he can keep it up, but he'll hit more big valleys along the way.

[Sammy Sofa]

I think a huge part of Hill making or breaking it relies on his mentality and confidence on the mound, and I'm worried that if he gets hit hard again soon that might be dashed.

 

Here's hoping that's not the case.

[CubsWin]

I wasn't quick to jump on Hill for struggling and I won't be quick to go giddy over success. I like what he's doing and think he can keep it up, but he'll hit more big valleys along the way.

Yeah, that's how I feel too. I just hope that he will be mentally strong enough to rebound from them quickly.

[Magnetic Curses]

I didn't see Hill pitch the last time out but for this organization's sake I'm hoping that I'm wrong and he has turned the corner. I'm still skeptical but I do want the kid to succeed.

 

he looked a lot like the guy he is often compared to, barry zito.

 

it appeared that most hitters were having a real tough time distinguishing between his fastball and curveball as it came out of his hand. they were late on a lot of high, outside fastballs that normally wouldn't be too hard to go the other way with.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I didn't see Hill pitch the last time out but for this organization's sake I'm hoping that I'm wrong and he has turned the corner. I'm still skeptical but I do want the kid to succeed.

 

he looked a lot like the guy he is often compared to, barry zito.

 

it appeared that most hitters were having a real tough time distinguishing between his fastball and curveball as it came out of his hand. they were late on a lot of high, outside fastballs that normally wouldn't be too hard to go the other way with.

 

Yep. If you can't distinguish between his curveball and a fastball that's well out of the zone, then you're screwed against Hill. Hopefully it was a case of consistent mechanics that should be repeatable.