Izturis / Cedeno Slick Young Defense

[Knyption]

They both are still rough, but could be a great duo

better than neifi, walker had to go cuz contract, etc.

[Post Count Padder]

Yes, they are both very good defensively, and we now have one of the best fielding middle infields in the NL. However, they both struggle at the plate. On a team with good offense, it would be easy to hide players like Ronny and Izturis in the lineup. We don't have a great offense, so therefore, while our defensive improves, the offense continues to get worse. This trade also increases the chances that one oif Neifi, Izturis, and Cedeno will be batting in the 2 hole on a regular basis.

[goonys evil twin]

I don't think either is particularly good on defense. You can only measure players against their peers, not the general baseball playing public. While both make me look foolish with the glove, they are no better than your typical major league shortstop, but they are two of the worst hitting players in the game, which means they will hurt this team a lot.

[ShawonOmeter12]

no they wont supply much offense but it doesnt really matter how bad our offense is this year. i will withhold my judgement until next year. if we go out and sign lee/soriano or some pretty good hitters it will work out nice having a great middle infield defense. defense and pitching are what win ballgames so lets see waht we lool like next year before we all get upset over this deal.

[hawkeyecub]

I don't think either is particularly good on defense.

 

Is there anything supporting that with Izturis? When I've seen him he has the ability to look spectacular but I know that doesn't translate to being a sound defensive SS. He definitely passes the eye test though.

 

I'd be interested to see where he's ranked defensively, although I'm skeptical of most defensive statistics.

[KaiserCesar]

no they wont supply much offense but it doesnt really matter how bad our offense is this year. i will withhold my judgement until next year. if we go out and sign lee/soriano or some pretty good hitters it will work out nice having a great middle infield defense. defense and pitching are what win ballgames so lets see waht we lool like next year before we all get upset over this deal.

 

Also scoring more runs then the opponent, the most accepted way of "winning ballgames" as you put it.

 

Guys with sub .650 OPS need to have some really spectacular defense to make up for their shortcomings, and you could easily have 2 of these guys.

[chuckywang]

Seriously, how many runs can Cedeno/Izturis save for us per game?

 

.5 runs? .25 runs?

 

I just don't see it being a determining factor whether we win or lose.

[Drew Doughty]

Seriously, how many runs can Cedeno/Izturis save for us per game?

 

.5 runs? .25 runs?

 

I just don't see it being a determining factor whether we win or lose.

 

it's much less than that over the course of a season in most cases.

[bhogg]

It's going to be really tough to "hide" Pierre's and Izturis' low production in a typical cub lineup.

 

It's going to take a superhuman season by Lee, ARam, Barrett and whomever is patrolling LF.

[Soul]

It's going to be really tough to "hide" Pierre's and Izturis' low production in a typical cub lineup.

 

It's going to take a superhuman season by Lee, ARam, Barrett and whomever is patrolling LF.

 

We really don't have the pitching. The run scoring isn't going to help much with only 2 starters.

[sethuel1]

I want to vomit.

[CubColtPacer]

I don't think either is particularly good on defense. You can only measure players against their peers, not the general baseball playing public. While both make me look foolish with the glove, they are no better than your typical major league shortstop, but they are two of the worst hitting players in the game, which means they will hurt this team a lot.

 

Cedeno has stuggled this season defensively, but every Dodger fan I've talked to says that Izturis is amazing defensively. There have been multiple people say that he is comparable to Visquel with the glove.

[USSoccer]

I don't think either is particularly good on defense. You can only measure players against their peers, not the general baseball playing public. While both make me look foolish with the glove, they are no better than your typical major league shortstop, but they are two of the worst hitting players in the game, which means they will hurt this team a lot.

 

Cedeno has stuggled this season defensively, but every Dodger fan I've talked to says that Izturis is amazing defensively. There have been multiple people say that he is comparable to Visquel with the glove.

 

Again, it's nice that he can field his position, but I'm not going to get excited to see him scoop up groundballs while we lose games 4-1 because our offense is pathetic.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I'd rather have a couple of dudes that could hit.

[CubsWin]

I don't think either is particularly good on defense. You can only measure players against their peers, not the general baseball playing public. While both make me look foolish with the glove, they are no better than your typical major league shortstop, but they are two of the worst hitting players in the game, which means they will hurt this team a lot.

 

Cedeno has stuggled this season defensively, but every Dodger fan I've talked to says that Izturis is amazing defensively. There have been multiple people say that he is comparable to Visquel with the glove.

If only he would be with the bat, the Cubs might have something.

 

I too am waiting to see what happens in the off-season. I don't think the Cubs can afford to have a middle infield of Izturis and Cedeno without greatly improving their outfield production and retaining Ramirez's services.

 

They will also likely need to sign a really good starter as well. That's a lot to expect Hendry to do given his past two off seasons. We'll see.

[USSoccer]

I don't think either is particularly good on defense. You can only measure players against their peers, not the general baseball playing public. While both make me look foolish with the glove, they are no better than your typical major league shortstop, but they are two of the worst hitting players in the game, which means they will hurt this team a lot.

 

Cedeno has stuggled this season defensively, but every Dodger fan I've talked to says that Izturis is amazing defensively. There have been multiple people say that he is comparable to Visquel with the glove.

If only he would be with the bat, the Cubs might have something.

 

I too am waiting to see what happens in the off-season. I don't think the Cubs can afford to have a middle infield of Izturis and Cedeno without greatly improving their outfield production and retaining Ramirez's services.

 

They will also likely need to sign a really good starter as well. That's a lot to expect Hendry to do given his past two off seasons. We'll see.

 

That's the problem. We have so much money tied up in redundant, beyond mediocre crap that it will prevent Hendry from having enough payroll flexibility to ensure Ramirez stays, AND pursue a OF and SP.

[hankp101]

Their weak offense and good defense would look a lot more serviceable with plus offense at the remaining 6 everyday positions. We already have that at C and 1B, plus 3B (assuming ARam doesn't opt out). Jones would be an adequate offensive LF (particularly if platooned with Murton), if we could go get a CF (isn't Griffey a FA?) and RF (Sheff) that could provide big offense relative to their positions. Not sure if the dollars would work out, but that would be a much better offense than we are seeing on a day-to-day basis right now.

[sethuel1]

That's the problem. We have so much money tied up in redundant, beyond mediocre crap that it will prevent Hendry from having enough payroll flexibility to ensure Ramirez stays, AND pursue a OF and SP.

 

I, for one, am very excited for that day in December where the people that crunch salary numbers in here determine that he's tied up enough money in crap to pursue a top tier FA in either of those 2 categories.

[CubColtPacer]

I don't think either is particularly good on defense. You can only measure players against their peers, not the general baseball playing public. While both make me look foolish with the glove, they are no better than your typical major league shortstop, but they are two of the worst hitting players in the game, which means they will hurt this team a lot.

 

Cedeno has stuggled this season defensively, but every Dodger fan I've talked to says that Izturis is amazing defensively. There have been multiple people say that he is comparable to Visquel with the glove.

If only he would be with the bat, the Cubs might have something.

 

I too am waiting to see what happens in the off-season. I don't think the Cubs can afford to have a middle infield of Izturis and Cedeno without greatly improving their outfield production and retaining Ramirez's services.

 

They will also likely need to sign a really good starter as well. That's a lot to expect Hendry to do given his past two off seasons. We'll see.

 

Actually Izturis has been better then Visquel with the bat at similar times in their careers. Visquel was 29 years old before he put his first over .700 OPS. Izturis had 1 at 24, and would have done it again at 25 and probably better if he hadn't gotten hurt. Who knows if he can come back and be the same player, but he definitely was developing faster than Visquel did.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Cedeno is Shawon Dunston without the power. Izturis is a Rey Ordonez clone. Yet, that will be our middle infield for next season. Excuse me if I'm not excited.

[Illini Iceman]

Cedeno is Shawon Dunston without the power. Izturis is a Rey Ordonez clone. Yet, that will be our middle infield for next season. Excuse me if I'm not excited.

 

I think Cedeno gets the rest of the year to prove he can handle 2B defensively and start making the adjustments to be a productive major league hitter. If not, I think Hendry either uses him as a trading chip or he gets more of a utility role next season.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Cedeno is Shawon Dunston without the power. Izturis is a Rey Ordonez clone. Yet, that will be our middle infield for next season. Excuse me if I'm not excited.

 

I think Cedeno gets the rest of the year to prove he can handle 2B defensively and start making the adjustments to be a productive major league hitter. If not, I think Hendry either uses him as a trading chip or he gets more of a utility role next season.

 

Even if he can handle second base defensively, he will be subpar offensively there...even more so than he would have been at SS.

 

It's likely that if we pencil in Cedeno/Izturis at 2b/SS, we'll have two hitters, both with a line that when optimistic is 288/301/344. That's atrocious.

[CubColtPacer]

Cedeno is Shawon Dunston without the power. Izturis is a Rey Ordonez clone. Yet, that will be our middle infield for next season. Excuse me if I'm not excited.

 

I think Cedeno gets the rest of the year to prove he can handle 2B defensively and start making the adjustments to be a productive major league hitter. If not, I think Hendry either uses him as a trading chip or he gets more of a utility role next season.

 

Even if he can handle second base defensively, he will be subpar offensively there...even more so than he would have been at SS.

 

It's likely that if we pencil in Cedeno/Izturis at 2b/SS, we'll have two hitters, both with a line that when optimistic is 288/301/344. That's atrocious.

 

I think that's undervaluing Izturis especially. He has had an OBP there or better each of the last three years, and better slugging then that two out of the last 3 years. That includes having half of his at bats last year being hurt. I see Izturis as more of a .280/.323/.365 hitter-still bad, but not nearly as bad for the offense.

[Balsa]

The last four years of Izturis's OBP:

 

.253

.282

.330

.302

.302

 

*pukes*

 

Okay, so we're gonna have a Izturis-Cedeno Middle infield?

 

That's .310 OBP if we're lucky. Not to mention the fact that Dusty just recently said Izturis is gonna be his #2 guy.

 

*PUKE**PUKE**PUKE**PUKE**PUKE**PUKE*

*PUKE**PUKE**PUKE**PUKE**PUKE**PUKE*

*PUKE**PUKE**PUKE**PUKE**PUKE**PUKE*

[abuck1220]

at least the cubs will have baseball's worst offensive middle infield to match baseball's worst offensive outfield. but, boy oh boy, will they catch the ball.