RUMOR: Ramirez to Anaheim if...

[Roast]

I'd take Santana and Lee over any FA pitcher and Ramirez.

 

That doesnt even make sense. The comparison isnt santana and Lee vs a FA pitcher and Ramirez.

 

The comparison is

 

Santana and Lee

vs

Lee, Ramirez, And a FA pitcher.

 

Since when does keeping ramirez mean losing lee?

 

Carlos Lee.

 

Well, then why does keeping ramirez mean we cant sign Carlos lee AND a FA pitcher.

 

We have woods contract coming off the books next year and we are a big market team. Money isnt our issue.

[Backtobanks]

But who plays 3B next year?

 

I feel this would just keep up the trend of robbing our offense of power.

 

It seems like we'd be trading something we lack (power hitting) for something we have more than enough of (speed and young pitching).

 

 

See my suggestion in the other topic "How About These 2 Trades?"

[bhogg]

This doesn't bother me. If ARam wants out of Chicago, that's fine. At least he's indicated (assumed) that he's going to opt out.

 

It's real easy to say it was a dumb move to include the opt-out. Who knows, maybe that was what convinced ARam to sign with the Cubs 2 years ago.

 

I'd love for ARam to stay with the Cubs, but if it isn't going to happen, so be it.

 

I also doubt we'd be able to re-sign him if he opts out with his new team.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

If Jim Hendry feels that there is a better than say a 66% chance that Aramis opts out of his contract, he ought to trade him.

 

Secondly I highly doubt it was Santana and Aybar. There is no way they got the same offer that they gave Tejada.

 

Supposedly, the most recent offer from Anaheim for Tejada was Santana + Aybar + Adenhart.

 

I'm kind of surprised the Angels would trade Santana, seeing as their rotation has a big hole already with Colon injured again.

[USSoccer]

So what happens when Lee & Soriano sign elsewhere? We'd suck something fierce.

[Roast]

If i was ramirez I would totally have some kind of under the table deal with hendry where the cubs would trade me to the angels for santana and whoever. And Then I would opt out of my contract this winter and sign w/ the cubs again. Just for kicks giggles and everything fun.

[Shavo]

I'd take Santana and Lee over any FA pitcher and Ramirez.

 

That doesnt even make sense. The comparison isnt santana and Lee vs a FA pitcher and Ramirez.

 

The comparison is

 

Santana and Lee

vs

Lee, Ramirez, And a FA pitcher.

 

Since when does keeping ramirez mean losing lee?

 

Carlos Lee.

 

Well, then why does keeping ramirez mean we cant sign Carlos lee AND a FA pitcher.

 

We have woods contract coming off the books next year and we are a big market team. Money isnt our issue.

 

Well, with the trade we could sign Lee and a pitcher alot easier.

[jjgman21]

Is it really that bad of a trade? I like Aramis as much as the next guy, but it's a fair offer. Ervin Santana is a very talented young pitcher who has had big league success and will be cheap for 3 more years. Aybar sounds like a good prospect too, as Tiger pointed out he has had much minor league success at a young age for his level. You also have $11M more to spend in free agency on top of the $24M from Maddux, Wood, Pierre. You could realistically sign 2 big-time free agents like Schmidt, and Carlos Lee while also making a trade for a playter with a salary over $10M a year.

 

The Cubs badly need to improve the rotation and if they can turn this trade into: Zambrano, Schmidt, Sanata, Prior, Marmol...with our current bullpen that is nasty. They also would have the money to improve the offense with Lee and another big-money hitter.

 

I wouldn't hate this trade.

 

There are few offensive upgrades out there in the FA market, and even if you sign one of them, you're right back to status quo, really. You'd have to sign 2 good offensive players if you deal Aramis

 

But you also wouldn't have to worry about getting another SP because of Santana. It's a pretty big risk, but if you feel that Ramirez is likely to opt out, I'd be real tempted to do it and insert myself in a deal for Ensberg.

 

or like you said earlier, maybe he opts out for more money, in which case you make another run at signing Aram

 

 

 

this is interesting in that the prevailing sentiment as that the O's are nuts for not trading Tejada for these two players, but the Cubs would be nuts to trade Aram for these two players.

 

Tejada is at least 4 years older, has a more onerous contract and has been roughly as productive as Aramis has been over the last 3 or so seasons. Tejada will decline as he finishes out his contract. Baltimore is going nowhere as they stand, so why not use a player that's older and only going to get worse to inject youth into your team?

 

Conversely, Aramis is 28, in his prime, productive provided he has some sembalance of lineup protection, and even if he renegotiates his deal for $15m, is still a better value than Tejada.

 

I'm not sure where you're getting the information about their ages. I have 5/25/76 for Tejada and 6/25/78 for Aram. Tejada may decline. Aram is a much bigger injury risk. Contracts are Aram at 3 for 33+M OR nothing but draft picks if he opts out. Tejada is 3 at 38. Tejada's VORP I'm sure is gigantic because he plays a defensive position, Aram's probably low considering he plays a power position.

 

I'm not sure I would do either trade. I just think these are two extremely comparable players, yet general sentiment, perhaps by different people, is the exact opposite on whether the trade would be good or bad.

[Rob]

What I'm stuck here wondering is, why aren't we hearing about Hendry renegotiating Aramis's contract?

 

If I were Hendry, I'd be sitting down with Aramis and his agent and trying to offer him up another couple million dollars over the next two years in exchange for taking out the opt-out clause. If Aramis were to refuse, then you know for sure he's planning on opting out, and then you trade him.

 

Just don't gamble with a talent like Aramis based on "indications"

[Shavo]

So what happens when Lee & Soriano sign elsewhere? We'd suck something fierce.

 

Overpay.

[RonnieWooWooSanto]

But who plays 3B next year?

 

Maybe LaRoche is part of that rumored Maddux deal. He very well could be the AAA position player that is rumored.

[CP_414]

But who plays 3B next year?

 

I feel this would just keep up the trend of robbing our offense of power.

 

It seems like we'd be trading something we lack (power hitting) for something we have more than enough of (speed and young pitching).

 

Maybe we can address that in the Maddux trade. The Dodgers are loaded with positional prospects. Maddux and Angel Guzman for Joel Guzman? or LaRoche? We would have a young left side of the infield, but that gives us freedom to spend big in other places. Or how about Nomar at 3B at about $7M a year? Aubrey Huff will be availble and shouldn't be more than about $6M a year. I would try to get a solid prospect who is big league ready at 3B for any combination of guys who won't be back next year, and some of our more expindable pitching prospects. Then rebuild the outfield and rotation. Maybe sign Trot Nixon and Mark Loretta with Aramis money, and shift Jones to CF. Use the other money coming off the books on Carlos Lee and Jason Schmidt.

[USSoccer]

I'd take Santana and Lee over any FA pitcher and Ramirez.

 

That doesnt even make sense. The comparison isnt santana and Lee vs a FA pitcher and Ramirez.

 

The comparison is

 

Santana and Lee

vs

Lee, Ramirez, And a FA pitcher.

 

Since when does keeping ramirez mean losing lee?

 

Carlos Lee.

 

Well, then why does keeping ramirez mean we cant sign Carlos lee AND a FA pitcher.

 

We have woods contract coming off the books next year and we are a big market team. Money isnt our issue.

 

Well, with the trade we could sign Lee and a pitcher alot easier.

 

Just like ths past winter, when we had all that salary getting freed up, right?

 

Couting on FA sighnings is a very risky move

[Mephistopheles]

Was that three player offer for Tejada or Ramirez?

[Fro]

I'd take Santana and Lee over any FA pitcher and Ramirez.

 

That doesnt even make sense. The comparison isnt santana and Lee vs a FA pitcher and Ramirez.

 

The comparison is

 

Santana and Lee

vs

Lee, Ramirez, And a FA pitcher.

 

Since when does keeping ramirez mean losing lee?

 

Carlos Lee.

 

Well, then why does keeping ramirez mean we cant sign Carlos lee AND a FA pitcher.

 

We have woods contract coming off the books next year and we are a big market team. Money isnt our issue.

 

Well, with the trade we could sign Lee and a pitcher alot easier.

 

Just like ths past winter, when we had all that salary getting freed up, right?

 

Couting on FA sighnings is a very risky move

 

We're gonna have way, way more money if we move Aram than in the last offseason. Not to mention some of Marshall/Marmol/Hill/Guzman will be expendable.

Edited July 30, 2006 by Fro

[USSoccer]

So what happens when Lee & Soriano sign elsewhere? We'd suck something fierce.

 

Overpay.

 

Like we were going to with Furcal?

[Shavo]

I'd take Santana and Lee over any FA pitcher and Ramirez.

 

That doesnt even make sense. The comparison isnt santana and Lee vs a FA pitcher and Ramirez.

 

The comparison is

 

Santana and Lee

vs

Lee, Ramirez, And a FA pitcher.

 

Since when does keeping ramirez mean losing lee?

 

Carlos Lee.

 

Well, then why does keeping ramirez mean we cant sign Carlos lee AND a FA pitcher.

 

We have woods contract coming off the books next year and we are a big market team. Money isnt our issue.

 

Well, with the trade we could sign Lee and a pitcher alot easier.

 

Just like ths past winter, when we had all that salary getting freed up, right?

 

Couting on FA sighnings is a very risky move

 

Overpay

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Was that three player offer for Tejada or Ramirez?

 

Tejada (I added that in to my previous post).

 

I'd be wetting my pants if the Angels offered Adenhart, Aybar and Santana for Aramis.

[jjgman21]

It was just on SportsCenter that the Angels are talking ot the Cubs about Aramis so it's probably not BS.

 

I'd do the trade, and then try and sign Aramis back in the offseason. It's pretty apparent he's opting out. (He'd be stupid not to)

 

I wouldn't be surprised if his source was Iowacubs.

 

I haven't heard anything on ESPN that I haven't heard online first.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Was that three player offer for Tejada or Ramirez?

 

Which 3 player offer? Aybar, McPherson, Santana is only speculation on our part on what a good package would be for Ramirez. I think there were reports that Aybar, Santana, and another player that might've been Adenhart were offered for Tejada.

[USSoccer]

 

We're gonna have way, way more money if we move Aram than in the last offseason.

 

Which means nothing. There are 2 decent offensive players available this winter. There are 2 decent FA pitchers. NY is going to need a pitcher. LA is going to need one. Soriano and Lee are going to be wildly overvalued in that market. There is ZERO guarantee we'd be able to sign one of Zito, Schmidt, Lee or Soriano, and even if we did, niether of Lee or Soriano are better than Ramirez. Zito is okay. Schmidt is so-so, and is an injury risk. And if you were going to overpay one just to make sure you got one, why not overpay to guarantee you keep Ramirez, who's again, better than Lee and Soriano are?

Edited July 30, 2006 by USSoccer

[CP_414]

So what happens when Lee & Soriano sign elsewhere? We'd suck something fierce.

 

Overpay.

 

 

I think Lee wants to be here. It was reported in Milwaukee today that he would have accepted 5/60 from the Brewers rather than the 4/48 they offered. He kept living in Chicago even after he joined the Brewers. He talked about being interested in being a Cub both when he was a White Sox and a Brewer. It's not guaranteed, but I think if the Cubs offer 5/60 he'll sign. I think that's going to be overpaying for him down the road, but it's not a bad deal for the first 3 years.

[rawaction]

But who plays 3B next year?

 

I feel this would just keep up the trend of robbing our offense of power.

 

It seems like we'd be trading something we lack (power hitting) for something we have more than enough of (speed and young pitching).

 

Ensberg seems to be available from Houston. Blalock may be available (though, he's not a good option). I think Mora could be had, especially if they can't deal Tejada. Nomar will be on the market again next year. There are options.

[jjgman21]

But who plays 3B next year?

 

I feel this would just keep up the trend of robbing our offense of power.

 

It seems like we'd be trading something we lack (power hitting) for something we have more than enough of (speed and young pitching).

 

Maybe we can address that in the Maddux trade. The Dodgers are loaded with positional prospects. Maddux and Angel Guzman for Joel Guzman? or LaRoche? We would have a young left side of the infield, but that gives us freedom to spend big in other places. Or how about Nomar at 3B at about $7M a year? Aubrey Huff will be availble and shouldn't be more than about $6M a year. I would try to get a solid prospect who is big league ready at 3B for any combination of guys who won't be back next year, and some of our more expindable pitching prospects. Then rebuild the outfield and rotation. Maybe sign Trot Nixon and Mark Loretta with Aramis money, and shift Jones to CF. Use the other money coming off the books on Carlos Lee and Jason Schmidt.

 

just an FYI, Nomar again to the DL as of today.

[Mephistopheles]

Tejada (I added that in to my previous post).

 

I'd be wetting my pants if the Angels offered Adenhart, Aybar and Santana for Aramis.

 

Okay, that's what I thought just making sure.