RUMOR: Ramirez to Anaheim if...

[iowacub]

i was told the cubs asked for kendric(not sure) or wood, were told no way instead of aybar

[USSoccer]

Is it really that bad of a trade? I like Aramis as much as the next guy, but it's a fair offer. Ervin Santana is a very talented young pitcher who has had big league success and will be cheap for 3 more years. Aybar sounds like a good prospect too, as Tiger pointed out he has had much minor league success at a young age for his level. You also have $11M more to spend in free agency on top of the $24M from Maddux, Wood, Pierre. You could realistically sign 2 big-time free agents like Schmidt, and Carlos Lee while also making a trade for a playter with a salary over $10M a year.

 

The Cubs badly need to improve the rotation and if they can turn this trade into: Zambrano, Schmidt, Sanata, Prior, Marmol...with our current bullpen that is nasty. They also would have the money to improve the offense with Lee and another big-money hitter.

 

I wouldn't hate this trade.

 

There are few offensive upgrades out there in the FA market, and even if you sign one of them, you're right back to status quo, really. You'd have to sign 2 good offensive players if you deal Aramis

 

Sign Carlos Lee and the offense is a wash. Then factor in Santana and it's an improvement. Then facto in Aybar and it's an even better improvement.

 

Ayber sounds like a slightly better Ronny Cedeno. Santana is good, but I want more than that for Aramis.

[CP_414]

Does LAA have a 6th starter to finish the season in Santana's place? Is it possible Maddux is part of this deal to finish the season in the Angels rotation? Being a SoCal team in the hunt, he might be willing to spend a few months in the AL.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Is it really that bad of a trade? I like Aramis as much as the next guy, but it's a fair offer. Ervin Santana is a very talented young pitcher who has had big league success and will be cheap for 3 more years. Aybar sounds like a good prospect too, as Tiger pointed out he has had much minor league success at a young age for his level. You also have $11M more to spend in free agency on top of the $24M from Maddux, Wood, Pierre. You could realistically sign 2 big-time free agents like Schmidt, and Carlos Lee while also making a trade for a playter with a salary over $10M a year.

 

The Cubs badly need to improve the rotation and if they can turn this trade into: Zambrano, Schmidt, Sanata, Prior, Marmol...with our current bullpen that is nasty. They also would have the money to improve the offense with Lee and another big-money hitter.

 

I wouldn't hate this trade.

 

There are few offensive upgrades out there in the FA market, and even if you sign one of them, you're right back to status quo, really. You'd have to sign 2 good offensive players if you deal Aramis

 

But you also wouldn't have to worry about getting another SP because of Santana. It's a pretty big risk, but if you feel that Ramirez is likely to opt out, I'd be real tempted to do it and insert myself in a deal for Ensberg.

[USSoccer]

Is it really that bad of a trade? I like Aramis as much as the next guy, but it's a fair offer. Ervin Santana is a very talented young pitcher who has had big league success and will be cheap for 3 more years. Aybar sounds like a good prospect too, as Tiger pointed out he has had much minor league success at a young age for his level. You also have $11M more to spend in free agency on top of the $24M from Maddux, Wood, Pierre. You could realistically sign 2 big-time free agents like Schmidt, and Carlos Lee while also making a trade for a playter with a salary over $10M a year.

 

The Cubs badly need to improve the rotation and if they can turn this trade into: Zambrano, Schmidt, Sanata, Prior, Marmol...with our current bullpen that is nasty. They also would have the money to improve the offense with Lee and another big-money hitter.

 

I wouldn't hate this trade.

 

There are few offensive upgrades out there in the FA market, and even if you sign one of them, you're right back to status quo, really. You'd have to sign 2 good offensive players if you deal Aramis

 

But you also wouldn't have to worry about getting another SP because of Santana. It's a pretty big risk, but if you feel that Ramirez is likely to opt out, I'd be real tempted to do it and insert myself in a deal for Ensberg.

 

Unless Aramis truly hates playing in Chicago, we should be able to retain him, even if he opts out for more money. A team with Ramirez that adds on pitchers is better than a team with Santana that tries to add hitters like Soriano or Lee.

[jjgman21]

Is it really that bad of a trade? I like Aramis as much as the next guy, but it's a fair offer. Ervin Santana is a very talented young pitcher who has had big league success and will be cheap for 3 more years. Aybar sounds like a good prospect too, as Tiger pointed out he has had much minor league success at a young age for his level. You also have $11M more to spend in free agency on top of the $24M from Maddux, Wood, Pierre. You could realistically sign 2 big-time free agents like Schmidt, and Carlos Lee while also making a trade for a playter with a salary over $10M a year.

 

The Cubs badly need to improve the rotation and if they can turn this trade into: Zambrano, Schmidt, Sanata, Prior, Marmol...with our current bullpen that is nasty. They also would have the money to improve the offense with Lee and another big-money hitter.

 

I wouldn't hate this trade.

 

There are few offensive upgrades out there in the FA market, and even if you sign one of them, you're right back to status quo, really. You'd have to sign 2 good offensive players if you deal Aramis

 

But you also wouldn't have to worry about getting another SP because of Santana. It's a pretty big risk, but if you feel that Ramirez is likely to opt out, I'd be real tempted to do it and insert myself in a deal for Ensberg.

 

or like you said earlier, maybe he opts out for more money, in which case you make another run at signing Aram

 

 

 

this is interesting in that the prevailing sentiment as that the O's are nuts for not trading Tejada for these two players, but the Cubs would be nuts to trade Aram for these two players.

[RonnieWooWooSanto]

Ayber sounds like a slightly better Ronny Cedeno. Santana is good, but I want more than that for Aramis.

 

Sickels graded him a B+, which is pretty high in his book. The two highest-graded cubs prospects he had were Pawalek & Pie, both B+ (going into this season).

 

If these rating are on target, then Aybar is better than Cedeno. More than "slightly" better.

Edited July 30, 2006 by RonnieWooWooSanto

[USSoccer]

Is it really that bad of a trade? I like Aramis as much as the next guy, but it's a fair offer. Ervin Santana is a very talented young pitcher who has had big league success and will be cheap for 3 more years. Aybar sounds like a good prospect too, as Tiger pointed out he has had much minor league success at a young age for his level. You also have $11M more to spend in free agency on top of the $24M from Maddux, Wood, Pierre. You could realistically sign 2 big-time free agents like Schmidt, and Carlos Lee while also making a trade for a playter with a salary over $10M a year.

 

The Cubs badly need to improve the rotation and if they can turn this trade into: Zambrano, Schmidt, Sanata, Prior, Marmol...with our current bullpen that is nasty. They also would have the money to improve the offense with Lee and another big-money hitter.

 

I wouldn't hate this trade.

 

There are few offensive upgrades out there in the FA market, and even if you sign one of them, you're right back to status quo, really. You'd have to sign 2 good offensive players if you deal Aramis

 

But you also wouldn't have to worry about getting another SP because of Santana. It's a pretty big risk, but if you feel that Ramirez is likely to opt out, I'd be real tempted to do it and insert myself in a deal for Ensberg.

 

or like you said earlier, maybe he opts out for more money, in which case you make another run at signing Aram

 

 

 

this is interesting in that the prevailing sentiment as that the O's are nuts for not trading Tejada for these two players, but the Cubs would be nuts to trade Aram for these two players.

 

Tejada is at least 4 years older, has a more onerous contract and has been roughly as productive as Aramis has been over the last 3 or so seasons. Tejada will decline as he finishes out his contract. Baltimore is going nowhere as they stand, so why not use a player that's older and only going to get worse to inject youth into your team?

 

Conversely, Aramis is 28, in his prime, productive provided he has some sembalance of lineup protection, and even if he renegotiates his deal for $15m, is still a better value than Tejada.

Edited July 30, 2006 by USSoccer

[CP_414]

Is it really that bad of a trade? I like Aramis as much as the next guy, but it's a fair offer. Ervin Santana is a very talented young pitcher who has had big league success and will be cheap for 3 more years. Aybar sounds like a good prospect too, as Tiger pointed out he has had much minor league success at a young age for his level. You also have $11M more to spend in free agency on top of the $24M from Maddux, Wood, Pierre. You could realistically sign 2 big-time free agents like Schmidt, and Carlos Lee while also making a trade for a playter with a salary over $10M a year.

 

The Cubs badly need to improve the rotation and if they can turn this trade into: Zambrano, Schmidt, Sanata, Prior, Marmol...with our current bullpen that is nasty. They also would have the money to improve the offense with Lee and another big-money hitter.

 

I wouldn't hate this trade.

 

There are few offensive upgrades out there in the FA market, and even if you sign one of them, you're right back to status quo, really. You'd have to sign 2 good offensive players if you deal Aramis

 

Sign Carlos Lee and the offense is a wash. Then factor in Santana and it's an improvement. Then facto in Aybar and it's an even better improvement.

 

Ayber sounds like a slightly better Ronny Cedeno. Santana is good, but I want more than that for Aramis.

 

I guess I just think Aybar's numbers are more promising than Cedeno's. Aybar has hit for a good average all 4 years he has been in the minors. He also seems to be faster than Cedeno. Ronny really only had 1 season in the minors where he hit well.

[USSoccer]

Ayber sounds like a slightly better Ronny Cedeno. Santana is good, but I want more than that for Aramis.

 

Sickels graded him a B+, which is pretty high in his book. The two highest-graded cubs prospects he had were Pawalek & Pie, both B+ (going into this season).

 

If these rating are on target, then Aybar is better than Cedeno. More than "slightly" better.

 

The difference is that Aybar has not been exposed to ML pitching. Their weaknesses are basically the same.

 

Ask yourself, "What is Aybar's absolute ceiling". If everything works out, what's the best he can be?

Edited July 30, 2006 by USSoccer

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Ayber sounds like a slightly better Ronny Cedeno. Santana is good, but I want more than that for Aramis.

 

Sickels graded him a B+, which is pretty high in his book. The two highest-graded cubs prospects he had were Pawalek & Pie, both B+ (going into this season).

 

If these rating are on target, then Aybar is better than Cedeno. More than "slightly" better.

 

The difference is that Aybar has not been exposed to ML pitching. Their weaknesses are basically the same.

 

And that Aybar has had a significantly better career.

[Roast]

i was told the cubs asked for kendric(not sure) or wood, were told no way instead of aybar

 

Who are you being told this by? Just wondering, because to be honest idk whether to believe you or not. You've been her a year and a half and havent posted anything bogus yet. But im always skeptical of people who are "told" things.

[Outshined_One]

Aybar + McPherson + Santana would be an intriguing deal for Ramirez, imo.

[CP_414]

i was told the cubs asked for kendric(not sure) or wood, were told no way instead of aybar

 

Who are you being told this by? Just wondering, because to be honest idk whether to believe you or not. You've been her a year and a half and havent posted anything bogus yet. But im always skeptical of people who are "told" things.

 

According to his 1st post someone with the Angels. It's not hard to believe knowing the Santana/Aybar offer was made for Tejada and numberous reports have the Cubs and LAA talking about Aramis. Steve Phillips was just on Sportscenter2 minutes ago saying the Cubs and Angels were talking Aramis. He also said the Dodgers have great interest in Maddux, from the not so breaking news category.

[Brian]

It was just on SportsCenter that the Angels are talking ot the Cubs about Aramis so it's probably not BS.

 

I'd do the trade, and then try and sign Aramis back in the offseason. It's pretty apparent he's opting out. (He'd be stupid not to)

[Fro]

You don't want to overvalue Aram either, just because we've historically had trouble filling the 3B spot. And we'd have a truckload of money to spend if you get rid if Aram is traded.

 

If he wants out, you gotta make this deal.

[Shavo]

I'd take Santana and Lee over any FA pitcher and Ramirez.

[Brian]

I'd definately try to get another player in the deal, but it is seeming more and more likely that we'll have to pony up more money to Aram after the year is over. I don't think sending him to SoCal for 2 months is going to make it much harder to sign him back up. I really like Santana too.

[Roast]

I'd take Santana and Lee over any FA pitcher and Ramirez.

 

That doesnt even make sense. The comparison isnt santana and Lee vs a FA pitcher and Ramirez.

 

The comparison is

 

Santana and Lee

vs

Lee, Ramirez, And a FA pitcher.

 

Since when does keeping ramirez mean losing lee?

[Outshined_One]

Santana definitely would make any offseason problems involving the rotation easier to handle.

 

If Hendry doesn't botch these trades, the Cubs could have a very good young team in place to compete in 2007 and beyond.

[CP_414]

I'd take Santana and Lee over any FA pitcher and Ramirez.

 

Thing is it's really Santana and Lee or Aramis and any free aent pitcher you can get for $1.5M a year. Even without this trade the Cubs will have enough money to sign Lee and Schmidt.

 

With this trade you can sign Lee, Schmidt, and acquire another $10M player and also have Santana in the rotation.

[Brian]

I think he's talking about signing Carlos Lee.

[CP_414]

I'd take Santana and Lee over any FA pitcher and Ramirez.

 

That doesnt even make sense. The comparison isnt santana and Lee vs a FA pitcher and Ramirez.

 

The comparison is

 

Santana and Lee

vs

Lee, Ramirez, And a FA pitcher.

 

Since when does keeping ramirez mean losing lee?

 

Carlos Lee.

[FloridaCubbie]

But who plays 3B next year?

 

I feel this would just keep up the trend of robbing our offense of power.

 

It seems like we'd be trading something we lack (power hitting) for something we have more than enough of (speed and young pitching).

[Fro]

I'd take Santana and Lee over any FA pitcher and Ramirez.

 

That doesnt even make sense. The comparison isnt santana and Lee vs a FA pitcher and Ramirez.

 

The comparison is

 

Santana and Lee

vs

Lee, Ramirez, And a FA pitcher.

 

There's no guarantee that the Cubs will sign Zito and Schmidt, either

 

If you know Aram is going to opt out of his deal anyway, there's no downside to this deal. It's basically two free players.