WSox get MacDougal; 'extremely close' to acquiring Soriano?

abuck1220 · July 24, 2006

What's the point of this deal exactly?

so the white sox can compete with the cubs' news that lee's going on the DL.

Tracer Bullet · July 24, 2006

If you guys ever want to see the Cubs win a world series in your lifetime, your gonna need superstars on your team like Soriano, not a bunch of prospects or guys like Cedeno and Matt Murton

If a corner OF w/ an .835 is a Superstar, you can have all the Superstars you want. At 2B, that's good; for corner OF, it's nothing special.

I want good baseball players, hype or not. Soriano's all hype.

Thats a little over the top. Has he been overrated in the past? You bet.

This year he is hitting almost .300, OBP over .360 and he is on his way to 40 HR's, 40 doubles, and 40 steals. I don't think it's fair to say he is "all hype" at this point.

Will he do it again next year? I have no idea. He is doing it now though.

Will he do it for the next 3 months? I don't have any idea about that either, but his career numbers suggest otherwise (esp if you put him back in the AL - the NL East isn't exactly full of dominant pitchers).

If Soriano's 400 ABs this year make him a Superstar, that's just insane. His career numbers, esp w/ that .325 OBP, are nothing special.

As I said in my post he has been overrated in his career. However, as much as I value OBP I realize a player can be productive with a sub-par OBP. I think it may be the most important stat in the game, but if you have great power you have a lot to add anyway.

For his entire career Soriano has a 162 game seasonal average of 35 HR's/35 Steals/40 doubles, a .281 lifetime average and a .511 slugging percentage. His OBP is subpar at .325. That is the main reason why I have said he has been overrated in the past. This season, he is a superstar. Throughout his career he has been very productive offensively (not all hype).

Soriano is a lock to get a contract over $10M next year. It will probably be closer to $13M than $10M. I'm not saying I want Hendry to give him that much, but I think you are downplaying the success he has had in his career.

No, actually I'm not. If he were a 2B, that'd be one thing. But really, he had 2 really good years for the Yankees (surrounded by some really good hitters). Coincidentally, he was 26/27 during those years. The year before, also in NY, he was a really bad .736 (.304 OBP).

His next 2 years for Texas - as goony pointed out - he was right at league average. I'm not sure if that was league average overall, or just considering 2B, I don't recall what goony posted exactly, but his OPS's were .821 and .807 - nothing special.

His .511 SLG is good, great for a 2B. But it doesn't overcome a bad OBP. It makes him valuable, but not $10m valuable. If he had a .325 OBP and a .400 SLG, he's be worthless, I'm not saying he's worthless. But not making outs is the most important aspect of hitting and he has not been good at that for his entire career, until his contrat year.

This year, as I've pointed out many times, he's had 2 great months, 1 horrible one, and 1 fantastic one. Or less than 300 really good ABs against some bad pitchers. I'm not willing to grant him superstar status based on that. Yes, someone will pay him $10-15m for the next few years. I'm willing to bet that they'll be regretting that in the first year or 2, but whatever, it's their money.

goonys evil twin · July 24, 2006

it's full of huge ballparks, though. especially the one he plays half his games in.

OPS Home/Road - 1.042/.879

Doesn't seem to be bothered by the size of his home park.

exactly. imagine how he'd be doing if he was hitting in a good park.

Didn't they make some changes to the dimensions of RFK this season?

Tracer Bullet · July 24, 2006

it's full of huge ballparks, though. especially the one he plays half his games in.

OPS Home/Road - 1.042/.879

Doesn't seem to be bothered by the size of his home park.

exactly. imagine how he'd be doing if he was hitting in a good park.

Didn't Pedro just post that RFK is #6 in PF, one spot behind Wrigley?

He is playing in a good hitter's park.

link

Backtobanks · July 24, 2006

I'm really generalizing here, and I apologize for that ahead of time, but when there were rumors of the Cubs being interested in Soriano last year, many here hated it and said it was a typical Jim Hendry move for a tools guy with terrible plate discipline, etc.

Now the Sox are maybe getting him (and I like the move for them if they do), and many are saying how stupid the Cubs are for not doing something like this.

It seems like many of us want it both ways. We want to complain when the Cubs are rumored to like someone and say how stupid they are for doing so, then complain when some other teams gets the exact same guy and say the Cubs are stupid for not getting him.

Well said! It is fun discussing some of these rumors, but I've seen pages and pages criticizing the Cubs for thinking about Craig Wilson, Carl Crawford, Abreu, Soriano, etc. for a variety of statistical reasons. Meanwhile, back at the ballpark, the Cubs are on their way to losing 100 games. Hendry is an idiot for wanting Soriano and Kenny Williams is a genius for getting him.

JonnyRed · July 24, 2006

He's now a 30-year-old corner OF with a career .835 OPS. He's peaking in his contract season, but his last two years were .807 and .821. He's not a $10m player.

He's going to get at least 10m a year come next year. It's what the current market demands. I mean is Furcal worth 13m a year? Is AJ Burnett worth 5\60 million?

No and no. Just b/c people are stupid enough to pay average players crazy money doesn't mean you jump into the stupid pool.

He may get $10m from someone next year, in fact I'd be surprised if he didn't, but he'll be 31 next year and he has a career .835 OPS. For a corner OF, that's above average, but not $10m worth.

Put it this way - the team that pays him $10m next year is not going to get a good return on their investment (disclaimer - if he moves back to 2B that helps, but I still think $10m is too much - Walker had a better OPS each of the last 2 seasons).

OPS or no OPS, Walker isn't even in the same universe as Soriano (except when it comes to defense).

Jon · July 24, 2006

He's now a 30-year-old corner OF with a career .835 OPS. He's peaking in his contract season, but his last two years were .807 and .821. He's not a $10m player.

He's going to get at least 10m a year come next year. It's what the current market demands. I mean is Furcal worth 13m a year? Is AJ Burnett worth 5\60 million?

No and no. Just b/c people are stupid enough to pay average players crazy money doesn't mean you jump into the stupid pool.

He may get $10m from someone next year, in fact I'd be surprised if he didn't, but he'll be 31 next year and he has a career .835 OPS. For a corner OF, that's above average, but not $10m worth.

Put it this way - the team that pays him $10m next year is not going to get a good return on their investment (disclaimer - if he moves back to 2B that helps, but I still think $10m is too much - Walker had a better OPS each of the last 2 seasons).

OPS or no OPS, Walker isn't even in the same universe as Soriano (except when it comes to defense).

Not this year, but certainly the last two years, especially relative to their positions.

imb · July 24, 2006

He's now a 30-year-old corner OF with a career .835 OPS. He's peaking in his contract season, but his last two years were .807 and .821. He's not a $10m player.

He's going to get at least 10m a year come next year. It's what the current market demands. I mean is Furcal worth 13m a year? Is AJ Burnett worth 5\60 million?

No and no. Just b/c people are stupid enough to pay average players crazy money doesn't mean you jump into the stupid pool.

He may get $10m from someone next year, in fact I'd be surprised if he didn't, but he'll be 31 next year and he has a career .835 OPS. For a corner OF, that's above average, but not $10m worth.

Put it this way - the team that pays him $10m next year is not going to get a good return on their investment (disclaimer - if he moves back to 2B that helps, but I still think $10m is too much - Walker had a better OPS each of the last 2 seasons).

OPS or no OPS, Walker isn't even in the same universe as Soriano (except when it comes to defense).

2004 .820

2005 .829

2004 .808

2005 .821

Who is who?

Obviously Soriano is having a far, far superior year in 2006, but the last 2 years I would much rather have had Walker at second base.

Magnetic Curses · July 24, 2006

He's now a 30-year-old corner OF with a career .835 OPS. He's peaking in his contract season, but his last two years were .807 and .821. He's not a $10m player.

He's going to get at least 10m a year come next year. It's what the current market demands. I mean is Furcal worth 13m a year? Is AJ Burnett worth 5\60 million?

No and no. Just b/c people are stupid enough to pay average players crazy money doesn't mean you jump into the stupid pool.

He may get $10m from someone next year, in fact I'd be surprised if he didn't, but he'll be 31 next year and he has a career .835 OPS. For a corner OF, that's above average, but not $10m worth.

Put it this way - the team that pays him $10m next year is not going to get a good return on their investment (disclaimer - if he moves back to 2B that helps, but I still think $10m is too much - Walker had a better OPS each of the last 2 seasons).

OPS or no OPS, Walker isn't even in the same universe as Soriano (except when it comes to defense).

2004 .820
2005 .829

2004 .808
2005 .821

Who is who?

Obviously Soriano is having a far, far superior year in 2006, but the last 2 years I would much rather have had Walker at second base.

OPS doesn't mean anything, the true measure of a player is how many times he's mentioned on espn.

goonys evil twin · July 24, 2006

I'm really generalizing here, and I apologize for that ahead of time, but when there were rumors of the Cubs being interested in Soriano last year, many here hated it and said it was a typical Jim Hendry move for a tools guy with terrible plate discipline, etc.

Now the Sox are maybe getting him (and I like the move for them if they do), and many are saying how stupid the Cubs are for not doing something like this.

It seems like many of us want it both ways. We want to complain when the Cubs are rumored to like someone and say how stupid they are for doing so, then complain when some other teams gets the exact same guy and say the Cubs are stupid for not getting him.

Well said! It is fun discussing some of these rumors, but I've seen pages and pages criticizing the Cubs for thinking about Craig Wilson, Carl Crawford, Abreu, Soriano, etc. for a variety of statistical reasons. Meanwhile, back at the ballpark, the Cubs are on their way to losing 100 games. Hendry is an idiot for wanting Soriano and Kenny Williams is a genius for getting him.

You've seen pages and pages of criticizing the Cubs for thinking about Craig Wilson or Abreu? I sure as hell haven't. I'm not even sure there are pages criticizing them for thinking about Soriano. It's not the type of move I'd like to see them make, but I'm not adamently opposed to it either. I've seen Crawford brought up on occasion, usually in the positive.

Magnetic Curses · July 24, 2006

I'm really generalizing here, and I apologize for that ahead of time, but when there were rumors of the Cubs being interested in Soriano last year, many here hated it and said it was a typical Jim Hendry move for a tools guy with terrible plate discipline, etc.

Now the Sox are maybe getting him (and I like the move for them if they do), and many are saying how stupid the Cubs are for not doing something like this.

It seems like many of us want it both ways. We want to complain when the Cubs are rumored to like someone and say how stupid they are for doing so, then complain when some other teams gets the exact same guy and say the Cubs are stupid for not getting him.

Well said! It is fun discussing some of these rumors, but I've seen pages and pages criticizing the Cubs for thinking about Craig Wilson, Carl Crawford, Abreu, Soriano, etc. for a variety of statistical reasons. Meanwhile, back at the ballpark, the Cubs are on their way to losing 100 games. Hendry is an idiot for wanting Soriano and Kenny Williams is a genius for getting him.

You've seen pages and pages of criticizing the Cubs for thinking about Craig Wilson or Abreu? I sure as hell haven't. I'm not even sure there are pages criticizing them for thinking about Soriano. It's not the type of move I'd like to see them make, but I'm not adamently opposed to it either. I've seen Crawford brought up on occasion, usually in the positive.

people criticized possibly acquiring soriano before he changed his hitting strategy, began making pitchers throw him good pitches and became non-overrated for the first time in his career.

Outshined_One · July 24, 2006

Soriano historically is a good player, but he's just playing out of his mind this year.

Kenny Williams has to make a move to spark his team. Detroit's pulling away while Minnesota is creeping up on them. They still have time to get going once again, but an offensive upgrade would be most welcome for them.

Plus, the market for hitters is much better than the one for bullpen and starting pitching help. I shudder to think what Florida's asking price for Willis is.

UK1679666180 · July 24, 2006

Soriano historically is a good player, but he's just playing out of his mind this year.

Kenny Williams has to make a move to spark his team. Detroit's pulling away while Minnesota is creeping up on them. They still have time to get going once again, but an offensive upgrade would be most welcome for them.

Plus, the market for hitters is much better than the one for bullpen and starting pitching help. I shudder to think what Florida's asking price for Willis is.

Pretty high if you ask Girardi...

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/marlins/content/sports/epaper/2006/07/24/a2c_marlins_notes_0724.html

Quite the gaggle of former Cubs in that article.

Hacking Out Machine · July 24, 2006

I'm really generalizing here, and I apologize for that ahead of time, but when there were rumors of the Cubs being interested in Soriano last year, many here hated it and said it was a typical Jim Hendry move for a tools guy with terrible plate discipline, etc.

Now the Sox are maybe getting him (and I like the move for them if they do), and many are saying how stupid the Cubs are for not doing something like this.

It seems like many of us want it both ways. We want to complain when the Cubs are rumored to like someone and say how stupid they are for doing so, then complain when some other teams gets the exact same guy and say the Cubs are stupid for not getting him.

Well said! It is fun discussing some of these rumors, but I've seen pages and pages criticizing the Cubs for thinking about Craig Wilson, Carl Crawford, Abreu, Soriano, etc. for a variety of statistical reasons. Meanwhile, back at the ballpark, the Cubs are on their way to losing 100 games. Hendry is an idiot for wanting Soriano and Kenny Williams is a genius for getting him.

You've seen pages and pages of criticizing the Cubs for thinking about Craig Wilson or Abreu? I sure as hell haven't. I'm not even sure there are pages criticizing them for thinking about Soriano. It's not the type of move I'd like to see them make, but I'm not adamently opposed to it either. I've seen Crawford brought up on occasion, usually in the positive.

people criticized possibly acquiring soriano before he changed his hitting strategy, began making pitchers throw him good pitches and became non-overrated for the first time in his career.

Consider me a big fan of Soriano. He's become a much better hitter, as you suggest, because he is drawing a lot more walks. With his speed and power, even a decent OBP makes him a great player to have, and he's taking pitches now. it's probably because pitchers are being that much more careful with him, but kudos to him for laying off the pitches. He's made himself a heck of a player.

oldcubsfan · July 24, 2006

He's now a 30-year-old corner OF with a career .835 OPS. He's peaking in his contract season, but his last two years were .807 and .821. He's not a $10m player.

He's going to get at least 10m a year come next year. It's what the current market demands. I mean is Furcal worth 13m a year? Is AJ Burnett worth 5\60 million?

No and no. Just b/c people are stupid enough to pay average players crazy money doesn't mean you jump into the stupid pool.

He may get $10m from someone next year, in fact I'd be surprised if he didn't, but he'll be 31 next year and he has a career .835 OPS. For a corner OF, that's above average, but not $10m worth.

Put it this way - the team that pays him $10m next year is not going to get a good return on their investment (disclaimer - if he moves back to 2B that helps, but I still think $10m is too much - Walker had a better OPS each of the last 2 seasons).

OPS or no OPS, Walker isn't even in the same universe as Soriano (except when it comes to defense).

The game isn't value ball, it's baseball and Todd Walker's name should not be even associated with Soriano's. Good grief, some people should watch a game and then try to tell us Walker is a good ballplayer.

Jon · July 24, 2006

The game isn't value ball, it's baseball and Todd Walker's name should not be even associated with Soriano's. Good grief, some people should watch a game and then try to tell us Walker is a good ballplayer.

Yeah, who would favor two statistically better seasons from a second baseman over a corner outfielder at a fifth of the price? Those folks are really out there.

Hacking Out Machine · July 24, 2006

He's now a 30-year-old corner OF with a career .835 OPS. He's peaking in his contract season, but his last two years were .807 and .821. He's not a $10m player.

He's going to get at least 10m a year come next year. It's what the current market demands. I mean is Furcal worth 13m a year? Is AJ Burnett worth 5\60 million?

No and no. Just b/c people are stupid enough to pay average players crazy money doesn't mean you jump into the stupid pool.

He may get $10m from someone next year, in fact I'd be surprised if he didn't, but he'll be 31 next year and he has a career .835 OPS. For a corner OF, that's above average, but not $10m worth.

Put it this way - the team that pays him $10m next year is not going to get a good return on their investment (disclaimer - if he moves back to 2B that helps, but I still think $10m is too much - Walker had a better OPS each of the last 2 seasons).

OPS or no OPS, Walker isn't even in the same universe as Soriano (except when it comes to defense).

The game isn't value ball, it's baseball and Todd Walker's name should not be even associated with Soriano's. Good grief, some people should watch a game and then try to tell us Walker is a good ballplayer.

Good Grief is right...

moorecg · July 24, 2006

The game isn't value ball, it's baseball and Todd Walker's name should not be even associated with Soriano's. Good grief, some people should watch a game and then try to tell us Walker is a good ballplayer.
Yeah, who would favor two statistically better seasons from a second baseman over a corner outfielder at a fifth of the price? Those folks are really out there.

I don't want to get into the argument...just thought it should be noted that "it isn't value ball, its baseball" sounds a heck of a lot like "its not called walking, its called hitting"...

BigbadB · July 24, 2006

I'm really generalizing here, and I apologize for that ahead of time, but when there were rumors of the Cubs being interested in Soriano last year, many here hated it and said it was a typical Jim Hendry move for a tools guy with terrible plate discipline, etc.

Now the Sox are maybe getting him (and I like the move for them if they do), and many are saying how stupid the Cubs are for not doing something like this.

It seems like many of us want it both ways. We want to complain when the Cubs are rumored to like someone and say how stupid they are for doing so, then complain when some other teams gets the exact same guy and say the Cubs are stupid for not getting him.

Well said! It is fun discussing some of these rumors, but I've seen pages and pages criticizing the Cubs for thinking about Craig Wilson, Carl Crawford, Abreu, Soriano, etc. for a variety of statistical reasons. Meanwhile, back at the ballpark, the Cubs are on their way to losing 100 games. Hendry is an idiot for wanting Soriano and Kenny Williams is a genius for getting him.

You've seen pages and pages of criticizing the Cubs for thinking about Craig Wilson or Abreu? I sure as hell haven't. I'm not even sure there are pages criticizing them for thinking about Soriano. It's not the type of move I'd like to see them make, but I'm not adamently opposed to it either. I've seen Crawford brought up on occasion, usually in the positive.

people criticized possibly acquiring soriano before he changed his hitting strategy, began making pitchers throw him good pitches and became non-overrated for the first time in his career.

We, the fans, want the Cubs to improve OBP. The more guys they get on base, the more guys score. It isn't that anyone is opposed to a Soriano (if we ignore price tag), but rather this organization is in love with tools and has zero value for the walk. What that entails in the big picture is solo home runs and not much else.

If you build a team the right way, there's room for a poor OBP guy like Soriano in your line up. When the line up consists of poor OBP guys throughout, a guy like Soriano isn't going to help the team all that much.

I would have no issues at all sticking a Nomar or a Soriano in the 5 or 6 spot in the line up and let them beat the crap out of the ball and rarely ever take a pitch. However, for these guys to have true value at what they do, they need guys on base in front of them.

Someone said they didn't want crawford? When was this and where was I? A team that looked like this:

Crawford

Loretta

Lee

Ramirez

Jones

Soriano

Barrett

Cedeno

would be pretty good. That's two guys ahead of Lee that get on base nearly 36% of the time. I'd like to see more done to the line up than this, but this gives you an idea of how a couple of good OBP guys at the top and another power bat in the middle can turn a bad offense into a good offense.

Switch Cedeno with Tejada and let the fun begin on where you put everyone in the line up. A line up like that, and I wouldn't care if Neifi was coming off the bench, because no manager in their right mind would sit Loretta or Tejada very often.

The skeptics are probably mostly a little leery of what would need to be given up to land that kind of talent, not necessarily opposed to getting a Soriano or a Crawford.

Cubzfan64 · July 25, 2006

If you build a team the right way, there's room for a poor OBP guy like Soriano in your line up. When the line up consists of poor OBP guys throughout, a guy like Soriano isn't going to help the team all that much.

That in a nutshell is exactly what's been wrong with the Cubs for the last 2-3 years. Too many of the same kind of undisciplined hitters in the lineup - aggressive hitters are wonderful, but you have to be aggressive WITHIN the strikezone and force the pitchers to give in to YOU, not the other way around.

Put yourself in the shoes of a good opposing pitcher - how hard is it really to get ready to face the Cubs offense? The majority of them have the same offensive strategy of swinging at too many pitches out of the strikezone - I imagine the smart pitchers come in knowing that and in most cases have our guys swinging at THEIR pitches.

I had honestly hoped that one of the pluses of bringing Maddux over here was that being a smart pitcher who spent alot of time pitching with a bunch of other smart pitchers (most of who have always had success against the Cubs) with the Braves, he could have convinced our hitters to adjust their approach.

All in all this has just been the most pathetic season I can remember in my lifetime and I don't see much chance for any quick improvement based on our leaders track records of evaluating talent.

Hacking Out Machine · July 25, 2006

I'm really generalizing here, and I apologize for that ahead of time, but when there were rumors of the Cubs being interested in Soriano last year, many here hated it and said it was a typical Jim Hendry move for a tools guy with terrible plate discipline, etc.

Now the Sox are maybe getting him (and I like the move for them if they do), and many are saying how stupid the Cubs are for not doing something like this.

It seems like many of us want it both ways. We want to complain when the Cubs are rumored to like someone and say how stupid they are for doing so, then complain when some other teams gets the exact same guy and say the Cubs are stupid for not getting him.

Well said! It is fun discussing some of these rumors, but I've seen pages and pages criticizing the Cubs for thinking about Craig Wilson, Carl Crawford, Abreu, Soriano, etc. for a variety of statistical reasons. Meanwhile, back at the ballpark, the Cubs are on their way to losing 100 games. Hendry is an idiot for wanting Soriano and Kenny Williams is a genius for getting him.

You've seen pages and pages of criticizing the Cubs for thinking about Craig Wilson or Abreu? I sure as hell haven't. I'm not even sure there are pages criticizing them for thinking about Soriano. It's not the type of move I'd like to see them make, but I'm not adamently opposed to it either. I've seen Crawford brought up on occasion, usually in the positive.

people criticized possibly acquiring soriano before he changed his hitting strategy, began making pitchers throw him good pitches and became non-overrated for the first time in his career.

We, the fans, want the Cubs to improve OBP. The more guys they get on base, the more guys score. It isn't that anyone is opposed to a Soriano (if we ignore price tag), but rather this organization is in love with tools and has zero value for the walk. What that entails in the big picture is solo home runs and not much else.

If you build a team the right way, there's room for a poor OBP guy like Soriano in your line up. When the line up consists of poor OBP guys throughout, a guy like Soriano isn't going to help the team all that much.

I would have no issues at all sticking a Nomar or a Soriano in the 5 or 6 spot in the line up and let them beat the crap out of the ball and rarely ever take a pitch. However, for these guys to have true value at what they do, they need guys on base in front of them.

Someone said they didn't want crawford? When was this and where was I? A team that looked like this:

Crawford
Loretta
Lee
Ramirez
Jones
Soriano
Barrett
Cedeno

would be pretty good. That's two guys ahead of Lee that get on base nearly 36% of the time. I'd like to see more done to the line up than this, but this gives you an idea of how a couple of good OBP guys at the top and another power bat in the middle can turn a bad offense into a good offense.

Switch Cedeno with Tejada and let the fun begin on where you put everyone in the line up. A line up like that, and I wouldn't care if Neifi was coming off the bench, because no manager in their right mind would sit Loretta or Tejada very often.
The skeptics are probably mostly a little leery of what would need to be given up to land that kind of talent, not necessarily opposed to getting a Soriano or a Crawford.

Dusty would sit Loretta for Neifi in a heartbeat. But of course, he isn't in his right mind. Just like no manager in his right mind would play Jones everyday against lefties, Neifi against righties(3rd game in a row by the way), etc

baseball7897 · July 25, 2006

I'm really generalizing here, and I apologize for that ahead of time, but when there were rumors of the Cubs being interested in Soriano last year, many here hated it and said it was a typical Jim Hendry move for a tools guy with terrible plate discipline, etc.

Now the Sox are maybe getting him (and I like the move for them if they do), and many are saying how stupid the Cubs are for not doing something like this.

It seems like many of us want it both ways. We want to complain when the Cubs are rumored to like someone and say how stupid they are for doing so, then complain when some other teams gets the exact same guy and say the Cubs are stupid for not getting him.

Well said! It is fun discussing some of these rumors, but I've seen pages and pages criticizing the Cubs for thinking about Craig Wilson, Carl Crawford, Abreu, Soriano, etc. for a variety of statistical reasons. Meanwhile, back at the ballpark, the Cubs are on their way to losing 100 games. Hendry is an idiot for wanting Soriano and Kenny Williams is a genius for getting him.

You've seen pages and pages of criticizing the Cubs for thinking about Craig Wilson or Abreu? I sure as hell haven't. I'm not even sure there are pages criticizing them for thinking about Soriano. It's not the type of move I'd like to see them make, but I'm not adamently opposed to it either. I've seen Crawford brought up on occasion, usually in the positive.

people criticized possibly acquiring soriano before he changed his hitting strategy, began making pitchers throw him good pitches and became non-overrated for the first time in his career.

We, the fans, want the Cubs to improve OBP. The more guys they get on base, the more guys score. It isn't that anyone is opposed to a Soriano (if we ignore price tag), but rather this organization is in love with tools and has zero value for the walk. What that entails in the big picture is solo home runs and not much else.

If you build a team the right way, there's room for a poor OBP guy like Soriano in your line up. When the line up consists of poor OBP guys throughout, a guy like Soriano isn't going to help the team all that much.

I would have no issues at all sticking a Nomar or a Soriano in the 5 or 6 spot in the line up and let them beat the crap out of the ball and rarely ever take a pitch. However, for these guys to have true value at what they do, they need guys on base in front of them.

Someone said they didn't want crawford? When was this and where was I? A team that looked like this:

Crawford
Loretta
Lee
Ramirez
Jones
Soriano
Barrett
Cedeno

would be pretty good. That's two guys ahead of Lee that get on base nearly 36% of the time. I'd like to see more done to the line up than this, but this gives you an idea of how a couple of good OBP guys at the top and another power bat in the middle can turn a bad offense into a good offense.

Switch Cedeno with Tejada and let the fun begin on where you put everyone in the line up. A line up like that, and I wouldn't care if Neifi was coming off the bench, because no manager in their right mind would sit Loretta or Tejada very often.
The skeptics are probably mostly a little leery of what would need to be given up to land that kind of talent, not necessarily opposed to getting a Soriano or a Crawford.

Dusty would sit Loretta for Neifi in a heartbeat. But of course, he isn't in his right mind. Just like no manager in his right mind would play Jones everyday against lefties, Neifi against righties(3rd game in a row by the way), etc

Loretta will not sign with the Cubs. He made that public in 03 when the Cubs were after him before getting Ramirez.

Jon · July 25, 2006

Loretta will not sign with the Cubs. He made that public in 03 when the Cubs were after him before getting Ramirez.

Why wouldn't he come back to Chicago?

oldcubsfan · July 25, 2006

The game isn't value ball, it's baseball and Todd Walker's name should not be even associated with Soriano's. Good grief, some people should watch a game and then try to tell us Walker is a good ballplayer.
Yeah, who would favor two statistically better seasons from a second baseman over a corner outfielder at a fifth of the price? Those folks are really out there.

So you are trying to tell me that Walker is having a statistically better season than Soriano? IF so, that has to be the funniest thing I"ve read in a long time.

If Walker is such a value, why aren't teams lined up for him? They seem to be lined up for Soriano, but Walker seems to be not such a hot item? Why would that be?

Jon · July 25, 2006

The game isn't value ball, it's baseball and Todd Walker's name should not be even associated with Soriano's. Good grief, some people should watch a game and then try to tell us Walker is a good ballplayer.
Yeah, who would favor two statistically better seasons from a second baseman over a corner outfielder at a fifth of the price? Those folks are really out there.
So you are trying to tell me that Walker is having a statistically better season than Soriano? IF so, that has to be the funniest thing I"ve read in a long time.
If Walker is such a value, why aren't teams lined up for him? They seem to be lined up for Soriano, but Walker seems to be not such a hot item? Why would that be?

Just about everything about Walker's stats have quite clearly been about 2004 and 2005. You can try to twists things all you want, but you'll have to do a better job than that.

WSox get MacDougal; 'extremely close' to acquiring Soriano?

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