WSox get MacDougal; 'extremely close' to acquiring Soriano?

[Burtonbell]

If you guys ever want to see the Cubs win a world series in your lifetime, your gonna need superstars on your team like Soriano, not a bunch of prospects or guys like Cedeno and Matt Murton

 

 

Huh? You do realize teams win the world series with guys like Cedeno and Murton right?

[UMFan83]

If you guys ever want to see the Cubs win a world series in your lifetime, your gonna need superstars on your team like Soriano, not a bunch of prospects or guys like Cedeno and Matt Murton

 

Yup, that's what doomed the Indians of the mid-90's. They should have been trading for guys like Cecil Fielder and Robin Ventura instead of holding onto those bum prospects Manny Ramirez and "Joey" Belle

 

Edit: And man, if only the Braves decided to strike it big with Charles Nagy and David Cone, they wouldn't have been doomed to years of mediocrity with John Smoltz and Tom Glavine.

Edited July 24, 2006 by UMFan83

[goonys evil twin]

I have never supported the idea of getting Soriano. I admit that he's been somewhat productive.

Somewhat productive? Um, his OPS is the 7th best in the league. I'm pretty sure that's more than "somewhat productive."

 

I was referring to the past. He has been somewhat productive. This year is a career year, and he's been very productive. But the past two his OPS+ was just below and just above 100, basically average.

[C.C.]

He's now a 30-year-old corner OF with a career .835 OPS. He's peaking in his contract season, but his last two years were .807 and .821. He's not a $10m player.

 

He's going to get at least 10m a year come next year. It's what the current market demands. I mean is Furcal worth 13m a year? Is AJ Burnett worth 5\60 million?

[Tracer Bullet]

I was off the Soriano bandwagon last year because I could see that our glaring problem was OBP and defense. Soriano provided neither. The other reason I was off of it beacuse I thought we could find a bigger name and/or a better fit. We got Matt Lawton.

 

soriano's putting up a .361 OBP this year.

 

Yeah, but does he walk? :wink:

 

10 more than each of the last 2 full seasons. 43 BBs in 399 ABs. About 70 points difference b/t AVG and OBP.

 

It's amazing how much easier it is to walk when you are hitting HR's left and right and are surrounded by Vidro and Johnson rather then Teixiera and Young

 

Hey, I'm not arguing that he's suddenly found patience and a good eye. I think Soriano is overrated and will burn someone this year. But the fact is, his OBP is higher than his career OBP b/c he is walking more than he has in the past (his average is in line w/ his career numbers).

[C.C.]

If you guys ever want to see the Cubs win a world series in your lifetime, your gonna need superstars on your team like Soriano, not a bunch of prospects or guys like Cedeno and Matt Murton

 

 

Huh? You do realize teams win the world series with guys like Cedeno and Murton right?

 

Well I wouldn't go that far.

[Tracer Bullet]

If you guys ever want to see the Cubs win a world series in your lifetime, your gonna need superstars on your team like Soriano, not a bunch of prospects or guys like Cedeno and Matt Murton

 

If a corner OF w/ an .835 is a Superstar, you can have all the Superstars you want. At 2B, that's good; for corner OF, it's nothing special.

 

I want good baseball players, hype or not. Soriano's all hype.

[baseball7897]

This not going to be the final piece to win them another World Series. Getting a Jason Schmidt type pitcher would be the final piece. And why are they getting rid of one of their better bullpen guys?

 

Face it, McCarthy is going to be a starter, not a reliever. Plus he has been extremely inconsistant as a reliever this year. Would you really want basically a rookie pitching out of your pen as one of your more important setup guys down the stretch, or would you take an established pitcher like MacDougal? Not that tough of a decision to make.

 

The Sox have a surplus of starting pitching, both in the bigs and in the minors. It seems as if Williams has decided he's keeping Garcia and Vazquez long term though if he does trade McCarthy. He's taking a big gamble, but I'm pretty sure he's going to try to do everything to re-sign Soriano in the offseason.

 

Last year, he spoke out against getting AJ Burnett because he didn't want a guy for 2 months. Obviously Burnett commanded a high contract. Soriano will too, but I believe the Sox have the funding now where they can afford to pay Soriano after this season as well.

 

Macdougal is not a difference maker. He has only pitched 4 innings this year. Yeah he helps the bullpen, but can he stay healthy the rest of the year should be the question.

[RationalSoxFan]

If they flip Soriano, what for? Anyone? I'm as confused as anyone, this deal does not make any sense whatsoever. They have no use for Fields, and McCarthy hasn't shown A LOT at the big league level. Edited July 24, 2006 by RationalSoxFan

[CP_414]

If you guys ever want to see the Cubs win a world series in your lifetime, your gonna need superstars on your team like Soriano, not a bunch of prospects or guys like Cedeno and Matt Murton

 

If a corner OF w/ an .835 is a Superstar, you can have all the Superstars you want. At 2B, that's good; for corner OF, it's nothing special.

 

I want good baseball players, hype or not. Soriano's all hype.

 

Thats a little over the top. Has he been overrated in the past? You bet.

 

This year he is hitting almost .300, OBP over .360 and he is on his way to 40 HR's, 40 doubles, and 40 steals. I don't think it's fair to say he is "all hype" at this point.

 

Will he do it again next year? I have no idea. He is doing it now though.

[C.C.]

If you guys ever want to see the Cubs win a world series in your lifetime, your gonna need superstars on your team like Soriano, not a bunch of prospects or guys like Cedeno and Matt Murton

 

If a corner OF w/ an .835 is a Superstar, you can have all the Superstars you want. At 2B, that's good; for corner OF, it's nothing special.

 

I want good baseball players, hype or not. Soriano's all hype.

 

Thats a little over the top. Has he been overrated in the past? You bet.

 

This year he is hitting almost .300, OBP over .360 and he is on his way to 40 HR's, 40 doubles, and 40 steals. I don't think it's fair to say he is "all hype" at this point.

 

Will he do it again next year? I have no idea. He is doing it now though.

 

Agreed! Hype or not look at his numbers this year. Can't deny he's having a great year.

[Tracer Bullet]

He's now a 30-year-old corner OF with a career .835 OPS. He's peaking in his contract season, but his last two years were .807 and .821. He's not a $10m player.

 

He's going to get at least 10m a year come next year. It's what the current market demands. I mean is Furcal worth 13m a year? Is AJ Burnett worth 5\60 million?

 

No and no. Just b/c people are stupid enough to pay average players crazy money doesn't mean you jump into the stupid pool.

 

He may get $10m from someone next year, in fact I'd be surprised if he didn't, but he'll be 31 next year and he has a career .835 OPS. For a corner OF, that's above average, but not $10m worth.

 

Put it this way - the team that pays him $10m next year is not going to get a good return on their investment (disclaimer - if he moves back to 2B that helps, but I still think $10m is too much - Walker had a better OPS each of the last 2 seasons).

[CP_414]

I don't know what the answer to this is, but has there ever been a 50/40/40 season?

 

On his current pace Soriano will hit 51 HR's/41 doubles/ and have 41 steals.

[Tracer Bullet]

If you guys ever want to see the Cubs win a world series in your lifetime, your gonna need superstars on your team like Soriano, not a bunch of prospects or guys like Cedeno and Matt Murton

 

If a corner OF w/ an .835 is a Superstar, you can have all the Superstars you want. At 2B, that's good; for corner OF, it's nothing special.

 

I want good baseball players, hype or not. Soriano's all hype.

 

Thats a little over the top. Has he been overrated in the past? You bet.

 

This year he is hitting almost .300, OBP over .360 and he is on his way to 40 HR's, 40 doubles, and 40 steals. I don't think it's fair to say he is "all hype" at this point.

 

Will he do it again next year? I have no idea. He is doing it now though.

 

Will he do it for the next 3 months? I don't have any idea about that either, but his career numbers suggest otherwise (esp if you put him back in the AL - the NL East isn't exactly full of dominant pitchers).

 

If Soriano's 400 ABs this year make him a Superstar, that's just insane. His career numbers, esp w/ that .325 OBP, are nothing special.

[abuck1220]

If you guys ever want to see the Cubs win a world series in your lifetime, your gonna need superstars on your team like Soriano, not a bunch of prospects or guys like Cedeno and Matt Murton

 

If a corner OF w/ an .835 is a Superstar, you can have all the Superstars you want. At 2B, that's good; for corner OF, it's nothing special.

 

I want good baseball players, hype or not. Soriano's all hype.

 

Thats a little over the top. Has he been overrated in the past? You bet.

 

This year he is hitting almost .300, OBP over .360 and he is on his way to 40 HR's, 40 doubles, and 40 steals. I don't think it's fair to say he is "all hype" at this point.

 

Will he do it again next year? I have no idea. He is doing it now though.

 

Will he do it for the next 3 months? I don't have any idea about that either, but his career numbers suggest otherwise (esp if you put him back in the AL - the NL East isn't exactly full of dominant pitchers).

 

If Soriano's 400 ABs this year make him a Superstar, that's just insane. His career numbers, esp w/ that .325 OBP, are nothing special.

 

it's full of huge ballparks, though. especially the one he plays half his games in.

[PrimeTime]

If Soriano played at Wrigley all year, the guy would have like 60 HR's in our hitters park

[CP_414]

If you guys ever want to see the Cubs win a world series in your lifetime, your gonna need superstars on your team like Soriano, not a bunch of prospects or guys like Cedeno and Matt Murton

 

If a corner OF w/ an .835 is a Superstar, you can have all the Superstars you want. At 2B, that's good; for corner OF, it's nothing special.

 

I want good baseball players, hype or not. Soriano's all hype.

 

Thats a little over the top. Has he been overrated in the past? You bet.

 

This year he is hitting almost .300, OBP over .360 and he is on his way to 40 HR's, 40 doubles, and 40 steals. I don't think it's fair to say he is "all hype" at this point.

 

Will he do it again next year? I have no idea. He is doing it now though.

 

Will he do it for the next 3 months? I don't have any idea about that either, but his career numbers suggest otherwise (esp if you put him back in the AL - the NL East isn't exactly full of dominant pitchers).

 

If Soriano's 400 ABs this year make him a Superstar, that's just insane. His career numbers, esp w/ that .325 OBP, are nothing special.

 

As I said in my post he has been overrated in his career. However, as much as I value OBP I realize a player can be productive with a sub-par OBP. I think it may be the most important stat in the game, but if you have great power you have a lot to add anyway.

 

For his entire career Soriano has a 162 game seasonal average of 35 HR's/35 Steals/40 doubles, a .281 lifetime average and a .511 slugging percentage. His OBP is subpar at .325. That is the main reason why I have said he has been overrated in the past. This season, he is a superstar. Throughout his career he has been very productive offensively (not all hype).

 

Soriano is a lock to get a contract over $10M next year. It will probably be closer to $13M than $10M. I'm not saying I want Hendry to give him that much, but I think you are downplaying the success he has had in his career.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

it's full of huge ballparks, though. especially the one he plays half his games in.

 

All other ballparks in that division are bottom half (Fish park is last), but RFK is actually #6, right behind Wrigley.

[Tracer Bullet]

If you guys ever want to see the Cubs win a world series in your lifetime, your gonna need superstars on your team like Soriano, not a bunch of prospects or guys like Cedeno and Matt Murton

 

If a corner OF w/ an .835 is a Superstar, you can have all the Superstars you want. At 2B, that's good; for corner OF, it's nothing special.

 

I want good baseball players, hype or not. Soriano's all hype.

 

Thats a little over the top. Has he been overrated in the past? You bet.

 

This year he is hitting almost .300, OBP over .360 and he is on his way to 40 HR's, 40 doubles, and 40 steals. I don't think it's fair to say he is "all hype" at this point.

 

Will he do it again next year? I have no idea. He is doing it now though.

 

Agreed! Hype or not look at his numbers this year. Can't deny he's having a great year.

 

You're right, he's had 4 outstanding months.

 

Actually, he's had 1 outstanding part-month (July 1.300+ OPS), 2 really good months (April/May) and 1 terrible month (June - .698 OPS). So you're going to make a trade based on less than 300 really good ABs (against some not so great pitchers) this season? Or might you temper that against his past 5 seasons (aged 25-29) where he averaged an OPS of .821?

 

4 months does not a superstar make.

[CP_414]

it's full of huge ballparks, though. especially the one he plays half his games in.

 

All other ballparks in that division are bottom half (Fish park is last), but RFK is actually #6, right behind Wrigley.

 

How do those stats work? Is it skewed by the fact that Soriano is producing so much in spite of the size of the ballpark? Is it based on number of HR's hit in that park? If so, that says more about the home team than the park, doesn't it?

[Tracer Bullet]

it's full of huge ballparks, though. especially the one he plays half his games in.

 

OPS Home/Road - 1.042/.879

 

Doesn't seem to be bothered by the size of his home park.

[Tracer Bullet]

If Soriano played at Wrigley all year, the guy would have like 60 HR's in our hitters park

 

See Pedro's post above. That's just wrong.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

it's full of huge ballparks, though. especially the one he plays half his games in.

 

All other ballparks in that division are bottom half (Fish park is last), but RFK is actually #6, right behind Wrigley.

 

How do those stats work? Is it skewed by the fact that Soriano is producing so much in spite of the size of the ballpark? Is it based on number of HR's hit in that park? If so, that says more about the home team than the park, doesn't it?

 

PF = ((homeRS + homeRA)/(homeG)) / ((roadRS + roadRA)/(roadG))

[Jon]

What's the point of this deal exactly?

[abuck1220]

it's full of huge ballparks, though. especially the one he plays half his games in.

 

OPS Home/Road - 1.042/.879

 

Doesn't seem to be bothered by the size of his home park.

 

exactly. imagine how he'd be doing if he was hitting in a good park.