Will anyone on the coach. staff acknowledge the 8 BB's today

[badger1679666666]

We walk 8 times and score 11 runs... I wish this team and it's leadership would take notice of this and stop preaching aggressivness.

[rawaction]

Nope. 4-10 with RISP. 4 runs came across without a hit scoring them.

 

Conclusion- Agressive clutch hitting and small ball works.

[CubColtPacer]

We walk 8 times and score 11 runs... I wish this team and it's leadership would take notice of this and stop preaching aggressivness.

 

Remember before I say this that I like walks much better than Dusty seems to..but what if I came on the board last Sunday and said see...the Cubs took 0 walks, and scored 15 runs! It looks like they should keep preaching agressiveness. I would be roasted for looking at that one game as evidence, because the 2 stats are not well correlated. So it's silly to look at this game as evidence of the other side, however a help it might have been.

[cubfan1955]

We walk 8 times and score 11 runs... I wish this team and it's leadership would take notice of this and stop preaching aggressivness.

Not to be picky but it was 9 walks. 8)

[hardcorecubfan]

walks clog the bases

[D BABY BULL]

And hits unclog them!

[louisvillecub]

walks clog the bases

 

You can't walk across home plate.. :wink:

[otis89]

walks clog the bases

 

You can't walk across home plate.. :wink:

 

Tell that to Nevin.

[jyoung55]

We walk 8 times and score 11 runs... I wish this team and it's leadership would take notice of this and stop preaching aggressivness.

 

Remember before I say this that I like walks much better than Dusty seems to..but what if I came on the board last Sunday and said see...the Cubs took 0 walks, and scored 15 runs! It looks like they should keep preaching agressiveness. I would be roasted for looking at that one game as evidence, because the 2 stats are not well correlated. So it's silly to look at this game as evidence of the other side, however a help it might have been.

 

Yoda is that you?

[bhogg]

my biggest fear is that the goob that runs this team might have had his mind made up before the beercrew series that baker was gone. Now, that goob might be thinking "oh, they've turned the corner" and baker will remain.

[CubsBullsBears]

walks clog the bases

unless you can run.

[InconspicuousZ28]

walks clog the bases

unless you can run.

 

Speed kills, man.

[NCCubFan]

Speed kills, man.

So does LSD, heroine, cocaine, etc. :lol:

[texascub]

walks clog the bases

 

You can't walk across home plate.. :wink:

 

Tell that to Nevin.

 

I believe it was Barrett that walked home, was it not?

[CuseCubFan69]

walks clog the bases

 

You can't walk across home plate.. :wink:

 

Tell that to Nevin.

 

I believe it was Barrett that walked home, was it not?

 

Dusty to this day still thinks Barrett stole home.

[stitchface]

We walk 8 times and score 11 runs... I wish this team and it's leadership would take notice of this and stop preaching aggressivness.

 

Remember before I say this that I like walks much better than Dusty seems to..but what if I came on the board last Sunday and said see...the Cubs took 0 walks, and scored 15 runs! It looks like they should keep preaching agressiveness. I would be roasted for looking at that one game as evidence, because the 2 stats are not well correlated. So it's silly to look at this game as evidence of the other side, however a help it might have been.

 

except the stats are well correlated (that is obp and runs)

[Magnetic Curses]

We walk 8 times and score 11 runs... I wish this team and it's leadership would take notice of this and stop preaching aggressivness.

 

Remember before I say this that I like walks much better than Dusty seems to..but what if I came on the board last Sunday and said see...the Cubs took 0 walks, and scored 15 runs! It looks like they should keep preaching agressiveness. I would be roasted for looking at that one game as evidence, because the 2 stats are not well correlated. So it's silly to look at this game as evidence of the other side, however a help it might have been.

 

the thing is, we will be able to score 10+ runs more often if we continue to walk. teams that rely solely on having hot bats to score runs don't score very many at all, although they may have days when they score 10-15 because some BP pitcher is on the mound and keeps throwing first ball fastballs to guys that couldn't lay off their attractive cousin at a family reunion.

[Magnetic Curses]

We walk 8 times and score 11 runs... I wish this team and it's leadership would take notice of this and stop preaching aggressivness.

 

Remember before I say this that I like walks much better than Dusty seems to..but what if I came on the board last Sunday and said see...the Cubs took 0 walks, and scored 15 runs! It looks like they should keep preaching agressiveness. I would be roasted for looking at that one game as evidence, because the 2 stats are not well correlated. So it's silly to look at this game as evidence of the other side, however a help it might have been.

 

except the stats are well correlated (that is obp and runs)

 

i prefer to look at it as "not making outs".

[CubColtPacer]

We walk 8 times and score 11 runs... I wish this team and it's leadership would take notice of this and stop preaching aggressivness.

 

Remember before I say this that I like walks much better than Dusty seems to..but what if I came on the board last Sunday and said see...the Cubs took 0 walks, and scored 15 runs! It looks like they should keep preaching agressiveness. I would be roasted for looking at that one game as evidence, because the 2 stats are not well correlated. So it's silly to look at this game as evidence of the other side, however a help it might have been.

 

except the stats are well correlated (that is obp and runs)

 

Yes, but OBP is not exactly what we are talking about here. Most of the correlation between OBP and runs is inherent in the correlation between batting average and runs. For example..there are 11 teams with over 300 walks this season. 6 are in the top 10 of runs scored, 2 are between 11-20, and 3 of those teams are in the bottom 10 of runs scored. Out of the bottom 5 teams in walks, 1 of them is in the top 10 of runs scored, 2 are in between 11-20, and 2 are in the bottom 10.

 

Also, look at this. The average number of walks by the division of 10

Top 10: 313.2 BB's

2nd 10: 277.2 BB's

Last 10: 280.4 BB's

 

Do walks have an affect on runs? Definitely. Does it have as much of an affect as a change in batting average? Not a chance. That's why OPS is such a good stat in evaluating runs for a team. The top 10 teams in OPS are also the top 10 teams in runs scored. That has direct correlation-while walks do not. And remember, it is walks alone we are talking about, since the original posted did not say that we had 9 walks and also had so many hits, which would be the components of OBP. Instead, he singularly wanted the Cubs to walk more, and walks have only a slight to moderate correlation to runs scored.

[3Dog]

i prefer to look at it as "not making outs".

 

YES!! YES!! Someone gets it!!!!

 

Though I'm sure many more of you out there do too......

[stitchface]

We walk 8 times and score 11 runs... I wish this team and it's leadership would take notice of this and stop preaching aggressivness.

 

Remember before I say this that I like walks much better than Dusty seems to..but what if I came on the board last Sunday and said see...the Cubs took 0 walks, and scored 15 runs! It looks like they should keep preaching agressiveness. I would be roasted for looking at that one game as evidence, because the 2 stats are not well correlated. So it's silly to look at this game as evidence of the other side, however a help it might have been.

 

except the stats are well correlated (that is obp and runs)

 

Yes, but OBP is not exactly what we are talking about here. Most of the correlation between OBP and runs is inherent in the correlation between batting average and runs. For example..there are 11 teams with over 300 walks this season. 6 are in the top 10 of runs scored, 2 are between 11-20, and 3 of those teams are in the bottom 10 of runs scored. Out of the bottom 5 teams in walks, 1 of them is in the top 10 of runs scored, 2 are in between 11-20, and 2 are in the bottom 10.

 

Also, look at this. The average number of walks by the division of 10

Top 10: 313.2 BB's

2nd 10: 277.2 BB's

Last 10: 280.4 BB's

 

Do walks have an affect on runs? Definitely. Does it have as much of an affect as a change in batting average? Not a chance. That's why OPS is such a good stat in evaluating runs for a team. The top 10 teams in OPS are also the top 10 teams in runs scored. That has direct correlation-while walks do not. And remember, it is walks alone we are talking about, since the original posted did not say that we had 9 walks and also had so many hits, which would be the components of OBP. Instead, he singularly wanted the Cubs to walk more, and walks have only a slight to moderate correlation to runs scored.

 

except the stats are well correlated (that is obp and runs)

[CubColtPacer]

We walk 8 times and score 11 runs... I wish this team and it's leadership would take notice of this and stop preaching aggressivness.

 

Remember before I say this that I like walks much better than Dusty seems to..but what if I came on the board last Sunday and said see...the Cubs took 0 walks, and scored 15 runs! It looks like they should keep preaching agressiveness. I would be roasted for looking at that one game as evidence, because the 2 stats are not well correlated. So it's silly to look at this game as evidence of the other side, however a help it might have been.

 

except the stats are well correlated (that is obp and runs)

 

Yes, but OBP is not exactly what we are talking about here. Most of the correlation between OBP and runs is inherent in the correlation between batting average and runs. For example..there are 11 teams with over 300 walks this season. 6 are in the top 10 of runs scored, 2 are between 11-20, and 3 of those teams are in the bottom 10 of runs scored. Out of the bottom 5 teams in walks, 1 of them is in the top 10 of runs scored, 2 are in between 11-20, and 2 are in the bottom 10.

 

Also, look at this. The average number of walks by the division of 10

Top 10: 313.2 BB's

2nd 10: 277.2 BB's

Last 10: 280.4 BB's

 

Do walks have an affect on runs? Definitely. Does it have as much of an affect as a change in batting average? Not a chance. That's why OPS is such a good stat in evaluating runs for a team. The top 10 teams in OPS are also the top 10 teams in runs scored. That has direct correlation-while walks do not. And remember, it is walks alone we are talking about, since the original posted did not say that we had 9 walks and also had so many hits, which would be the components of OBP. Instead, he singularly wanted the Cubs to walk more, and walks have only a slight to moderate correlation to runs scored.

 

except the stats are well correlated (that is obp and runs)

 

Ok, that's fine. I will say that it is irrelevant to this discussion however, since the original poster was talking about the effect walks have on runs, not overall OBP. When I said that the stats were not well correlated, I was talking about walks as well, so therefore your statement is irrelevant to the current discussion and has no impact on my original statement. The primary reason that OBP and runs are decently well correlated is the difference in batting average (and still not nearly as well correlated as OPS). Differences in walks play a smaller role in run production, which is what I was saying to the original poster.

[CubinNY]

We walk 8 times and score 11 runs... I wish this team and it's leadership would take notice of this and stop preaching aggressivness.

 

Remember before I say this that I like walks much better than Dusty seems to..but what if I came on the board last Sunday and said see...the Cubs took 0 walks, and scored 15 runs! It looks like they should keep preaching agressiveness. I would be roasted for looking at that one game as evidence, because the 2 stats are not well correlated. So it's silly to look at this game as evidence of the other side, however a help it might have been.

 

except the stats are well correlated (that is obp and runs)

 

Yes, but OBP is not exactly what we are talking about here. Most of the correlation between OBP and runs is inherent in the correlation between batting average and runs. For example..there are 11 teams with over 300 walks this season. 6 are in the top 10 of runs scored, 2 are between 11-20, and 3 of those teams are in the bottom 10 of runs scored. Out of the bottom 5 teams in walks, 1 of them is in the top 10 of runs scored, 2 are in between 11-20, and 2 are in the bottom 10.

 

Also, look at this. The average number of walks by the division of 10

Top 10: 313.2 BB's

2nd 10: 277.2 BB's

Last 10: 280.4 BB's

 

Do walks have an affect on runs? Definitely. Does it have as much of an affect as a change in batting average? Not a chance. That's why OPS is such a good stat in evaluating runs for a team. The top 10 teams in OPS are also the top 10 teams in runs scored. That has direct correlation-while walks do not. And remember, it is walks alone we are talking about, since the original posted did not say that we had 9 walks and also had so many hits, which would be the components of OBP. Instead, he singularly wanted the Cubs to walk more, and walks have only a slight to moderate correlation to runs scored.

 

except the stats are well correlated (that is obp and runs)

 

Ok, that's fine. I will say that it is irrelevant to this discussion however, since the original poster was talking about the effect walks have on runs, not overall OBP. When I said that the stats were not well correlated, I was talking about walks as well, so therefore your statement is irrelevant to the current discussion and has no impact on my original statement. The primary reason that OBP and runs are decently well correlated is the difference in batting average (and still not nearly as well correlated as OPS). Differences in walks play a smaller role in run production, which is what I was saying to the original poster.

 

What you are missing, and this is big, I mean really big, is that you cannot take walks out of OBP or OPS.

 

Walks are important.

[CubColtPacer]

We walk 8 times and score 11 runs... I wish this team and it's leadership would take notice of this and stop preaching aggressivness.

 

Remember before I say this that I like walks much better than Dusty seems to..but what if I came on the board last Sunday and said see...the Cubs took 0 walks, and scored 15 runs! It looks like they should keep preaching agressiveness. I would be roasted for looking at that one game as evidence, because the 2 stats are not well correlated. So it's silly to look at this game as evidence of the other side, however a help it might have been.

 

except the stats are well correlated (that is obp and runs)

 

Yes, but OBP is not exactly what we are talking about here. Most of the correlation between OBP and runs is inherent in the correlation between batting average and runs. For example..there are 11 teams with over 300 walks this season. 6 are in the top 10 of runs scored, 2 are between 11-20, and 3 of those teams are in the bottom 10 of runs scored. Out of the bottom 5 teams in walks, 1 of them is in the top 10 of runs scored, 2 are in between 11-20, and 2 are in the bottom 10.

 

Also, look at this. The average number of walks by the division of 10

Top 10: 313.2 BB's

2nd 10: 277.2 BB's

Last 10: 280.4 BB's

 

Do walks have an affect on runs? Definitely. Does it have as much of an affect as a change in batting average? Not a chance. That's why OPS is such a good stat in evaluating runs for a team. The top 10 teams in OPS are also the top 10 teams in runs scored. That has direct correlation-while walks do not. And remember, it is walks alone we are talking about, since the original posted did not say that we had 9 walks and also had so many hits, which would be the components of OBP. Instead, he singularly wanted the Cubs to walk more, and walks have only a slight to moderate correlation to runs scored.

 

except the stats are well correlated (that is obp and runs)

 

Ok, that's fine. I will say that it is irrelevant to this discussion however, since the original poster was talking about the effect walks have on runs, not overall OBP. When I said that the stats were not well correlated, I was talking about walks as well, so therefore your statement is irrelevant to the current discussion and has no impact on my original statement. The primary reason that OBP and runs are decently well correlated is the difference in batting average (and still not nearly as well correlated as OPS). Differences in walks play a smaller role in run production, which is what I was saying to the original poster.

 

What you are missing, and this is big, I mean really big, is that you cannot take walks out of OBP or OPS.

 

Walks are important.

 

I'm not taking walks out of OBP. What I am doing is separating OBP into the two primary components: batting average, and walks. HBP and a couple other things figure in, but those things are too rare to truly make a significant difference. Now why does OBP correlate decently with runs? Is it because of the batting average part, or the walks? The stats clearly show that differences in batting average are the primary reason why some teams score more runs then others. An increase in walks do cause an increase in runs generally, but this link is much more fragile then differences in batting average. The evidence clearly shows that if you had to have a team that was in the top 10 team in batting average or the top 10 in walks, you would clearly take the top 10 in batting average. Of course, it would be even better to take one of the top 10 teams in OBP, because it takes the large effect of batting average and adds the small effect of walks. Do walks matter? Yes. However, you want the team with a .360 OBP and a .284 average rather then the same team with a .360 OBP and a .271 average. You are going to get many more runs out of the first team than the second team on average, even though the second team walks many more times on average.

OPS has such a direct correlation with runs scored because it gives walks it's place while essentially double counting hits-because a hit both adds to your OBP, and also increases your slugging. So a hit is definitely worth a great deal more than a walk, and the OPS numbers show this.

[Outshined_One]

There are a few things worth noting about that argument...

 

For one, AVG is a streaky measure and indicator of performance. Many people on this board are proponents of metrics like BABIP because, frankly, accumulating a high average oftentimes requires luck. Granted, some guys are able to put up those numbers thanks to line drives and hard hit balls. However, frankly speaking, it's pretty easy for hitters to have fluctuations in their batting averages from season to season.

 

That said, there is something to be said for the importance of walks beyond not making outs. A player's IsoD is a very good indicator of how selective and patient he is at the plate. One of the problems with this team is the fact that most of these guys have little to no ability when it comes to judging balls at the plate. A guy who draws a lot of walks is likely a very selective and smart hitter at the plate, you know?