Pujols Implicated in the Grimsley deal

[mul21]

If he were a Cub, would you feel the same?

 

 

Absolutely. I hate the fact that Sosa has been accused of using steroids and that he corked his bat. There is no reason anybody should be allowed to break records and make millions outside of the established rules. I don't care if he plays for the Cubs, Cards, or DRays.

[Soul]

I'd love to just throw down and full-on accuse Pujols, because honestly I've suspected him for years. But I've got to wait for more evidence that this, even if it does come from a Cards-friendly site.

 

On a side note: McGwire, now Pujols. If this did turn out to be true, what does that say about LaRussa and Jocketty? Don't tell me they don't know, because as the good ole boys say "son, that dog won't hunt."

[Peoriaman]

Cardinal management knew/knows, just like Cub management did on Sosa.

[jkrapfl]

I'd love to just throw down and full-on accuse Pujols, because honestly I've suspected him for years. But I've got to wait for more evidence that this, even if it does come from a Cards-friendly site.

 

On a side note: McGwire, now Pujols. If this did turn out to be true, what does that say about LaRussa and Jocketty? Don't tell me they don't know, because as the good ole boys say "son, that dog won't hunt."

 

Don't forget that LaRussa can also be linked to Canseco and Giambi, two admitted steroid users. At some point, he had to know something was going on.

[CubbieRich]

Mighty Poolie--There seems to be some question about your physical development. Even though the Cardinals newspaper has put it's head in the sand and won't even mention your name this morning. Please put an end to this madness. Take the WADA-approved HGH test(and to Cards apologists-there is a reliable HGH test) in Downers Grove. It's a little pricey but not to worry-I will pay for it. Not surprised third-rate St. Louis lackey Bernie M. of the PD hasn't offered the same.

 

Poolie--You have time on your hands now because of your injury. By the way, how'd did Larussa know you'd be out for a month without an MRI test to actually see what was wrong with you? That Tony is a special guy when it comes to things legal and medical. I know you won't make yourself available to the media during these trying times. Someone, not from St. Louis, may ask a question you won't like.

 

So Poolie, come take the test. Don't hide behind your religion, your kids, your wife, your manager or anyone else. Be the Mighty Poolie and be a man. Imagine what a thrill it will be for Cards fans to have you come out of the clinic and then point to the sky-because you're clean. I'll even buy you a beer at Uncle Bub's Bar-B-Q when you're done.

 

Let me know when you think that will happen.

 

If he were a Cub, would you feel the same?

 

You betcha. Sammy was taking something and everyone knew it-especially MacPhail, Hendry and Dusty. Dobn't forget Bud Selig and Donald Fehr To clean this up, you start at the top and work your way down. Nailing Grimsley scares no one. Linking that to Bonds, Pujols, Giambi, Soas etc..scares everyone.

 

I noticed that the Cards fans are understandably silent. Just the prospect of anyone asking Poolie about HG frightens them. Small town hack Bernie M. will never ask him. Where's he gonna work next? East Moline?

[Fro]

People are going to be shocked when they find out how many people were roiding, and how many people are using HGH and other things that urine samples can't detect.

 

BALCO was just the tip of the iceberg.

[TheDude]

I have found it funny that no one thinks Pujols is cheating. This year he was on pace to hit what 70+ HRs?

 

Homeruns are up all across baseball. Why? You could argue that the hitters are cheating, but there is an equally viable argument that states it's due to lack of pitchers cheating.

 

Afterall, the majority of positive tests for banned substances thus far has occurred in pitchers, not hitters.

[Soul]

Cardinal management knew/knows, just like Cub management did on Sosa.

 

Of course. But with the Cards, it's starting to look like an organizational philosophy. That's a tad bit worse than just Sosa. Though I admit: Cubs obviously knew Sosa was juicing; they should be called on the carpet just like anyone else who knew.

 

"You knew, and did nothing?" You should have no place in the game. I don't care if it decimates baseball for a few years. I'm all for rooting out every single juicer and their support people, whoever they are. I'd rather have a clean game, even if it means ripping out many of the big names in baseball. So what? In 5 years, the game would be back and clean. I'll make that sacrifice any day of the week.

 

I'll bet such a cleansing would take out more Cards than Cubs though.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Some of you would actually be happy to hear this? As a baseball fan, I hope no players (although I know this won't happen) ever get busted again. Especially a player like Pujols. I would say the same for a player like DLee. These type of players need to be clean, not only for their fans, but for Baseball as a sport.

 

It's a catch-22. We are unfortunately not going to have our players clean until someone like Pujols or Bonds or DLee are shown to not be clean. Jason Grimsley on HGH does nothing to taint the image of the game or cause long-term changes for the good of the game. Pujols on anything will.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I got to tell you, all of this on top of the frustrations of being a lifelong Cub fan seeing the promise of the early 2000s continue to get more distant with each ever-more-lame season has me about 1 millimeter from abandoning baseball altogether. And looking around at all of MLB, there can't be more than a couple of teams whose fans could be enjoying the 2006 season much at all.

 

The only way I salvage my interest this year in any way is if Hendry gets off his dead rear and gets Miguel Cabrera (my vote for the game's best pure hitter) for something to watch for the next decade. Of course, since the Cubs aren't "in contention" he won't even lift a finger in that direction.

 

Cabrera's significantly bigger this year, too. Hmmmmmmmmm...

 

To me, it looks like he just got fat.

[goonys evil twin]

Some of you would actually be happy to hear this? As a baseball fan, I hope no players (although I know this won't happen) ever get busted again. Especially a player like Pujols. I would say the same for a player like DLee. These type of players need to be clean, not only for their fans, but for Baseball as a sport.

 

Nobody getting busted and/or us not hearing about it does not mean the players are clean. I would much rather hear about the problems that I'm convinced are going on than not hear a thing and pretend there is no problem.

[woodchip2153]

People are going to be shocked when they find out how many people were roiding, and how many people are using HGH and other things that urine samples can't detect.

 

BALCO was just the tip of the iceberg.

 

There was an article on Page 2 about this about a week ago, from Jason Whitlock. Very disturbing.

 

Edit: I believe it was Whitlock, but I'm not positive. I'll try to find it later, on my lunch break.

Edited June 9, 2006 by woodchip21531679839970

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I have found it funny that no one thinks Pujols is cheating. This year he was on pace to hit what 70+ HRs?

 

Homeruns are up all across baseball. Why? You could argue that the hitters are cheating, but there is an equally viable argument that states it's due to lack of pitchers cheating.

 

Afterall, the majority of positive tests for banned substances thus far has occurred in pitchers, not hitters.

 

I've always felt steroids could help a reliever better than anyone else in baseball. HGH and steroids increase recovery time and no one needs that more than relief pitchers. While those substances can surely help hitters in bulking up and there's definitely some value there, imagine a pitcher who could dial it up to the 90's, but was unable to hit 85 the next day discovers that by juicing he can hit in the 90's on consecutive days. His value skyrockets under those circumstances.

[DanzaSlap]

As a Cardinal fan, if this is true and Pujols is using HGH, I will officially switch to being a Cub fan. Or, I'll just stop watching baseball altogether. I'm honestly not sur which would be less painful.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

As a Cardinal fan, if this is true and Pujols is using HGH, I will officially switch to being a Cub fan. Or, I'll just stop watching baseball altogether. I'm honestly not sur which would be less painful.

 

Come join us. It's hard to believe anyone on this Cubs team is using any performance enhancing drugs or chemicals. It's better than giving up on the game completely.

[Big Fergie J]

I have mixed emotions about all of this. As I said in a post ystdy this Grimsley investigation will have a lot of legs. It will take precedence over the Mitchell inquiry because of the subpoena powers of federal authorities. Already witnesses are being told not to talk to Mitchell due to other proceedings.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/09/sports/baseball/09steroids.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

 

The investigation of Grimsley has far greater sweeping powers tham Mitchell could ever have had.

 

As one poster said earlier in this thread and I have said before the witch-hunt mentality that exists right now is disturbing. It seems that all roads just want to lead to Bonds. As far as Pujols goes, it will become a "guilt by assocation" type thing.

 

As far as HGH goes, the only thing I believe is that the chemists/scientists that design synthetic steriods will always be a step ahead of the detection process because by default one cannot detect something one doesn't know about.

[Banedon]

Anyone else think that we'll see legislation over performance enhancers in professional sports before long?

[Banedon]

As a Cardinal fan, if this is true and Pujols is using HGH, I will officially switch to being a Cub fan. Or, I'll just stop watching baseball altogether. I'm honestly not sur which would be less painful.

 

Come join us. It's hard to believe anyone on this Cubs team is using any performance enhancing drugs or chemicals. It's better than giving up on the game completely.

 

Neifi and Bynum are both clearly juicing.

[woodchip2153]

People are going to be shocked when they find out how many people were roiding, and how many people are using HGH and other things that urine samples can't detect.

 

BALCO was just the tip of the iceberg.

 

There was an article on Page 2 about this about a week ago, from Jason Whitlock. Very disturbing.

 

Edit: I believe it was Whitlock, but I'm not positive. I'll try to find it later, on my lunch break.

 

Here is the article I was talking about. It was written by Bomani Jones, not Whitlock. My bad.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=jones/060602

[UMFan83]

As a Cardinal fan, if this is true and Pujols is using HGH, I will officially switch to being a Cub fan. Or, I'll just stop watching baseball altogether. I'm honestly not sur which would be less painful.

 

Yeah goto the team who had a juicer and a corker and still can't get to the World Series. Would welcome you with open arms though. Would love to have a (former) Cardinals fan feel the pain and misery that we experience everyday.

[cubfan1955]

As a Cardinal fan, if this is true and Pujols is using HGH, I will officially switch to being a Cub fan. Or, I'll just stop watching baseball altogether. I'm honestly not sur which would be less painful.

 

Trust me, giving up baseball altogether would be less painful.

[Andy]

on a semi related noted, how come you don't have the whitch hunt in football or other sports like baseball?

 

Unlike MLB, the NFL has actually done a very good job of policing themselves and taking a strong stand against performance enhancing substances. They have tough penalties and have done random testing for a long time. Additionally, they not only test for the drugs but for masking agents as well. The union and the owners both agree that performance enhancing substances have no place in the NFL and have worked together to try to keep them out of the league.

 

This is totally different from MLB where the owners were more than willing to sweep this under the rug (until Congress got involved) and the union opposed drug testing.

 

Because the NFL hasn't allowed the problem to get out of hand like MLB has, there's not nearly the amount of controversy surrounding the NFL.

 

Didn't several members of the Carolina Panthers admit to using steroids a couple of years ago? I think Todd Sauerbrun (sp?) was one of them, and if a punter is juicing, who isn't?

 

I could be making this up, but I'm pretty sure I remember hearing something like this a couple of years ago.

 

It just makes no sense to me why football gets a free pass, while it's a witch hunt in baseball.

Yes, a few members of that team got steroid prescriptions filled out by a doctor in the area who I believe is no longer a doctor. Sauerbrun, two offensive linemen and I believe one other player were implicated, but no major ones. I really don't think the NFL has that big of a problem with it, though.

[goonys evil twin]

Yes, a few members of that team got steroid prescriptions filled out by a doctor in the area who I believe is no longer a doctor. Sauerbrun, two offensive linemen and I believe one other player were implicated, but no major ones. I really don't think the NFL has that big of a problem with it, though.

 

I think you are kidding yourself if you think that's true.

 

Unless you mean the powers that be in the NFL don't have a problem with all their players juicing. That's true.

[The Voice of Reason]

I have found it funny that no one thinks Pujols is cheating. This year he was on pace to hit what 70+ HRs?

 

Homeruns are up all across baseball. Why? You could argue that the hitters are cheating, but there is an equally viable argument that states it's due to lack of pitchers cheating.

 

Afterall, the majority of positive tests for banned substances thus far has occurred in pitchers, not hitters.

 

I've always felt steroids could help a reliever better than anyone else in baseball. HGH and steroids increase recovery time and no one needs that more than relief pitchers. While those substances can surely help hitters in bulking up and there's definitely some value there, imagine a pitcher who could dial it up to the 90's, but was unable to hit 85 the next day discovers that by juicing he can hit in the 90's on consecutive days. His value skyrockets under those circumstances.

 

 

Can you say Joe Borowski?

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Can you say Joe Borowski?

 

Can you say 50% of the league? Look, until Canseco is proven to be full of it, I'm sticking with what he said. He was ostracized when his book was coming out, but it's the closest to the truth that we have right now. We've had more than a year to prove him wrong, and I have yet to see anyone do it.