Ozzie fires back on Rich Hill

[abuck1220]

and hendry reminded me of baker when he got that shot in at murton.

 

What "shot"?

 

[Left fielder Matt Murton] didn't get behind it well.

 

nothing terrible, but i thought it was a random thing to throw in there. plus, it was funny in a paragraph that also said...

 

I think Michael did the right thing, too.

 

and

 

Michael did the right thing, too.

 

to review, calling ajp names gets you a public and private reprimand (and possibly plays a role in getting demoted). but PUNCHING HIM IN THE FACE...well, the organization seems ok with that.

Edited May 22, 2006 by abuck1220

[CubinNY]

And I'm still wiating to hear about your stint in the bigs.

 

Zero relevance.

 

He claimed to have some information about what it's like in the bigs. I asked him how he knew.

 

How can anyone know what the unwritten rules of playing in the bigs other than someone who has been there?

 

After all, the rule goes unrecorded so it is only passed down through custom and word of mouth.

 

I'd apprecaite any inside gossip.

[Sammy Sofa]

Like it or not, there's a pecking order in this kind of environment. If you're a scrub rookie who hasn't done a damn thing as a major league pitcher, defer to the manager or the guys involved to talk about what happened. Is it right? No, but hey, that's life. If you've been around a while or show you can get things done, you get more slack. That's true in a number of aspects with this game. Hill has absolutely zero to stand on if he wants to fire off like that. That's just how it is.

 

In the above you pretty much say that Hill has no right to say anyting.

 

No, I don't. I said Hill is gonna catch hell for shooting is mouth off. I didn't even come close to saying he has "no right" to say what he said, nor did I even imply he couldn't say "anything about anything." He can say whatever he wants...he's just going to get slammed right back and even harder by other people because he's a rookie, and rather poor one at that. If he wants that, hey, go ahead. I think it makes him look foolish, and his team, and it's not a smart thing to do. That's why he SHOULDN'T. We tell people they SHOULDN'T cross a street without looking both ways. Doesn't mean they can't if they don't want to.

[Sammy Sofa]

And I'm still wiating to hear about your stint in the bigs.

 

Zero relevance.

 

He claimed to have some information about what it's like in the bigs. I asked him how he knew.

 

How can anyone know what the unwritten rules of playing in the bigs other than someone who has been there?

 

After all, the rule goes unrecorded so it is only passed down through custom and word of mouth.

 

I'd apprecaite any inside gossip.

 

Unbelievable.

 

So we can't assume or infer based on anything we know or have observed in our own lives...because we haven't played in the bigs? How many times to do I have to explicitly explain what I think happened and why I think it happened? What do I have to possibly gain by making it up out of the clear blue? I've never encountered a business or organization or clique or social group period that appreciates it when a new guy that is terrible at his job/always screws up/etc. goes out of their way to attack or call out someone in that same social group who is already established and generally does very well when that person really didn't do anything wrong except kinda be a jerk. It's just one of those things...why is MLB going to be exclusive from those kinds of mentalities? If anything, it's going to be 10 times worse there because of how competitive it is.

 

Do I know this with 100%? Of course not. I'm assuming. I think I'm pretty spot-on with this assumption. You don't see many mouthy rookies go on to long and storied careers of greatness unless their play is pretty phenomenal from the get go.

 

So, no, I have never played in the bigs. I don't know 100% that what I'm saying is true. I don't see how that is different from the overwhelming bulk of the posts here or on any other message board. It's my opinion and I think I'm right. It doesn't MAKE me right, but I've made my case time and again as to why and how I feel in this thread, and this is what it's come to. Why? I have no clue. What was established? Beats me. Were people taking me to be some wizened inside authority into the inner workings of baseball? Somehow I highly doubt that.

Edited May 22, 2006 by Sammy Sofa

[CubinNY]

And I'm still wiating to hear about your stint in the bigs.

 

Zero relevance.

 

He claimed to have some information about what it's like in the bigs. I asked him how he knew.

 

How can anyone know what the unwritten rules of playing in the bigs other than someone who has been there?

 

After all, the rule goes unrecorded so it is only passed down through custom and word of mouth.

 

I'd apprecaite any inside gossip.

 

Unbelievable.

 

So we can't assume or infer based on anything we know or have observed in our own lives...because we haven't played in the bigs? How many times to do I have to explicitly explain what I think happened and why I think it happened? What do I have to possibly gain by making it up out of the clear blue? I've never encountered a business or organization or clique or social group period that appreciates it when a new guy that is terrible at his job/always screwes up/etc. goes out of their way to attack or call out someone in that same social group who is already established and generally does very well when that person really didn't do anything wrong except kinda be a jerk. It's just one of those things...why is MLB going to be exclusive from those kinds of mentalities? If anything, it's going to be 10 times worse there because of how competitive it is.

 

Oh, so you don't know.

 

Do you think Ozzy wouldn't have said anything had Lee said what Hill did?

 

Neither do I.

 

The fact that Hill was a rookie has little bearing on what Ozzy said. Hill was the friggen pitcher of record and he had a bad game and was upset. People say and do dumb things all of the time in the heat of competition. The fact that Hill was a rookie who hasn't been pitching well may have chaged what Ozzy said, but he would have said something. The guy can't keep his cake hole shut.

[Sammy Sofa]

And I'm still wiating to hear about your stint in the bigs.

 

Zero relevance.

 

He claimed to have some information about what it's like in the bigs. I asked him how he knew.

 

How can anyone know what the unwritten rules of playing in the bigs other than someone who has been there?

 

After all, the rule goes unrecorded so it is only passed down through custom and word of mouth.

 

I'd apprecaite any inside gossip.

 

Unbelievable.

 

So we can't assume or infer based on anything we know or have observed in our own lives...because we haven't played in the bigs? How many times to do I have to explicitly explain what I think happened and why I think it happened? What do I have to possibly gain by making it up out of the clear blue? I've never encountered a business or organization or clique or social group period that appreciates it when a new guy that is terrible at his job/always screwes up/etc. goes out of their way to attack or call out someone in that same social group who is already established and generally does very well when that person really didn't do anything wrong except kinda be a jerk. It's just one of those things...why is MLB going to be exclusive from those kinds of mentalities? If anything, it's going to be 10 times worse there because of how competitive it is.

 

Oh, so you don't know.

 

I don't understand how that proves or disproves anything I've said.

 

Do you think Ozzy wouldn't have said anything had Lee said what Hill did?

 

Nope.

 

Neither do I.

 

Alright then.

 

The fact that Hill was a rookie has little bearing on what Ozzy said.

 

Wait, wait, wait...you grill me like I was "busted" for what I said because I hadn't played professional baseball, yet you can make this declarative statement without batting an eye? How do you know for sure why Ozzie said what he said? Are you a close family member? His best friend? A teammate? His therapist?

 

Now before you jump on me, all I'm trying to do is highlight what you were doing to me. I disagree with what you said, but I don't know for sure you're wrong. And I'm not seriously asking the questions above...I just don't appreciate being called out like I was for no reason whatsoever.

 

Hill was the friggen pitcher of record and he had a bad game and was upset. People say and do dumb things all of the time in the heat of competition. The fact that Hill was a rookie who hasn't been pitching well may have chaged what Ozzy said, but he would have said something. The guy can't keep his cake hole shut.

 

I respectfully disagree. Vive la difference.

[srbin84]

When/where did Hill compare himself to Koufax? I've never heard of that before.

 

Last year, when he was called up, Boers and Bernstein interviewed him. They asked him what pitcher is he most similar to, and he said Sandy Koufax. That's exactly what he said. After they were off the phone with him, both were laughing and surprised but said, let's see if he can back that up.

 

*And if anyone here is going to say I am making this up because he sucked, call them tomorrow and ask them. Then come back here and apologize to me.

[CubfaninCA]

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060521&content_id=1464636&vkey=news_chc&fext=.jsp&c_id=chc

Guillen's comments were relayed to Hill.

 

"He's right," Hill said. "I haven't done anything in this game. I'm just a rookie and shouldn't have been running my mouth. After watching the tape and watching the replay, it looked like a clean play. It was a heat-of-the-moment kind of thing."

 

"I think [Hill] was wrong," Hendry said of the pitcher's postgame comments on Saturday. "I have no problem with A.J. running over Michael in that situation. That's baseball. You can block the plate without a ball. I think Michael did the right thing, too. You've got a throw that normally might get there in time. [Left fielder Matt Murton] didn't get behind it well. Michael did the right thing, too. A lot of times you see guys get out of the way and not willing to take the hit. Rich was wrong making those comments."

 

"The comments I made were in the heat of the moment," Hill said. "After looking at the tape and watching the replay, it was a clean play. I looked at it, and I was going for the ball and didn't really see what was going on behind me. At that time, I was caught in the moment."

 

"I think sometimes I get in my own way, if that makes sense," Hill said. "I try to think I know everything already, and that's obviously not the way to go about it. I've started to listen and am trying to take everybody's advice. I've run into problems taking the wrong people's advice. Maybe part of that is saying, watch who you listen to. You try to take advice from everybody."

 

Those of you defending Hill for his comments can give it a rest now. He knows he screwed up, and that only hastened his departure to AAA.

 

and now hill's owning his most staunch defenders. poetic justice indeed. i applaud hill for admitting error and saying that he was essentially running smack.

 

it's all about context here. what ozzie said in 2004 is irrelevant. he's the manager of the current champs and hill's the guy who got rocked by ozzie's team and hasn't won a game in 14 tries. go ahead and run your mouth rich, but in this case you looked like a fool.

[CubfaninCA]

so hendry criticizes hill for standing up for barrett b/c what barrett did was wrong...but he doesn't criticize barrett for doing the thing that was wrong? they're acting like hill called his own teammate gutless. are hendry and baker so macho that they have to basically take the side of guillen/aj b/c they don't want to look soft? geez, hill probably thought he was doing the right thing in standing up for his teammates.

 

and hendry reminded me of baker when he got that shot in at murton.

 

miss the part where hill criticized himself?

 

reach

[SouthSideRyan]

"I think [Hill] was wrong," Hendry said of the pitcher's postgame comments

 

I think this has a lot more to do with Hill's "admission of guilt" than anything he feels personally. If you're GM says you screwed up, you say you screwed up. It certainly would be odd that somebody goes back on what they said just 24 hours earlier. Especially something not said in the heat of the moment(3 hours after the collission.

[abuck1220]

so hendry criticizes hill for standing up for barrett b/c what barrett did was wrong...but he doesn't criticize barrett for doing the thing that was wrong? they're acting like hill called his own teammate gutless. are hendry and baker so macho that they have to basically take the side of guillen/aj b/c they don't want to look soft? geez, hill probably thought he was doing the right thing in standing up for his teammates.

 

and hendry reminded me of baker when he got that shot in at murton.

 

miss the part where hill criticized himself?

 

reach

 

and your point is....?

[CubfaninCA]

so hendry criticizes hill for standing up for barrett b/c what barrett did was wrong...but he doesn't criticize barrett for doing the thing that was wrong? they're acting like hill called his own teammate gutless. are hendry and baker so macho that they have to basically take the side of guillen/aj b/c they don't want to look soft? geez, hill probably thought he was doing the right thing in standing up for his teammates.

 

and hendry reminded me of baker when he got that shot in at murton.

 

miss the part where hill criticized himself?

 

reach

 

and your point is....?

 

take that into consideration & your rant's full of holes.

[abuck1220]

so hendry criticizes hill for standing up for barrett b/c what barrett did was wrong...but he doesn't criticize barrett for doing the thing that was wrong? they're acting like hill called his own teammate gutless. are hendry and baker so macho that they have to basically take the side of guillen/aj b/c they don't want to look soft? geez, hill probably thought he was doing the right thing in standing up for his teammates.

 

and hendry reminded me of baker when he got that shot in at murton.

 

miss the part where hill criticized himself?

 

reach

 

and your point is....?

 

take that into consideration & your rant's full of holes.

 

please point those holes out to me.

 

hill had every right to say what he did, regardless of what he says now (after a public reprimand by two of his bosses and a day to calm down).

[NorthsideAvenger]

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060521&content_id=1464636&vkey=news_chc&fext=.jsp&c_id=chc

Guillen's comments were relayed to Hill.

 

"He's right," Hill said. "I haven't done anything in this game. I'm just a rookie and shouldn't have been running my mouth. After watching the tape and watching the replay, it looked like a clean play. It was a heat-of-the-moment kind of thing."

 

"I think [Hill] was wrong," Hendry said of the pitcher's postgame comments on Saturday. "I have no problem with A.J. running over Michael in that situation. That's baseball. You can block the plate without a ball. I think Michael did the right thing, too. You've got a throw that normally might get there in time. [Left fielder Matt Murton] didn't get behind it well. Michael did the right thing, too. A lot of times you see guys get out of the way and not willing to take the hit. Rich was wrong making those comments."

 

"The comments I made were in the heat of the moment," Hill said. "After looking at the tape and watching the replay, it was a clean play. I looked at it, and I was going for the ball and didn't really see what was going on behind me. At that time, I was caught in the moment."

 

"I think sometimes I get in my own way, if that makes sense," Hill said. "I try to think I know everything already, and that's obviously not the way to go about it. I've started to listen and am trying to take everybody's advice. I've run into problems taking the wrong people's advice. Maybe part of that is saying, watch who you listen to. You try to take advice from everybody."

 

Those of you defending Hill for his comments can give it a rest now. He knows he screwed up, and that only hastened his departure to AAA.

 

Please...all that tells me is that Hendry/Baker got to Rich Hill, and coached him into making those statements. I know, I know...Baker and "coached" in the same sentence? :?

[CubfaninCA]

so hendry criticizes hill for standing up for barrett b/c what barrett did was wrong...but he doesn't criticize barrett for doing the thing that was wrong? they're acting like hill called his own teammate gutless. are hendry and baker so macho that they have to basically take the side of guillen/aj b/c they don't want to look soft? geez, hill probably thought he was doing the right thing in standing up for his teammates.

 

and hendry reminded me of baker when he got that shot in at murton.

 

miss the part where hill criticized himself?

 

reach

 

and your point is....?

 

take that into consideration & your rant's full of holes.

 

please point those holes out to me.

 

hill had every right to say what he did, regardless of what he says now (after a public reprimand by two of his bosses and a day to calm down).

 

talk about a nonsensical conclusion.

 

at least rich hill can own up to being wrong. kid might be alright afterall. it says a lot about his character.

[CubfaninCA]

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060521&content_id=1464636&vkey=news_chc&fext=.jsp&c_id=chc

Guillen's comments were relayed to Hill.

 

"He's right," Hill said. "I haven't done anything in this game. I'm just a rookie and shouldn't have been running my mouth. After watching the tape and watching the replay, it looked like a clean play. It was a heat-of-the-moment kind of thing."

 

"I think [Hill] was wrong," Hendry said of the pitcher's postgame comments on Saturday. "I have no problem with A.J. running over Michael in that situation. That's baseball. You can block the plate without a ball. I think Michael did the right thing, too. You've got a throw that normally might get there in time. [Left fielder Matt Murton] didn't get behind it well. Michael did the right thing, too. A lot of times you see guys get out of the way and not willing to take the hit. Rich was wrong making those comments."

 

"The comments I made were in the heat of the moment," Hill said. "After looking at the tape and watching the replay, it was a clean play. I looked at it, and I was going for the ball and didn't really see what was going on behind me. At that time, I was caught in the moment."

 

"I think sometimes I get in my own way, if that makes sense," Hill said. "I try to think I know everything already, and that's obviously not the way to go about it. I've started to listen and am trying to take everybody's advice. I've run into problems taking the wrong people's advice. Maybe part of that is saying, watch who you listen to. You try to take advice from everybody."

 

Those of you defending Hill for his comments can give it a rest now. He knows he screwed up, and that only hastened his departure to AAA.

 

Please...all that tells me is that Hendry/Baker got to Rich Hill, and coached him into making those statements. I know, I know...Baker and "coached" in the same sentence? :?

 

i know this might be a novel concept, but some people are man enough to own up to being wrong.

[srbin84]

so hendry criticizes hill for standing up for barrett b/c what barrett did was wrong...but he doesn't criticize barrett for doing the thing that was wrong? they're acting like hill called his own teammate gutless. are hendry and baker so macho that they have to basically take the side of guillen/aj b/c they don't want to look soft? geez, hill probably thought he was doing the right thing in standing up for his teammates.

 

and hendry reminded me of baker when he got that shot in at murton.

 

miss the part where hill criticized himself?

 

reach

 

and your point is....?

 

take that into consideration & your rant's full of holes.

 

It was already full of holes. I pointed out that he is a tool because he compared himself to Koufax on a major radio show; and instead of trying to defend that statement, which he can't, he accused me of making it up. He also told me to shut up. That's low and second only to actually making something up. I thought you attacked the post here, not the poster?

[Danny82]

and hendry reminded me of baker when he got that shot in at murton.

 

What "shot"?

 

[Left fielder Matt Murton] didn't get behind it well.

 

nothing terrible, but i thought it was a random thing to throw in there.

 

LOL. Wow. Some "shot".

[srbin84]

and hendry reminded me of baker when he got that shot in at murton.

 

What "shot"?

 

[Left fielder Matt Murton] didn't get behind it well.

 

nothing terrible, but i thought it was a random thing to throw in there.

 

LOL. Wow. Some "shot".

 

Haha, that's hilarious. The shot heard round the world.

[gflore34]

I'm still trying to figure out why someone like Hill with two pitches and absolutely no control was "untouchable" last offseason. Someday he may be an effective reliever, at the moment, he may more valuable to the Iowa Cubs than the Chicago Cubs.

[Soul]

Good to see Hill own up to his comments. Sure, he has a right to say them. We all have the right to say whatever we wish. But it wasn't a good idea for him to inject himself into that situation, especially when it was a clean play and everyone knows it, and Barrett was already trying to own up to his mistake, calling it a clean play.

 

Hill showed some character. Good for him.

[abuck1220]

It was already full of holes. I pointed out that he is a tool because he compared himself to Koufax on a major radio show; and instead of trying to defend that statement, which he can't, he accused me of making it up.

 

dude, there's nothing to defend b/c that's not what he said. as jon said, he said that his approach on the mound and his pitches were similar to koufax. in other words, that's the guy who he models himself after. you're acting like he said he was going to be better than koufax. go back to teaching us about your laws of probability...your posts on that subject amazingly made more sense than your posts on this one.

[srbin84]

It was already full of holes. I pointed out that he is a tool because he compared himself to Koufax on a major radio show; and instead of trying to defend that statement, which he can't, he accused me of making it up.

 

dude, there's nothing to defend b/c that's not what he said. as jon said, he said that his approach on the mound and his pitches were similar to koufax. in other words, that's the guy who he models himself after. you're acting like he said he was going to be better than koufax. go back to teaching us about your laws of probability...your posts on that subject amazingly made more sense than your posts on this one.

 

I'm not biased toward Hill, so my recollection of what I heard is what counts. I was right, not anyone else. If you or anyone else disagrees, feel free to call Boers and Bernstein today and ask them. Go ahead, and if I am wrong, I will own up to it. Otherwise, don't comment on it.

[Banedon]

He didn't say he was going to perform like Koufax and Zito. He said that his approach on the mound and his pitches were similar.

 

srbin84, What makes you doubt that Jon is telling the truth? Your recollection is the only one that matters? That's crap.

[abuck1220]

sorry, but i really don't care what you say. if hill mentioned koufax, it was because that's the guy he models himself after. what do you want him to say -- i most resemble charlie liebrandt? any inference that he was as good as/better than/the next koufax came from your mind.

 

 

the fact that this topic has gotten so much play is ridiculous. for making his comments hill has been publicly raked over the coals by an opposing manager, HIS manager, and HIS gm. it may have also played a role in his demotion. meanwhile, the guy who started it all BY PUNCHING A GUY IN THE FACE has gotten off scot free...everybody still loves him. it's insane.