Ozzie fires back on Rich Hill

[SouthSideRyan]

If you're a new hire at a law firm, and you have routinely screwed up case after case...and one of the better senior partners does something dumb (not against the rules or illegal, just boneheaded), you don't think the kid wouldn't and shouldn't get his butt handed to him if he forwards an e-mail around to the entire firm and all their clients talking about how dumb HE thinks the senior partner was?

Hill and Ozzie would need to work for the same organization for this analogy to make sense.

 

Instead Hill and Barrett work for the same organization, adn Hill is backing up the senior partner rather than standing by idly or "forwarding the email saying Senior partner Barrett was stupid."

[Sammy Sofa]

If you're a new hire at a law firm, and you have routinely screwed up case after case...and one of the better senior partners does something dumb (not against the rules or illegal, just boneheaded), you don't think the kid wouldn't and shouldn't get his butt handed to him if he forwards an e-mail around to the entire firm and all their clients talking about how dumb HE thinks the senior partner was?

Hill and Ozzie would need to work for the same organization for this analogy to make sense.

 

Not really. MLB being the "law firm" works fine. It's not a perfect analogy, but I think it's perfectly apt. All I'm trying to do is emphasize how the "pecking order" system that exists pretty much anywhere is magnified to the nth degree with MLB. That's why things happened they way they did. I don't feel I'm trying to defend Ozzie's actions...just trying to explain why they happened while trying to understand why some people are acting like what was said between the two is some newfound, terrible and unprecedented event.

Edited May 21, 2006 by Sammy Sofa

[SouthSideRyan]

If you're a new hire at a law firm, and you have routinely screwed up case after case...and one of the better senior partners does something dumb (not against the rules or illegal, just boneheaded), you don't think the kid wouldn't and shouldn't get his butt handed to him if he forwards an e-mail around to the entire firm and all their clients talking about how dumb HE thinks the senior partner was?

Hill and Ozzie would need to work for the same organization for this analogy to make sense.

 

Not really. MLB is the "law firm." All I'm trying to do is emphasize how the "pecking order" system that exists pretty much anywhere is magnified to the nth degree with MLB. That's why things happened they way they did.

 

Not at all. MLB is the lawyer profession. Each team is the "law firm"

[Sammy Sofa]

Fine, the analogy is terrible. The pecking order exists, it's nothing new, what happened is a shining example of it in action, and I highly doubt that even if I came up with some perfect, airtight analogy any of you arguing this would concede that it does.

 

Basic points...nobody else on the Cuns team was talking trash. Hill went out of his way to do so, right after pitching a terrible game to cap off a terrible (albeit just starting) major league pitching career. Him getting verbally slapped down by the most recent WS winning manager is not shocking, a surprise, something never before seen, or any worse than who knows how many times a crappy rookie has overstepped the vague boundaires of being "the new guy" and got burned by it. I simply don't understand why people are acting like how Ozzie responded is so terrible and Hill is some kind of hero for "sticking up for his teammate" when all he actually did is overstep his boundaries (in that NOBODY else was taking shots) and make himself and his team look foolish.

[Mark_R]

Know what would have been most awesome? AJP slaps home plate breaking his wrist and out for the year. Sweet poetic justice it woulda been.

[JWD]

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060521&content_id=1464636&vkey=news_chc&fext=.jsp&c_id=chc

Guillen's comments were relayed to Hill.

 

"He's right," Hill said. "I haven't done anything in this game. I'm just a rookie and shouldn't have been running my mouth. After watching the tape and watching the replay, it looked like a clean play. It was a heat-of-the-moment kind of thing."

 

"I think [Hill] was wrong," Hendry said of the pitcher's postgame comments on Saturday. "I have no problem with A.J. running over Michael in that situation. That's baseball. You can block the plate without a ball. I think Michael did the right thing, too. You've got a throw that normally might get there in time. [Left fielder Matt Murton] didn't get behind it well. Michael did the right thing, too. A lot of times you see guys get out of the way and not willing to take the hit. Rich was wrong making those comments."

 

"The comments I made were in the heat of the moment," Hill said. "After looking at the tape and watching the replay, it was a clean play. I looked at it, and I was going for the ball and didn't really see what was going on behind me. At that time, I was caught in the moment."

 

"I think sometimes I get in my own way, if that makes sense," Hill said. "I try to think I know everything already, and that's obviously not the way to go about it. I've started to listen and am trying to take everybody's advice. I've run into problems taking the wrong people's advice. Maybe part of that is saying, watch who you listen to. You try to take advice from everybody."

 

Those of you defending Hill for his comments can give it a rest now. He knows he screwed up, and that only hastened his departure to AAA.

[srbin84]

Hill is a headcase, and he needed it.

 

HAHAHHAAHHA

 

Defending a teammate = headcase.

 

Greg Maddux when he beaned a guy in retaliation his rookie year to stand up for a teammate = crazy headcase. Shoulda traded him for a 2B.

 

He's a headcase because he says stuff like he pitches like Sandy Koufax before he even threw a major league pitch. Then he backs it up with one of the worst starts to a major league career in history. If you think we're watching a young Koufax, I apologize to you. Personally, I don't think he is or ever will be near that good, but that's just my opinion.

[Soul]

Hill is a headcase, and he needed it.

 

HAHAHHAAHHA

 

Defending a teammate = headcase.

 

Greg Maddux when he beaned a guy in retaliation his rookie year to stand up for a teammate = crazy headcase. Shoulda traded him for a 2B.

 

He's a headcase because he says stuff like he pitches like Sandy Koufax before he even threw a major league pitch. Then he backs it up with one of the worst starts to a major league career in history. If you think we're watching a young Koufax, I apologize to you. Personally, I don't think he is or ever will be near that good, but that's just my opinion.

 

Koufax? This guy might not ever make it back to the major leagues.

 

He really said that? That's insulting to baseball fans everywhere.

[Mizzou]

When/where did Hill compare himself to Koufax? I've never heard of that before.

[Jon]

He didn't say he was going to perform like Koufax and Zito. He said that his approach on the mound and his pitches were similar.

 

 

I also doubt Hill saying that had anything to do with his demotion.

 

I'm sick of Ozzie going on and on about teams other than his own. If he wants to respond, fine, but my goodness the guy is annoying.

[Soul]

He didn't say he was going to perform like Koufax and Zito. He said that his approach on the mound and his pitches were similar.

 

 

I also doubt Hill saying that had anything to do with his demotion.

 

I'm also sick of Ozzie going on and on about teams other than his own. If he wants to respond, fine, but my goodness the guy is annoying.

 

I definitely agree he's annoying as hell.

 

Still though, if I'm a rook with an 0-6 record, I'm not giving the likes of Ozzie any ammunition on the eve of being sent down. I hope Hill can recover from it. I'll bet he slept very little last night---and he didn't strike me as a guy with the thickest of skins.

[SouthSideRyan]

He didn't say he was going to perform like Koufax and Zito. He said that his approach on the mound and his pitches were similar.

 

 

I also doubt Hill saying that had anything to do with his demotion.

 

I'm also sick of Ozzie going on and on about teams other than his own. If he wants to respond, fine, but my goodness the guy is annoying.

 

I definitely agree he's annoying as hell.

 

Still though, if I'm a rook with an 0-6 record, I'm not giving the likes of Ozzie any ammunition on the eve of being sent down. I hope Hill can recover from it. I'll bet he slept very little last night---and he didn't strike me as a guy with the thickest of skins.

 

If I'm a rook with an 0-6 record why should I care what some incoherent clown on the other side of town has to say?

[abuck1220]

Hill is a headcase, and he needed it.

 

HAHAHHAAHHA

 

Defending a teammate = headcase.

 

Greg Maddux when he beaned a guy in retaliation his rookie year to stand up for a teammate = crazy headcase. Shoulda traded him for a 2B.

 

He's a headcase because he says stuff like he pitches like Sandy Koufax before he even threw a major league pitch. Then he backs it up with one of the worst starts to a major league career in history. If you think we're watching a young Koufax, I apologize to you. Personally, I don't think he is or ever will be near that good, but that's just my opinion.

 

weird thing is, he got the first guy of the game out, so i thought there was a 100% chance of him throwing a perfect game.

 

 

apparently none of you heard the koufax mention, so you might as well shut up about it and quit making it sound like he said he was koufax's clone. you're mad about how he's pitched this season, fine. he hasn't pitched well, nobody said he has. but quit blowing this thing out of proportion even more than guillen did. and quit acting like you know he's a headcase, thinned skinned, whatever because you watched him throw a baseball on tv.

[Sammy Sofa]

He didn't say he was going to perform like Koufax and Zito. He said that his approach on the mound and his pitches were similar.

 

 

I also doubt Hill saying that had anything to do with his demotion.

 

I'm sick of Ozzie going on and on about teams other than his own. If he wants to respond, fine, but my goodness the guy is annoying.

 

Ain't that the truth. He and AJP are acting like this is the WWF.

[CubinNY]

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060521&content_id=1464636&vkey=news_chc&fext=.jsp&c_id=chc

Guillen's comments were relayed to Hill.

 

"He's right," Hill said. "I haven't done anything in this game. I'm just a rookie and shouldn't have been running my mouth. After watching the tape and watching the replay, it looked like a clean play. It was a heat-of-the-moment kind of thing."

 

"I think [Hill] was wrong," Hendry said of the pitcher's postgame comments on Saturday. "I have no problem with A.J. running over Michael in that situation. That's baseball. You can block the plate without a ball. I think Michael did the right thing, too. You've got a throw that normally might get there in time. [Left fielder Matt Murton] didn't get behind it well. Michael did the right thing, too. A lot of times you see guys get out of the way and not willing to take the hit. Rich was wrong making those comments."

 

"The comments I made were in the heat of the moment," Hill said. "After looking at the tape and watching the replay, it was a clean play. I looked at it, and I was going for the ball and didn't really see what was going on behind me. At that time, I was caught in the moment."

 

"I think sometimes I get in my own way, if that makes sense," Hill said. "I try to think I know everything already, and that's obviously not the way to go about it. I've started to listen and am trying to take everybody's advice. I've run into problems taking the wrong people's advice. Maybe part of that is saying, watch who you listen to. You try to take advice from everybody."

 

Those of you defending Hill for his comments can give it a rest now. He knows he screwed up, and that only hastened his departure to AAA.

 

Give it a rest? You are entirely missing the point. Who cares if what he said was right or wrong? Of course they were wrong. What people were complaining about is that he's a rookie who is not playing well so he has NO RIGHT to say anything.

 

Some went so far as to say there is some unwritten code where rookies can't say anything to anyone about anythng. Unless, that is if they are playing well.

 

It's garbage and makes no sense whatsoever.

[abuck1220]

so hendry criticizes hill for standing up for barrett b/c what barrett did was wrong...but he doesn't criticize barrett for doing the thing that was wrong? they're acting like hill called his own teammate gutless. are hendry and baker so macho that they have to basically take the side of guillen/aj b/c they don't want to look soft? geez, hill probably thought he was doing the right thing in standing up for his teammates.

 

and hendry reminded me of baker when he got that shot in at murton.

Edited May 22, 2006 by abuck1220

[Sammy Sofa]

What people were complaining about is that he's a rookie who is not playing well so he has NO RIGHT to say anything.

 

Nobody said that. In fact, several people went out of their way numerous times to be clear they WEREN'T saying that.

 

Some went so far as to say there is some unwritten code where rookies can't say anything to anyone about anythng.

 

Nobody said anything of the sort. You've totally distorted the entire point people like myself were arguing.

 

Unless, that is if they are playing well.

 

It's not that cut and dry, and nobody's even come close to saying it like that. You're trying to boil this down to a simple right & wrong, black & white issue, and it's not. In the most basic terms possible, if you're going to start some crap (which Hill did since nobody else on the team was slining anything), in the world of the MLB, you need to have to be able to back that talk up with some skills on the field. It's childish, it's asinine, it's ridiculous...AND IT'S JUST HOW IT IS. That's that world. That's how the unofficial hierarchy works. You have to prove yourself before you can take shots in the press. In the context of the insane world of MLB, Hill was in the wrong.

 

It's garbage and makes no sense whatsoever.

 

I couldn't possibly agree more.

[CubinNY]

What people were complaining about is that he's a rookie who is not playing well so he has NO RIGHT to say anything.

 

Nobody said that. In fact, several people went out of their way numerous times to be clear they WEREN'T saying that.

 

Some went so far as to say there is some unwritten code where rookies can't say anything to anyone about anythng.

 

Nobody said anything of the sort. You've totally distorted the entire point people like myself were arguing.

 

Unless, that is if they are playing well.

 

It's not that cut and dry, and nobody's even come close to saying it like that. You're trying to boil this down to a simple right & wrong, black & white issue, and it's not. In the most basic terms possible, if you're going to start some crap (which Hill did since nobody else on the team was slining anything), in the world of the MLB, you need to have to be able to back that talk up with some skills on the field. It's childish, it's asinine, it's ridiculous...AND IT'S JUST HOW IT IS. That's that world. That's how the unofficial hierarchy works. You have to prove yourself before you can take shots in the press. In the context of the insane world of MLB, Hill was in the wrong.

 

It's garbage and makes no sense whatsoever.

 

I couldn't possibly agree more.

 

What do you know about the world of MLB except for what you see on TV or from the stands?

[Danny82]

and hendry reminded me of baker when he got that shot in at murton.

 

What "shot"?

[Sammy Sofa]

Look back over the history of MLB. Look at all the times you've seen rookies going out and slamming proven veteran players, in the press, at games, whatever. It rarely ever happens. Of course there are exceptions...but the general unspoken rule/sentiment/attitude/whatever is undoubtably "if you're new, prove yourself on the field, THEN take your shots."

 

You think I'm just making this up? What possible reason could I have for doing that?

[CubinNY]

Like it or not, there's a pecking order in this kind of environment. If you're a scrub rookie who hasn't done a damn thing as a major league pitcher, defer to the manager or the guys involved to talk about what happened. Is it right? No, but hey, that's life. If you've been around a while or show you can get things done, you get more slack. That's true in a number of aspects with this game. Hill has absolutely zero to stand on if he wants to fire off like that. That's just how it is.

 

In the above you pretty much say that Hill has no right to say anyting.

 

And I'm still wiating to hear about your stint in the bigs.

Edited May 22, 2006 by CubinNY

[CubinNY]

 

You think I'm just making this up? What possible reason could I have for doing that?

 

Yes, I am pretty sure you are just making this up.

[RynoRules]

What do any of us with few excpetions know about what its like to be an MLBer? What difference does it make? And why are we trying to surpress opinions here? Since when do we tell each other to "shut up"?

 

Hill should have just let it go and concentrate harder on what he is doing wrong that is leading to him getting lit up. That said, if they sent him down b/c of his comments, that's dumb. Let him pitch and figure it out.

[Mark_R]

And I'm still wiating to hear about your stint in the bigs.

 

Zero relevance.

[Sammy Sofa]

 

You think I'm just making this up? What possible reason could I have for doing that?

 

Yes, I am pretty sure you are just making this up.

 

Why the hell would I even want to do that?