Aramis Ramirez or Scott Rolen?

[soccer10k]

If you consider both offense and defense, which player would you rather have on your team. John Kruk called Rolen the best third baseman in the league, although I'm not sure if he meant just defensively. But regardless of that, all things considered, which one would you want?

[David]

Ram.

 

I think for the rest of their careers, Aramis will have the advantage with the bat, and that means a lot more to me than some good (great) glovework.

[ManCrushOnNomar]

I don't think Rolen has the glove he used to. I counted 4 misplayed balls on Sunday alone.

[mhuber92211]

I don't think Rolen has the glove he used to. I counted 4 misplayed balls on Sunday alone.

 

He seems to have lost a step. Probably from the time lost from last season, but he looked like Roger Dorn out there Sunday with the 'ole on several balls. I was expecting Lou Brown to come out of the dugout making him do some sit ups.

[TrueBlueCubFan]

Rolen is 5 years older. His shoulder injuries would worry me a little over the long run. I'm leaning towards Ramirez, but there is a slight bias involved here.

[fulldeck]

Rolen by far. I like A-Ram and he has gotten much better, but it is still Rolen.

 

The Cubs infield is infamous for bad hops and bad infield grass. Blaming Rolen for those bad hops is crazy.

[TrueBlueCubFan]

Rolen by far. I like A-Ram and he has gotten much better, but it is still Rolen.

 

The Cubs infield is infamous for bad hops and bad infield grass. Blaming Rolen for those bad hops is crazy.

not to mention Aram plays there 81 times a year, therefore his defense may be very underrated.

[katway]

Currently, Rolen is the better player. But, considering their ages and Rolen's shoulder issues, I'd have to go with Aram since he has a bigger upside and has greater trade value long term.

[fulldeck]

Currently, Rolen is the better player. But, considering their ages and Rolen's shoulder issues, I'd have to go with Aram since he has a bigger upside and has greater trade value long term.

 

Doesn't ARam have groin and leg issues?

[UK1679666180]

Currently, Rolen is the better player. But, considering their ages and Rolen's shoulder issues, I'd have to go with Aram since he has a bigger upside and has greater trade value long term.

 

Doesn't ARam have groin and leg issues?

 

Yes, but Rolen has had a history of structural injuries in his shoulder and back while Ramirez has had a history of muscular injuries (except for the ankle injury in '02). There's definitely less of a long-term impact with Ramirez at this stage than Rolen as far as injuries impacting their future outputs. Although, it doesnt' appear Ramirez is in any better shape than he has been over the last few years, which is disappointing.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I'd take Ramirez because I believe he's better with the bat than Rolen and has his best years ahead of him, while I believe Rolen's best years are behind him.

[USSoccer]

Ramirez. Younger, prime ahead of him, etc.

[Jehrico]

I'd take a 25 year old Rolen over a 25 year old ARAM, but it'd be a tough decision to make. I'd take 2006's ARAM over 2006s Rolen though in a heartbeat.

[XZero771679666304]

Rolen may have lost a step, but he is still the best defensive 3B in the league. Ramirez is clearly the better offensive player, is improving defensively (though he will never be Rolen with the glove), and is younger. They both have a history in injuries, but as it was pointed out Rolen's injuries are structural and somewhat chronic. Ramirez's injuries have been muscular.

 

It's a tough call, but if I were building a team I'd go with Ramirez. If I needed to win right now I might go with Rolen. 2 or 3 years from now this would be a no brainer for Aramis.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Rolen by far. I like A-Ram and he has gotten much better, but it is still Rolen.

 

The Cubs infield is infamous for bad hops and bad infield grass. Blaming Rolen for those bad hops is crazy.

 

The bad hops would have been knocked down if he got in front of the ball instead of pulling that ole bs. Rolen's way better than ARam defensively, no question.

 

However, Aramis is going to rake for years while Rolen will battle injuries and the clock. I'd take Aramis at this point, but I'd take Rolen if we were going to nab a player after it was all said and done and pick who was the better player.

[fulldeck]

Rolen by far. I like A-Ram and he has gotten much better, but it is still Rolen.

 

The Cubs infield is infamous for bad hops and bad infield grass. Blaming Rolen for those bad hops is crazy.

 

The bad hops would have been knocked down if he got in front of the ball instead of pulling that ole bs. Rolen's way better than ARam defensively, no question.

 

However, Aramis is going to rake for years while Rolen will battle injuries and the clock. I'd take Aramis at this point, but I'd take Rolen if we were going to nab a player after it was all said and done and pick who was the better player.

 

Early return's are great on Rolen this season after the major injury. We all know that 3B's don't aways have time to center themselves on balls hit to them. The first week of the season, I am willing to overlook those plays. Especially seeing his glove work yesterday and the throw from his knees to beat the runner at 1B.

 

As for my bias, I will admit it, it runs deep with Rolen. He is by far my favorite player. So while I will say that Aram has grown by leaps and bounds as a Cub on both sides of the ball and hopefully will be a very good for years to come, I will always pick Rolen for me team.

[badger1679666666]

As a body of work, Rolen hands down every day.

 

From right now on, Ram.

[srbin84]

Rolen is a great player but his is finishing up his prime, and Ramirez is entering it. Ram all the way.

[bring stone back]

Rolen.

 

The question wasn't about upside or long-term/trade value, it was who do you want right now. Even as a Cubs fan, it would be Rolen.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Rolen may have lost a step, but he is still the best defensive 3B in the league. Ramirez is clearly the better offensive player, is improving defensively (though he will never be Rolen with the glove), and is younger. They both have a history in injuries, but as it was pointed out Rolen's injuries are structural and somewhat chronic. Ramirez's injuries have been muscular.

 

It's a tough call, but if I were building a team I'd go with Ramirez. If I needed to win right now I might go with Rolen. 2 or 3 years from now this would be a no brainer for Aramis.

 

How is that clear?

 

Rolen's Career: .284/.376/.515

 

Ramirez Career: .277/.329/.481

 

 

For this year and next I'd take Rolen after that Ramirez.

[srbin84]

Well, I would still take Ram because of injury concerns with Rolen. If both are healthy, I'd take Rolen.

[Guest]

NL Third Basemen (current value):

 

I could argue any of these guys in any order, but I'd go this way at the moment.

 

1.) David Wright

2.) Miguel Cabrera

3.) Scott Rolen

4.) Aramis Ramirez

 

 

5.) Zimmerman (btw - by reputation, probably the best defender of the bunch at this point)

 

 

NL Third Basemen (future value):

 

1.) David Wright

2.) Miguel Cabrera

 

 

3.) Aramis Ramirez (injury concerns drop him down)

 

 

4.) Scott Rolen

5.) Zimmerman (could be higher, but needs to prove it)

 

 

 

Ian Stewart and Ryan Braun probably need to figure in here somehow, too.

[Knightlife_in_Lubbock]

NL Third Basemen (current value):

 

I could argue any of these guys in any order, but I'd go this way at the moment.

 

1.) David Wright

2.) Miguel Cabrera

3.) Scott Rolen

4.) Aramis Ramirez

 

 

5.) Zimmerman (btw - by reputation, probably the best defender of the bunch at this point)

 

 

NL Third Basemen (future value):

 

1.) David Wright

2.) Miguel Cabrera

 

 

3.) Aramis Ramirez (injury concerns drop him down)

 

 

4.) Scott Rolen

5.) Zimmerman (could be higher, but needs to prove it)

 

 

 

Ian Stewart and Ryan Braun probably need to figure in here somehow, too.

 

 

This is like a presidential election. You only have 2 to chose from. May not be the best 2 but the only 2 you have to pick from. :wink:

[CubinNY]

NL Third Basemen (current value):

 

I could argue any of these guys in any order, but I'd go this way at the moment.

 

1.) David Wright

2.) Miguel Cabrera

3.) Scott Rolen

4.) Aramis Ramirez

 

 

5.) Zimmerman (btw - by reputation, probably the best defender of the bunch at this point)

 

 

NL Third Basemen (future value):

 

1.) David Wright

2.) Miguel Cabrera

 

 

3.) Aramis Ramirez (injury concerns drop him down)

 

 

4.) Scott Rolen

5.) Zimmerman (could be higher, but needs to prove it)

 

 

 

Ian Stewart and Ryan Braun probably need to figure in here somehow, too.

 

I agree Tim.

 

I don't know for how long Wright will be at 3rd though, but I'd say for the next five years he will be near the top. But his long- long term future is at 1st.

[Brendan]

I don't think Rolen has the glove he used to. I counted 4 misplayed balls on Sunday alone.

 

He seems to have lost a step. Probably from the time lost from last season, but he looked like Roger Dorn out there Sunday with the 'ole on several balls. I was expecting Lou Brown to come out of the dugout making him do some sit ups.

 

i'm pretty sure it says in rolen's contract that he doesn't have to do any unecessary calisthenics