Should McGwire be elected to the HOF next year?

[K-Town]

 

An "source" says that an "informant" says that "some guy" says that McGwire might have used something.

 

You're right..... there's MUCH more to it than I originally thought. Good grief.

 

Yeah except for the whole point when Canseco was the source, informant, and some guy in his book.

 

Wasn't it about this time last year that all the McGwire and Palmeiro supporters were dismissing Canseco's allegations as not credible? With Palemiro's positive test and McGwire's weak "testimony" at the hearings, even the most fervent Canseco haters must admit that Canseco's allegations have credibility.

 

I think that everybody has their own agenda, and will believe what they want to, when they want to believe it. If it's convenient to believe Canseco, then people find reasons to believe him. If it doesn't fit their agenda, then they find reasons NOT to believe him. It goes both ways. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, and something that we'll probably never know.

 

McGwire is retired and enjoying his life. He doesn't care, at this point.

[UK1679666180]

You don't need proof to not vote him in based on suspecting him of using steroids.

 

Writers have every right to not vote him in based on potential steroid usage.

[The Voice of Reason]

The present-day commisioner doesn't wield nearly the power that the comissioner did in Landis's day.

 

Landis never had to deal with a players' union.

 

 

Maybe not, but ESPN is reporting that Selig is considering a suspension.

 

Contrary to what many think, even in a criminal trial with a high burden of proof, a body or smoking gun is not required and overwhelming circumstantial evidence can convict someone - just ask Scott Petersen.

 

Selig should suspend Bonds now and worry about the players union later.

[stitchface]

Selig is now in can't win position really. I think most of the public believes Bonds is guilty and most believe McGwire and sosa are just as guilty. As a result, inaction hurts the game. However, he has no proof and even if he did, steroids were not against the rules. He has no basis to suspend bonds because bonds did not break the rules. Perhaps they can negotiate a career-ending injury that results in no further investigation by baseball, ensures everyone a HOF vote, and protects the homerun record.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

In an article discussing Bonds's HOF chances, I found this quote of intention by Rosenthal to be informative.

 

"I'm not going to vote for any of the current sluggers or pitchers on the first ballot,'' said Ken Rosenthal of FoxSports.com. "It's my way of protesting the use of steroids. Beyond the first ballot, I just don't know. I hope we'll become better informed."

 

 

Link.

 

This quote from the same article gives us more insight into the minds of the voters.

 

"It's not an issue for us right now, but beginning next year we will be dealing with it,'' Jack O'Connell, secretary-treasurer of the BBWAA, said this week. "As someone who has been counting ballots for 13 years, I can say our people don't like drug users. Dave Parker is getting next to no support, and Keith Hernandez is already off the ballot."

 

 

And from Bill Platche:

 

Bill Plaschke of the Los Angeles Times thinks the book "probably cost Bonds a place in the Hall of Fame.'' He told The Chronicle, "I would not vote for Barry Bonds, just as I will not vote for Mark McGwire or Sammy Sosa. In my mind, Bonds cheated the opponents, the fans and, worst of all, the game."

[K-Town]

In an article discussing Bonds's HOF chances, I found this quote of intention by Rosenthal to be informative.

 

"I'm not going to vote for any of the current sluggers or pitchers on the first ballot,'' said Ken Rosenthal of FoxSports.com. "It's my way of protesting the use of steroids. Beyond the first ballot, I just don't know. I hope we'll become better informed."

 

 

Link.

 

This quote from the same article gives us more insight into the minds of the voters.

 

"It's not an issue for us right now, but beginning next year we will be dealing with it,'' Jack O'Connell, secretary-treasurer of the BBWAA, said this week. "As someone who has been counting ballots for 13 years, I can say our people don't like drug users. Dave Parker is getting next to no support, and Keith Hernandez is already off the ballot."

 

 

And from Bill Platche:

 

Bill Plaschke of the Los Angeles Times thinks the book "probably cost Bonds a place in the Hall of Fame.'' He told The Chronicle, "I would not vote for Barry Bonds, just as I will not vote for Mark McGwire or Sammy Sosa. In my mind, Bonds cheated the opponents, the fans and, worst of all, the game."

 

Sounds like Rosenthal is the closest to the target. Either judge them ALL, or don't judge any of them. This "picking and choosing" that Plaschke is doing shows alot of ignorance.

[SouthSideRyan]

Plashcke being ignorant??? NEVER!!

[Andy]

There has for a long time been a clause in MLB's rulebook that players cannot use illegal substances, i.e. prohibited under the law. Anabolic steroids and most of the other PED's are illegal under the law, and therefore steroids have been illegal for a long time (I think around 1991 is when that clause was introduced). They have just done a miserable job enforcing it.

[Coach C]

I believe McGwire took steriods, but until you can prove it with evidence, he has all the right in the world to go in. MLB can't turn this into a witchhunt. Maybe Kirby Puckett took steriods? Should we leave him out of the HOF? The only difference was he didn't have to go infront of congress and everyone liked him.

 

Frankly, I believe that the MLB didn't test for the drugs because they were fine with the players taking them. More HR's and higher scores mean more fans. The McGwire vs. Sosa homerun-fest sure perked things up for baseball didn't it?

 

All the reporting and speculation, etc... in the world can't allow people to PROVE any of those guys took steriods. You should only be held out of the HOF if you tested positive and were suspended because of it.

 

Baseball didn't test for it until recently (although they still don't test for human growth hormone if I am not mistaken), so they basically were saying to go ahead and do it. It's like asking the catcher to honestly tell the ump if the last pitch he caught was a strike or a ball.

[XZero771679666304]

I believe McGwire took steriods, but until you can prove it with evidence, he has all the right in the world to go in. MLB can't turn this into a witchhunt. Maybe Kirby Puckett took steriods? Should we leave him out of the HOF? The only difference was he didn't have to go infront of congress and everyone liked him.

 

Frankly, I believe that the MLB didn't test for the drugs because they were fine with the players taking them. More HR's and higher scores mean more fans. The McGwire vs. Sosa homerun-fest sure perked things up for baseball didn't it?

 

All the reporting and speculation, etc... in the world can't allow people to PROVE any of those guys took steriods. You should only be held out of the HOF if you tested positive and were suspended because of it.

 

Baseball didn't test for it until recently (although they still don't test for human growth hormone if I am not mistaken), so they basically were saying to go ahead and do it. It's like asking the catcher to honestly tell the ump if the last pitch he caught was a strike or a ball.

 

The voters can vote for or not for anyone, and don't have to explain why. If they don't want to elect Bonds, Sosa or McGwire, they don't have to, even if it is just because of their suspicion.

 

Unfortunately not everything is clear cut, and this book probably did cost Bonds a shot at the hall, for right or wrong.

[TrueBlueCubFan]

MLB is to blame for not having a steroid policy @ during the majority of MacGuire,Palmeiro,Sosa & Bonds playing career's. However, it does not give any of these players the right to cheat & take a drug to give them a distinct advantage over others. If I had a vote, I'm with Rosenthal on this one, I would NOT vote any of these guys in the HOF, unless there was concrete evidense they did not take steroids. So far all 4 of these guys have more proof against them than for them.

[K-Town]

I believe McGwire took steriods, but until you can prove it with evidence, he has all the right in the world to go in. MLB can't turn this into a witchhunt. Maybe Kirby Puckett took steriods? Should we leave him out of the HOF? The only difference was he didn't have to go infront of congress and everyone liked him.

 

Frankly, I believe that the MLB didn't test for the drugs because they were fine with the players taking them. More HR's and higher scores mean more fans. The McGwire vs. Sosa homerun-fest sure perked things up for baseball didn't it?

 

All the reporting and speculation, etc... in the world can't allow people to PROVE any of those guys took steriods. You should only be held out of the HOF if you tested positive and were suspended because of it.

 

Baseball didn't test for it until recently (although they still don't test for human growth hormone if I am not mistaken), so they basically were saying to go ahead and do it. It's like asking the catcher to honestly tell the ump if the last pitch he caught was a strike or a ball.

 

The voters can vote for or not for anyone, and don't have to explain why. If they don't want to elect Bonds, Sosa or McGwire, they don't have to, even if it is just because of their suspicion.

 

Unfortunately not everything is clear cut, and this book probably did cost Bonds a shot at the hall, for right or wrong.

 

You're right..........the voters "can" vote for whomever they want to. They tend to be swayed by public opinion, however......... and there are probably enough "public idiots" to keep Sosa, McGwire, and Bonds out of the HOF. That's a shame. In my opinion, it's more of a HOF sham to keep these guys out than it would be to put them in, based on what we know (and don't know).

[CuseCubFan69]

MLB is to blame for not having a steroid policy @ during the majority of MacGuire,Palmeiro,Sosa & Bonds playing career's. However, it does not give any of these players the right to cheat & take a drug to give them a distinct advantage over others. If I had a vote, I'm with Rosenthal on this one, I would NOT vote any of these guys in the HOF, unless there was concrete evidense they did not take steroids. So far all 4 of these guys have more proof against them than for them.

 

I blame MLB for ignoring the steroid and other drug issues because they were making tons of cash. Once again they didn't see the big picture and hopefully they learn for this.

 

I also think they should go after everyone or no one. I don't like Bonds but I think it's unfair to just go after him.

[Coach C]

MLB is to blame for not having a steroid policy @ during the majority of MacGuire,Palmeiro,Sosa & Bonds playing career's. However, it does not give any of these players the right to cheat & take a drug to give them a distinct advantage over others. If I had a vote, I'm with Rosenthal on this one, I would NOT vote any of these guys in the HOF, unless there was concrete evidense they did not take steroids. So far all 4 of these guys have more proof against them than for them.

 

I blame MLB for ignoring the steroid and other drug issues because they were making tons of cash. Once again they didn't see the big picture and hopefully they learn for this.

 

I also think they should go after everyone or no one. I don't like Bonds but I think it's unfair to just go after him.

 

I agree. It's unfair to go just after him. I'm sure there are some others that are getting away from it. Book or no book, Bonds is still innocent until proven gulty, in other words, that he was either:

 

A) Caught red-handed with the steroid

B) Failed test

[goonys evil twin]

I agree. It's unfair to go just after him. I'm sure there are some others that are getting away from it. Book or no book, Bonds is still innocent until proven gulty, in other words, that he was either:

 

A) Caught red-handed with the steroid

B) Failed test

 

Innocent until proven guilty is for the courts of law. In the court of public opinion, it's not a justified standard. There's nothing wrong with the masses collectively coming to a general conclusion after seeing a set of what may be considered circumstantial evidence. The courts found OJ innocent, that doesn't mean we all have to pretend he is.

 

I don't see how any of this is "just going after Barry". MLB has clearly "gone after" others. And it seems pretty obvious they will continue to go after others. The fact is there is more evidence surrounding the Barry Bonds situation than there is just about any other player.

[K-Town]

I agree. It's unfair to go just after him. I'm sure there are some others that are getting away from it. Book or no book, Bonds is still innocent until proven gulty, in other words, that he was either:

 

A) Caught red-handed with the steroid

B) Failed test

 

Innocent until proven guilty is for the courts of law. In the court of public opinion, it's not a justified standard. There's nothing wrong with the masses collectively coming to a general conclusion after seeing a set of what may be considered circumstantial evidence. The courts found OJ innocent, that doesn't mean we all have to pretend he is.

 

I don't see how any of this is "just going after Barry". MLB has clearly "gone after" others. And it seems pretty obvious they will continue to go after others. The fact is there is more evidence surrounding the Barry Bonds situation than there is just about any other player.

 

That's only because there's been more digging.

 

Dig into every players matters as much as Bonds' have been dug into, and I'll bet you'd find a reason to keep A LOT of players out of the HOF.

[goonys evil twin]

That's only because there's been more digging.

 

Dig into every players matters as much as Bonds' have been dug into, and I'll bet you'd find a reason to keep A LOT of players out of the HOF.

 

That's not MLB's fault. And it's probably not entirely true. Bonds associated himself with a notorious drug cheat and steroid company. It didn't take much digging to get to the BALCO stuff. And it doesn't take much digging to look at his physical attributes and unprecedented career path and form an opinion.

 

People need to stop making excuses for Bonds. If he's being "singled out" he's one of many who have been "singled out" which negates the whole concept of being "singled out".

 

And I doubt you'll find a lot of HOF worthy players with as much dirt as Barry has. A few, sure. McGwire and Sosa? Quite possibly. But Barry pretty much brought this on himself and deserves any criticism he receives.

[Yeti]

grumble grumble grumble NO!!!

until the whole steroid mess is sorted out, there should be a temporary moratorium put on all steroid era players from being inducted or being handed records

[USSoccer]

grumble grumble grumble NO!!!

until the whole steroid mess is sorted out, there should be a temporary moratorium put on all steroid era players from being inducted or being handed records

 

As opposed to the era ewhere the mound was higher, as opposed to the cocaine era, as opposed to the era where guys used spitballs and scuffed the ball....

[K-Town]

grumble grumble grumble NO!!!

until the whole steroid mess is sorted out, there should be a temporary moratorium put on all steroid era players from being inducted or being handed records

 

As opposed to the era ewhere the mound was higher, as opposed to the cocaine era, as opposed to the era where guys used spitballs and scuffed the ball....

 

..... and the eras when some of the best players in the world (blacks, hispanics, etc.) weren't allowed into the game, and the amphetamine era......etc. etc. etc......

[Tim]

grumble grumble grumble NO!!!

until the whole steroid mess is sorted out, there should be a temporary moratorium put on all steroid era players from being inducted or being handed records

What about Gwynn?

[K-Town]

grumble grumble grumble NO!!!

until the whole steroid mess is sorted out, there should be a temporary moratorium put on all steroid era players from being inducted or being handed records

What about Gwynn?

 

Why not? Is there any proof that he wasn't using steroids? Because that seems to be the standard set for McGwire & Sosa........... Prove that you weren't, or you're out.

[treebird]

grumble grumble grumble NO!!!

until the whole steroid mess is sorted out, there should be a temporary moratorium put on all steroid era players from being inducted or being handed records

What about Gwynn?

 

Why not? Is there any proof that he wasn't using steroids? Because that seems to be the standard set for McGwire & Sosa........... Prove that you weren't, or you're out.

 

his head looks a LOT bigger at the end of his career

 

http://71.226.198.246/images/aa441.jpg

 

http://static.flickr.com/11/13572949_0becceae31_o.jpg

[rocket]

hahahaha, oh snap

[Andy]

Everything about Gwynn was bigger at the end of his career, though...

 

I agree with K-Town, though. There's no reason to be banning Mac and Sammy until we get something more concrete than "look at their behavior at the Congressional hearing and look at their muscles".