Offman (the Score) reporting Cubs hot after Lugo

[stitchface]

I don't understand why you would want him to "go away." What's the harm in him hanging around?

 

He can't stay healthy for even a half year. He makes Wood look like an iron man. (Not knocking Wood, he's one of my favorite players.) He needs to do something pretty soon to justify his spot on the 40 man roster.

 

well, not much was lost this year. I guess that evaluation can be made next fall. They should have traded Guzman a couple years ago. I am wondering if drafting and developing pitchers is really a good way to go.

 

I'm not doubting that its' a good plan, I just doubt whether the Cubs now how to do it well, and if taking that plan to the extreme is smart.

 

Developing cheap pitchers is great, the problem seems to be keeping them healthy. And its not just the cubs. look at the mariners, white sox, mets . . .Guzman is more typical than atypical. I think there were red-flags with him that the cubs failed to recognize.

[Bull]

I don't understand why you would want him to "go away." What's the harm in him hanging around?

 

He can't stay healthy for even a half year. He makes Wood look like an iron man. (Not knocking Wood, he's one of my favorite players.) He needs to do something pretty soon to justify his spot on the 40 man roster.

 

well, not much was lost this year. I guess that evaluation can be made next fall. They should have traded Guzman a couple years ago. I am wondering if drafting and developing pitchers is really a good way to go.

 

I sure hope it is. That's the only legitimate, consistent plan we've seen from the Cubs over the last 5-10 years.

 

It has resulted Wood over Jamie Jones or Todd Helton, Prior over Teixera or Chris Burke (ok, just Teixera).

 

Though the failures have been many, the few times it is successful outweigh the greater likelihood of injury.........i think.

 

I dunno

[Wheelimus]

Yikes, I did not realize how BAD Lugo has been throughout his career.

 

Man, what's with the hyperbole today?

 

First ALL of the blame for Corey falls on the Cubs, and now Julio Lugo has been BAD throughout his career?

 

1) I already said that was a mistype and should have been "most"

 

2) Maybe bad wasn't the right word either, but I wouldn't call him good. In 2004 in MLB, his OPS ranked him 13th of 21 as far as shortstops go. He's going to give you a .330 or so OBP. Maybe I expect too much out of shortstops, but that's just not good enough for me, not for $5 million, and not when Cedeno will give you that for 300K

[goonys evil twin]

2) Maybe bad wasn't the right word either, but I wouldn't call him good. In 2004 in MLB, his OPS ranked him 13th of 21 as far as shortstops go. He's going to give you a .330 or so OBP. Maybe I expect too much out of shortstops, but that's just not good enough for me, not for $5 million, and not when Cedeno will give you that for 300K

 

Cedeno is nowhere near a guarantee to give you that. Lugo is much better than bad. He can be pretty good, not great, or close to great. He's above average. But he probably doesn't have a lot of time left at above average, because it doesn't take long for average-to-above-average middle infielders to lose their value.

[jmajew]

First of all I don't think there is any chance the Red Sox would trade Marte straight up for Lugo. I think it would end up being some kind of package deal that would net them both Lugo and Gaithright. I could see Marte and one of their 5-10 pitching prospects for those two. And don't forget the Red Sox need for a leadoff hitter is not as great as everyone is making it out to be. They did trade for Mark Loretta who is very adequate. So the Red Sox biggest need is probably CF. A lineup of Lugo, Loretta, Ortiz, Manny, Varitek, Lowell, Nixon, Snow/Youklis, and Gaithright is still one of the best in baseball.

 

With regards to the Cubs trading for Lugo I'd be all for it. My bet is we could get him for a package of Hill and Wellenmeyer. However, if I were Hendry I would not even think about this deal unless he gets Baker's word that he WILL play Cedeno at short and Lugo at second. With each of them getting about 140-150 starts, allow Nefi to start a decent amount of games. Pierre, Lugo, Lee, Jones, Ramirez, Barrett, Murton, Cedeno in all honesty look like an upgraded lineup over last years. Simply for the fact that our 1-2 will have an OBP of around 340.

[JeffH]

Just go get Adam Kennedy and pass on Lugo.

[CubfaninCA]

Just go get Adam Kennedy and pass on Lugo.

 

Too bad Anaheim's a smart organization and wouldn't deal Kennedy straight up for Walker.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Just go get Adam Kennedy and pass on Lugo.

 

Too bad Anaheim's a smart organization and wouldn't deal Kennedy straight up for Walker.

 

On the whole they are pretty much equals. Similar OBP, and Walker's slugging advantage counteracts Kennedy's defensive advantage. I don't think they'd have any interest in taking back a 2B anyways.

[Backtobanks]

2) Maybe bad wasn't the right word either, but I wouldn't call him good. In 2004 in MLB, his OPS ranked him 13th of 21 as far as shortstops go. He's going to give you a .330 or so OBP. Maybe I expect too much out of shortstops, but that's just not good enough for me, not for $5 million, and not when Cedeno will give you that for 300K

 

Cedeno is nowhere near a guarantee to give you that. Lugo is much better than bad. He can be pretty good, not great, or close to great. He's above average. But he probably doesn't have a lot of time left at above average, because it doesn't take long for average-to-above-average middle infielders to lose their value.

 

I stated earlier in this post: Cedeno will not only give you a good season this year, he will match Furcal's best numbers in 2-3 years thereby being much better than Lugo. The only reason to trade for Lugo is to guarantee a spot on the bench for Perez.

[TXCubsFan]

Perhaps the Cubs will use a Neifi!/Hairston platoon at 2B for the next year or two until EPatt is ready?

[jtownie]

Isn't Lugo in a contract year? I think he'd definitely be worth having as a SS/2B. Having a very motivated Lugo could only stand to benefit this team. Especially at a very reasonable price. The defense up the middle of a Lugo/Cedeno combo could be one of the best in the league. Granted he doesn't have the power of Walker but Lugo still provides a good OBP combined with some speed and good success rate in SB. It will also allow Cedeno to be in the lower part of the order where there will be less pressure to perform.

 

If we got Huff in the deal I think that would definitely signal Murton being trade bait....possibly Zito.

[Ram1380]

Perhaps the Cubs will use a Neifi!/Hairston platoon at 2B for the next year or two until EPatt is ready?

 

 

If Hairston is given the righthanded pitcher part of the platoon it might be OK, if memory serves, Hairston has reverse splits while as Neifi! is decent batting righthanded versus lefties.

[UK1679666180]

Perhaps the Cubs will use a Neifi!/Hairston platoon at 2B for the next year or two until EPatt is ready?

 

 

If Hairston is given the righthanded pitcher part of the platoon it might be OK, if memory serves, Hairston has reverse splits while as Neifi! is decent batting righthanded versus lefties.

 

If reverse splits were emphasized, Remlinger would've never seen that many LH'ed batters.

 

If it was a Perez/Hairston platoon, Perez would likely see too many ABs.

[Ram1380]

Perhaps the Cubs will use a Neifi!/Hairston platoon at 2B for the next year or two until EPatt is ready?

 

 

If Hairston is given the righthanded pitcher part of the platoon it might be OK, if memory serves, Hairston has reverse splits while as Neifi! is decent batting righthanded versus lefties.

 

If reverse splits were emphasized, Remlinger would've never seen that many LH'ed batters.

 

If it was a Perez/Hairston platoon, Perez would likely see too many ABs.

 

 

 

Without question UK.

 

 

Why oh wht must he be so pig headed???

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Perhaps the Cubs will use a Neifi!/Hairston platoon at 2B for the next year or two until EPatt is ready?

 

 

If Hairston is given the righthanded pitcher part of the platoon it might be OK, if memory serves, Hairston has reverse splits while as Neifi! is decent batting righthanded versus lefties.

 

Nope, that was only last year. For his career, Hairston has a modest 20 point advantage in BA and SLG against LHP compared to RHP. The numbers are close enough that's there no real advantage to him going against lefty or righty. Though Dusty won't see it that way of course.

 

Neifi has the same, miserable 300 OBP against LHP and RHP. The split difference for him is in SLG, where he typically gets 50 to 70 points advantage against LHP. Not enough to warrant him getting PT, but it should be noted that against lefties, Neifi's typical OPS of 725 to 750 becomes marginally acceptable if he hits low in the order.

[WrigleyinEngland]

Is anyone hearing anything more about this? I would really like a lugo trade . Not just for the obvious reason that it gets rid of neifi but i also like the sparplug combo of JP and Lugo at the top of the order.

[Illini Iceman]

Is anyone hearing anything more about this? I would really like a lugo trade . Not just for the obvious reason that it gets rid of neifi but i also like the sparplug combo of JP and Lugo at the top of the order.

 

Reports here in Tampa are that the Rays are holding out on Boston for Marte. I can't think who in the Cubs system would give them equal value as Marte and make sense for the Cubs to give up in order to get Lugo for one year.

 

Unless he comes cheap (which by all indications he won't) it seems to me that the better idea is to let Cedeno have a run at it. His production should be close enough to Lugo that it would not justify moving a top prospect.

 

If Cedeno flames out and Boston doesn't give in on the Marte demands then maybe around mid-season Lugo will be available for less since the Rays will be seeing his FA on the near horizon.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I doubt the Cubs could match the quality of Marte, but they might try to overwhelm them with quanity.

 

A deal of Welly, Harvey or Dopirak, and Marmol or Marshall might get their interest.

[WindyCity]

A deal of Welly, Harvey or Dopirak, and Marmol or Marshall might get their interest.

 

And would be grossly overpaying IMO.... especially for a guy entering his contract year. I would think the Cubs could get a lot more than Lugo for Welly, Dope, and Marshall or a combo of Welly, Harvey, and Marmol (and I consider Welly pretty much a throw-in at this point).

Edited January 12, 2006 by WindyCity

[don_kessinger_was_good]

If Boston trades Marte for Lugo, they're dumb.

[Balsa]

A deal of Welly, Harvey or Dopirak, and Marmol or Marshall might get their interest.

 

And would be grossly overpaying IMO.... especially for a guy entering his contract year. I would think the Cubs could get a lot more than Lugo for Welly, Dope, and Marshall or a combo of Welly, Harvey, and Marmol (and I consider Welly pretty much a throw-in at this point).

 

Didn't he do really well in AAA once they stuck him in the bullpen? Or was that Koronka...I always get those two mixed up...

[RockTheIvy]

We aren't getting Lugo. I got that feeling. That George Jose Offman feeling.

[NorthsideAvenger]

I doubt the Cubs could match the quality of Marte, but they might try to overwhelm them with quanity.

 

A deal of Welly, Harvey or Dopirak, and Marmol or Marshall might get their interest.

 

With that kind of package, the Cubs better be getting somebody like McClung or Banskton back in return. NO WAY is Lugo is worth more then one solid prospect, regardless of what ATL/Bos were alledgely offering. When it comes down to it, TB has to realize which has more value to their organization, 1 (maybe a 2nd, depending the season Lugo has) draft pick in the 13-20 range, or say at worst 2 solid prospects. Because if they don't trade Lugo, then they will lost a "bidding partner" in the Cubs, cause I feel Cedeno is going to be VERY GOOD this yr.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/friv/scomp.cgi?I=perezne01:Neifi+Perez&st=int&compage=25&age=25

 

We could get Cintron---who is slightly better player thru age 25 then Lugo was---prolly for Welly and Perez (the kid we got for Patterson). Who could visible have a better SEASON then Lugo.

Edited January 12, 2006 by NorthsideAvenger

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I doubt the Cubs could match the quality of Marte, but they might try to overwhelm them with quanity.

 

A deal of Welly, Harvey or Dopirak, and Marmol or Marshall might get their interest.

 

With that kind of package, the Cubs better be getting somebody like McClung or Banskton back in return. NO WAY is Lugo is worth more then one solid prospect, regardless of what ATL/Bos were alledgely offering. When it comes down to it, TB has to realize which has more value to their organization, 1 (more a 2nd, depending the season Lugo has) draft in the 13-20 range, or say at worst 2 solid prospects. Because if they don't trade Lugo, then they will lost a "bidding partner" in the Cubs, cause I feel Cedeno is going to be VERY GOOD this yr.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/friv/scomp.cgi?I=perezne01:Neifi+Perez&st=int&compage=25&age=25

 

We could get Cintron---who is slightly better player thru age 25 then Lugo was---prolly for Welly and Perez (the kid we got for Patterson).

 

Lugo is worth what Tampa can get for him. I'm not sold on getting him, but it will definitely take such a package to get the Rays attention.

[NorthsideAvenger]

I doubt the Cubs could match the quality of Marte, but they might try to overwhelm them with quanity.

 

A deal of Welly, Harvey or Dopirak, and Marmol or Marshall might get their interest.

 

With that kind of package, the Cubs better be getting somebody like McClung or Banskton back in return. NO WAY is Lugo is worth more then one solid prospect, regardless of what ATL/Bos were alledgely offering. When it comes down to it, TB has to realize which has more value to their organization, 1 (more a 2nd, depending the season Lugo has) draft in the 13-20 range, or say at worst 2 solid prospects. Because if they don't trade Lugo, then they will lost a "bidding partner" in the Cubs, cause I feel Cedeno is going to be VERY GOOD this yr.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/friv/scomp.cgi?I=perezne01:Neifi+Perez&st=int&compage=25&age=25

 

We could get Cintron---who is slightly better player thru age 25 then Lugo was---prolly for Welly and Perez (the kid we got for Patterson).

 

Lugo is worth what Tampa can get for him. I'm not sold on getting him, but it will definitely take such a package to get the Rays attention.

 

Yeah, but unlike alot teams who are interested in Lugo, the Cubs do have a LEGITIMATE SS (Cedeno) and a LEGITIMATE 2B (Walker, and to a certain degree Hairston), so the Cubs don't have offer more then say Moore and Welly.