Marquis Grissom signs with the Cubs

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Let's be honest. Replacing Nomar with Pierre is a net gain. Nomar gave us next to nothing due to his injuries, and what he did give he gave in garbage time. I think it is hard to overstate just how much someone with a respectable OBP at the top of the order will improve the team. Also, Murton playing from the get go will have to be a marked improvement over the Holla/Dubois/Lawton crapfest we watched for most of 2005. And Cedeno will be a large offensive improvement over Neifi.

 

Let's look at it this way:

 

Pierre >> Patterson

Cedeno >>> Neifi

Lee = Lee (expecting a slight decline)

ARam = ARam (if he stays healthy, even better)

Jones = Burnitz

Murton >> Holla/Dubois/Gerut/Lawton

Barrett = Barrett

Second base is TBD

 

I would not expect this year's total LF production to be significantly better than last year's total LF production. The Cubs LF put up .265 .319 .418 last sesaon, and while I would hope Murton can do better, somebody else is going to get a lot of time, and will probably drag down the number.

 

If Murton gets the lion's share of the PT, I think it is perfectly reasonable to expect at least a .050 boost in OPS from LF. If being the operative word.

 

I think it's far from certain that Murton will put up an .800 OPS.

 

Well, if .319 + .418 = .800, then I wouldn't have made that statement. I think an OPS of .785 is perfectly reasonable to expect, and far more conservative than some others here have predicted for him. He put up a .907 OPS in 2005, and if you subract his bloop and nub hits, I think .785 is a realistic guess.

 

A bit of fuzzy math on my part about the .800, but .785 would exceed my expectations.

[sethuel1]

It is a contract year for Pierre, so this coming year is as good as any for him to produce at his highest potential.

 

He has a whole lot to lose if he has another year like last year.

 

That is, until we sign him to an extension that keeps this from being a contract year.

[XZero771679666304]

Let's be honest. Replacing Nomar with Pierre is a net gain. Nomar gave us next to nothing due to his injuries, and what he did give he gave in garbage time. I think it is hard to overstate just how much someone with a respectable OBP at the top of the order will improve the team. Also, Murton playing from the get go will have to be a marked improvement over the Holla/Dubois/Lawton crapfest we watched for most of 2005. And Cedeno will be a large offensive improvement over Neifi.

 

Let's look at it this way:

 

Pierre >> Patterson

Cedeno >>> Neifi

Lee = Lee (expecting a slight decline)

ARam = ARam (if he stays healthy, even better)

Jones = Burnitz

Murton >> Holla/Dubois/Gerut/Lawton

Barrett = Barrett

Second base is TBD

 

I would not expect this year's total LF production to be significantly better than last year's total LF production. The Cubs LF put up .265 .319 .418 last sesaon, and while I would hope Murton can do better, somebody else is going to get a lot of time, and will probably drag down the number.

 

If Murton gets the lion's share of the PT, I think it is perfectly reasonable to expect at least a .050 boost in OPS from LF. If being the operative word.

 

I think it's far from certain that Murton will put up an .800 OPS.

 

Well, if .319 + .418 = .800, then I wouldn't have made that statement. I think an OPS of .785 is perfectly reasonable to expect, and far more conservative than some others here have predicted for him. He put up a .907 OPS in 2005, and if you subract his bloop and nub hits, I think .785 is a realistic guess.

 

A bit of fuzzy math on my part about the .800, but .785 would exceed my expectations.

 

What would you expect?

[Mizzou]

11 pages later...

 

Has anyone besides a Denver newspaper reported this? Anyone in, oh I don't know, Chicago said anything?

[BigbadB]

Murton: .785

Pierre: .730 lifetime

Jones: .782 lifetime

 

Hmm.

 

And we want to get rid of Walker and his .829 OPS last year? Derrek Lee will absolutely need to duplicate his 2005 season, especially if Ramirez misses any time.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I think it's far from certain that Murton will put up an .800 OPS.

 

Well, if .319 + .418 = .800, then I wouldn't have made that statement. I think an OPS of .785 is perfectly reasonable to expect, and far more conservative than some others here have predicted for him. He put up a .907 OPS in 2005, and if you subract his bloop and nub hits, I think .785 is a realistic guess.

 

A bit of fuzzy math on my part about the .800, but .785 would exceed my expectations.

 

What would you expect?

 

Roughly .280/.340/.420, not a substantial upgrade over last year.

[Laura]

11 pages later...

 

Has anyone besides a Denver newspaper reported this? Anyone in, oh I don't know, Chicago said anything?

 

No. There was a Rotoworld mention of it based on the Denver Post blurb.

[Blueheart05]

For the record, what Rotoworld would do isn't the same as what Dusty would do.

 

Come on, please be reasonable here. It makes no sense to over expose Grissom by having him start over Murton or platoon with him. Even Dusty knows Murton hits well against LHP (I would be concerned if Marquis was lefthanded). Logic dictates that he will split time with Jones

 

I missed this one while I was out working in the garage. Reasonable is thinking that Grissom would play in place of Murton long before he plays in place of Jones when Dusty is the manager.

 

Last year when Murton got called up, he got very little playing time if any. The Cubs used Hollandsworth, Dubois until that proved inadequate. They used Hairston and Gerut while Murton was available. They traded for Lawton while Murton was outproducing all of them.

 

Only once the season was basically over for Cubs playoff chances did Murton get any significant playing time. Jones makes big money. Dusty doesn't sit the big money guys.

 

Same thing with Cedeno. When Cedeno was the best available option while Nomar and Walker were out, Enrique Wilson was brought in and Cedeno was sent down.

 

I watch this team daily too. I've lost a lot of faith in Dusty doing the right thing. Dusty is also the same guy who made the comment that light skinned players can't handle playing most of their games in the hot daytime sun like dark skinned players, so who sits on back to back hot days in the sun? Jones or Murton? Maybe Dusty will prove me wrong. But, until he does, I have every reason to be extremely skeptical at this point.

 

 

If Murton is still on this team when the season starts (and no big name LF is acquired) I think Murton will start. I know Dusty fills out the lineup cards but I think this year his hands will be tied because Hendry has already gone on record to say that Murton will be the starting LF and his job is on the line. Whether or not Dusty wants this job is up for debate but I don't think he wants to be fired for being in opposition with his GM (who's job may also be on the line baring an extension).

 

On the subject of Grissom, there aren't that many LHP so platooning with Jones (even a strict platoon which I don't think will happen) won't net Marquis too many starting opportunities. If the Cubs sign him it will be as a bench player.

[YearofDaCubs]

For the record, what Rotoworld would do isn't the same as what Dusty would do.

 

Come on, please be reasonable here. It makes no sense to over expose Grissom by having him start over Murton or platoon with him. Even Dusty knows Murton hits well against LHP (I would be concerned if Marquis was lefthanded). Logic dictates that he will split time with Jones

 

I missed this one while I was out working in the garage. Reasonable is thinking that Grissom would play in place of Murton long before he plays in place of Jones when Dusty is the manager.

 

Last year when Murton got called up, he got very little playing time if any. The Cubs used Hollandsworth, Dubois until that proved inadequate. They used Hairston and Gerut while Murton was available. They traded for Lawton while Murton was outproducing all of them.

 

Only once the season was basically over for Cubs playoff chances did Murton get any significant playing time. Jones makes big money. Dusty doesn't sit the big money guys.

 

Same thing with Cedeno. When Cedeno was the best available option while Nomar and Walker were out, Enrique Wilson was brought in and Cedeno was sent down.

 

I watch this team daily too. I've lost a lot of faith in Dusty doing the right thing. Dusty is also the same guy who made the comment that light skinned players can't handle playing most of their games in the hot daytime sun like dark skinned players, so who sits on back to back hot days in the sun? Jones or Murton? Maybe Dusty will prove me wrong. But, until he does, I have every reason to be extremely skeptical at this point.

 

 

If Murton is still on this team when the season starts (and no big name LF is acquired) I think Murton will start. I know Dusty fills out the lineup cards but I think this year his hands will be tied because Hendry has already gone on record to say that Murton will be the starting LF and his job is on the line. Whether or not Dusty wants this job is up for debate but I don't think he wants to be fired for being in opposition with his GM (who's job may also be on the line baring an extension).

 

On the subject of Grissom, there aren't that many LHP so platooning with Jones (even a strict platoon which I don't think will happen) won't net Marquis too many starting opportunities. If the Cubs sign him it will be as a bench player.

I honestly would prefer to see Greenberg on the bench over Grissom.

[daske17]

If Murton is still on this team when the season starts (and no big name LF is acquired) I think Murton will start. I know Dusty fills out the lineup cards but I think this year his hands will be tied because Hendry has already gone on record to say that Murton will be the starting LF and his job is on the line. Whether or not Dusty wants this job is up for debate but I don't think he wants to be fired for being in opposition with his GM (who's job may also be on the line baring an extension).

 

On the subject of Grissom, there aren't that many LHP so platooning with Jones (even a strict platoon which I don't think will happen) won't net Marquis too many starting opportunities. If the Cubs sign him it will be as a bench player.

 

I'm not so sure of that. Wasn't one of the big reasons Dusty didn't receive an extension in SF because he didn't get along with Sabean. It seems to be his mode of operation to cause a rift between himself and the GM so he can leave "adhering to his principles."

[BigbadB]

If Murton is still on this team when the season starts (and no big name LF is acquired) I think Murton will start. I know Dusty fills out the lineup cards but I think this year his hands will be tied because Hendry has already gone on record to say that Murton will be the starting LF and his job is on the line. Whether or not Dusty wants this job is up for debate but I don't think he wants to be fired for being in opposition with his GM (who's job may also be on the line baring an extension).

 

On the subject of Grissom, there aren't that many LHP so platooning with Jones (even a strict platoon which I don't think will happen) won't net Marquis too many starting opportunities. If the Cubs sign him it will be as a bench player.

 

And I can respect your opinion. However, I don't see it that way. Hendry basically said Dubois was his starting LFer for 2005. Didn't happen. Hollandsworth was brought back to be the pinch hit extraordinaire that he was in 2004. Didn't happen.

 

Dubois got 7 starts in April. He finished April with a .346 AVG. In the first 8 games in May, he got 5 at bats total. After that long layoff, all of a sudden, Dusty gave Dubois the everyday job.

 

31 at bats total over the first 31 games of the season, then blam, thrust into the starting job. Meanwhile, Hollandsworth was about as horrible as it gets as an everyday LFer. Granted, Dubois didn't amount to anything, but Dusty gave Hollandsworth and his .211 AVG all the playing time over a guy hitting .346 and having a hot month.

 

The first time Murton has an 0fer, we should all be very scared.

[Blueheart05]

If Murton is still on this team when the season starts (and no big name LF is acquired) I think Murton will start. I know Dusty fills out the lineup cards but I think this year his hands will be tied because Hendry has already gone on record to say that Murton will be the starting LF and his job is on the line. Whether or not Dusty wants this job is up for debate but I don't think he wants to be fired for being in opposition with his GM (who's job may also be on the line baring an extension).

 

On the subject of Grissom, there aren't that many LHP so platooning with Jones (even a strict platoon which I don't think will happen) won't net Marquis too many starting opportunities. If the Cubs sign him it will be as a bench player.

 

I'm not so sure of that. Wasn't one of the big reasons Dusty didn't receive an extension in SF because he didn't get along with Sabean. It seems to be his mode of operation to cause a rift between himself and the GM so he can leave "adhering to his principles."

 

Touche LOL, I knew after I posted it that the Giants would come up. I don't know the specific reason(s) he was fired but direct opposition/insubordination isn't usually received well by anyone. Thus far, Hendry seems to be in support of Baker so I don't see him (Dusty) doing very much to jeopardize the relationship.

 

It would also be a reason for him not to let it happen again (heaven forbid there be that pattern). I'm sure he'd like to manage again elsewhere.

[Blueheart05]

If Murton is still on this team when the season starts (and no big name LF is acquired) I think Murton will start. I know Dusty fills out the lineup cards but I think this year his hands will be tied because Hendry has already gone on record to say that Murton will be the starting LF and his job is on the line. Whether or not Dusty wants this job is up for debate but I don't think he wants to be fired for being in opposition with his GM (who's job may also be on the line baring an extension).

 

On the subject of Grissom, there aren't that many LHP so platooning with Jones (even a strict platoon which I don't think will happen) won't net Marquis too many starting opportunities. If the Cubs sign him it will be as a bench player.

 

And I can respect your opinion. However, I don't see it that way. Hendry basically said Dubois was his starting LFer for 2005. Didn't happen. Hollandsworth was brought back to be the pinch hit extraordinaire that he was in 2004. Didn't happen.

 

Dubois got 7 starts in April. He finished April with a .346 AVG. In the first 8 games in May, he got 5 at bats total. After that long layoff, all of a sudden, Dusty gave Dubois the everyday job.

 

31 at bats total over the first 31 games of the season, then blam, thrust into the starting job. Meanwhile, Hollandsworth was about as horrible as it gets as an everyday LFer. Granted, Dubois didn't amount to anything, but Dusty gave Hollandsworth and his .211 AVG all the playing time over a guy hitting .346 and having a hot month.

 

The first time Murton has an 0fer, we should all be very scared.

 

Unlike his Muton comments, Hendry never said Dubois was the starting LF. He always talked about the wealth of talent (:D ) they could play in LF. In his heart, he was hoping Hollandsworth would get the job because Dubois was an huge defensive liability.

[Roast]

In his heart, he was hoping Hollandsworth would get the job because Dubois was an huge defensive liability.

 

And you know this how?

 

Sorry, but you always seem to be calling people out for statements similar to this one.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

In his heart, he was hoping Hollandsworth would get the job because Dubois was an huge defensive liability.

 

Hollandsworth and Dubois were identical in Rate last year, they weren't that much different defensively.

[Blueheart05]

In his heart, he was hoping Hollandsworth would get the job because Dubois was an huge defensive liability.

 

Hollandsworth and Dubois were identical in Rate last year, they weren't that much different defensively.

 

That is not a good thing considering Dubois had fewer opportunities. The rate may have been identical at year's end but Dubois was worse by far. He rarely took a good route to a ball, he didn't throw accurately, and his misjudgements caused runs to score. Hollandsworth was a more consistent defender.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

In his heart, he was hoping Hollandsworth would get the job because Dubois was an huge defensive liability.

 

Hollandsworth and Dubois were identical in Rate last year, they weren't that much different defensively.

 

That is not a good thing considering Dubois had fewer opportunities. The rate may have been identical at year's end but Dubois was worse by far. He rarely took a good route to a ball, he didn't throw accurately, and his misjudgements caused runs to score. Hollandsworth was a more consistent defender.

 

Rate is an all-encompassing metric. I'm not saying it's gospel, but it's a misconception that Dubois was significantly worse than Hollandsworth defensively.

[Blueheart05]

In his heart, he was hoping Hollandsworth would get the job because Dubois was an huge defensive liability.

 

And you know this how?

 

Sorry, but you always seem to be calling people out for statements similar to this one.

 

Calling people out? That's your opinion. I try to treat people with respect whether I agree with them or not.

 

Dubois was traded because he was a bad defender. I think that speaks volumes.

[oldcubsfan]

In his heart, he was hoping Hollandsworth would get the job because Dubois was an huge defensive liability.

 

And you know this how?

 

Sorry, but you always seem to be calling people out for statements similar to this one.

 

Calling people out? That's your opinion. I try to treat people with respect whether I agree with them or not.

 

Dubois was traded because he was a bad defender. I think that speaks volumes.

That and he couldn't hit a major league curve. He doesn't seem to be in Cleveland's plans either, along with other former Cub minor league phenoms, Cruz, Choi, Hill, Harris and others that many thought would be stars.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

In his heart, he was hoping Hollandsworth would get the job because Dubois was an huge defensive liability.

 

And you know this how?

 

Sorry, but you always seem to be calling people out for statements similar to this one.

 

Calling people out? That's your opinion. I try to treat people with respect whether I agree with them or not.

 

Dubois was traded because he was a bad defender. I think that speaks volumes.

That and he couldn't hit a major league curve. He doesn't seem to be in Cleveland's plans either, along with other former Cub minor league phenoms, Cruz, Choi, Hill, Harris and others that many thought would be stars.

 

Yes, all those other names are relevant. Do Hollandsworth, Karros, and Estes have better chances?

[oldcubsfan]

what are you trying to say? Are you saying those guys weren't over rated here?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

what are you trying to say? Are you saying those guys weren't over rated here?

 

They're irrelevant to the current argument. You constantly claim that those players were claimed to be superstars by people on here, and constantly ignore the fact that the outrage is due to the crappy players that played instead of them.

Edited December 31, 2005 by Transmogrified Tiger

[USSoccer]

what are you trying to say? Are you saying those guys weren't over rated here?

 

Yeah, they were, a little, but I think the point is, when you compare HOllandsworth, Karros and Estes to Cruz, Choi and Dubois, you're talking about a bunch of guys that are equally mediocre, so why not go with the potential upside/breakout potential or lower cost of the young guys, vs bringing in vets that will definetly prevent one of the young guys from busting out, and won't be any better than the kids?

[BigbadB]

what are you trying to say? Are you saying those guys weren't over rated here?

 

So what if those guys were overrated here. What's your point?

 

No one here knows what their talking about? Should we "hope" all the Cubs prospects suck?

 

As overrated as they might have been, Choi turned into Derrek Lee, Bobby Hill turned into Aramis Ramirez and Kenny Lofton, Brendan Harris turned into Nomar and Juan Cruz turned into the infamous Andy Pratt.

 

Tell me how that's not a good thing? Indulge me rather than insult me.

 

Thanks in advance.

[oldcubsfan]

what are you trying to say? Are you saying those guys weren't over rated here?

 

So what if those guys were overrated here. What's your point?

 

No one here knows what their talking about? Should we "hope" all the Cubs prospects suck?

 

As overrated as they might have been, Choi turned into Derrek Lee, Bobby Hill turned into Aramis Ramirez and Kenny Lofton, Brendan Harris turned into Nomar and Juan Cruz turned into the infamous Andy Pratt.

 

Tell me how that's not a good thing? Indulge me rather than insult me.

 

Thanks in advance.

I am not insulting you. That is my point, trading these prospects is a good idea. I would trade any of them because we do not have any can't miss prospects, none. Yes, some may work out nicely, but none should be untouchable. It was a joke before the Rule V draft with all the handwringing over Barandon sing for God sake, just like the pitcher a few years ago from MIT. IF I can get a player like Tejada for Murton, Cedeno, Pie- I sure would do it.